The Last Battle
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The very end
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Aubrey
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Oct 16, 2008 09:26AM
So, did anyone else see it coming that they had all died? Also, nothing in the end was said about SUSAN. How SAD for her back in the real world, having to find out all her siblings and parents and close friends all died the SAME DAY! Did anyone else think of that?
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I'm so glad you mentioned that, because it dawned on a me a few days after I finished reading that poor Susan had just lost her brothers, her sister, and her parents! Poor thing!!!I think I had inklings that there really was a train wreck, but I'm not sure I fully figured out that they all had died in it. At least they all got to meet again in "Real Narnia" ;>
Of course. This series is simply a simpler form of the though of God and Christianity. Eventually, Susan dies and goes to heaven (Real Narnia). It isn't a train wreck, being in"Real Narina' is four thousand times better then "Fake" Narina. For example (This is used many times is many places): In FN, their watermelon is cardboard, and in RN, it's the real thing. So in reality, it isn't that sad at all (Though Susan never understood this till later and it was kinda dramatic).
That is comforting, then, that eventually Susan would learn of Real Narnia and be reunited with her family again:)
Susan, it said, chose worldly things over Narnia and Aslan. She stopped believing in it, and therefore will not go to heaven. I think she did die, but didn't go with them.
Andrew wrote: "Susan, it said, chose worldly things over Narnia and Aslan. She stopped believing in it, and therefore will not go to heaven. I think she did die, but didn't go with them."Exactly. It's sad, but I'm glad Lewis decided to put that in the story, because it's so realistic.
Susan has become very shallow and started to believe in a lite world. I suppose she started to feel that she fit well there because of her extreme beauty (which was praised in two books).Maybe she started to change her shallow ways when she got the news about the dead of her family. Although the author have never commented what happened to her after the end of the series.
I agree Susan does not go to Real Narnia because she does not believe in Aslan any more.
Krystal wrote: "I agree Susan does not go to Real Narnia because she does not believe in Aslan any more."If that is the case, then how could it be that the parents of the Pevensive siblings went to the Real Narnia?
As Aslan mentioned once, in our world we know him by other name.
I think that as long as one does good deeds, and follows God and Jesus' teachings, one can get a place in Heaven despite having different believings (of course, I mean Buddism, Hinduism, Muslim and others who teach lessons about living in peace and harmony). However, the authour emphasizes Christianity.
Maybe Susan, at that moment, wouldn't have gone with them to the Real Narnia, so it may be the reason of why the authour hadn't included her in the accident. Or maybe she was fated to not been with them because she wouldn't change her ways for the rest of her life. I suppose no one will ever know.
This book was part of a Bible as Lit. class that I took sometime ago. According to that instructor, with Susan's exclusion Lewis was making the point that belief in Aslan/Christ was a necessary element to go to Aslan's Country/Heaven. There are quite a few Christian denominations that are firm about this point, though individuals often choose a less firm line for their personal beliefs.
Aubrey wrote: "So, did anyone else see it coming that they had all died? Also, nothing in the end was said about SUSAN. How SAD for her back in the real world, having to find out all her siblings and parents and ..."Susan went to Hell, she lost her belief in Narnia and became more interested in Men and Adult-Woman stuff
David wrote: "Aubrey wrote: "So, did anyone else see it coming that they had all died? Also, nothing in the end was said about SUSAN. How SAD for her back in the real world, having to find out all her siblings a..."agreed
Saved By Grace wrote: "I thought it was sad but it was also realistic that one of the children-now not children, of course-would stop believing in Aslan."I agree and if any of them would stop believing it would most realisticly be Susan.
It does mention Susan, describing her as no longer a friend of Narnia. It is like in the real world when someone loses their faith.
Yeah, I think the Pevensie's parents went because they were believers of Jesus in our world and for some reason their heaven is the same as the new Narnia.
That's right, Pevensive parents went to the real Narnia despite not believing directly neither in Aslan nor Narnia. That means that no matter one's beliefs as long as they teach values like love, respect, forgiveness and unselfishness.
Now that I think about it, didn't someone who was in the side of Narnia's enemy enter to the real Narnia as well?
I felt bad for Susan losing her family, but she should have had more faith in Narnia. It was almost as if they all agreed to believe and then she broke her promise. I feel bad, but perhaps it was payment for not believing.
Angie wrote: "That's right, Pevensive parents went to the real Narnia despite not believing directly neither in Aslan nor Narnia. That means that no matter one's beliefs as long as they teach values like love..."
I don't recall the Pevensie parents being mentioned, but I read it last in German so I may have missed things, and my last English read-through of this was a while ago. My understanding, though, is that if the Pevensie parents believe in Jesus they *do* believe in Aslan; they simply don't know Him by that name. And yes, there's a Kalorman (sp?) with them in the Real Narnia. He was an honorable man who truly sought God, but to him God was Tash. Aslan tells him that the good he did for Tash, Aslan accounts as worship of Himself. The type of worship Tash would want is evil and chaotic, which this man was not. Maybe someone who remembers this part better will chime in, though?
Aubrey wrote: "So, did anyone else see it coming that they had all died? Also, nothing in the end was said about SUSAN. How SAD for her back in the real world, having to find out all her siblings and parents and ..."That was a downer that Susan did not go with them to Narnia. And then she missed out on the greater Narnia at the end. I kind of wondered what that was about.
I thought it was sad that Susan could not go to them with the special Narnia at the end. Thanks for your comment though Julian. It is true that Susan would eventually be able to go to the other Narnia to reunite with everyone else.
Angie wrote: "Krystal wrote: "I agree Susan does not go to Real Narnia because she does not believe in Aslan any more."If that is the case, then how could it be that the parents of the Pevensive siblings went ..."
I don't think they went to real Narnia, they saw them but they were in "The Real England" not "The Real Narnia"
I enjoyed how Lewis parallels the Irish myth of the end of days return of Finn and the Fianna with the reference to the waking giant and the three blows of the horn
Amanda wrote: "I enjoyed how Lewis parallels the Irish myth of the end of days return of Finn and the Fianna with the reference to the waking giant and the three blows of the horn"Wow, Amanda! I didn't know that. Lewis is amazing. He has Platonic elements all through the chronicles and various other allusions as well, as you've pointed out.
As for Susan, Lewis was never clear whether she was just "backslidden" or she actually renounced her faith (Narnia) forever. In a letter to a young reader he said: “The books don’t tell us what happened to Susan. She is left alive in this world at the end, having by then turned into a rather silly, conceited young woman. But there’s plenty of time for her to mend and perhaps she will get to Aslan’s country in the end . . . in her own way.”
I wish someone who knows how would mark this as a Spoiler Alert thread. I do not mind but should be marked as that, don't you think?
I thought the ending was so beautiful... I cried!
Me too. It was the first story I ever read that gave me hope and excitement about life after death.
I was surprised at the end. I liked it though, especially because it was a clever way to have them meet all of the characters again. It was such an ingenious idea!
I have a small doubt... Once i finished the series I remember reading something along the lines of Aslan says "What they did in good in the name of the other god they did good in my name, and what they did evil in my name they did evil in his" So I was thinking that It meant that if your good and do good then you can go to Aslan´s country, which is why i was( and still am! ) a bit confused with Susan....
An exellent article on exactly this topic was posted in March 2011 over at Tor.comhttp://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/03/at-t...
I found the whole "New Narnia" thing confusing.
When I finished reading this blasted thing, I threw it across the room. Susan doesn't get to go to Paradise?I've heard people defend this by saying she was spared from death because at that moment if she died she would be damned to hell, and it was a kindness of Aslan to spare her that fate. Is a woman damned for liking lipstick and nylons? Something tells me this is code for coming into her sexuality(not necessarily having sex, it was the fifties). She was probably just going out to parties and having dates. You know, normal young adult activities. So now she has to go on in life after losing her entire family, and "perhaps" will get into LionJesus's heaven after she has time to mend her AUDACIOUS VIXEN WAYS. I think C.S. Lewis just has something against teenagers. He wishes kids would just stay perfect innocent kids forever.
Neil Gaiman wrote about "The Problem of Susan", with his speculations about what happens to her. It's worth looking up.
Elizabeth wrote: "When I finished reading this blasted thing, I threw it across the room. Susan doesn't get to go to Paradise?I've heard people defend this by saying she was spared from death because at that moment if she died she would be damned to hell ..."I don't think she would have ended up there but I think it was just a small consequence for her because she stopped believing in Narnia. Sure as one commenter said she would eventually end up in the real Narnia (or the "Great Narnia") but she was almost always the one to doubt situations of the four Pevensies.
CJ wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "When I finished reading this blasted thing, I threw it across the room. Susan doesn't get to go to Paradise?I've heard people defend this by saying she was spared from death becau..."It just feels like such a set-up for Susan, first she's told at the end of Prince Caspian that she can't go back to Narnia. Then later when she embraces getting older she loses her entire family in a train crash as divine punishment. Nobody told her the rules for getting into New Narnia! How was she supposed to know, she thought that part of her life was over. So she soon forgot it was real and rushed to "the silliest time in one's life". Peter must have been a teenager too, but for some reason he's cool. It just seems sexist.
Everyone in the afterlife is so nonchalant about this, they discuss her like they're vaguely disappointed in her but not sad about it...and then they literally just change the subject like, 'oh well, but look heres some fruit trees'
Susan didn't get into the "New Narnia", not because she liked wearing lipstick, etc, but because she no longer believed in Aslan, aka God. Just like in real life, if someone looses their faith and says they don't believe in God anymore...they won't get to Heaven. As for the others, there really was nothing they could do at that point to change Susan's mind, or do anything about her.
Personally, I thought it was good to have it in there, as a reminder that it is possible for any one of us, regardless of how real an experience we've had with God, to lose faith, and turn aside because of the "cares of this life".
Also, Lewis gave Lucy, (*gasp* it's a girl!), the privilege to be the one who actually discovered Narnia in the first place, and had the best relationship with Aslan.
I don't want to be mean but I think Aslan is an ass... Really?? You NEED to be believed in to allow people to be in your world? It looks like the guy that NEEDS to be liked to invite people to their party.I think it's the worst. End. Ever. Teaching love how to be all kinds of exclusive. Nobody thinks about Susan's feelings. She was just "extremely beautiful"! Wasn't her fault. Ever if she wore make-up! She was just a girl.
I think the Last Battle was way too centered around darkness, doom, and pushing morals in our faces. It came off as pushy and cold. I was so disgusted with the end that to complain about Susan would be to complain about a thousand more things that should have been different. It made her seem really two-dimensional.
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