~ 21st Century Sci-Fi Series ~

[John]

This is the start of a list of ongoing series. Please only post unfinished series of books. If you know when the release date is for the next in the series please post that as well.

[John]

Troy Rising by John Ringo

Sub Genre:Military Sci-Fi
Anticipated Number of books in series: 5
Number Published: 3

Read Order:
Live Free or Die
Citadel
The Hot Gate

[John]

The Lost Fleet by Jack Campbell

Sub genre:Military Sci-Fi
Anticipated Number of Books in series:12
Number Published:7

Read Order:
The Lost Fleet: Dauntless
The Lost Fleet: fearless
The Lost Fleet: courageous
The Lost Fleet: valiant
The Lost Fleet: relentless
The Lost Fleet: victorious

The story continues but is now a renumbered in the sub-series:

The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier

The Lost Fleet: Dreadnaught


Upcoming The Lost Fleet: Invincible Sometime in 2012

[Laz]

CJ Cherryh's "Foreigner" Series - tends to be in trios, 13 so far, with no end in sight.

Foreigner - First book

Series page: http://www.goodreads.com/series/40807...

[Laz]

John wrote: "Troy Rising by John Ringo

Sub Genre:Military Sci-Fi
Anticipated Number of books in series: 5
Number Published: 3

Read Order:
Live Free or Die
Citadel
The Hot Gate"

John, the links for the first two books listed go to the wrong authors...

[Marjorie]

Since you started this with a Ringo series, John, let's try my #1 favorite Ringo series:

Paladin of Shadows (Ghost/Kildar) by John Ringo

Anticipated Number of books in series: 10
Number Published: 5

Ghost (Paladin #1)
Kildar (Paladin #2)
Choosers of the Slain (Paladin #3)
Unto the Breach (Paladin #4)
A Deeper Blue (Paladin #5)

Lots of good world-building in Ringo's creation of the Keldaran people in this series. It's a mix of alternate reality milfic with a bit of Ringo-esque fantasy thrown in (okay, lots of Ringo-esque fantasies in the blowjobs every 5 pages but you can skim past those to get to the real fantasy-genre stuff ;-))

[mark, personal space invader]

i had a really tough time with the first in this series (Ghost) and pretty much loathed it. although i've read that the series improves as it goes on.

[Laz]

Oh my, Marjorie, I didn't think a woman would like Ghost/Kildar. These books have always been a guilty pleasure of mine. So many things that are so wrong they're right. There isn't much "alternate" in this fiction, if you believe the world press.

I'm not sure Ringo is going to write more in this series...

[Marjorie]

Laz wrote: "Oh my, Marjorie, I didn't think a woman would like Ghost/Kildar. These books have always been a guilty pleasure of mine. So many things that are so wrong they're right. There isn't much "alterna..."

Laz, I am FAR from the only female fan of that series and yes, the main character, Mike "Ghost" Harmon is like a cartoon caricature of everything wrong in men. Plus there were all the author-wish-fulfillment fantasies John could possibly think of putting in there. He got all his wishes to come true with those books ((grin))

You know, there were a lot of men blushing and otherwise doing the "Oh, my!" at the utterly basic sex in that series as though it were oh-so-risque. The women readers weren't as flustered as the straight-laced men, TBH.

Me, personally, I was LOL at most of this series. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously but I guess some people didn't realize that. John kept talking about "all the sex" but there wasn't really much of it. I think his vanilla fans were just "shocked" by anything other than Missionary position once a week indoors with the lights out sytle sex (smirk) Mostly, the book had male-fantasy style quickie BJs every 5th page. Even those weren't explicitly well-done, he just zoomed right past them. That's why it was tiresome after a while. I just skimmed past the obligatory BJs because the actual stories were amazing!

John said on his Baen's Bar forums that (originally) he planned out 10 books in the series but when he finished Unto the Breach (probably his #1 best book ever written!) he felt so drained, it was a struggle to get through the lighter, somewhat-comedic A Deeper Blue. He moved onto 2 other series after ADB and planned to come back to this series but so far, only we fans keep wisting for it.

I think the world-building was amazing, too, but yeah, the "alternate" reality that came true is kind of fun to read about in retrospect.

-Friday
@phoenicianbooks

[mark, personal space invader]

i can't speak for the rest of the series of course, but i read Ghost fairly recently. the book is divided in 3 parts. in the first there is no sex but a lot of opinionating on women. in the second, the entire first two-thirds is essentially a penthouse forum letter. it is all sex and concerns the hero's training of two co-eds into the world of s&m. in the third, there are a few sex scenes, the most eggregrious one being an extended sequence where the hero repeatedly rapes & brutalizes a 15-year old eastern european whore. disturbing, to say the least.

[Marjorie]

mark wrote: "i read Ghost fairly recently. the book is divided in 3 parts. in the first there is no sex but a lot of opinionating on women."

And low opinions, right? borderline mysoginistic, but so over the top ridiculous, it had me LOL. I guess the book wasn't meant for intelligent women to read it? :)

in the second, the entire first two-thirds is essentially a penthouse forum letter. it is all sex and concerns the hero's training of two co-eds into the world of s&m.

Actually, it's a parody of S&M training and is such a ludicrous bit of prose, I doubt even Penthouse would publish it. Okay, maybe Penthouse, but not Playboy ;-)

in the third, there are a few sex scenes, the most eggregrious one being an extended sequence where the hero repeatedly rapes & brutalizes a 15-year old eastern european whore. disturbing, to say the least.

This is the section of the book where males the world over were "Shocked, I tell you. Just shocked." Except that a 15 yo female whore is there to supply MEN (which was precisely the point Ringo himself said he was trying to make--these girls wouldn't have been trafficked in to this kind of slavery if men everywhere didn't create the demand for them - supply and demand, has a funny way of actually working!)

I dunno, I didn't find the brutality of the hero's behavior as brutal as most male readers do. I suppose it comes from being female and knowing that 90% of us in the USA have been raped and/or sexually assaulted at least once in our lives. This is the unspoken reality of life as a woman--even in the 21st century. It's sad, outrageous, entirely wrong but reality.

Ringo wrote about it in a way to make men "wake up." Females seemed to understand the point he was making. And I don't think the hero in the book was nearly as much of "a bad man" as he claimed to be. In his head, the motive of violence wasn't there. Rape is defintiely NOT about sex. It's about violence and power--the taking away of power. If the power is given (as in a whore who is paid to give it) then it cannot be taken. That's the paradox of prostitution. Who's commiting the greater wrong?

Ringo wasn't trying to make a statement on morality, but he sure got a lot of people (men mostly) thinking about their own! To me, a book that can make readers do self-examination in a heartfelt way like that on a subject sooooo serious as human trafficking is a HUGE success. I can't endorse Ghost more than I do. It's a 5-star book (though definitely tongue-in-cheek and hilarious in its absurdity). If you take it seriously, you'll be tempting madness ;-)

-Friday
@phoenicianbooks

[Laz]

In some ways, Ghost/Mike is similar to John Rain in Barry Eisler's books. He's so intense and so dangerous that his bad behavior is acceptable...? He has a Code, it just may not be a moral one. This is explored further in the later books. The Kildaran women are strong!
If two beautiful women come on to your boat and say "Please spank me and fuck me hard," you say YES! (ref Ghostbusters). It's fantasy (in that it's unbelievable), so I read it as James Bond taken to the absurd. Could I be him? No. But it's interesting to ask yourself the question. As with Atticus Kodiak and John Rain, I enjoyed reading about the adventures, taking the good with the bad.

[Marjorie]

Laz wrote: "In some ways, Ghost/Mike is similar to John Rain in Barry Eisler's books. [...] It's fantasy (in that it's unbelievable), so I read it as James Bond taken to the absurd. "

James Bond to the extreme, great description, but you forgot the part where I'm LMAO at how extremely ridiculous it is. Entertainment to the extreme :)

I've never read or heard of Barry Eisler so now I'll have to check him out. Thanks, Laz.

-Friday
@phoenicianbooks

[mark, personal space invader]

And low opinions, right? borderline mysoginistic, but so over the top ridiculous, it had me LOL. I guess the book wasn't meant for intelligent women to read it? :)

well, i will begrudgingly admit that it was pretty hysterical to read. enjoyably so. i laughed a lot, felt a bit guilty, then laughed some more.

This is the section of the book where males the world over were "Shocked, I tell you. Just shocked." ... This is the unspoken reality of life as a woman--even in the 21st century ... Ringo wrote about it in a way to make men "wake up." Females seemed to understand the point he was making.

this is a very interesting point you are making, Marjorie. i'm not sure i agree, but it is definitely food for thought. i do agree that - at least here on GR - the reaction between male & female readers was striking.

[mark, personal space invader]

He has a Code, it just may not be a moral one. This is explored further in the later books.

from what i've read, the latter books are quite different, and Ghost is somewhat softened.

i didn't find the second part of the book (sexytime on the yacht) to be offensive in terms of gender. race, yes, but gender - no. i did find it to be terribly written.

as far as the extended rape & brutalization scene of the kid in the third part... i wish i could un-read that somehow. but it is lodged in my mind, like certain disturbing images from different films like Blue Velvet. the part where he punches the girl in the kidneys to force anal sex just jumps in my mind whenever i think about that scene, and i feel nauseated. hell, i feel vaguely nauseated right now just writing about it!

but now i'm also coming back to Marjorie's point about "writing it in a way to make men wake up". i don't know how true that is in terms of Ringo's original intent... but it is fascinating to contemplate. it certainly created a strong reaction in me, obviously.

[Marjorie]

mark wrote: "but now i'm also coming back to Marjorie's point about "writing it in a way to make men wake up". i don't know how true that is in terms of Ringo's original intent... but it is fascinating to contemplate. it certainly created a strong reaction in me, obviously. "

That's what John, himself, claimed (quietly and only once or twice) in the midst of a flurry of discussion about the book back in 2005, 2006 over on the Baen Books forum, Baen's Bar. His forum, Ringo's Tavern, is 90% or more male, mostly former or active military and these guys are typical of the guys in the books. They use whores, always have, but never ever think of the girls as girls let alone as someone's daughter or sister or even more simply, as people.

John enjoyed the flurry of discussion but stopped talking about why he wrote the book since everyone was so outraged and no one wanted to hear his motivations anyway. He flatly stated Ghost was intended to be a joke and never be published. The discussion flared up when Kildar came out and even more so when Choosers hit the shelves. Choosers is more about the sex trafficking of Eastern Europe, including the very real snuff house industry.

He was glad to have gotten such a heated reaction from such a relevant audience. I can definitely understand why. As an author myself, I can't imagine a better result for my book than to have it spark a heated debate on morality. I have a totally different sort of human trafficking in Conditioned Response - male slaves who are designed to be slaves and programmed/brainwashed to be unaware of their indentured status. Of course, being human and being male, they become aware and they're not happy about it ;-)

I think any book, esp. a science fiction book, has to at some point touch on the human need to "own" other humans. I have no clue why we (as a species) seem to feel this need but we've had it for thousands of years (if not tens of thousands). It's not new. It won't go away in another 100 years and if we get ourselves out into space to colonize other worlds, I'm pretty much 100% positive we shall take slavery with us. It's part of our species psyche. An ugly and bad part, but then, so is murder, greed, and a myriad of other failings of our species.

Wow are we ever OFF topic on this thread!! Great discussion but I do apologize for my part in derailing this original discussion about 21st century books. See? Ringo's Ghost/Kildar books spurred a discussion to derail without his even being here! Effective books :)

-Friday
@phoenicianbooks

[mark, personal space invader]

off-topic is fine by me, good discussion is alway welcome.

and thanks for the exceedingly interesting context behind and around Ghost!

[Marjorie]

Human trafficking is, as I said, a really personal pet peeve of mine! I get intensely passionate discussing it in any context or at any level. That's why I always put it into my writing, too. I need to vent all those little words on the subject somehow.

[Laz]

OK, I'll add my own recent favorites (in addition to the C.J. Cherryh mentioned above):
Code of Conduct by Kristine Smith (4 book series)
Hammered by Elizabeth Bear (3 books)
Diving Into the Wreck by Kristin Rusch (3 books)
This Is Not a Game by Walter Jon Williams (2 books)