Discworld discussion
Reading order
Kythe42 wrote: "I've never actually participated in this group before so forgive me for just jumping in here. I just wanted to put in my two cents. I've been following this topic and I haven't voiced my opinion be..."Thank you! You said it very well.
Thanks. Another thing I thought of which I don't believe has been mentioned yet is that if one is rereading the series, then it might be fun to start out with Strata. It's not actually part of the series, but I like to think of it as an unofficial prequel because it explores Pratchett's original concept of a flat planet. Probably not best for first time readers though as it doesn't have much to do with the actual series and would give the reader the wrong idea about what the series is really like(this is a much more valid argument than those put for not reading The Color of Magic first). Though one could probably safely read that book at any time while they are reading the series if they are interested in this earlier Pratchett novel. I found it to be a short, but very amusing read.
Kythe42 wrote: "So I wish everyone who is warning people off of The Color of Magic would kindly just knock it off. Just because you didn't like that book very much doesn't mean that other potential fans won't like it or even love it as I did."By the same token, people should stop 'warning' others not to read the series out of order, as if that would somehow result in the apocalypse or something, and just accept that many people have found reading the series in different orders enjoyable, and had no problem following the development of background characters while doing so.
Edit: On rereading the thread, it seems that it's not 'people' doing this, but just one person. Mostly everyone else seems to be pretty open-minded. So my posts may seem unnecessarily belligerent. My apologies.
I'm new to this group too - I joined a while ago, but this is the first thread I've posted in. Hi, fellow Pratchett fans. :)
You don't get it. You feel because you disliked The Colour of Magic that everyone should read the chart and read out of order. Give it up. Stop trying to spoil Discworld for others based on your dislike of the first book.
Wolfie, a person goes into a library and the only DW books are Small Gods, Masquerade, and night watch . The covers draws the person in, is it better for that person not to take those books out, or is it better that they take the books and read them (even though they have not read any other DW)?
Said person goes to the library and sees the books you mention. Said person then goes to the computer and orders the first book in the series. Gets it, reads it and orders the second and voila.
Unless said person doesn't have the money to spend on books. Of course there are other options, but I probably shouldn't talk about that here.
That's a cop out Wolfie. What you're basically saying if a person doesn't start with TCOM then they shouldn't read any DW novels. What a sad and empty world that would be. You talk about people missing out on the intricacies and nuances of the Disc if they don't read in publication order. Yet you seem to have missed the recurring theme of Pratchett about not being tied to one blinkered way of doing things.
Remember Wolfie, The Turtle Moves...
And remember, you don't care if you spoil the series for others.
Still never answered the question Wolfie. I don't mind how people come to the books. Read them in order, read them in subsets, read them in alphabetical order, by colour, or last to first. As I've said from way back when, as long as people enjoy the disc I think their world will be a better place. Ps Raising Steam is about trains. You should enjoy it, trains can only follow the rail and only go forwards and backwards
I do know of others who have started a long series out of order, realized they did so and start overt in order.Give it up, you are wrong and you just don't realize it.
Andy wrote: "Sorry but it is a good idea, because it stops people not liking discworld. Surely it is better for a person to read some of the series out of order than to give up on the first book, not read any m..."I've never had any response to my observation!
Apparently if you do not begin at zee begingz, zen it is better zat you read none of zee books, az you vill not appreciate every last nuance of zee vork of Herr Patchett. (Although personally I don't think you get everything from the books in the first read. There are always little bits that jump out on rereading, even when read in publication order)
If you read TCOM backwards it's about a very brave wizzard that chases a malevolent travel chest across the disc and sends it packing to the counterweight continent
If you read TCOM backwards it's about a very brave wizzard that chases a malevolent travel chest across the disc and sends it packing to the counterweight continent. Dude, you are brilliant. What would you make of Wyrd Sisters or Nightwatch, or Guards! Guards! backwards? lol
guards guards backwards is about a bitter police officer who covers up a case involving a cult that is made of members created from dragon fire. And his decent into alcoholism, with a side story about a dwarf born in a human body who longs to travel to the mountains.
I read the books completely out of order, Small Gods first, as I found them in the shops. It wasn't until I had read about twenty of the books that I began to start over again from the first book. Can books be read out of order and enjoyed? Absolutely.
Do you get more out of the books reading in order? yes, a lot of the little jokes and references in later books suddenly made sense and so I enjoyed re-reading these as almost a new book.
Each person is different, I personally think TCOM is one of the best Discworld books and Reaper man the worst, well until the last two books.
Well I'm certainly glad to hear that another person loves The Color of Magic, though I absolutely also loved Reaper Man as well. I thought it was really hilarious and enjoyed it a lot more than some of the other books in the series before it such as Guards! Guards! and Moving Pictures.*shrugs* To each their own I guess...
Graham wrote: "I read the books completely out of order, Small Gods first, as I found them in the shops. It wasn't until I had read about twenty of the books that I began to start over again from the first book. ..."Yes, you can read out of order if you like spoiling a very good series. If you've never read Discworld, reading out of order is the stupidest thing you can do.
Though apparently some people like to read things out of order to see things they don't understand become clear at a later time. It sort of reminds me of my first exposure to the Back to the Future trilogy when I was a little kid. My father rented the trilogy and then made us watch them in reverse order. He seemed to take sadistic pleasure in confusing me just so he could explain how certain things made sense once we watched the next movie. Though despite all that I really loved the movies and it was a major factor in hooking me on sci-fi, but I still wish I had been able to see the movies in the right order the first time around.
JSWolf wrote: Yes, you can read out of order if you like spoiling a very good series. If you've never read Discworld, reading out of order is the stupidest thing you can do."Try walking into the next bookshop you see and finding the first 4 books. I tended to buy books at the airport before flying and the choice is even more limited, at best I might find a few Discworld books.
Did not reading Guards! Guards! first mean I spoilt reading pyramids? I don't think it mattered that much. yes reading Making Money without first reading Going postal makes it hard to fully understand Moist, but most books are easily read independently.
Graham wrote: "JSWolf wrote: Yes, you can read out of order if you like spoiling a very good series. If you've never read Discworld, reading out of order is the stupidest thing you can do."Try walking into the ..."
I don't by books at the airport. I make sure I have the books I want to read with me. I read mostly eBooks and Discworld is trivial to get as eBooks. So getting the first four is no problem at all.
Besides, if you plan on reading a series like Discworld, you don't just walk into it haphazardly; you plan for it. And in planning for it, you make sure you have the first four books before you start the series.
I just checked at Barnes & Nobel and the first four Discworld books are available in pBook form. So it's not hard to plan ahead be it eBook or pBook you want.
Again Wolfie, what if someone walks in to an independent bookshop and the only Discworld book is, say, monstrous regiment. A new reader should just pass it over rather than buy it to read?
Niall wrote: "Again Wolfie, what if someone walks in to an independent bookshop and the only Discworld book is, say, monstrous regiment. A new reader should just pass it over rather than buy it to read?"If that person wants to eventually read Monstrous Regiment, then go ahead and buy it. But then put it aside until it's gotten to. Sometimes you have to buy books in a series out of order in order to get them such that you can read in order.
What you want is people to read out of order. It's like knowing Col. Mustard did it in the library with the candle stick before you play the game.
Wolfie, I'm glad your analogies aren't boats, they are so full of holes they would sink the moment they were launched. Reading a Discworld book out of order is perhaps like starting a jigsaw in the middle, but even then, with my much better analogy you eventually do see the whole picture. Your rather poor CLUDO ( that's the proper name of the game, not clue) point would be more akin to someone reading the readers digest version of a book and seeing the plot and then reading the book.
I'm sorry you are CLUEless. You just don't get it. I just hope nobody is CLUEless enough to listen to you.
JsWolf. I have to ask how do you know you like a series if you never read any of the books? If I hadn't picked up Small Gods then I never would have read any Discworld books and missed out on my favourite series of books. Discworld isn't like LOTR where you need to have read the previous book to understand what is going on. You can read Monstrous Regiment without knowing who Granny Weatherwax is.
I'm glad you like ebooks, personally I hate them for several reason.
Clueless, love that film. But Wolfie, you show the weakness of your position by needing to resort to insults in an attempt to deflect. As opposed to actually presenting an argument to counter the points made by others.
Graham, there is room in the world for tree books and ebooks. But as Stephen Fry said, "Books are no more threatened by Kindle than stairs by elevators."
Graham wrote: "I read the books completely out of order, Small Gods first, as I found them in the shops. It wasn't until I had read about twenty of the books that I began to start over again from the first book. ..."For me the experience was similar, I met the Discworld series 20 years ago in the public library. Started with Moving Pictures and fell in love with the series.
A beauty of the Discworld for me has always been the way that the series is divided: witches, wizards, guards, death etc. I've reread these many times over the years and always prefer to read each subset from beginning to end before starting the next set, which is completely out of order.
The exception here was TCOM, it was never available at my local libraries (I spite of all my requests), nor did I know any other Pratchett fans who had a copy. Actually only read it 3 years ago when my husband bought me a special edition. I don't think reading it almost 20 years after the others ever diminished my enjoyment of the series. I also don't think that this is a series that MUST be read in order, all readers are different, we all have our own style.
Niall wrote: "Graham, there is room in the world for tree books and ebooks. But as Stephen Fry said, "Books are no more threatened by Kindle than stairs by elevators.""I totally agree, and for some people they make a lot of sense and I even know someone who only reads books because she has a Kindle.
Again personally I don't like them, but that a personal thing.
Niall wrote: "Graham, there is room in the world for tree books and ebooks. But as Stephen Fry said, "Books are no more threatened by Kindle than stairs by elevators.""Love the analogy.
Kythe42 wrote: "Um sorry but which book is CMOT? I'm looking at my list of Disc books and I don't see any that could fit the acronym CMOT. The only thing that brings to mind is Cut My Own Throat, or CMOT Dibbler, ..."Lol, I saw that on reread, I meant TCOM(the color of magic). Was hoping I'd fix it before it was seen. I'm sure Dibbler would be cutting his own throat with glee at my slip up
Graham wrote: "I'm guess Lisa meant TCOM."Yeah I saw that you fixed it after I posted which was why I then deleted my post, but I guess you guys are too quick and saw it anyway. LOL
I'm really very shocked by some of the opinions expressed in this thread. It seems there are people here who think it's OK to read the later books in the Discworld series without having read the earlier books. People, if you do that, you will fail to understand many of the references!!
By the same token, no-one should be allowed to read The Color of Magic until they have read at least one Lankhmar novel by Fritz Leiber, because if they do, they won't understand that Bravd and the Weasel are a spoof on Fafhrd and the Mouser.
Also no-one should be allowed to read Pyramids until they have completed a degree course in Egyptology.
A degree course in fairy tales is also absolutely essential to properly understanding the Discworld novels, as is a thorough knowledge of police procedure (the Vimes novels), feminism (Monstrous Regiment), the history of warfare (Jingo), the history of economics (Making Money) and the postal system (Going Postal), and I could go on like this for ever, but you get my drift. Frankly, you and I are simply not worthy to read these books at all.
Let's face it, the only person who should be allowed to read the Discworld novels is Terry Pratchett himself, because he's the only person with a sufficiently encyclopedic knowledge to understand everything in them. If riff-raff like you and me read them, we will almost certainly miss something, and Terry's hard work will go unappreciated.
All Discworld novels should therefore be banned at once for everyone (except Terry Pratchett), and anyone found reading one should be sentenced to death.
Happy April the 1st.
By the same token, no-one should be allowed to read The Color of Magic until they have read at least one Lankhmar novel by Fritz Leiber, because if they do, they won't understand that Bravd and the Weasel are a spoof on Fafhrd and the Mouser.
Also no-one should be allowed to read Pyramids until they have completed a degree course in Egyptology.
A degree course in fairy tales is also absolutely essential to properly understanding the Discworld novels, as is a thorough knowledge of police procedure (the Vimes novels), feminism (Monstrous Regiment), the history of warfare (Jingo), the history of economics (Making Money) and the postal system (Going Postal), and I could go on like this for ever, but you get my drift. Frankly, you and I are simply not worthy to read these books at all.
Let's face it, the only person who should be allowed to read the Discworld novels is Terry Pratchett himself, because he's the only person with a sufficiently encyclopedic knowledge to understand everything in them. If riff-raff like you and me read them, we will almost certainly miss something, and Terry's hard work will go unappreciated.
All Discworld novels should therefore be banned at once for everyone (except Terry Pratchett), and anyone found reading one should be sentenced to death.
Happy April the 1st.
That was awesome Chris! Thanks for making me laugh.
Chris wrote: "I'm really very shocked by some of the opinions expressed in this thread. It seems there are people here who think it's OK to read the later books in the Discworld series without having read the ea..."This is the most sensible thing that's been said on this thread.
Chris, it's would be ok to buy them all (in the right order) and keep them on a shelf. As long as you only admire the covers it's just a slap on the wrist (unless that's your thing) or a fine.
Chris wrote: "I'm really very shocked by some of the opinions expressed in this thread. It seems there are people here who think it's OK to read the later books in the Discworld series without having read the ea..."Very funny! Well done.
Brilliant Chris!I can't believe that one person has kept this argument going for two years, continually trying to impose personal views on all other Discworld readers. Perhaps that's his job. Or perhaps "Get a life" is pertinent here.
It's something to do of an evening. :)
What is being missed here is that a lot of the Discworld stories take place in the same setting regardless of who the main characters are. You get a lot of the same secondary/background characters. Their stories progress throughout. So by reading out of order, while you might not be spoiling things for the main characters, you are spoiling things for the secondary/background characters. This is something that you should be taking into account. Things progress with the people and/or places.You read something in a later book about something and go back to an earlier book and you may very well have spoiled something.
Also, some books rely on what you should know from earlier book(s). Terry does not recap so what you don't know, he won't tell you.
Are you aware of the concept of mentalisation and theory of mind JS? It's similar to Tiffany's third thoughts- the ability to think about what you are thinking about. It applies here.
Let's say you read any of the earlier novels where Foul Ol Ron crops up. Then read The Truth where we learn Gaspode is his thinking-brain -dog and that Altogether Andrews has joined the canting crew. But you missed The Hogfather where you learnt who the canting crew is and where they live.
Third thoughts enable us to recognize that we missed something and to hold that something for later for when we see it again. This would apply for any of the minor characters.
Also, those of us who haven't read in order don't seem to feel that we have missed out on anything.
If I'd waited for Colour of Magic before reading Discworld, I would have missed 20 years of fantastic reading, reading that shapes my thoughts and how I read.
If it's the choice between connecting the dots for subtleties versus missing out entirely, I know where I stand.
Chris wrote: "I'm really very shocked by some of the opinions expressed in this thread. It seems there are people here who think it's OK to read the later books in the Discworld series without having read the ea..."Hah! That's awesome. Thanks for the laugh. :)
I agree with JSWolf that the books should be read in publication order if possible, but what I don't get is the obsession with trying to make everyone else read the books the same way. I'm failing to understand how it diminishes your enjoyment of the books if other people prefer to read them in a different order?
I don't think anyone is saying the books should not be read in publication order. Pterry has said the books are a serial not a series, that there are detail that are fuller for having knowledge of what was written before, but no book is beyond understanding if it's the only book you've read. It's just that some folk would apparently have people read no Discworld books rather than start with a "wrong" book. Which is just a silly position to take, but you have to admire their dogged determination in the face of common sense. And as I've said before, it's something to do at night. :)
Discworld
Books mentioned in this topic
The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents (other topics)The Color of Magic (other topics)
Pyramids (other topics)
The Color of Magic (other topics)
The Truth: Stage Adaptation (other topics)
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I recognize that everyone has different opinions and different people prefer to read series in different orders and that's ok. What really pisses me off though is when people constantly say that you should never start out with The Color of Magic because it's not that good and it will put you off from reading the series entirely.
The Color of Magic was my first taste of Discworld. I didn't have anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't read first. I just went into the book store, asked a salesperson to recommend an author with a similar style to Douglas Adams and he said I should read the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. I bought The Color of Magic and absolutely loved it and couldn't wait to read more of the series.
So I wish everyone who is warning people off of The Color of Magic would kindly just knock it off. Just because you didn't like that book very much doesn't mean that other potential fans won't like it or even love it as I did.