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The Brothers Karamazov
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Brothers Karamazov w/reading schedule
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Hi all, Just want you to know I have been reading your posts but have been lagging far far behind in the book...no good excuse I am just having a hard time getting into it and keeping it all straight...I might give it another go tonight!
I hope it works for you, some of the chapters you might do better just skimming!
Meg wrote: "That would be something to research!I am also reading a book called 1Q84 and there is a whole section where they talk about Dostoevsky"
I just bought that book, is it good so far?
Analysis of Book VII (cliff notes)Alyosha, of course, does not need miracles for himself. But he recognizes the need of others for them, and with no miracle and because the body is decaying, he knows that spiteful rumors will rise around Zossima's memory. He cannot endure the holiest of holy men being exposed to jeering and mockery. Such indignity and humiliation of premature decay are unnecessary.
Alyosha's questionings align him closely with his brother Ivan. Ivan also asked about God's justice, and, like his brother, Alyosha does not question God; he is concerned only about His justice. When the seminarian appears, Alyosha even echoes Ivan's arguments by saying, "I am not rebelling against my God; I simply don't accept His world." But Karamazovs are concerned with justice, not God Himself.
Alyosha, of course, realizes that Christ went through such jeering and mockery. But for a moment, he gives way to temptation, and in this way he becomes human and not semi-divine; he becomes believably mortal. He can later be more deeply admired for his courage in resisting temptation. Alyosha questions, and by his questions one realizes the value of doubting. A serene acceptance of all — with no questioning — is neither courageous nor admirable; it is merely shallow, immature. Alyosha, when he defies his vows, accepts the sausage and vodka, and goes to see Grushenka, has a temporary spiritual revolt but emerges a much stronger adherent of faith.
In terms of a larger perspective within the action of the novel, one should remember that Ivan leaves town on the day that Zossima dies. Ivan catches the train at about the same time that Alyosha arrives at Grushenka's. Also, it is later this evening that Fyodor's murder takes place, and it is also later this evening that Alyosha rediscovers his faith and rededicates himself to the principles advocated by Father
Meg wrote: "ha ha, that is great. I usually read 3 at a time myself."me too.. :)
I don't have a problem with the story of the book so far;but I'm finding almost all the characters as weirdos. :p
Mod
Meg, your anaylsis of Book VIII (book 8) is all about Aloysha. In my copy of the book, Book VII (book 7) was titled Alyosha, had 4 chapters, and was all about Aloysha, the onion, the death of the old monk, etc.
In my copy, Book 8 is titled Mitya, and is all about Dmitry, him chasing after the girl, wanting to commit suicide, and apparently a couple of murders.
Am I ahead of everyone else???
It is a typo Sheila, it is book VII
I am sorry hat I am a bit behind in reading and posting.Book VIII
Lays a very different plot and dilemma especially in the matter of $3000 rubles. Questions arise: pay it back? forget about it? steal it? get it from his father by demanding that the money is his? Who gets the woman?
I think, so far, this is the most exciting section.
Mod
I have been making myself read each assigned section each week, but this week I never got to the reading (first half of book 9) because I am trying to get caught up on a couple other reads I am doing for discussions. So now, knowing that you are also behind, I don't feel so bad. :o)
I actually enjoyed book 8. It was a nice change to the book, and I think the story is actually going to "go somewhere" now. The first half of this book was a bit of a slog, with chapters that seemed disjointed. Hopefully the second half will come together.
Yes book 8 is good and the plot thickens! We are about at the same place.
So in Book IX, why do you think Grushenka tries to take "Dmitry's sins" as her own? Why is she so guilty?
Mod
Is anyone (who hasn't finished the book) starting to have any thoughts about who you might thing killed the father? I think there is someting fake about Smerdyakov's long repeated seizures that night. I think he might have been faking them (didn't he predict he could have seizure like that in an earlier chapter?). But I don't know if he killed the father, or if he is just covering and aiding whomever killed the father. I'm leaning toward believing Dmitry's story right now about how he got the money, and that he had it sewn in a pouch that he was carrying, and maybe he only did hit Gregory on the head in the garden and had nothing to do with his father. But I don't know for sure.
I've read the book before, so I won't comment on who I think killed the father.I agree that Grushenka felt some guilt about how she separated the father and son, but I also think she reflected on the Polish officer and realized that the relationship wasn't as great as she remembered.
What makes this part of the book interesting is that Dmitry clears his conscience by admitting his guilt in betraying Katerina by taking her money. A lot like the story of the man who committed murder earlier in the book (that seemed irrelevant at the time), Dmitry appears to want to confess his wrongs and receive punishment in order to redeem himself. This might be why he seems okay with being taken away by the police for a crime that he says he didn't commit. Even though he professes innocence in the killing of his father, he also feels guilt for his other actions.
Book X"Some critics have complained that in a novel of such extreme complexity and length, Book X does not contribute to the novel's unity. The section has often been said to be superfluous and a flaw in construction. A reader, they say, is anxiously concerned about Dmitri at this point, not about Ilusha. But because of the heavy chapters of violence, passion, and murder, this section can be explained in terms of Dostoevsky's inserting a healthy bit of youthful fresh air. The reader is relieved from the strain of contemplating Dmitri's fate."
What is your opinion?
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Sheila , Supporting Chick
(last edited Feb 19, 2012 03:30PM)
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rated it 3 stars
Mod
Well some of the critics believe that he wrote this because everything was so intense he wanted the emotions/violence to calm a little. i don't buy that. I found it awkward.
Mod
Did you think that the story up to this point was overly intense with emotions/violence? I did hate the chapter with all the child abuse descriptions in it, but that was back in book 5, correct? For me, the parts after that were not that emotional or violent, and I would have preferred the story to have continued with details of the arrest and impending trial.
I didn't find it intensely violent, with the exception of the child abuse. However, I am wondering if it were considered that way 100 years ago, maybe books weren't usually written with all the violence that we are used to today?I want to know more about the trial and what is going to happen.
This book was a little distracting with the sudden change to the focus on the kids. It definitely seems out of place (at least right now).I didn't find the story intensely violent, either, but the standards may have changed since this was written. Not sure of the intended goal of this section, other than perhaps a foreshadowing of some type. It still doesn't make sense to me, though.
Analysis: Book XI (first 5 chapters)"One of the main ideas of The Brothers Karamazov is that suffering can bring salvation, and that people who purge their sins through suffering can attain self-knowledge and redemption. Grushenka goes through this process, with Alyosha’s aid, in the aftermath of her horrible illness. But Lise vulgarizes this notion: her slamming the door on her finger is a pathetic attempt to invoke this principle, but because her attempt to suffer is full of such obvious vanity and self-pity, it is only a mockery of the lofty idea it seeks to copy."
What do you think of this?
Mod
I tried to read this about 5 years ago. I had already read Crime and Punishment and decided I did not like to read Dostoevsky. But I already owned The Brothers Karamazov so I gave it a try. I didn't like it.
Mod
"One of the main ideas of The Brothers Karamazov is that suffering can bring salvation, and that people who purge their sins through suffering can attain self..."
I think this is another area where I am really not good at analyzing books. LOL
For me, the first 5 chapters of book 11 were more filler. I really want to just find out who killed the father, but the author is still taking us down all these side paths with stories that I am not sure how they play into the main story. Lise slamming her finger in the door was pathetic, but why did we need to know she did it?
I think it all goes to that theme of suffering. It is a cross between existentialism and religion, I think
I think we need to know that Lise slammed her finger in the door to see how shallow she is - and also to show a contrast between true suffering and suffering for the sake of vanity.
Amy I agree with you. I think she sees that she needs to suffer and doesn't really get what true, religious suffering is all about.
Whoo hoo! I just finished the book today!!! This was a long read. How many of us are left now that we're almost done?
Mod
Sheila wrote: "I'm still reading, but should have it done in a couple days. I'm up to chapter 10 of Book XII, then just have the Epilogue. (about 60+ pages left). So I'm in the home stretch! :o)"Go, Sheila! I feel sort of like I completed a marathon...
I am done and waiting for you to finish so we can do a total discussion.What I would like to talk about first is the character development. So Sheila let me know when you are done.
Mod
Sheila wrote: "Done! Since you had both finished, I spent this evening finishing it too. :o)"Hurray!!!
Yay! we made it to the finish line!OK, so one of the things that I was looking for in reading this book was the character development. I was disappointed in the fact that I didn't get to the point of intense dislike for the father. I think that one of the most successful books, and an all time favorite of mine, is Conroy's The Great Santini. I hated that father and wanted all evil to happen to him. I didn't feel that way with this book. What are your thoughts?
Mod
Maybe it's part of Dostoevsky's genius that the father becomes a non-issue as our hearts go out to his sons.Shelley
Rain, A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com
I think that the father is an issue in that some of his behavior is imitated in the sons and one of the themes in the book is suffering and redemption. The father died because of the poor choices he made in his life. However, Mitya decides that the path of suffering is better than continuing on the same road as his father. In the end, he also got the girl... so in a way it worked out for him :)
I guess I just want to hate the father so I could feel that he got what he deserved and/or that the ends would justify the means
Mod
I always feel a sense of accomplishment when I finish one of these chunky reads, and I know I never would have read and finished this (and many of the previous chunkies) had it not been for this discussion.
So THANK YOU for another wonderful Chunky Read discussion! :o)
Thank you Sheila you are very kind. We did accomplish a big one............
I don't think I would have read this a second time if it weren't for this group. It was a lot more fun having people to discuss it with and I also liked the fact that we paced the read so I had a chance to think about different sections before moving on.Meg - Thanks for keeping us on schedule and leading this read. I really enjoyed it!
Thank you Amy, I am really glad that the group worked for you. I hope you will join in on the next chunky!
I have been so busy, I start the chunky read and then I just stop...I am going to attempt the next one.
I am glad you are going to join us!
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Brothers Karamazov (other topics)Crime and Punishment (other topics)
The Idiot (other topics)
The Idiot (other topics)
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I am also reading a book called 1Q84 and there is a whole section where they talk about Dostoevsky"
I've been looking at that book. How do you like it so far?