Would Snape still be a Death Eater if not for Lily?

[Chelsea]

Do you think Snape would have stayed with the Death Eaters if Lily hadn't been killed by Voldemort? Or do you think he was a good person and would have eventually turned to the Order's side?

Was Snape a real hero, if he only did it because he loved Lily?

BTW.. Let's have some actual evidence in here please. You don't have to have page numbers, but cite actual parts of the book when you're arguing your case. :)

[Jazz]

I'm a huge Snape fan, I wanna say no. But, you can't ignore the fact that the only reason he did change sides was because Lily got killed. That's the rational part of me.

The fan in me argues the part in The Prince's Tale where he snapped at the former headmaster in the painting for calling Hermione a mudblood. So, maybe he didn't truly believe in the all the ish that the Death Eaters promoted. I sorta wanna say that he found a group of people that he easily fit in with, so he just followed them. And because of that, it's possible that he could have eventually pulled a Regulus Black

Like I said, I'm divided. I mean, yes he did only changed because of Lily. But I'm not sure how much love can really change a person's beliefs, if it can.

[Mickey]

I would say that love is usually the thing that saves most of us from being completely selfish beings. Snape isn't the exception to this. However, because his love was so concentrated on one person (as opposed to more diffuse) and he had such a rare talent for compartmentalizing his feelings, thoughts, reactions, (which made him the perfect triple agent) his love for Lily didn't have as profound an effect as it might have had for another man.

[Hina]

I've always seen Snape's love for Lily as something out of guilt or remorse, but not actually love because of what he did in his school days. Now, I think I might be a little biased since I'm a James supporter, but I think Snape would've stayed as a Death Eater. I think he was too far gone into the Dark Arts and called his only real friend, a 'mudblood'. He already picked a side and it was becoming a Death Eater...

[Kristen]

I don't think anything would have changed with him, if she hadn't died. Just for the fact that he became one in the first place. He already had Lily as a friend. I don't know that she felt anything more than friendship for him or ever would have, but he went over to Voldemort's side - or started to - while she was still his friend. And then after she wasn't, he still stuck to his path. Had he changed, she might have forgiven him and still been his friend.
It was only the fact that his actions sent Voldemort after her and got her killed that made him change his thinking. I think it was all guilt. Sure, he loved her, but not enough. He knew before he made the choice how she felt about it. But it was more important to him than she was, until it was too late.

Dani said Snape snapped at the painting for calling Hermione a mudblood, but I don't think it's because the term was always so offensive to him. He used it in the first place because he thought that way. I don't think he intended to use it in front of or especially in reference to Lily, but he did anyway. Because it was already in his thinking.
I think his aversion to the word later on is more of the same - guilt.

Don't get me wrong, I think snape is an awesome character. I love it when they're not who they seem to be, but he wasn't a very good person. He just did a few good things later in life.

[[deleted user]]

To be honest, I think he would remain a death eater. Without Lily, Snape would never have experienced love and "the good side." He hung around people who shared the same ideas he had while at Hogwarts, despite Lily's disapproval, and he was easily influenced by them. I think he would have stuck with the people he knew, because the people on the good side were people such as James and Sirius, who obviously made his life at school a living hell sometimes. I feel Snape would choose to be a Death Eater to stick with his "friends."

[Gretchen]

Yes but that just shows how the threads of our lives can easily change us.

[Adero]

Yes! The only reason he isn't one is because Voldemort started to hunt her down. He loved her and would do anything for her. Though, if she was still alive or never existed, Snape would be a deatheater no doubt.

[Jackie]

That's such a good question. Would he? I think he would. He really didn't have any love for the other people in the Order and fighting for Dumbledore. All his life, he wanted to be a death eater, and he holds grudges, which make it very hard for him to stop being a death eater for any long amount of time.
No, Snape would still be a death eater were it not for Lily.

[Chelsea]

Ok.. it seems like there is a general consensus that Snape most likely would have stayed on as a Death Eater, at least for some time.

SO my next question is.. since you all answered this so intelligently (that's not sarcasm.. these are really awesome responses)...(that wasn't sarcasm either)..

Would you call Snape a hero, even if his only motivation was regret/remorse/guilt for Lily being killed?

[Kristen]

I think so. A heroic act, despite motivation is still a heroic act.
He might not have been a wonderful person all his life, but towards the end of the series he was pretty brave.

[Gretchen]

Yes he was a hero. Even though he would probably have remained a death eater without Lilie's death he did not fortunately. I think the subsequent years changed him. He became good under Dumbledore's guidance. He was no longer the man he was and I am sure it was a struggle for him to return to Voldemort and play the part. I am sure it was a burden for him to have to kill Dumbledore as well.

On a side not from the start I have partially always loved Snape because I love Alan Rickman! He always plays such dastardly characters and then will surprise us with roles like in Sense and Sensibility where you can't help but love him.

[Mickey]

Chelseabelle wrote: "Ok.. it seems like there is a general consensus that Snape most likely would have stayed on as a Death Eater, at least for some time.

...Would you call Snape a hero, even if his only motivation was regret/remorse/guilt for Lily being killed?"

I don't think we decided that his only motivation was regret/remorse/guilt over Lily (I would say love was stronger, remember, he turned before Lily died), but why would that mean he wouldn't be a hero? Heroes are typically decided upon by their actions, not their motivations or the origins of their resolve.

[Yassmeen]

I think Snap became a good person when he loved Lily so without her death he would not turn to the other side_the order's, that means he ows her in an indirect way.

[J.D.]

I really don't think it matters. People see the error of their ways. It happens all the time, they get arrested, they go to jail, they come out and work with young people trying to stop them goin down the wrong path.
If it was in Snapes nature to be good, then it was always there. Lily's death was just a trigger.

[Hina]

Chelseabelle wrote: "Ok.. it seems like there is a general consensus that Snape most likely would have stayed on as a Death Eater, at least for some time.

SO my next question is.. since you all answered this so intel..."

Yeah, I kinda agree with Mickey. I guess Snape was a hero in some ways, but he also brought this onto everyone else as well. Snape did some very bad things in his life and I think he was set out to improve them. I still think that his continuous obsession for Lily was out of guilt and remorse though.

[Kristen]

Jdfield wrote: "I really don't think it matters. People see the error of their ways. It happens all the time, they get arrested, they go to jail, they come out and work with young people trying to stop them goin d..."

I don't think I'd call Snape 'good' just because he happened to do a few good things. He was acting out of guilt and atoning for the his 'sins'.
When he begged Dumbledore to keep Lily safe, he agreed to do "anything" in return.
I do think he grew to respect Dumbledore and that he definitely changed his mind about Voldemort, but I don't think that really makes him a definitive 'good' person. Maybe kind of decent, but he wasn't acting out of the need to do what was right. It was primarily guilt.

[Chelsea]

Mickey wrote: "Chelseabelle wrote: "Ok.. it seems like there is a general consensus that Snape most likely would have stayed on as a Death Eater, at least for some time.

...Would you call Snape a hero, even i..."

I agree with you. I kind of posted this question out of curiousity, because I had a conversation with someone a while back and their final say was that Snape did a heroic thing, but was not a hero, because he did not do it for the greater good, or to really save the people he was saving. His argument was that BECAUSE he loved lily so much, his sense of remorse and regret were so great that he had to devote his entire life to doing something he didn't really believe in or want to do to alleviate that guilt. Hense, he did a heroic thing, but he didn't do it to do a heroic thing, he did as repentance.

That was his argument.

Mine is the same as yours. I agree that Snape LOVED Lily. I think that made his feeling of loss and regret so great that he devoted his life to protecting Harry, the only remaining piece of Lily left. I think love and remorse and guilt can coincide and indeed feed each other. I think that makes him a hero, because he overcame an obstacle (his own personal bias; he sacrificed the people and the cause that he originaly identified with) to perform an act of enormous positivity.

I'm not sure if that made sense. It's hard to write down. Blah.

[Jazz]

Chelseabelle wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Chelseabelle wrote: "Ok.. it seems like there is a general consensus that Snape most likely would have stayed on as a Death Eater, at least for some time.

...Would you call Snape..."

Yeah, that makes sense :)

[Adero]

Yes, I guess I would. It isn't the reason he did something, but it is the act. And it was a heroic act.

[Tim]

These are some very good questions, and the fact that it is possible to have this nuanced of a discussion about Snape demonstrates what a well developed and complex character he is.

Here is my take on things: Snape was, ultimately a heroic person. He died so that another may live; however I do not feel that he was a GOOD person. While he may have been working to keep Harry safe, he simultaneously subjected him to every possible abuse. He went out of his way to make Harry and his friends lives as hellish as possible, abusing his power and authority as a teacher in the process. I know the explanation: Harry reminds Snape of James; all the same, that kind of behavior from an adult, especially a teacher, is inexcusable. So ultimately I would have to say that Snape was a bad person, who had a flair for romantic heroism.

[Chelsea]

Tim wrote: "These are some very good questions, and the fact that it is possible to have this nuanced of a discussion about Snape demonstrates what a well developed and complex character he is.

Here is my ta..."

Good point. Especially because we know that wasn't an act, that Dumbledore had a discussion with Snape about how much he disliked the boy in one of Snapes last memories.

[Christine]

Yeah, I think so.