Occupy

[Sarah]

So...anybody following the protests? Going to one?

[~Geektastic~]

Following, but haven't considered going to any yet (I'm pretty close to DC). There are a lot of things that anger me and are worthy of protest, but the intent of the protests is a little fuzzy. I suppose it is mostly just to get voices heard and show people that we are not willing to sit back and be trodden underfoot but Wall Street and Big Business, but I'm not sure what they hope to actually accomplish.

[Sarah]

"We feel that it is morally reprehensible for 1% of the country top hold so much wealth, creating the largest discrepancy between the haves and the have-nots the world has ever seen.

Further, we are appalled by today's rampant use of money to sway legislation and we decry the corrupt "revolving door" which puts former politicians in the armies of business lobbyists and vice versa."

Those are good things to draw attention to, but I don't know what they can accomplish beyond drawing attention. The media coverage has been fascinating.
http://sugarfreak.typepad.com/mobtown...

[Phil]

I would go, but I'm certain, even without looking, that none of these are within 150 miles of my home.

[Scout]

I'm with the agenda, but I'm pretty sure these protests won't change anything.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

This is a really excellent column by Ezra Klein on it. Not that long, and worth reading.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/e...

[Scout]

Don't usually click on links because my old laptop isn't reliable. Clicked on this one though because of your recommendation, Lg, and read about students spending on education that turned out to be worthless. It was getting really interesting when the big freeze made me end all programs. Would you summarize, please?

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Ezra Klein is describing a Tumblr feed called "We Are the 99 Percent" (Wall Street being the other 1 percent). On the Tumblr, people are holding up signs on which they have written what their personal financial circumstances are. Many of them are recent college graduates, or grad school graduates, who are out of work, or working very low paying jobs, and can't afford the huge debt they accumulated. Ezra lists a bunch of these comments, which have a powerful effect in their similarity and in the fact that these are people who are not anarchists, they were trying to live by the rules. The rules being go to college, go to grad school, make the best of yourself. It will be an investment that pays off. The investment is not paying off for them and they're wondering if it ever will.

But it also speaks, I think, to the fact that college debt represents a special sort of betrayal. We told you that the way to get ahead in America was to get educated. You did it. And now you find yourself in the same place, but buried under debt. You were lied to. writes Klein.

But then, these protests really aren’t about Wall Street, either. There’s not a lot of evidence that these people want a class war, or even particularly punitive measures on the rich. The only thing that’s clear from their missives is that they want the economy to start working for them, too.

it’s a bad economy, and everybody is suffering. At least, that’s what they say. ....But you look around and the reality is not everyone is suffering. Wall Street caused this mess, and the government paid off their debts and helped them rake in record profits in recent years. The top 1 percent account for 24 percent of the nation’s income and 40 percent of its wealth. There are a lot of people who don’t seem to be doing everything they’re supposed to do, and it seems to be working out just fine for them.

The organizers of Occupy Wall Street are fighting to upend the system. But what gives their movement the potential for power and potency is the masses who just want the system to work the way they were promised it would work. It’s not that 99 percent of Americans are really struggling. It’s not that 99 percent of Americans want a revolution. It’s that 99 percent of Americans sense that the fundamental bargain of our economy -- work hard, play by the rules, get ahead -- has been broken, and they want to see it restored.

[Scout]

It’s that 99 percent of Americans sense that the fundamental bargain of our economy -- work hard, play by the rules, get ahead -- has been broken, and they want to see it restored.

I can empathize. I worked hard and played by the rules and made sound financial decisions, and I feel that I'm paying for the mistakes made by people who took an easier route. This article makes me realize that there's another group of hard-working people who did the right things and got the shaft.

[~Geektastic~]

But it also speaks, I think, to the fact that college debt represents a special sort of betrayal. We told you that the way to get ahead in America was to get educated. You did it. And now you find yourself in the same place, but buried under debt. You were lied to. writes Klein.

Exactly.

On a different note, I've noticed that a lot of people have started to join the protests in costume. I don't think this is helping; it's starting to look like a circus out there.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

I wish the protesters would speak in a more unified voice about what their aims are. I know, impossible. But I heard a guy on the radio today being asked what their goals were and he was branching off into so many tangential areas, like E. coli in meat, and safety of the water supply....we already have government agencies that do that stuff. Maybe they don't do it well enough, but it's not like those issues have not been on the radar for years.

Keep it focused on Wall Street and inequality. Income inequality, wealth inequality, the sinking middle class, diminishing opportunities for those not in the top tiers of society. Keep the focus economic. These are the issues that have gone undiscussed for so long because so many people start screaming "Class warfare! Stop it!" if they are ever brought up.

[Phil]

I believe it's about the 99%.

I'm looking for a t-shirt that has "I am the 99 percent" on the back.

[~Geektastic~]

Rep. Peter "Angry Bulldog Face" King calls them anarchists. I don't think it is typical practice for anarchists to spend their time demanding that the government fix anything. The arguments coming from politicians against the protests are getting dumber and dumber.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Eric Cantor is now concerned about the "mobs."

Jon Stewart had a nice takedown of the right wing criticism of them, comparing it word for word with what they had said about the tea party protests.

[Phil]

Yes. The "mobs" that have set up a cafeteria, a sleeping area, a quasi-government and many other "civilized" notions.

Eric Cantor is an unbelievable asshole.

[~Geektastic~]

http://skreened.com/politicz/i-am-the...

An early version of the t-shirt for sale online.

There's irony here. The Occupy movement is protesting the economic problems infecting our country, and some ass hat company is selling t-shirts for THIRTY TWO DOLLARS A POP. Typical.

Here's what you do: buy a Hanes white t-shirt and a can of spray paint. Screw you American Apparel.

[Félix]

Yay American Apparel.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Boo American Apparel. The CEO is a noted sexual harrasser and pervert who pressures young employees to send him nude photos and have sex with him. There is also discrimination in the stores.

[~Geektastic~]

BunWat wrote: "No in fact there's a greater irony here. Its a microcosm of the whole issue as a matter of fact. Because that American Apparel shirt that you are mad at is produced by a US based company that doe..."

I don't mean "screw you American Apparel" as a company in general, just that it didn't take them long to create a product to make money from the protests. Plus, the shirts look dumb. If they truly are sweat-shop free and made here, that's great.

My biggest issue with American Apparel is their ad campaigns. Ick.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

I would never buy one of their products. Sorry, but paying more than slave wages doesn't make up for sexually harrassing environments and gross advertising.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

I have bought some underwear from Hanes, and probably one bra, but not in awhile.

[Jonathan]

A bizarre but funny item that came up as a link on Google News from The Inquisitor.com:

Starting in New York City’s financial district, the Occupy Wall Street movement has spread to just about every major city in the United States. From Chicago, to Los Angeles, to Houston, and now, sadly, to Sesame Street. Yes, the Muppets have decided to Occupy Sesame Street.

The perfectly photo-shopped images were created by the website Tauntr to help get kids interested in the movement.



Tauntr writes:

“Occupy Wall Street is a major movement both on the streets and on the web, but it isn’t getting the media attention it deserves. Why? Because it doesn’t resonate with kids… Which is why we here at Tauntr have envisioned the perfect revolution. Don’t Occupy Wall Street. Occupy Sesame Street.”

If you want to keep up with the Occupy Sesame Street movement you can follow the Twitter hashtag #OccupySesameStreet. Celebrities and angry citizens have taken to the social networking site to show their support for the muppets.

Comedian @pattonoswalt tweeted

“The counting vampires are destroying America!”

@michaelkbusch, wrote:

“Truly outrageous that 99% of the cookies are consumed by 1% of the monsters on PBS.”







More: http://www.inquisitr.com/148993/the-m...

[Félix]

Very cool.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Even Michelle Singletary, WaPo's personal finance columnist, is rooting on the protesters.

Are you fed up? If so, you can find local Occupy Wall Street events at www.occupytogether.org, which says it’s the unofficial hub for those who want to take action against corporate greed.

[Scout]

Is protesting against Wall Street really going to get results? Someone representing Wall Street is going to come out and say, "We were wrong. We'll make everything right"? Seems to me the whole thing has heart but is misdirected. Aim at the fucking bureaucrats and elected officials who took money from the fat cat corporations and let them get away with screwing the taxpayers - and are still letting them get away with it. I think the whole thing comes down to campaign contributions. We need drastic campaign reform.

[Phil]

Scout wrote: "Is protesting against Wall Street really going to get results?"

It could, for the reason you are about to state...

"Aim at the fucking bureaucrats and elected officials who took money from the fat cat corporations and let them get away with screwing the taxpayers - and are still letting them get away with it."

That's exactly the people who are beginning to pay attention. Get enough people out to show support and suddenly those elected officials start to show some interest. They do, after all, want to hold on to those cushy jobs with endless benefits.

[Sarah]

Scout wrote: "Aim at the fucking bureaucrats and elected officials who took money from the fat cat corporations and let them get away with screwing the taxpayers - and are still letting them get away with it. I think the whole thing comes down to campaign contributions. We need drastic campaign reform. "

I think the problem they are addressing is that there is no way within the system to truly address any of this, especially as corporations are now being treated as people. Campaign reform will help, but it isn't the entire answer.

[Sarah]

Excellent piece by Krugman:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opi...

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Sean Hannity, right now: "It's a pigpen down there! People are having sex in public! It stinks to high heaven!" He means literally, it stinks.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

Hannity. "One of the best things that ever happened to me was not having any money, not having a safety net.

Money does not make you happy. Realizing there's more to life than satisfying your own personal needs. It's better to give than to receive."

[Félix]

He's a pig.

[Sarah]

These charts are great: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-w...

[~Geektastic~]

Lobstergirl wrote: "Hannity. "One of the best things that ever happened to me was not having any money, not having a safety net.

Money does not make you happy. Realizing there's more to life than satisfying your own..."

Whenever someone says something like this, I always wonder what their idea of a safety net is. Or what "no money" actually means to them. I don't think he has any idea what it's like to question where your next meal will come from.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

No, I don't think so either. What he meant was that having very little money and no safety net make him work harder. That's great that it worked out so well for him, but it's not going to work out that way for everyone. Even if you have a fantastic work ethic and are willing to do whatever it takes, not everyone is entrepreneurial and not everyone will be successful. Some people are just going to be poor and remain poor, for lots of different reasons which we don't even need to go into. The safety net is for those people.

I think it would behoove the very wealthy to shut up about not needing the safety net, and 'tis better to give than to receive.

[Scout]

Campaign reform. I think it's important to take the fat cats and their agenda out of politics. How do we do that?

[Scout]

Point taken. So, Bun, how, precisely, do we keep the fat cats from having undue or unreasonable influence? What about leveling the playing field by giving presidential candidates equal and free air time and setting a limit on how much money they can spend on a campaign? How do we go about doing that? Right now, the guy who can spend the most money has a big advantage. That doesn't make him the best man for the job, but if he's elected, it does put him in debt to the men with the money.

[Sally, la reina]

How are corporations being treated like people? How was Wall Street's debts forgiven?
I too have a massive debt for undertaking a master's degree in the hopes of moving up in the world. Yet all I make goes right into rent, utilities, and $450/mo or more for health insurance for my family.

What is the occupy movement looking for beyond attention? Say attention has been gained, now what?
(going to read Pi's link now)

[Sally, la reina]

"The problem in a nutshell is this: Inequality in this country has hit a level that has been seen only once in the nation's history, and unemployment has reached a level that has been seen only once since the Great Depression. And, at the same time, corporate profits are at a record high."


When was that level of discrepancy?

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-w...

[Sally, la reina]

Here's a good explanation from a commenter on Occupy Wall Street's facebook page:
the movement has accomplished quite a lot from the small park: it has created a global awareness that people need to voice their grievances...that a change/shift is needed. You might not see it now, but you will.

I'd also like to add that votes don't do anything anymore. Don't you think that we have been voting since forever expecting change? The change will come when the US takes back its power to print its own money......when politicians aren't allowed to accept donations from corporations... when banks can't lend out money that doesn't exist... when corporations return to American to hire the American people..... when we start to consume our own products again, then there will be a change.... the list goes on and on.

For now, the point is to spread and raise the level of awareness. Trust me, if an American soldier is asked to kill its own people, IT WON'T HAPPEN.

Hopefully, we will move into an era where money doesn't stand between a child and a bottle of milk. Hopefully one day people will start to understand that money is their biggest enemy and that there are other ways to live.

[~Geektastic~]

Hopefully, we will move into an era where money doesn't stand between a child and a bottle of milk. Hopefully one day people will start to understand that money is their biggest enemy and that there are other ways to live.

Yes!

[Cynthia]

Lobstergirl wrote: "No, I don't think so either. What he meant was that having very little money and no safety net make him work harder. That's great that it worked out so well for him, but it's not going to work ou..."

Anyone who comes from money has a HUGE safety net. Family support goes a long way when it comes to school success, getting in to the right college, landing a great job, marrying the right partner. Connections, connections, connections. Anyone who says they got where they are today not from luck, but their own hard work, is full of shit.

[Sally, la reina]

That's not true. My father in law was one of eight children from Louisville, KY. His brothers and sisters mostly didn't go to college and still work 40+ hours a week to pay bills and survive. My FIL worked two jobs to put himself through graduate school and found an entry level job as a banker and has, over thirty years, worked up to VP of his own accord. He didn't inherit any of the wealth he's amassed, and he didn't just happen into it either. It was smarts, savings, and sweat.

I'm totally and completely liberal and align with the Occupy's cause, but because of Sweeter and his family I see the argument of the right as logical.

[Cynthia]

Sally, I do know that some people have been successful simply by hard work. I feel they are the exception, however. I have listened to plenty of rich physicians completely discount the benefits of family money/connections and give all the credit to themselves for their success. My husband came from a working class family and is successful, but he is quick to give credit to : student loans, luck, and the unconditional love of his mom and dad.

[Kenneth P.]

Many of the kids with huge college loans have only themselves(and their parents) to blame. Don't blame the banks for throwing money around--that's what they do. Are we to be surprised that they make lots of money available?

Was there an affordable state junior college available to you? Yes. Did you take advantage of it? No. What about a four-year state university-- did you go there? Did you even apply? No.

I have kids who were involved in this process. The snob factor is over-the-top. Junior Colleges are low-life. It's cool to get into a private, 50-grand-a-year college.

[Lobstergirl, el principe]

It's often the case that a degree from a 50k/yr college does help you get a better job. Is it worth the cost for everyone? No. I don't blame the kids and their parents who are way in debt from attending top tier colleges (unless we're talking Bennington or something, ha. Just kidding!).

But a lot of people have enormous debt from shitty colleges, too. They get an online degree from Phoenix University or one of the other diploma mills (which are not exactly cheap) which they think will get them a job, and now they have no job and have all the debt. So school debt is a mixed bag.

[Kenneth P.]

I don't blame the kids and their parents who are way in debt from attending top tier colleges. I don't either, unless they're whining about it. Enormous debt from "shitty colleges" blows my mind. When my youngest daughter graduated from high school, the only kids who went to Cape Cod Community College were mentally handicapped.... and it's a good school. Are you saying that Bennington is worse than Goddard?

[Félix]

I think it's more expensive than Goddard.

[Kenneth P.]

I have a nephew (who's broke) chasing an MA in philosophy there.

[Félix]

Where?

[Kenneth P.]

Goddard