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Make yourself feel better by doing searches in WORD for common errors: and and, the the, .. , and such. Double commas, comma " comma, etc.. You'll probably find a ton at first (maybe). You'll feel better about letting anyone else see it if you eliminate as many silly mistakes as possible. YOU WON"T FIND THEM ALL lol.Then YOU do your own proof read. Look for words that you use too close together or too often.
Sit back and scan pages without reading. How do they look? Too many single line paragraphs? Paragraphs that run too long? Walls of text? Remember, if you want to put out an eBook, keep paragraphs short. "Normal" length paragraphs can fill an entire eReader screen.
We have editors on here so one of them can talk about that process.
I'll tell you, this time around, I went back and edited the previous day's work before I wrote for the day. It helped on many levels. One in particular is that my proof read after I finished wasn't such a task this time. However, the person doing my first beta read found like 6 errors in the first 39 pages. I would never have found them.
Everyone has their own system, these are just my suggestions. I remember hearing of a WORD add on that will grade your writing but danged if I can think of it at the moment.
You're almost there!
Splitter
Well, an editor proofreads and makes sure the words are in the right context, like if the word is meant to be "rein" and the spellchecker didn't catch it because it's spelled "reign". We check the flow of the story, make suggestions on some changes, etc. Our fresh set of eyes may catch something you've read over so many times that you miss it.I can't speak for the others but I use the barter system as payment for editing. I go by word count so say I'm editing a book that's 80,000 words, I ask that the author buy me 2 physical books from my Amazon wishlist and 2 ebooks from here, Smashwords, or Amazon.
You might want to talk to Splitter or Barb, definitely another author because I know very little about having an agent and publishing house vs. self-publishing.
No need to be sorry for asking questions! We're all here to help one another and make new friends. Books are wonderful companions that draw us into a larger circle. :)
Welcome to Creative Reviews, Frank!
See, there's our Splitter! I knew he'd be able to help!
I just talk a lot, Sara lol.Names are another problem. Do a spellcheck on common errors you might have made when typing a name. I have several names in my newest book that are always "errors" with (US English) spellcheck so I can't just look for red squiggles.
You can kill a whole evening just doing spellcheck! lol
But you'll feel better.
Splitter
First thanks! Now on my open office, probably word too, I can hit the add button for words like names or fancy words you don't use too often. Then they don't come up as squiggles any more. That lets me concentrate on finger/brain stutters and just outright wrong spelling. It helps because I am kind of weird with those damn red lines. They distract me and I literally can not start the next sentence till they are fixed.
Run your doc through WORD too, btw. It catches things Open Office won't and the other way around. I LIKE Open Office, but I have to say that WORD helped me more with writing. Like an author we both know, I am addicted to an older version: 2003 and can't change now lol.
Splitter
Glad that you talk a lot, Splitter! You share a lot of knowledge that someone of us don't have and I, for one, appreciate it!I use Word 2010, I made sure it was installed when I bought this new laptop back in June. :) It might have made the laptop cost more but it is soooo worth it!
OK, the writing/editing part has been covered by Sara and Splitter, so I'll try to answer the other questions. I'm an indie author, but before going indie I did research the market. And I might look for a trad publisher whenever I tackle my historical novel (my first in that field, and temporary shelved because I'm not happy with it).Agent Query and other sites (will give you a list if you need them) are the best places to look for either an agent (you'll definitely need one if you want to get into the Big 6) or a small publisher - most of those accept unagented writers, but DO check and follow their submission guidelines.
And yes, I know, in this brand new world of virtual publishing and internet there's everything and its opposite, it's hard to find the solution that works for YOU! -)
Happy writing
Barb
Yo! What I will say, is don't look at everything at once or you'll be overwhelmed by it. Do one thing at a time and it's much more manageable.
First things first; whatever form of publishing you intend to go by, you need to present them with a really polished text. Myself, when I've finished the first draft, I print it off and read it through correcting and tweaking as I go and keeping a list of bits that need rewriting or adding in.
Once you've input all those corrections, find someone who is a total (and I mean OCD-level) word pedant (bonus if they write themselves). Get them to read it through and tell you where the holes in logic are, the bits that are unclear, all that sort of stuff (and there will be those bits so don't worry). Go through, consider what they say, and adjust as necessary.
I go through and cut whatever does not actively need to be in (I think I put most of my tips on the first post of the writing tips thread but mail me if you have queries). This stings but helps the pace.
I use 2 different editors; one who's good at story arc and gaps in logic etc, and the other who is excellent at use of language, repeated words etc. I'm lucky as both are friends who do it as a job in their spare time; I think if you know people who have a flair for language and story-telling they don't necessarily need to be professionals but there are different opinions on this. What I do know is that it is important to have someone cast a second pair of eyes over the text because you already know what you mean so there may be places where it's unclear to others but seems clear to you (or at least there is in my stuff!)
Once it's polished and formatted and ready for publication, you need to decide whether to go via trad-publishing or self-publishing or use self-pub to generate a track record to get into self-pub.
That's a decision only you can make, and my suggestion is to read all around both and see which appeals. I self-published and I absolutely love it; it's a lot of work but I'm led to believe it's not actually that much more work than trad-pub on the publicity front, and you get better royalties and more control; suits me.
As far as trad-pub goes, as far as I can see, the big publishers are only taking on celebs and reality TV stars and have really bad reputations anyhow (anyone with them know better?) so the smaller companies are the ones to look at as many of them have extremely good reps and good personal relationships with their clients.
Another vital site to check when submitting to publishers is the good guy / bad guy list on http://pred-ed.com/
which might look a bit shonky but is a central list of publishers who authors have had good or bad experiences with - and vitally, publishing houses that actually turn out to be vanity presses. (Basically if they ask you for money, get out of there at the hurry-up!).
The Writers' & Artists' Yearbook is also a useful resource.
If you want my advice (and you may not) I'd suggest:
if you can't decide which path to take, check out a few of the smaller presses that have published books in your genre and probably already have some kind of appropriate audience. Buy a couple of their books and check they are to the standard you want your books to be. Then get in touch and ask them to have a look or submit according to their guidelines.
I'd be inclined to publish it as an ebook first anyway because if you have a following and it sells you're in a much better place to bargain than if you have no idea whether it will sell or not, and they do say that agents and publishers are now sitting up and paying attention to self-pubbed stuff for that very reason.
Also, I've learnt so, SO much from the feedback and reviews here that will guide me to hopefully make the paperback and subsequent books much better than they would have been otherwise.
For me, self-pubbing has been a fantastic opportunity to get my stuff out there, get some opinions on it and fine-tune my writing style going forward. It might not be for everyone (and a lot of that is down to whether or not you feel the need for the "validation" of having been picked up by a publishers, or whether you are confident enough to say "This is my stuff! Tell me what's good and what's bad about it!" and take the feedback in a sensible manner whether they love or hate it.
As for me, I've absolutely loved self-pubbing so obviously I think it's a great way to go, but I know others who prefer trad-pub and others who are using it as a stepping stone to trad-pub. Talk to authors who do each and ask what the good / bad parts are, maybe; then you can decide what fits best with your own personality, and go with that.
JAC
Thank you everyone for taking the time to help out. I appreciate your thoughts.
Just thought I'd add a link to Dean Wesley Smith's post on agents and how useless they are at the moment...http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=5480
Frankinnj-First off, congrats on your soon to be finished novel! Don't be shocked you actually finished it, be proud! I know there's a little of that "holy crap" feeling though. An "I can't believe I did it" feeling. :)
Your definitely in the right place to gather opinions and experience in this field. A lot of us here have a bunch of different experiences to bring to the table and there is a lot of knowledge in this group.
I myslef, have some experience in writing/publishing. My debut novel comes out in December and its through a publisher. Its a small publisher out of KY. I have been writing for many years and I have been looking for an agent or publisher seriously for almost 3 years now.
You have to ask yourself what you want out of your career as a writer and also what your lonng and short term goals are about writing. I think that will help decide whats best for you.
There are a lot of positive and negatives toward both sides of publishing and i have a lot of respect for them both. I chose to go traditional pub. because I wanted that help with distibution and formating and to take care of all the printing details. I also wanted a company behind my book to help guide me with marketing and such. I will say that bc my pubisher is very small that a lot of the marketing falls to me and thats okay, i don't mind the work.
Self publishing can be really great too (i thought about it seriously) but everything falls to you. If you like the challenge of formatting and designing covers then go for it! you get all the control and say what goes on with your book. Its a lot of work, but traditional publishing is too.
An agent can be helpful, they can sell your book to one of the big publishing houses and they handle the deal and the money side and everything. But let me caution you (this is from experience and research) Agents are very difficult to get. Especially for new writers especially with the market the way it is now. Agents want a sure sell, they want a name that will sell. I tried to get an agent for two years.... I have an entire stack of rejections letters to my name. That isn't to say it isnt possible because it is.
If you want your book in a bigger publishing house you have to have an agent. These houses won't even look at a MS that doesn't come from a agent (yeah, i tried that too).
If you think you want to go traditional publishing with a smaller house then you can submit to them without an agent all you need is a really good Query letter and sometimes a synopsis. Make sure you have a very clear idea of what genre your book is and who will be reading it. Then you won't waste time querying a publishing house (or agent) that doesn't handle the type of book you have written.
As far as editing. In my humble opinion this is not optional, its a must. Even if you are self publishing you need a good editor. A good editor will ensure you put out the best kind of book you can, and thats what you want as well: a quality read. Editing does cost money. but its worth it. There are editors out there who don't charge an arm and a leg that are great.
My personal editor is a moderator of this group. Amy. http://www.theeyesforediting.com
There are different kinds of editing. Content, which is more thorough and makes sure your plot is tight and solid and helps tighten the dialogue and overall content of the book. Then there is us copy editing, where just grammar, puncuation, and verb tense are checked.
I am not a professional editor so talk to one to find out more.
i would also suggest a Beta reader. Someone who can read your story to point out errors or plot holes because after you have read that book so many times you cease to see the errors.
I apologize for the length of my reply I try not to leave long replies like this for fear of making peoples eyes cross. But this is a topic i could talk about for days.
Really it comes down to how you want your writing to go and what you are comfortable with. Its a personal decision but there are a lot of options and no one is the perfect one.
Best of luck to you.
and stick around the group, we are brimming with advice!! lol.
See this is why I love this place. The link was great Barbara and the lengthy reply is just what I needed Cambria.
I was talking to Splitter, again the man I owe thanks to for steering me here, and I am a little scared.
Were you guys, (Please forgive the masculine form, people sounds a bit impersonal to me) terrified about your first? Out of the gutter Splitter. :)
People always said I had a talent, but I was the guy who perked up in Lit class and snored through English. Some days I go over what I wrote and think, "Wow that was some great writing there!" The next day I read stuff from some one else and think, "How the hell am I going to match what is out there already?"
It is almost as if I have a bi-polar thing going with the way I feel about my writing. Is that normal? I am NOT bi-polar in life thank goodness.
Also if I can ask one technical question, when you have a character who thinks something to himself/herself in the book, (I.E. Okay Jon you can do this, he thought to himself.) Do you put the words in italics, quotations, etc.? I have seen it done both ways and was wondering if there was an accepted method.
And in case I haven't said it enough, Thank you for the time and general niceness to a newb here.
I was talking to Splitter, again the man I owe thanks to for steering me here, and I am a little scared.
Were you guys, (Please forgive the masculine form, people sounds a bit impersonal to me) terrified about your first? Out of the gutter Splitter. :)
People always said I had a talent, but I was the guy who perked up in Lit class and snored through English. Some days I go over what I wrote and think, "Wow that was some great writing there!" The next day I read stuff from some one else and think, "How the hell am I going to match what is out there already?"
It is almost as if I have a bi-polar thing going with the way I feel about my writing. Is that normal? I am NOT bi-polar in life thank goodness.
Also if I can ask one technical question, when you have a character who thinks something to himself/herself in the book, (I.E. Okay Jon you can do this, he thought to himself.) Do you put the words in italics, quotations, etc.? I have seen it done both ways and was wondering if there was an accepted method.
And in case I haven't said it enough, Thank you for the time and general niceness to a newb here.
Ahh if i had a dime for evertime someone called me bi-polar I would be rich!! lol. thats the creative side in you coming out. at least thats what i tell myself. I have days that I sit to edit and end up reading the story instead and smile and think "this is good stuff" then there are the "I will never get anywhere!" and "Why do I bother!" days. Right now I am writing the fourth book in my latest series and I keep thinking "How will this book ever live up to the last one?" Its the process. Just stick with it. For every bad day there will be great ones. The great ones are worth the bad ones. ;)
as far as the technical question: i always do that with italics. but whatever way you choose be consistent! that way it will look intention in the book and it will flow.
As far as being scared-- yup. that happens a lot. i doubt myself alot too about stuff. mine doesn't come out til December but i sweat it everyday. lol. but you know, do the best you can and make informed decisions and just go with your gut. at the end of the day at least you tried.
And when you are wondering how your stuff measures up to what's out there, remember that your first draft aand your finished, polished text are two entirely different beasts. My first draft was very verbose and flabby (just like me, heheheh) but thanks to the keen scalpels of 2 vicious editors, all the unnecessary has been cut out and it's much tighter now. All you can do is make it as good as you possibly can and then put it out there. After all, if I'm reading, what I want to know is what happens next. I'm not sitting there thinking "Well I quite like this author but Agatha Christie would have written it better".
People don't compare in the way that we all tend to think they do. They just want a gripping story and a good "voice" and characters they can care about. If you have at least the seeds of all those, that's a pretty good start for the first draft of your first novel!!
Besides, as Cambria says, congratulations! You've got further already than a lot of people will ever get.
JAC
I admit I started writing when there was no internet... so I can't remember much of that! ;-) OK, I'm old, so what? :-DI started POD publishing my graphic novels in 2009 and when I received my first copy I was like "Whoa, did I really do that?" the colors were so bright and all... and then January of this year I uploaded the first novella on Smashwords (Jessamine) and now I wish I hadn't because I want to rewrite it, haha! But I won't do it yet, it's a project for 2013...
Don't be afraid, kill self-doubt and keep writing! :-)
I think that if you ever get to the point where you stop worrying about the story being good enough and whether people will like it, that's the time to move on to something else.Splitter
Here's how I do it, and it seems to get decent results.Finish first draft.
Let it sit. I give mine a month to six weeks, but however long it takes for you to completely disengage from the work, so that when you read it again you see it with fresh eyes.
During that time start on your next project, study how to run a business, all the ins and outs of publishing, learn french, whatever, but do something that isn't your current novel.
Reread. Take many notes.
Rewrite.
One last re-read.
Bring in the beta reader team.
Have them read it, and get their opinions.
Re-write, keeping their comments in mind.
Now, sometime when you're doing this, you go find an editor. Depending on the comments of your betas, you might want a story editor (flow, plot, character development) or a line editor (grammar, word choice).
Send it out for edits.
Get it back, rewrite again.
At this point I'd let it rest one more time/give it to the gamma readers.
Proof read (this works better if you can hire out, but if your budget won't stretch, arrange some sort of swap.)
Begin agent hunting or publish.
Awesome, thanks. Now it is time to do house chores and decompress from work. The life of an exterminator takes a bit to decompress from trust me. Then to begin the assault on the last two chapters. When I am satisfied with the word count and quality for the day, it will be time for some Sangria and a well deserved weekend.
As a side note a bit off topic, if anyone ever needs any insect or pest issue questions answered I would be more than happy to answer your questions. I have been in the business for about 16 yrs. Just throwing it out there because with, bed bugs, stink bugs and whatever new invader tomorrow may bring, you never know. Just a way to say thanks for all the questions I have had answered here.
As a side note a bit off topic, if anyone ever needs any insect or pest issue questions answered I would be more than happy to answer your questions. I have been in the business for about 16 yrs. Just throwing it out there because with, bed bugs, stink bugs and whatever new invader tomorrow may bring, you never know. Just a way to say thanks for all the questions I have had answered here.
Thanks Frankinnj! I live in NC and the bugs here are insane. Spiders too.Oh and the flies!!!! Flies are sooo disgusting. They never go away. LOL.
Mod
Frankinnj wrote: "Also if I can ask one technical question, when you have a character who thinks something to himself/herself in the book, (I.E. Okay Jon you can do this, he thought to himself.) Do you put the words in italics, quotations, etc.? I have seen it done both ways and was wondering if there was an accepted method."I dont think this got answered?
How you wrote above is correct. Or.. you can do Okay Jon you can do this. just the thought in italics with no tag.
Of course part of me is wondering if it should be ..Okay, Jon. You can do this. But I've not had enough coffee yet this morning...
Best of luck to you!
When I'm doing the character thinking to himself, I use italics and no tag. But you can put it in quotes and use a tag as well. Both are correct. Just, whichever you use, use it the whole way through.
I'd write it: Okay, Jon, you can do this. But I've been known to use 300% more commas than are strictly necessary.
Love the questions and answers! Love the bipolar thing too: I think that's a precondition to being a writer / artist... No, it's not... Oh, yes it is... Sh, we're in public right now... Oh yeah...So thanks to all the Q&A!
Cambria wrote: "Thanks Frankinnj! I live in NC and the bugs here are insane. Spiders too.Oh and the flies!!!! Flies are sooo disgusting. They never go away. LOL."
This is something we can agree on, Cambria. I hate flies almost as much as I hate mosquitoes. Spiders have at least one saving grace -- they eat flies and mosquitoes.
Flies have no souls. Did you know that? They are the only creature on Earth that God didn't create. Satan did.
Jen wrote: "Frankinnj wrote: "Also if I can ask one technical question, when you have a character who thinks something to himself/herself in the book, (I.E. Okay Jon you can do this, he thought to himself.) Do..."Yeah, I threw an answer in there in one of my above books. lol.
:)
Trust me flies are nasty and an important vector of a lot of illness. But they are amazing in some aspects also, which most insects are in one way or another.
And I got the answer. Thanks, I thought italics would work and the idea obviously to keep it uniform was well heeded.
And I got the answer. Thanks, I thought italics would work and the idea obviously to keep it uniform was well heeded.
Flies have no souls! Love that - I'd add cockroaches to the 'no soul' list though. Ick. But chameleons, now they rock (and they eat all the souless insects they can stuff in). Kenyans for some reason are afraid of them though, and I can't figure out why. I think it's something to do with the independently moving eyeballs.
Mod
BAH HA HA HA!!!
I think this is a topic for a whole new thread!! LOL
Any advice for someone who is about to finish their first book, the getting the story down phase at least?
It is a bit daunting especially since I have no idea what to do next. Well I do have an idea it goes something like this, rewrite, edit, rewrite.
I have kept up with grammar and spelling as best as I can. As I have gone along, I have kept a list of changes that I want to focus on, namely making the conversations flow a bit more naturally, adding in a character, and rewording the first few chapters which seem.... self conscious? for lack of a better word.
Here is the crux of my problem, there is so much info out there, I feel a bit buried beneath it and don't know where to start. Take editors as an example. What exactly does an editor do? What is a fair price? What the heck do I after that? If I want to try a publishing house before trying self publishing do I really need an agent?
Seemingly simple questions but each day I find another page with another opinion and it is driving me nuts. I should be done with writing the story out in about 10 days, if I stick to my schedule, and as I am trying to digest the plethora of often conflicting advice, I feel at a loss.
Sorry if some of those questions seem childish, I think part of me never really believed I would write the story, lol. Now that it is apparent that I am going to do it, barring any unforeseen acts of God or my own stupidity, I could use some advice if anyone has the time or inclination to give it.