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The Brothers Karamazov
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Brothers Karamazov w/reading schedule
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The first reading is Book I which is a short 5 chapters, which we will start discussing next week. Can't wait to begin!
All right. I'm about to start reading while Zach is playing a video game! Hopefully I can keep up. With the amount of work I have to do between now and the end of the semester, I may have to catch up over Christmas break.
Mod
Dostoevsky was born of lower-middle-class parents in 1821, the second of seven children, and lived until 1881. His father, an army doctor attached to the staff of a public hospital, w..."
Hmm, this guy didn't have the greatest life. I wonder how all of this will play into the book?
Me too Meg. This is off to wonder start for me.
Good to hear that, Meg! More than with any other classic book I've read, with Karamazov I'm aware that I'm reading a translation. You can kind of feel the ghost of the Russian language flowing through the "translated" words. It would be great if somebody here could speak Russian. But that's not me!
Shelley
Rain: A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com
Dostoevsky had an awful life, and as you read this book you will get some of his darkest personal moments.
I'm going to try to jump in here too! I've been trying to keep up with reading posts and all but it has been a rough year so I haven't posted anything in months. Things seem to be getting back to normal a bit so I'm going to do the best I can to keep up. Just finished book 1 and am a bit surprised by the readability so far. I have always struggled a bit with classics but seem to be following this so far and am enjoying it very much. I found myself thinking about it at work and looking forward to when I could jump back in...always the sign of a good book!
That is terrific Stacy!
I am going to trudge along, reading when I can, but will have to catch up at the end of the semester.
The last of background information:Wikipedia
Existentialism:
Existentialism is a term applied to a school of 19th- and 20th-century philosophers who, despite profound doctrinal differences,shared the belief that philosophical thinking begins with the human subject—not merely the thinking subject, but the acting, feeling, living human individual. In existentialism, the individual's starting point is characterized by what has been called "the existential attitude", or a sense of disorientation and confusion in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world. Many existentialists have also regarded traditional systematic or academic philosophies, in both style and content, as too abstract and remote from concrete human experience
The early 19th century philosopher Søren Kierkegaard is widely regarded as the father of existentialism. He maintained that the individual is solely responsible for giving his or her own life meaning and for living that life passionately and sincerely,in spite of many existential obstacles and distractions including despair, angst, absurdity, alienation, and boredom.
Subsequent existentialist philosophers retain the emphasis on the individual, but differ, in varying degrees, on how one achieves and what constitutes a fulfilling life, what obstacles must be overcome, and what external and internal factors are involved, including the potential consequences of the existence or non-existence of God. Existentialism became fashionable in the post-World War years as a way to reassert the importance of human individuality and freedom.
Dostoyevsky and Kafka
Two of the first literary authors important to existentialism were the Czech Franz Kafka and the Russian Fyodor Dostoyevsky.[36] Dostoyevsky's Notes from Underground portrays a man unable to fit into society and unhappy with the identities he creates for himself. Jean-Paul Sartre, in his book on existentialism Existentialism is a Humanism, quoted Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov as an example of existential crisis. Sartre attributes Ivan Karamazov's claim, "If God did not exist, all things would be permitted,"to Dostoyevsky himself. Others of Dostoyevsky's novels covered issues raised in existentialist philosophy while presenting story lines divergent from secular existentialism: for example, in Crime and Punishment the protagonist Raskolnikov experiences an existential crisis and then moves toward a Christian Orthodox worldview similar to that advocated by Dostoyevsky himself.
Thanks Meg. Ever since 11th Grade English I have found existentialism to be rather baffling and confusing. This helps...at least a little! Not sure if I will ever 100% "get it" :)
we will all explore this together!
Mod
:)I've read only till the second book;but found this book to be written in a very easy to read manner/language, Sheila..
I really enjoyed meeting our characters. The poor wife, a shrieker. I fear for the children that came from this union. I will be intresting to watch both sets unfold. So far I really enjoyed The Elders chapter. We learn alot about them and their history and function.
Part II
This quote intrested me "And above all else do not be ashamed of yourself, for that is the cause of everything. Wondering why Alyosha is ashamed?
This sounds like a good book to discuss, with lots of head-scratching? I didn't know it was getting into existentialism. Woo! Nice posting explaining that, Meg, I never understood it either.
Thank you Laura. I remember back in school reading this book as part of my existential groupings.And Rebecca.......some foreshadowing in your post
Mod
So for those who understand what existentialism means, is this pretty close?
***
Existentialism believes the human only has a temporary existence, and views that life has no inherent meaning; any meaning had to be constructed.
In other words,
All existence ends in death
Therefore, what is the point?
And The human challenge:
Descend into nothingness
or have the ‘courage to be’?
Also you start almost as nothing and you make your life what it is and how you overcome your obstacles is your choice only. You and you alone give meaning to your own life. If I remember correctly, God is nonexistant, but they don't go about proving His nonexistance, it is just accepted.
I found these question in a other discussion and thought they were worth looking at.Book I
1) Who are the characters in this family and what do they represent? Are they symbols in a sweeping Russian allegory, for example? (I think there is an interesting case to be made here.)
2) On the very first page of Chapter One, Dostoevsky talks about role-playing. This idea will recur throughout the novel. Why is it important?
3) Note that Dostoevsky includes Father Zosima as a member of this nice little family. Why?
Book II
1) Pay attention to passages about shame and love. These will resonate throughout the book. Do these interest you?
2) Consider the discussions of crime. Most important is Ivan's declaration that if there is no immortality, then everything is permissible. But there are other, very complicated discussions of the nature of guilt and crime. Note them, too.
Sorry I'm a little late, but I am going to jump in and hopefully be all caught up by this weekend! hope to join in the discussion soon. :-)
that is great, glad to have you join us.
I just finished book one and it was certainly interesting to meet the characters! You've gotta love the crazy Russian names when everyone is named after each other, with nick-names to boot :-). Thankfully this is not my first go around with Russian literature. I really liked the description of the father! Gross! What a snarky fellow! And his poor wives! I laughed out loud at the sentance that actually used the word orgie. Seriously?! The guy was having orgies while his young wife was there! And yet she had two sons by him!?! Yuck.
At times it seemed a little slow, but I figure that's because it was mainly introductions and background history. I'm really looking forward to getting to the meat of the story!!
I'm done with Book two and I don't know what to think yet. In some places, I barely noticed the time passing but then in other places, I was thinking is this going somewhere? Boy, the father is a nasty character - going after the same woman as his son. Having difficulty keeping track of how one person can be referred by more than one name.
Book II is largely devoted to a study of Zossima and his teachings. This saintly ascetic influences all of Alyosha's actions, and to thoroughly understand this youngest member of the Karamazov clan, one must understand the man to whom he zealously attaches himself.Zossima seems to have come to terms with life; he lives with perfect contentment and understanding — basically, a quiet and reserved man. He is not, for instance, visibly disturbed by Fyodor Karamazov's buffoonery; his quiet mien allows him to see deeply into the personality of Karamazov — of any person with whom he speaks. With Karamazov, he knows that the old man is intentionally trying to overact, to clown, and, later, with Madame Hohlakov, he knows that she makes her confession in order to gain his personal approbation for her frankness. A large part of Father Zossima's greatness, therefore, is this perceptive understanding of mankind, his comprehension of the psychological factors and motivations that prompt human actions; his advice is therefore unusually sound.
Do you agree with this statement? Is this helpful or would you have rather seen less of Zossima's interactions?
Mod
I think this book gave us a good look at the elder Karamazov and how rotten he can act. And I enjoyed the character of Father Zossima. But since the book ends with Karamazov ordering Alyosha to come home, and Father Zossima tells Alyosha that he has to leave the monastery and rejoin the world, I figured this might be the end of Zossima for this book (since he appears to be very old and sick).
Mod
1) Pay attention to passages about shame and love. These will resonate throughout the book. Do these interest you?
2) Consider the discussions of crime. Most important is Ivan's declaration that if there is no immortality, then everything is permissible. But there are other, very complicated discussions of the nature of guilt and crime. Note them, too. "
1. With all the characters we have been introduced to so far (end of book 2) I would imagine that both love and shame are going to play big parts throughout this whole story!
2. The talk about crime is also interesting. I really have a feeling that this is leading up to something, that there is going to be crime involved in the story soon.
So, this is going to be a book about love, shame and crime.
Okay, so I'll call DUH!, but I just read the Goodreads description for my copy of this book (since truthfully I am reading this with no idea what the book is supposed to be about):
***
In 1880 Dostoevsky completed The Brothers Karamazov, the literary effort for which he had been preparing all his life. Compelling, profound, complex, it is the story of a patricide and of the four sons who each had a motive for murder: Dmitry, the sensualist, Ivan, the intellectual; Alyosha, the mystic; and twisted, cunning Smerdyakov, the bastard child. Frequently lurid, nightmarish, always brilliant, the novel plunges the reader into a sordid love triangle, a pathological obsession, and a gripping courtroom drama.
***
So, since it says all 4 sons have a "motive for murder" is this thing leading up to the father getting murdered, and we have to figure out which of his sons kills him? Shame, love, and crime??
Meera wrote: "I'm done with Book two and I don't know what to think yet. In some places, I barely noticed the time passing but then in other places, I was thinking is this going somewhere? Boy, the father is a n..."I rarely watch soap opera's since I work all day, but in the summer I watch Bold and the Beautiful with my Mom and this reminded me of a character named Brook that a whole family of men have married...father and sons. Totally off topic, but it was kind of funny to me...continue ladies.
Next post will be more on topic :)
Sandra wrote: "Next post will be more on topic :) "I don't think you're off the topic :-) I've started on the next section and in a way I think this is starting to read like a soap opera, albeit a well written one. I'm enjoying it!
mmmmmmmmm My Four Sons? As the World Turns?
Mod
The Bold and The Beautiful...lol.
One Life to Live.......
I have a study guide for this book, but I don't know how to attach the file here...would anyone like it e-mailed to them...let me know.
sure maybe we can incorporate it into our discussions, thank you
Hmmm. Well, if some experts think the book is into existentialism, I wouldn't argue, but I would say that to me the good-hearted youngest brother Alyosha seems more like a sweet Buddhist!Shelley
Rain: A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.com
I just finished part 2 as well, but I felt like it moved a little slower than the first part. I think I got a little bogged down in the theological discussion....and in trying to keep track of all the nick-names.I agree that the father is rotten, he seems like a drunken and manipulative embarrassment to his sons. I felt bad for Alyosha when everything was going down in the cell. I am interested in learning more about this crazy love triangle between Dimitry and the two women, Ivan, and the father (though, maybe that is more like a love-pentagon ??).
I also went into the book not knowing what it would be about, I just yanked off the dust jacket and jumped in. I am not surprised at all that a patricide is involved, I've only "known" the guy for 80 pgs and I'm ready to shove him out of a carriage! Ha!
Sign of a good author when you develop strong feelings (good or bad) for a character. I agree that it gets difficult keeping track of the characters, which is why I always keep a list of them just in case. I posted some at the beginning of the thread if that helps.
The theological part does get difficult to read through where I think that Dostoevsky could have shortened that part and still developed his characters as well.
So, in this reading, I thought about this quote:"he had a number of books but no one ever saw him reading"
How many people do you know that you can say this about?
I think about how many books I have. Although you do see me reading, the amount of books.........well you could call me a hoarder! what about you?
So, in this reading, I thought about this quote:"he had a number of books but no one ever saw him reading"
How many people do you know that you can say this about?
I think about how many books I have. Although you do see me reading, the amount of books.........well you could call me a hoarder! what about you?
Mod
That is one thing nice about my kindle, I can have 300+ books loaded on it (as I currently do) and my husband can't tell. But that doesn't mean the entire upstairs hallway lined with bookshelf isn't still loaded to the gills. But I do read every day, so....
I am a bit behind...I too am finding book 2 a bit slower and am having a harder time following it...though that could be because I was taking notes in book 1! As for hoarding books I don't so much. I am very good at getting rid of the ones I know I will never read again and keeping only the really special ones. I donate them, pass them to friends with a please pass on to others disclaimer, etc. I must say the kindle has really cut down on the current reading pile which is great!
I think my demise is paperbackswap. I keep finishing a book and trading it for a new one. I have finally come to accept that fact that all the books I have cannot be read in my lifetime. I guess that is the definition of a book hoarder!
Sandra has emailed me a study guide for this book, so I will be adding tidbits and other questions and insights from this as well. Thank you Sandra.Did You Know?
In December 1849, not long after his arrest for illegal political activity, Dostoevsky and his fellow activists
were led to a public square to be executed by a firing squad. Dostoevsky received the last rites of the
church and, with the other prisoners, was forced to stand against a wall. Suddenly, a messenger rode up
and announced that the tsar had commuted their death sentences, but not before Dostoevsky had spent
several minutes believing he was about to die. So great was the strain of these events that one of the
writer’s fellow prisoners went permanently insane. Later, it was revealed that the tsar had never actually
intended that the execution take place. The last-minute reprieve was part of the tsar’s cruel punishment
for a “conspiracy of ideas.”
Mod
Meg did the above occur before he started writing Brothers Karamazov?
Chicks On Lit
Books mentioned in this topic
The Brothers Karamazov (other topics)Crime and Punishment (other topics)
The Idiot (other topics)
The Idiot (other topics)
Crime and Punishment (other topics)
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this book is somewhat autobiographical and considered his best work.
Anyone have any comments so far?