Enclave
discussion
Fade or Stalker?
Christina wrote: "Fade of course! Does anyone else wish the author hadn't gone so far as to make Stalker a rapist in Enclave? Can't really redeem him from something like that. I would have felt less guilty about lik..."I totally agree with you. I felt the exact same way.
Ashlie wrote: "FADE! I am angry at all of them for being so dumb about relationships though. I hate love triangles, cuz it always seems like the guy who deserves to get the girl (in my opinion) never gets her! It..."Read the sequel. All is revealed. I actually sort of like it, 'cause it shows an awkward-with-relationships-what-do-I-do-what-is-this sort of realism
Kagama-the Literaturevixen wrote: "Hunyum wrote: "Kagama wrote: "Hunyum wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Stalker let his men(or even him) rape women for breeding purpose, I would not be a Stalker'fan. He's changed a bit but only for his own be..."Practical scum, but yeah. I get your point.
Marinko wrote: "to be honest I hate the whole romance part of the book."It's better in the sequel.
Deuce needs to stand on her own...no time for love with the freaks all over the place.
Jacklyn wrote: "Hud-e, it's true how Aguirre could give her characters redemption, but we don't know if Stalker is telling the truth about never raping anyone. He could be lying about that..... Would you trust the word of a man who wanted to hunt and eat Fade? Or who “took” girls in the past and planned to use this right with Deuce, but now claims he was an innocent bystander just trying to keep the peace with all the other guys who did want to rape. How come he was the only one in the gang who didn’t rape, yet he was the leader?"I have read Outpost. Yes, I do understood what you're pointing out. I am actually for Fade and Deuce. However, when it comes to Stalker, I do have my own opinion. Exactly, he could be lying. We don't really know. He's in a gang which strongly believe in the tenet of survival of the fittest. He could have rape anyone even if he don't actually admit it.
But can't we say that some people can change? If you have read Outpost then you would understand. I am trying to believe in the belief that Aguirre have something store for Fade, Deuce, Tegan and Stalker. The sequel of the first - is more than plot-building but in a way it focus on character development.
I don't mind your version of possible events to come true - Stalker raping Deuce (attempt). But I would like them to develop a friendship setting aside Stalker's feelings for her. With the circumstances brought about by Outpost's ending, I think it would be more important for Stalker his survival and the rest of the team as well.
well IMHO everyone is wron in every aspect xD JK but Fade should be with her.
no question, team fadeI kinda hope some other random guy shows up and she'll choose him...
only because that never happens in any other books
The level of comfort in 90% of answers to this question is disturbing. Pick a rape enabler (Fade) or an actual RAPIST (Stalker). Then again, our heroine is a rape appologist so wash.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Jovana J wrote: "The level of comfort in 90% of answers to this question is disturbing. Pick a rape enabler (Fade) or an actual RAPIST (Stalker). Then again, our heroine is a rape appologist so wash. Carry on."
How did Fade enable any rape?
Jacklyn wrote: "I don’t think Aguirre thinks Stalker needs to be redeemed. Deuce hangs out with him. She trusts him. In book one, when Deuce thought Stalker WAS a rapist and he kissed her, she had no issues with that (though she had some real issues with Tegan letting herself get raped)...."I don't know what Aguirre thinks or plans to do with Stalker. All I say and I can assume for myself is she's developing his character and the rest of them. Aguirre might destroy Stalker in the end, we don't really know. Yes, and I agree with what you think about Deuce about Tegan and Stalker. It's Deuce upbringing. And that was actually the reason for the conflict in book 2. And about the Stalker-Deauce tandem, I'm not for it. If there's a thing I could wish for in this series is that we quit the love triangle affair! And focus more on the mystery of what brought out the Freaks.
Jacklyn wrote: "Also if Stalker didn’t rape anyone then isn’t Tegan a liar? Was that ever addressed in Outpost? "
Of course Tegan is not a liar. In Outpost, if I remember correctly, Stalker admit doing wrong things. (And I think rape is one of those he'd done before although it was not explicitly said by Stalker himself).
Jacklyn wrote: "Hud-c wrote: "Jacklyn wrote: "I don’t think Aguirre thinks Stalker needs to be redeemed. Deuce hangs out with him. She trusts him. In book one, when Deuce thought Stalker WAS a rapist and he kissed..."
Or or or we simply DO NOT romanticize a rapist. Rapist love interest is BEYOND any redemption.
Or or or we simply DO NOT romanticize a rapist. Rapist love interest is BEYOND any redemption.
Jacklyn wrote: "But readers have inferred that Stalker did not rape anyone. "I see. I haven't really read most of the reviews yet for Outpost though I wrote mine like 3 weeks ago. So I don't really know that some readers thought like that. I knew Stalker allowed horrible acts in his gang before. Hey they even hunt people for fun. That was clearly implied in the first book. But I don't really see a Stalker and Deuce pairing. They're too much alike. And definitely a significant number of people will agree on that.
Jacklyn wrote: "I doubt Aguirre will end her love triangle that way (though a lot of people are pushing for Stalker and Tegan to be a couple now too). "
I probably acted like one of them although upon reading Outpost, I don't think its viable. Aguirre won't shift and change things that way. And I don't really understand why people are inferring that Stalker didn't rape anyone. People should see that he was the leader - being a leader you lead by example. I don't think his gang members wouldn't be that vicious and horrible if he didn't practice what they do or act barbaric like them. About Stalker, you probably hate him so much; well as for me, I hate what he did. He should repent for that. That's the reason why I like the character development in Outpost. Aguirre is letting her characters grow. She let Stalker admit his wrongdoings though for me he needs to do more. And when I mean more, I'll like to read something (in the next book) that he will do for Deuce, for Tegan, for Fade and for the whole Salvation.
Jacklyn wrote: "If a writer wants to redeem someone, she should probably act like he did something wrong first.
She's doing/working on it. Let's see what will happen in the next sequel. Will you still follow the series? You know, Aguirre might change your opinion. I suggest you'll give her a chance.
Well, we all have our own perspectives. I couldn't disagree with you completely because in a certain point, I see and understand what you're pointing out. But just one thing, although, you claim Aguirre wrote something that somehow or someway showcases a victim being blamed for what had happened to her, I don't believe that her writing reflects Aguirre's own thinking on such matters/issues. Approaching the subject matter differently, I think its great that Aguirre wrote something like this. It illustrates real life events. As you discuss yourself, some other women have negative opinions about a rape victim. My mom does oftentimes and she always shun my efforts to explain about the statistics on rape. Anyway, IMHO, Aguirre is trying to use Deuce and her characters to lay out the current society's flaws. I find chauvinism and religious fanaticism in Outpost very distasteful.
FADE ALL THE WAY. they were partners from the start, and should stay partners. the second boook was soo sad at the end, i just really want them together. i love fade, and i love how much he cares about duece. in the second one, he gave her space-because he thought she needed it. hes just so cute! and i LOVED him in Outpost! TEAM FADE
Hunyum wrote: "Ashlyn wrote: "Who ever votes for Stalker ( okay really, that name just tells u to stay away) is a stalker themselves.TEAM FADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)"
O-U-C-H!!"
true that!
*some spoilers for those who haven't read Outpost* I like Stalker. Yes, of course the rapist past was horrific. But in Outpost, he really grew. He admitted his wrong-doings, and even apologized to Tegan. It doesn't change everything immediately, or smooth things over. She could've said no. But they both decided to put it past them, and focus on the future. Sometimes, forgiving someone brings inner peace and growth. I think that's what happened to Tegan. Anyway, sometimes, people change. There are murderers, Neo Nazis, rapists, etc, in the real world who have changed. It's not beyond redemption. Stalker did permit the raping, but what would've happen if he had objected? He might've been killed if he had even thought it was wrong. And in a post-apocolyptic world, survival is everything. It often overpowers moral values. Also, people who grow up in certain environments learn things like that, and to them it's okay because they didn't know any better. Like racism. Not everybody who grew up as a child knew it was wrong to hate another race. Most likely they lived in an environment that branded it in their minds that it was okay. Once they get out of that evironment, some people change, and it is their personal decision to do so. Stalker chose to change. That doesn't erase what he did, but forgiveness is capable, and it shows humanity in a world that desperately needs it. Deuce killed the blind brat, because at the time, that was all she knew what was right. She knew something was wrong, because he was crying and scared, much like how Stalker probably knew it was wrong when girls cried and screamed during the rape. Later on, she deeply regrets her action, and it comes back to haunt her. She's a murderer, right? But she found out that that wasn't right, and she changed. She no longer believed in what the Enclave force-fed her. I like Stalker, because he's complex, and he shows immense character growth. He's WILLING to learn and change, as he's proved in the book. He's interesting. Plus, I believe everybody deserves a second chance. And that is why I personally like Stalker. Hate me all you want. I respect your opinions about Fade, so please respect my opinion of Stalker.
don't worry i get ya, stalker almost grew on me too. i kinda felt bad that duece just stopped training with him, after she decided to be with fade.
Vee wrote: "don't worry i get ya, stalker almost grew on me too. i kinda felt bad that duece just stopped training with him, after she decided to be with fade."Haha, thanks! Yeah, I know, I felt bad too. The poor guy.
Tyler wrote: "*some spoilers for those who haven't read Outpost* I like Stalker. Yes, of course the rapist past was horrific. But in Outpost, he really grew. He admitted his wrong-doings, and even apologized to ..."Way to go, Tyler. That's what I wanted to explain to the others as well. You completely put into words what I'm thinking about Stalker.
Hud-c wrote: "Tyler wrote: "*some spoilers for those who haven't read Outpost* I like Stalker. Yes, of course the rapist past was horrific. But in Outpost, he really grew. He admitted his wrong-doings, and even ..."I'm glad I was able to explain it! Thank you. :)
I'm kind of confused actually. Fade had always been protective of deuce but he never actually fought for her. He never said or did anything when he thought deuce and stalker were together. Instead, he avoided her and started hanging out with tegan and other people in salvation. This made deuce think that he had a thing for tegan. Stalker fought for her actually. He never gave up even when he knew deuce loved fade. But the dude's a rapist. Although they sort of ignored it when they were still in danger and deuce doesn't really mind, it's just plain disturbing. So I think I'm more on fade's side than stalker's side. I have this feeling that she'll end up with fade anyway.
I'm still for fade! I hate love triangles , because they always end up with the new guy... ughhhh
TEAM FADE! He is so amazing :)
Ashlyn wrote: "Who ever votes for Stalker ( okay really, that name just tells u to stay away) is a stalker themselves.TEAM FADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)"
HOLLA! FAde all the way. stalker just wants to get into her pants...why else would he have pulled into the wood alone and make out with her?! he's a creepo
I'm definitely Team Fade! Stalker is just a big no, no for me. I know for a fact that, no matter how hard he tries to redeem himself in Outpost, I'm not going to warm up to him one itty, little bit. I instantly disliked him as soon as he was introduced in Enclave so I'm for Fade all the way - I just LOVE him! xD... He also reminded me of Four out of Divergent too! :D
Rachel wrote: "I'm definitely Team Fade! Stalker is just a big no, no for me. I know for a fact that, no matter how hard he tries to redeem himself in Outpost, I'm not going to warm up to him one itty, little bit..."yes! thank you! you spoke my mind exactly! I LOVE FADE, STRAIGHT UP. stalker, no he just tries to hard.
I didn't really like this book but Fade is a better character. A love interest called Stalker should give you a subtle hint to get as far away from him as possible.
And I think Deuce's opinions about the rape victim were a bit harsh. It's not like she asked the wolf pack "Hey rape me, ok?"
Alexandria wrote: "Fade. No questions, no arguments. End of story. Not only is he a strong character that I love, he also doesn't have the name Stalker."he's also not a creep like stalker. like no offense, but deuce doesn't want you. just get over it already.
Well, Fade. What kind of name is Stalker????
FADE! duhhhh. stalker is dumb... and i know hes not a red head... but that name just reminds me of a ginger..............
FADE! Stalker was a creep in the beginning- survival or no. I thought of him as a pimp gangsta with nasty scars down his face wen we were first introduced >_O
Imani wrote: "FADE! Stalker was a creep in the beginning- survival or no. I thought of him as a pimp gangsta with nasty scars down his face wen we were first introduced >_O"lets mix your pimp gangsta with my ginger, and we'll call him stalker!
I really like Fade. He does remind me of Four from Divergent and I absolutely adored Four! I love how he cares about Deuce and that he respects her for who she is. But Stalker is not a bad guy, he had good intentions at heart for what he did. His life was very much like College, except he had the responsibility to oversee it all happen whether he liked it or not. Deuce is unpredictable in my opinion when it comes to relationships. She's obviously like Katniss, she wants to protect her friends and community no matter how they treated her and I'm sad that she sees that a weakness. Maybe it'll turn out like the Hunger Games. Stalker is aggressive like Gale, but Katniss still chose him over Peeta, who was sweet like Fade (though Fade can be deadly too...)
It's really dumb. Bringing Stalker into this book was a low point for Ann. I actually have a theory, and it goes like this: Ann is sitting in her home creating genius work when suddenly-- "I must bring in somebody to rival Fade for Deuce's hand because that's what all the other really crappy authors are doing so I must trash my (already awesome) book because of peer pressure. Yessss... I'll make millions!", she said maliciously. Bring Stalker that late into the book was a total mistake. She should have known. I would have liked him better if he were to have already been established earlier in the book!
Daisy97 wrote: "It's really dumb. Bringing Stalker into this book was a low point for Ann. I actually have a theory, and it goes like this: Ann is sitting in her home creating genius work when suddenly-- "I must..."wow, i never thought of it that way! but i totally agree, she did bring him in wayyyy to late.. we never really got a chance to know him... although even if we did, i my ffavor would still hold fade (:
Daisy97 wrote: "It's really dumb. Bringing Stalker into this book was a low point for Ann. I actually have a theory, and it goes like this: Ann is sitting in her home creating genius work when suddenly-- "I must..."The whole love triangle is getting old. Next we'll have love squares, then love pentagons. yipi
Bre wrote: "Daisy97 wrote: "It's really dumb. Bringing Stalker into this book was a low point for Ann. I actually have a theory, and it goes like this: Ann is sitting in her home creating genius work when su..."I read about a love square! it was seriously the worst book i EVER READ! and agreed, it is getting old...
Read Outpost and you will defiantly pick Stalker. Fade liked Deuce and when he saw her hanging out with Stalker, he got jealous and totally I like Fade and Staker equally but Stalker would be a better choice for Deuce.
Chloe wrote: "Read Outpost and you will defiantly pick Stalker. Fade liked Deuce and when he saw her hanging out with Stalker, he got jealous and totally ignored avoided her. She and Stalker weren't even datin..."Yeah, I like Stalker too. Haha, I know most people don't like him, but I do. To each their own, I suppose.
Vee wrote: "Bre wrote: "Daisy97 wrote: "It's really dumb. Bringing Stalker into this book was a low point for Ann. I actually have a theory, and it goes like this: Ann is sitting in her home creating genius ..."oh sooner then i thought, next with be love pentagons
FADE all the way!!! He belongs with Deuce after they've been through so much together.Hoe can Deuce even consider Stalker after knowing what he was like in the ruins. yuck!! I sure hope she ends up with Fade. ^_^
Chloe wrote: "Read Outpost and you will defiantly pick Stalker. Fade liked Deuce and when he saw her hanging out with Stalker, he got jealous and totally ignored avoided her. She and Stalker weren't even datin..."They didn't date. Its more of a practice sessions and trying to get involve with the guarding of the village.
And I agree with you on Fade. My liking for him in this book lessened. I just can't understand his actions. If he really wants Deuce, then go after her, you know. Why distant yourself. And when he got lost and been rescued, IDK, but I don't fucking agree with his machismo.
FADE FADE FADE all the way. I just hope that's how the book ends. If it ends up with Fade and Stalker... I'm gonna be mad. FADE AND DEUCE!
Daisy97 wrote: "It's really dumb. Bringing Stalker into this book was a low point for Ann. I actually have a theory, and it goes like this: Ann is sitting in her home creating genius work when suddenly-- "I must..."I totally agree. I don't have anything against Stalker but no one can undergo a transformation that fast. You know that's not the only thing she did, other than bringing him in into a love triangle of sorts she also made Fade an emotional mess whereas in the first book he was a rather strong character.
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You've got a point... but I think Aguirre can possibly give redemption to some of her characters, can't she?