Discworld discussion
Reading order
message 51:
by
Huw
(new)
Dec 29, 2011 02:20AM
Thanks D.L. for that analogy - great image; can you imagine not being allowed into a gig unless you could prove that you had listened to every album by the band?
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AH, Suddenly discovered why the irony isn't being understood by some.
Well, on the music point: you don't HAVE to have heard the first four symphonies, but certainly if you go straight from Mozart's Jupiter to Beethoven's Fate, you'll be somewhat perplexed. The Eroica is an important bridging piece.People think they can come to music with a blank slate, but to the extent that this does work it's because everybody today has heard Beethoven - they've heard Beethoven's own work permeating society, and they've heard the echo of Beethoven in all the music around them. But imagine yourself back to the time of Bach and THEN play Beethoven's fifth, and people wouldn't understand it. Just as most westerners can't understand carnatic music, or gamelan music, or japanese opera. And if you want a higher understanding and enjoyment of beethoven, you do, I think, have to, if not dogmatically go along piece by piece, at least have some awareness of where he's coming from.
Music is like a conversation across the centuries. If you walk in partway through, sure, you can get the gist of what is being said and make some cogent replies, but you'll have a far better sense of what's going on if you start the conversation at the beginning. Of course, in music, nobody can remember how the conversation started.
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Wolf, of course, is completely wrong. Or rather, he has different criteria for evaluating things. He's quite right that if you don't read the first two books, you'll go "huh?" when you first encounter the luggage. If going "huh?" is dangerous to your metabolism, he's quite right that it's vital to stick to the correct order. Otherwise you'll find yourself going "huh?" repeatedly, and could damage your internal organs - I believe the organ responsible for dealing with "huh?" is the spleen (oh look, a Reaper Man joke, but don't worry, the others can just enjoy the pun). So if you find your spleen exploding too frequently, like Wolf, it's best to stick to the strict diet.
Then again, if you're really that splenetic you should probably avoid Discworld altogether. I mean, the Luggage is still a 'huh?' moment in tCoM anyway.
On the music part I would say huh? and what? and some ookaay? About the book part. Read the cover. If the text on the cover isn't mentioning about the luggage, wizards, and rincewind. Or 3 witches. I think you'll be safe to read this book.
You can also read the book if there isn't any talking about nightwatches and stuff.
so what Louise is saying is, as long as the book does not mention luggage, Rincewind, wizards, witches, the watch, and probably Ankh Morpork to be safe, you can read the rest in any order you want :)
exactly. people I'm living in 2012 now. Fireworks are exploding in the air. Talk to you later.
I think what we've established is that Discworld is a rich fantasy world with many wonderful characters. I know I go there often. I like living in Orlando, but I love visiting Discworld. :-)
I agree with D.L.I have reread many disc world books if I need some thing to cheer me up there is nothing like a bit of Pratchett.
JSWolf wrote: "Andy wrote: "I would NOT recommend The Color of Magic, although it is the first, it is not the best and can put some people off. There is a great reading order guide on the lspace website. I would ..."I disagree. Read them in the published order or you will miss out on the background humor, not that doing so is a great loss but why miss out? I also enjoyed experiencing his world develop from the very beginning. Colour of Magic IS one of his best, IMO but then everyone is entitled to their own.
I didn't really fancy the discworld novels and then someone lent me Mort. So i went back to TCOM and read through the novels in in the publication order.But i would agree that the Colour Of Magic could put some people off,there are other books in the series that i didn't enjoy but even these i have read over and over again probably in the belief that i must be missing something about these particular novels but to date my opinoin on them hasn't changed.
I would agree that not all Discworld novels are equally good. I find Sourcery and Equal Rites pretty dull compared to the rest and I must be missing something in Unseen Academicals, which I always hoped would be a prequel. Even Shakespeare produced some duds!
Yeah I didn't really enjoy Unseen, the whole 'comon if you think your hard enough' and sly football references was borderline pandering. The story itself was so - so.
You really need to read from the start and read them all as Pratchett has interwoven characters into all of the books that will pop up later. It just makes more sense. I missed one book, mort, and ended up having to backtrack as nothing was making sense.
Stephen wrote: "You really need to read from the start and read them all as Pratchett has interwoven characters into all of the books that will pop up later. It just makes more sense. I missed one book, mort, and ..."Now there is a smart person who knows the proper way to read Discworld. Also, that is the best stated reason for reading in published order.
Oh my I did it all wrong then. And here am I all this time thinking I was smart. I feel realy small right now. Very tiny hihi. You know what? I don't care. I realy don't. I never missed a thing by not starting with the first.
Louise wrote: "Oh my I did it all wrong then. And here am I all this time thinking I was smart. I feel realy small right now. Very tiny hihi. You know what? I don't care. I realy don't. I never missed a thing by ..."Actually, you did. You missed a lot. I feel sorry for you that you just don't get it. I feel sorry for anyone who listens to you as you don't get it and you tell others it's OK to do it the way you do which is wrong. Please don't tell others it's OK to do it wrong when they will miss things and have a less enjoyable reading experience.
No, you are the one who doesn't get it. I know 5 people who read colour of magic and found it too different so have not read any more discworld books. They all had the potential to be discworld fans but won't read any more of them because colour of magic put them off. If only they had started with different books they would now be fans and would be reading all the books. Probably gone back and read the whole series start to end which most of us fans do at some point (thus missing nothing). What of this don't you understand?
JSWolf wrote: Louise wrote: "Oh my I did it all wrong then. And here am I all this time thinking I was smart. I feel realy small right now. Very tiny hihi. You know what? I don't care. I realy don't. I never missed a thing by ..."Actually, you did. You missed a lot. I feel sorry for you that you just don't get it. I feel sorry for anyone who listens to you as you don't get it and you tell others it's OK to do it the way you do which is wrong. Please don't tell others it's OK to do it wrong when they will miss things and have a less enjoyable reading experience.
Wolfie, you really are a patronising arse!!!
There is only one "RIGHT" way to read a Discworld book, start at the first page, and read until the last page.
Very few people only read the Discworld books once, so irrespective of what book they begin with, the majority of people will pick up the references as they go.
Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are wrong, it just means they have a different approach from you.
Perhaps reading the books out of order was too difficult for you, but a lot of people have no problem with this
The first time Discworld is read should be in the published order. After that it doesn't mattet as you'll already know what happened.But to go and tell people to do it wrong is you being the arse just because you don't agree with the reading order is wrong.
Goodness me, what strong feelings people express in this thread, and how unpleasant and disrespectful are some of the ways of expressing them! I was one of those who didn't get on with TCOM at all on first try, and found my way in by reading others first. I can't remember the order I read them in as I've read most of the books several times now. For me, it's interesting coming acros various aspects of the plots and characters that arise from reading them in a different order. I used to find the same as a child, when reading various series of novels. I notice for example that modern book lists always recommend that kids read the Chronicles of Narnia starting with 'The Magician's Nephew' simply because it's the first in chronological sequence. In fact CS Lewis wrote 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' first , and when you come to TMN it's a really fun 'Oh, wow, yeah, so that's where it all started then!' moment, when we find out the origin of the lamp-post etc. It's a bit like the moment in a crime novel where the detective reveals whodunnit, and how s/he worked it out!But I digress... surely what matters is that people love and enjoy the Discworld books in whatever way suits them best. If people want to read them in order of publication they may miss out on some of those 'Aha!' moments, but if they prefer to have it all set out like that, where's the harm? We all have our inner Asperger's about something. Let's celebrate our differences, not insult one another!
technically it was the bookstore that let me read in the wrong order. there was just no other pratchett book available at that time.
Arguments arguments, each to their own eh chaps. For me it should be in published order, Ankh Morpork grows and develops, as does its characters. I was introduced via the witches and quickly reverted to a colour of magic (neither of which i find to be his strongest works). It was the city watch and the city itself I fell in love with. Also make sure you read his non discworld books such as the carpet people. have fun folks xx
l've read them mixed up AND again in order and enjoyed each one anyway.
I'm still surprised to see that I shouldn't have read TCOM and TLF, first. I loved the first two books. If I hadn't liked them so much, I'd have never read another discworld novel after "Equal Rites", which I hated and never finished, and then "Mort", which I also hated and never finished. Around this time I recieved a copy of "The Truth" which I never started. I read, or started to read the first four books with two weeks time (circa 2005). The friend who'd recommended the series to me said Rincewind only appeared again later, and sporadically, so I gave up.Later, upon getting the unabridged audio versions of TCOM and TLF (God Bless Audible), I did some research and found out all about the special reading orders. I started reading the stand-alone books in-between finishing off the Rincewind series. I loved all the Rincewind books, including Eric! and Last Hero. I've enjoyed the stand alone books that I've read so far; Small Gods (Great!), Unseen Academicals(Really great), and Pyramids(started stronger than it finished, still great).
Had I started with any of the other 'series', having not read TCOM/TLF, I certainly wouldn't have read anymore discworld. I did eventually get to "Guards, Guards" and I didn't like it either. I'm currently reading The Truth. Opinion unformed.
So, how should I proceed? Did rapid exposure to The Witches and Death get ruined because I'd just finished TCOM/TLF? Are the other serials intro's really just as crap as TCOM/TLF with the series improving over time so that the aggregate is a beloved series where we just ignore that it started by soiling itself messily?
Ok, here's the proof you need that reading out of order is not intended by Terry Pratchett. The following is directly from Terry...Terry Pratchett wrote: As far as I am concerned, the Discworld books are in chronological order. Anything that suggests differently is probably because of the Trousers of Time, magical leakage from the HEM and so on...
http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/words...
I refer back to my previous comments about the chronological order of the Narnia books, as just one example, and the same could be said of many fictional series. Some people like spotting the links between the stories and I don't see anything wong with that. And because the events in the stories occur in chronological order it doesn't mean TP thinks they should inevitably be read in chronological order. I really don't understand what the fuss is about. I bet TP doesn't give a cuss about the question. He strikes me as a man with far too balanced a sense of proportion, and also a man willing to let people be themselves and not conform to arbitrary rules.
So what you are saying is Terry Pratchett is wrong? He said what he said. Take it as the way it is since he is the author.
Mr Pratchett did NOT say they should be read in any order. He said they occur in chronological order, which is different. Please read what Carole (and TP) is actually saying.
Thank you Andy! if you think about it, it's highly unlikely that most people would be able to get hold of the books in chron order anyway. Also, picking up all those references and making the links is part of the fun of getting involved in the series. It's a bit like finding out new things about a person you know well, and linking them to your previous knowledge.
This entire subject has been beaten into the ground, buried, dug up, lite on fire and then buried again. Just read the books, however you want. Chances are if you're like me you'll read them multiple times anyhow.
I can't help thinking of all those poor sods who started reading Discworld back in the early days... they had no choice but to read them all in chronological order... how bad they must feel today... if they only had waited a few decades, they could enjoy a much better reading order... whatever that may be... ;-)
How perceptive of you Gomez, cos that's just what I had to do! I think I read some at least 5 times waiting for a new one to come out.I'm now re-reading in the other order, just finished all the wizards and am now starting the witches. Haven't looked at TP books for a while so I'm indulging myself.
I think all this "proper" reading order is taken a bit too seriously. Read whatever and whenever and just enjoy them x
Nice necroposting dude. You're so cool with your sarcasm. God forbid people read what they want. Come over sometime and well burn some books together!PLEASE LET THIS THREAD DIE.
DIE.
DIE.
DIE.
DIE.
DIE.
RIP.
This thread will never die until those that haven't a clue get one and realize that published order is the correct way to read Discworld for the first time.
Gomez wrote: "I can't help thinking of all those poor sods who started reading Discworld back in the early days... they had no choice but to read them all in chronological order... how bad they must feel today....."I started with Hogfather. The earlier books weren't available in the U.S. yet. This has since been corrected. Speaking of which - I still don't know when Judgement Day - The Science of Discworld IV will be available here. It was supposed to be released today in the U.K. but I checked this morning, and according to Amazon, it's "out of print" or "not yet released" depending on which notice you want to believe.
Robert wrote: "Nice necroposting dude. You're so cool with your sarcasm. God forbid people read what they want. Come over sometime and well burn some books together!"Necroposting? That's a new one to me. But that's the problem with irony. You point it in one direction, and somewhere else someone takes it as sarcasm.
The point being indeed read what you want in whatever order you want, heck, you don't even have to read them ALL if you don't want to.
One thing you can't have, though, is having threads like this, or the favourite/least favourite character/book ones, to DIE DIE DIE (talk about necroposting :))
Fans will want to discuss these things, it's only natural, and discussions, sometimes, will turn into arguments, it's only human.
Indeed, just let's not take it all too seriously, that's where my misinterpreted irony was aiming, trying to make light of what's not really a "serious" matter, c'mon...
JSWolf wrote: "This thread will never die until those that haven't a clue get one and realize that published order is the correct way to read Discworld for the first time."
And here we go again... oh, well, never mind... :)
No, see here is my main beef with you and JSWolf, neither of you are adding anything new to the discussion. All I've heard for the past several months are the same regurgitated arguments over and over and over again. JSWolf specifically is like some crusty troll under a stone bridge convinced hes the pope of Pratchett purity and spewing sermons at every passersby.Honestly you sound like dorky fourth graders discussing who's the best superhero, with such arrogance and self richeous indignation towards anyone who doesn't agree with you, that the majority who do, do so simply to enjoy watching you go into a nerd rage.
Continue to beat this subject into the ground for another six months to your hearts content, its your right to be as big of a moron as you like. But for the innocent passersby crossing your bridge I'm leaving this post as a 'warning: trolls ahead.'
Robert wrote: "No, see here is my main beef with you and JSWolf, neither of you are adding anything new to the discussion.Never even had a chance to try... I just got here!
All I've heard for the past several months are the same regurgitated arguments over and over and over again"
Not from me, you haven't. I only tried some humour, which clearly didn't work, should have known better, but I'm only a fourth grader, what do I know of anything?
But as I said, never mind, you just don't get it, keep on trolling as much as you like, you can't prevent people from discussing whatever they please, in a reasonably civilised manner.
Don't like it? Don't read it, it's such a simple trick even a fourth grader could accomplish it, unless he or she were LOOKING to spew some bile just for sport.
Never even had a chance to try... I just got here!It doesn't matter when you're just repeating what other people have said fifty times.
Not from me, you haven't.
Um, yeah actually you are.
The point being indeed read what you want in whatever order you want, heck, you don't even have to read them ALL if you don't want to.
Like I said. Regurgitated. Which just sets JSWolf on another rant.
I only tried some humour, which clearly didn't work, should have known better.
What can I say bro, try being funnier maybe? Or should I have laughed just to satisfy your fragile ego.
But as I said, never mind, you just don't get it, keep on trolling as much as you like.
Trolling? Nice, now you're just repeating me.
you can't prevent people from discussing whatever they please, in a reasonably civilised manner.
Yup exactly, if this were a civilized conversation, but it isn't. Nothing is being accomplished here, or discussed other than innocent people giving their opinion and JSWolf ripping into them. Then you coming along with your 'irony' and 'humor' and getting butt hurt and forcing me to clarify your confusion.
Don't like it? Don't read it, it's such a simple trick even a fourth grader could accomplish it
Take your own advice. Don't like my responses don't read them. I'm here because JSWolf has been pissing me off with his mouth for awhile now.
What you don't get is that reading guide was created by people who have already read Discworld. So for them, to read out of order or any order they like is OK because they've already read the books. You just cannot assume others will find it OK to read the way you'll read (after you've read the series). Please don't confuse the issue for people new to the series.For example, there's a recommendation to skip The Colour of Magic. But if that is done, you won't learn about the luggage and the luggage won't be such a good character later on in the series.
Now we are right back to the start of this thread, in that quite a few people who read the Colour of Magic first don't then read any more Discworld books, even if they do know the full history of the luggage. And those people who start with other books, like Disworld so end up reading all the books, including Colour of Magic, so get the full picture in the end. I would rather have more people as Discworld fans then be a purist and put people off.
Um, We're all Discworld fans here, which suggests we're reasonably intelligent and have a sense of humor. I don't suppose we could just all accept that our personal preferences are, well, personal, and our suggestions are just suggestions? Our differences are minor compared to what we have in common, after all.
D.L. wrote: "Um, We're all Discworld fans here, which suggests we're reasonably intelligent and have a sense of humor. I don't suppose we could just all accept that our personal preferences are, well, personal,..."Sounds good to me except one issue...
What do we (as a group) tell reader(s) new to Discworld?
JSWolf wrote: "D.L. wrote: "Um, We're all Discworld fans here, which suggests we're reasonably intelligent and have a sense of humor. I don't suppose we could just all accept that our personal preferences are, we..."We don't 'tell' them anything. We 'suggest.' We can provide options. Since we've visited the Disc, we can recommend places a new reader might like based on his or her tastes.
We could tell new readers to enjoy their book.
Louise wrote: "We could tell new readers to enjoy their book."Well, yes. We could do that, I suppose. Or at least we can say we HOPE they will. Not everyone has the exquisite taste of frequent Discworld visitors.
Louise wrote: "We could tell new readers to enjoy their book."But the problem is that this thread is highly confusing for new readers. They get told a lot of garbage such as don't read in order, follow a chart that's garbage, and don't start with The Colour of Magic. That's all a load of rubbish.
Start with A Colour of Magic, read in published order and just sit back and enjoy the wild ride.
Discworld
Books mentioned in this topic
The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents (other topics)The Color of Magic (other topics)
Pyramids (other topics)
The Color of Magic (other topics)
The Truth: Stage Adaptation (other topics)
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