A Discovery of Witches - Discussion

[PM]

Oh, I am sure it will be explained or become clear! I've been doing some quick research on the stages of making the Philosopher's Stone. Do you remember,(I don't have the book right now),did Diane or witches in general or anyone else in the book smell like sulfur?

[Lindsay]

Let's see..

In chapter 3 there's a line that says: "Something wasn't right. He'd sensed it from the first moment he saw Bishop in the library... This witch didn't give off the usual scents - henbane, sulfur, and sage."

[PM]

Well, I've been reading Faust and Dr Faustus and searching for alchemical symbols and I am coming up with nothing that links blood and mercury. I think I may have to give up and wait for the book! LOL

[Lindsay]

So I did some re-reading and hunting myself and this is what I've come up with:

Early in the book, mercury is mentioned in one of the alchemical "cookbooks" that Diana was studying and it says to seethe it over a flame as part of the alchemical marriage that is talked about a few more times throughout the book.

Mercury and sulfur are both critical components for the alchemical marriage to be completed and each one was represented by the white and dark figures from the page in Ashmole. There are trace amounts of sulfur in blood, so I'm going to assume that the blood is Diana's, possibly even Matthew's. Matthew makes mention of mercury poisoning being common among alchemists in 1590 along with very strong witches. Seeing as how Matthew is a vampire that needs to feed, perhaps its possible that he fed on someone with mercury poisoning and therefore the mercury is in his blood. It's possible that Diana is also exposed to Mercury given her interest in alchemy, so she likely has that in her blood as well.

Okay - so. The book doesn't specify that the blood and mercury are separate, it just says that there's blood and mercury and there's 2 drops of it. I'm guessing it's one drop of Matthew's blood and one drop of Diana's blood, both with mercury in them. Combined with the trace elements of sulfur, and the heat of the fire, it's the right condition for a "marriage" of sorts. Also, when the drops combine, the house sighs because it recognizes the scent of each of them - cinnamon for Matthew, and chamomile and honeysuckle for Diana (see chapter 12).

As to how they got to the house in the first place? The date on the book that Matthew left behind was 1594, 4 years after they were supposed to arrive in England. My guess is that upon reading the excerpt he pointed out for Sarah to read, he was reminded of Diana and thought it prudent to make some annotations (which he wouldn't have remembered making in the future because of the timewalking) and take some blood from the both of them and plant them back into the future to let everyone know they were okay. The book specifically said that there was no note for the ampulla and why it was there. So they probably managed to get it there somehow with the timewalking. Those details I'm sure will be explained. They'll have to be.

...Phew! Now I can go to bed!

[Mlpmom (Book Reviewer)]

Wow great detective work Lindsay!

[PM]

LOL! LOVE IT! I don't know why, but I had in my head that it was Dianna's blood in it. It could well be both. The presence of blood still confuses me though. Maybe you are right in the idea that the sulfur comes from the blood. Blood itself doesn't show up much in the alchemy stuff, except as the color of red sulfur.

Sulfur is needed for the chemical marriage, along with mercury, that was why I had asked about Dianna's smell.
"In alchemy, sulfur represents Sol, the fiery male element (the counterpart of Luna, mercury, the female element) of the Celestial marriage (conjunctio). Chemically, the red sulfur was a mixture of mercury (spirit) and sulfur (soul), the marriage of which also represented the spiritual goal of alchemical work. "

So from that, Sol, the sun, day, is MALE and sulfur. But isn't it Dianna that is sun and maybe sulfur but definitely female? Matthew as a creature of the night would be luna, mercury, but the female side? Definitely sulfur and mercury for the marriage.

Also,
"The elixir of life, also known as the elixir of immortality and sometimes equated with the philosopher's stone, is a legendary potion, or drink, that grants the drinker eternal life and/or eternal youth. Many practitioners of alchemy pursued it. The elixir of life was also said to be able to create life."
How vampires are created maybe, by drinking this elixer? Did someone playing around with making the philosopher's stone accidentally become the first vampire? Could that be how vampirism is spread - by drinking blood contaminated with the chemicals in the philosopher's stone?

Here is one version of what this elixer is made of-
"elixirs for immortality (mercury, sulfur, and the salts of mercury and arsenic are prominent)"

Quotes from Wikipedia, btw. LOL

[Lindsay]

Ohh, I like the idea of drinking blood contaminated with the philosopher's stone chemicals. That would certainly help to explain where the first vampire or creature came from to a point.

Oh god, when I read the last page of the book I immediately thought "That's Diana's blood... and Matthew's... mercury? What? Do vampires bleed mercury? That's ridiculous!" It hadn't occurred to me until last night that the blood might belong to both of them and not be separate drops of blood and mercury.

I do remember reading somewhere last night that sulfur, even the trace elements in blood, tend to burn a blood red color. Since Diana is well read in the art of alchemy, perhaps she understood this connection between sulfur and blood, or was at least familiar with it being a viable source of sulfur despite the small quantity. That, or Matthew's keen smell was able to detect it in their blood.

We don't know what the motivation is behind the drops of blood in the ampulla. There's a number of possibilities as I see it.

1. They wanted to send the blood to Diana's family as a token of relief to let them or the house know that they were okay.

2. Matthew wanted a sample of both of their blood in the ampulla to always remember the love they have for each other.

3. Maybe it was a plan for them to give Diana eternal life so that she would always be able to be with Matthew? So maybe they took the two drops and kept them as a "just in case shit hits the fan, maybe we can mix these two drops to make just enough elixir so that I don't die"

4. Maybe they realize that witch and vampire can't conceive normally and therefore need a small amount of the elixir to allow Diana's body to accept the conception of a child between them?

Personally, I like 1 and 4. I think it was done with a specific goal.

For now though, I think all this information we've put together is enough to keep me satisfied until the next book comes out. At least I can stop thinking about it so obsessively, LOL.

[PM]

OH WAIT!!!!! I didn't read your whole thing yet but I had to say this ASAP. MAYBE Dianna's blood has more sulfur in it than a human's blood would. Maybe that is why witches smell like sulfur!!!!!!

OK, OK, next thought, still not done reading your dissertation...
Maybe that action of the co-mingling witch blood, ie sulfur, and mercury, in a fire (with silver, though I don't know why yet) will make philosopher's stone elixir. Maybe to be removed from the fireplace and drunk or eaten by someone in the future?

OK so your #3 sort of fits what I said above. I do believe it all comes down to your #4 though, that somehow this allows Matthew and Dianna to conceive a child.

Thinking about this obsessively? LOL Not me! ;)

[Lady of the Lake]

Lindsay wrote: "So I did some re-reading and hunting myself and this is what I've come up with:

Early in the book, mercury is mentioned in one of the alchemical "cookbooks" that Diana was studying and it says to ..."


Can I just say "WOW!" that was quite the explanation!
AMAZING!

[Lindsay]

PM wrote: "OH WAIT!!!!! I didn't read your whole thing yet but I had to say this ASAP. MAYBE Dianna's blood has more sulfur in it than a human's blood would. Maybe that is why witches smell like sulfur!!!!..."

The idea that the house is storing the elixir for later is brilliant! The thought that the house would aid them in that way and potentially become a key player later on in the books is something that hadn't even crossed my mind, and I didn't pick up on the silver of the coffin as being a component of the elixir either. Very interesting indeed...

LOL I totally wrote a dissertation up there - I can't help myself. So many thoughts can't possibly be contained.

PS - I just pre-ordered the second book today. July can't get here fast enough!

[PM]

In case anyone is interested, the All Souls Trilogy facebook page is hosting a chapter-by-chapter book discussion for Discovery of Witches.
Chapters 5 and 6 start Tuesday at 8:30pm until Monday, March 19, 2012 at 11:30pm. I do not know what time zone that is.

I haven't joined in yet, but I think I will try it!

Here is a link:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/allsou...

I think you may have to join the facebook page first.

[Mlpmom (Book Reviewer)]

Thanks for posting this PM!

[PM]

Dear Everyone,
I plan to create 2 threads for Shadow of Night, (the second book in the All Souls Trilogy) right after it comes out Tuesday. One will be for discussing the first half of the book and the other for the last half, like I did for Succubus Revealed.
Hope it is good and that everyone comes to chat about it!

[Mlpmom (Book Reviewer)]

I can't wait to talk about it with others. I absolutely loved it!!

[Hilda]

I love this book and SON too but I am still stumped on Sophie's linage. How the hell can she be a daemon when her parents are witches? Am I missing something?

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

Correct me someone if I'm on the wrong track but I assumed that although it is forbidden different types of creatures can still produce children together. So couldn't Sophie be a throwback to a past ancestor sort of like a great grandmother could have red hair and it doesn't show up again for several generations?? Maybe one of the ancestors was a daemon?

[Jeann (Happy Indulgence)]

Hi everyone, I'm a little late to the game but I finally picked this up for a Buddy read the other week! After reading the blurb and various friend's reviews, I had different expectations for what it actually was. I thought it would have a mystery and focus on the history aspects and paranormal creatures, but really it is a huge romance book.

Lots of aspects of Diana and Matthew reminded me of Twilight a little TOO much though. I found so many comparisons between the two which I covered in my review here.

The time travel bit at the end was really fascinating though, and I'm hoping the second book is much better :D