Remembering 9/11, with HP?

[Old-Barbarossa]

Given that what is "good" is subjective, is the point that the initial poster hinted at not that escape and comfort can be gained from HP and by extension fantasy in general?
Without getting all Joseph Campbell about it, the fact that a great evil can be overcome by an unlikely hero is a key theme in myth also. It gives hope amongst other things.

[Audra]

I feel books,no matter what genre can help one travel(escape) to other places and maybe gain comfort or learn about other cultures and times.

[Old-Barbarossa]

Audra wrote: "I feel books,no matter what genre can help one travel(escape) to other places and maybe gain comfort or learn about other cultures and times."

I agree, but the genre of fantasy does tend to have more transparently "mythological" themes, that during times of great stress can be psychologically beneficial in a way that comedy or romance (as uplifting as they may be) are not.

[Audra]

I agree.

[Old-Barbarossa]

Audra wrote: "I agree."

What? Agreement?
Has the flame war ended and rational discussion commenced?
Shurely shome mishtake Mish Moneypenny...
Pop!
Tongue out of cheek...

[Chelsea]

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Oh, this is kind of a cross between fantasy/mythology, but the Percy Jackson & The Olympians series.

Also the Twilight Saga, Vampire Academy, and House of Night.

Definitley more modern than m..."

That's why we're constantly disagreeing. Your opinion of "good fantasy," is Twilight? My opinion of Twilight is just as negative as your opinion of Harry Potter.

I hope you keep an open mind and try Tolkein again in a few years. It sounds like you're really into YA right now, which is fine. You never know, when you start to branch out Tolkein might be the thing for you.


@ Old-Barbossa - AGREED.

[Old-Barbarossa]

Chelseabelle wrote: "@ Old-Barbossa - AGREED..."

Stop that...less agreement please.
Oh, I know: I thought LOTR was a pile of pants. 1 star max.
Ah, now I'm just messing.
My opinion doesn't matter.
I do get a bit nippy though when folk evangelically demand that I like something because they do, and imply that all other opinions (opinions mind) are wrong.
Read anything that works for you.

[Audra]

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Chelseabelle wrote: "@ Old-Barbossa - AGREED..."

Stop that...less agreement please.
Oh, I know: I thought LOTR was a pile of pants. 1 star max.
Ah, now I'm just messing.
My opinion doesn't ma..."

I personally am not a big fan of Classic literature, I keep trying it and just dont like it. I don't discourage people from reading it. I also only like certain biography books but some people may not like the same ones I do.

[Audra]

I meant classic like The Scarlet Letter.

[Audra]

I read Island of the Blue Dolphins at a time when I loved anything with an animal in it. I haven't read the others.

[Shélah]

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Witchcraft=bad, horrible people who are using "magic" to sometimes harm other people. Sound familiar? Only replace "magic" with "bombs".

Bad people coming back and back...
No matter how many terrorists they lose, those terrorists always regenerate. It's really sad. "

It seems fairly obvious from this that you neither understand the principles of witchcraft (which is a far cry from Satanism), nor how far removed Harry Potter is from actual Wicca or paganism. If you do in fact understand the difference, then you are indeed making a very far leap from one to the other.

[Audra]

I agree Shelah that they are not the same, my boyfriend's cousin is pagan and I have friends who are wiccan and it isn't the same.

[Shélah]

It also seems fair to say that any religion, cult, belief system, etc. can be very bad when taken to the extreme, be it Islam, Christianity, Wicca, etc. In fact, that may very well have been one of the points Rowling was trying to make: no matter what belief system you follow, there are people that will choose an extreme and problematic path - all major religions have blood on their hands.

[Johnna]

Goran wrote: ""I was pointing out that there is a very big difference between war and terrorism. Something that is obviously beyond your comprehension.
9/11 was not an act of war by any definition. It was purely..."

Goran, (don't know if you're going to reads this but.. anyway...) it doesn't matter what caused 9/11. It's the lives that were lost that mattered. I understand that 9/11 may not have been the most disasterous event in the world. But the numbers don't matter. It wouldn't have mattered if only 100 people had died. People died. People, not any different from you or I or anyone else. It's awful that you trivialized the loss of human life to argue a point. No, I have never seen real war or a real terror attack, but we're talking about life. I can never imagine having a person I know die and die because of another person. Human life is human life.

Sorry, (People who aren't Goran) to bring this point up again.

[Shélah]

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "All right? Well HP wasn't made to BE 9/11, I'm just showing possible connections, trust me I'm not saying they are the SAME EXACT thing. "

I wasn't implying that you were saying any such thing. I was merely trying to point out that these so called "connections" appear to be based on a very poor understanding of not only witchcraft, but the book itself. Obviously you are entitled to believe what you want, and to make whatever connections make sense to you. But they seem awfully bizarre and random to me (perhaps it's just me, though, so maybe I'm the one who's looped.

Johnna: I think the point that Goran was trying to make was that for those of us that aren't American, the events of 9/11 really don't matter. I think about 24 Canadians died, and that's probably a bigger percentage of our population than the number of Americans, but in the grand scheme of things, the rest of the world doesn't really care. It was awful, (and probably even more awful if it was the American government who was responsible), but comparatively, it was pretty insignificant EXCEPT to those people who were directly impacted, and perhaps to the USA as a whole. Certainly it was a large enough event to impact the entire country. It just didn't impact the rest of the world in the same way (if at all), and the continued discussion about how it was an earth changing event is an insult to people who are faced with much larger losses on a daily basis. This isn't to say that the lives lost didn't/don't matter, nor to minimize the trauma and terror that these acts created, and I certainly would never imply that Americans (and certainly not the individual families) should get over it. I also don't think it's fair to say that Goran (or anyone) was trivializing human life as it's fairly difficult to read anyone's intentions in a forum such as this. I imagine he was as frustrated as the rest of us who are barraged by 9/11 speak, and merely trying to make certain individuals see the point he was trying to make.

Edit: PerhapsI shouldn't try to speak for other people, though.

[Christine]

Please stop turning this discussion into an attack on the US. This is about whether or not they helped you. Please don't slam people because that is just plain ignorant about what really went on that day. If you're not disgusted with what happened I have nothing more to say.

[Christine]

Whatever I don't want to get in a fight when it's just a silly discussion board. Believe what you want to believe, many people would beg to differ.

[Tim]

Goran, i completely agree with your opinions of American warmongering and imperialism, but, and this is the important thing, when you get all up in peoples faces on a random thread on goodreads of all places, you don't do yourself any favors, all you accomplish is making yourself look like a complete TOOL.

[Jessica]

Interesting thought Old-Barbarossa. I totally believe in a balance in life and when there is great tragedy in our realities, it wouldn't surprise me that something beautiful and fantastical will emerge to help us cope. I don't know about post WW1 but I do feel that HP happened at almost the perfect time. And in the end, despite all the sacrifice and trial, HP survived and rose to be the victor. What better metaphor for us in the year that we defeat Bin Laden?

[Christine]

Johnna wrote: "Goran wrote: ""I was pointing out that there is a very big difference between war and terrorism. Something that is obviously beyond your comprehension.
9/11 was not an act of war by any definition..."

Thank you! Finally somebody!

[Shélah]

Sorry Marie, but just because somebody agrees with you does not make you right (also, the comment you have pointed out as "finally" saying what you wish somebody would was before either mine or Goran's latest comment - which I see has been deleted). Beyond which, this thread had been left alone for nearly two weeks when you decided to come back and start it up again.

I do agree with Tim that being aggressive and apearing to lack compassion in this venue is probably not the best way to get your point across. But that does not mean it isn't a point that shouldn't be made.

[Christine]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and it's as simple as that.

[Shélah]

Marie wrote: "Everyone has a right to their own opinion and it's as simple as that."

I don't recall saying anything to the contrary. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, as is Goran, and myself. Your statement that we can think what we want - while at the same time telling whomever that their/our opinions are attacks agains the US and to please stop it - but that many people would beg to differ is a non-argument. I'm sure many Americans would beg to differ, but on a global scale, Americans are in the minority.

[Jessica]

I believe we've gone enough off track of the discussion and perhaps should get back to what the member wanted to talk about.

All of this is non-argument because it has nothing to with the thread. Do you feel as is HP helped you through 9/11? End of story.

Like I wrote in previous posts, I believe that HP came at a time where people needed something to grasp, a tangible example of hope and optimism. I certainly became engrossed in HP at the time and have followed it to its end this summer, with the final release of Part II. Whether Rowling intended to or not, there are things that happen in life that are just eerily harmonious and for me, at least, HP was one of them.

[Nathan]

Kristen wrote: "Goran wrote: "No I can't, cause I don't know the kuran, but then I don't know the bible either, would you care to show me why they are wrong?"

I wouldn't mind a bit. But considering that every sin..."

Oh, really. That's what Jews say about the Torah, and the Muslims say about the Quran. Please don't say things like that. It's just plain mean.