City of Bones
discussion
Can't stop thinking of plagarism
Jahlia ((thing 10 Evil 1)) wrote: "I want to join the debate club!"Here's the link: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/9...
We'll be glad to have you!
Nurlely wrote: "Cassie wrote: "i think that alot of people think that because if any of you have read "The Draco Trilogy" a fan fiction series of Harry Potter that was written by Cassandra Clare it literally has s..."i was referring to the draco in the draco trilogy is so much the same as jace in the TMI. i mean even the story of the falcon is the same between them and the way they speak and act that's what i was referring to.. but yes i get what you saying. (:
If it's her own stuff who would she sue? Who cares is she uses her own stuff. To take an idea that someone else came up with and made something else with that well i guess we'd never have any books or movies for that matter. Then no one should write anymore vampire stories,werewolf stories,angel stories and no books at all. Well darn we should just get rid of electricity since we took Ben Franklins idea and made it better. I'm not saying take a story from someone else and only change a few words then call it your own because that is illegal .
Cassie wrote: "i was referring to the draco in the draco trilogy is so much the same as jace in the TMI. i mean even the story of the falcon is the same between them and the way they speak and act that's what i was referring to.. but yes i get what you saying. (: "The trilogy was Cassie's fanfic about Draco, the way she saw Draco. She developed Draco's character to her own ideas. She might used some authors' works, but compiling them and created a 'new' character to Draco is hers. If we can find similarities in her fanfic and TMI, most of them was because she wrote them both.
It is rather funny that people are so noisy about those similarities. What matters more is that there is no actual similarities between Draco Malfoy of HP and Jace Wayland of TMI.
I don't care about fanfic. Never into one and still stay far away from them too. If I want to read something, I will read a book, not a fanfic about some books.
Nurlely wrote: "Cassie wrote: "i was referring to the draco in the draco trilogy is so much the same as jace in the TMI. i mean even the story of the falcon is the same between them and the way they speak and act ..."I completely agree. I want to also add that I have read all of the Harry Potter books and also all of TMI with the last book the exception and I find rowling and Clare's writing styles very different.
Molly wrote: "AlbertaJenn wrote: "Pffft! In her fanfiction, she purposely quoted various books, TV shows, and moives. It was intentional, and her audience (the early fan fictioners) were totally aware of that. T..."She actually did put disclaimers on her writings after someone said "hey, maybe disclaim?" and she was like "basically everything is a game of catch the quote" and openly said she did paraphrase and stuff. Also ITS FANFICTION which at heart is homage to, and paraphrases things on the characters its based on. chill out yo. People are like " GAH SHE QUOTED SOMETHING GAH" but it wasnt in a public work, and she didnt try to pass it off or claim it as her own. She made an effort to write in the other books and shows and bleh she liked. That isnt plagiarism.
Daniel wrote: "Molly wrote: "AlbertaJenn wrote: "Pffft! In her fanfiction, she purposely quoted various books, TV shows, and moives. It was intentional, and her audience (the early fan fictioners) were totally aw..."The main complaint isn't what she did cite, it's what she didn't cite. She took parts of her story from Pamela Dean's The Secret Country, (Not just quotes, but the entire structure of certain scenes) and never cited The Secret Country as a source. That's the whole issue.
It's horrible, *AND* plagiarized? wtf?You might think a good editor would have found a way to 'massage' the vastly different writing styles in to a more cohesive work than this.
Harold wrote: "The main complaint isn't what she did cite, it's what she didn't cite. She took parts of her story from Pamela Dean's The Secret Country, (Not just quotes, but the entire structure of certain scenes) and never cited The Secret Country as a source. That's the whole issue. "And wasn't that particular book out of print at the time? That almost makes it seem like she intentionally used one she thought nobody would recognize...though of course I could be completely wrong.
Harold wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Molly wrote: "AlbertaJenn wrote: "Pffft! In her fanfiction, she purposely quoted various books, TV shows, and moives. It was intentional, and her audience (the early fan fictioners) ..."Actually, who cares? That was fanfic.
Also, I heard she did cite the book, just not the author
I don't see any similarities so far and I'm reading City of Ashes.... Plagiarizing is not plagiarizing if it was yours to begin with. You can call it repetition; but not plagiarism
Kirby wrote: "And wasn't that particular book out of print at the time? That almost makes it seem like she intentionally used one she thought nobody would recognize...though of course I could be completely wrong. "
Yeah, the Pamela Dean books were out of print at the time.
I think it's probably just a coincidence since she "forgot" to credit more than just those books. But can't rule your reasoning out, for all I know she might've thought no one would recognize the passages.
I really enjoy TMI but am feeling like she repeats herself in TID. Will is a Jace rip off, and this annoys me. I don't see the 'plagiarism' in TMI that other people complain about, but feel she's been lazy in terms of repeating characters and ideas between the two series.
Niamh225 wrote: "I really enjoy TMI but am feeling like she repeats herself in TID. Will is a Jace rip off, and this annoys me. I don't see the 'plagiarism' in TMI that other people complain about, but feel she's b..."Well i'm pretty sure Will is like Jace because they are related
But Will is just way more awesome, admit it. Jace is an asshole because he can. Will is an asshole because he has no choice. Plus, Will is just more... more, you know?
City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his loyalists flee. But the other ones in the Circle surrendered and gave names. Okay. Igor Karkaroff there?)
3. Stele - Wand
4. Clave - Ministry of Magic
I could go on, but you get me.
Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his loyalists flee. But the other ones in the Circl..."
No I don't get you. Please, go on.
You think Harry Potter was all original? Just about every book has things that are similar to other books.
City of Bones is so not Harry Potter.
Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his loyalists flee. But the other o..."
You rated it 4 stars. I see, are you a fan of the books?
Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his loyalists flee. But the other ones in the Circl..."
I love both series. Harry Potter for me is a must-read series, and I have seen people from various ages read and love it (even my over 50 years old colleagues).
TMI is awesome too, perhaps with less range of readers if we are to compare it with HP, but the series is getting more and more fans now.
I have read both series for many times, and although there are similarities in characterization and tools (this is not a big issue, for there are many series with this kind of similarities out there), HP and TMI are different in story building.
Have you read TMI series? I see that you 'added' City of Bones. It means that you haven't actually read the whole TMI books to compare them with HP and came up with such conclusion.
Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his loyalists flee. ..."
Yes I am
Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his ..."
Then there's no point in explaining my reasoning to you. Most fans normally do not, and will not understand what other people think of the book, especially those who don't like it. We'll just argue. And since no one will lower their pride to admit that the other's right, it's just pure nonsense.
Nurlely wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to be 'dead', his loyalists flee. But the other o..."
I'm actually reading it. And I'm halfway through, although I've known what the book is all about since I read its plot a long time ago. I'm huge fan of the Harry Potter series. So every time I read something in TMI that seems very similar and derived directly, then that's when I could say that it is 'so Harry Potter'. But please be reminded that it's my opinion. I posted it here because I wanted to voice out what I thought, just like what any other else has been doing. So you don't have to agree with me :)
Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine was thought to ..."
Wow really? No point in explaining your reasoning to me? You have no reasoning.
Stele - Wand.. How so? Last time I checked, a stele does something completely different than a wand.
Valentine - Voldemort.. Yeah millions of books have that Villain. Same with the circle - Death Eaters, Clave - Ministry of Magic.
Those are all elements in millions of different books.
This has nothing to do with pride. This is all common sense. You're wrong and thinking you're not is just nonsense.
Your just so in love with the Harry Potter books you can't seem to understand that all those things you listed as being the same, the Harry Potter books took from some other book.
That's just the way it is.
Now if it was the same Plot, that would be different. It's not, so you're wrong
Kirstin wrote: "So every time I read something in TMI that seems very similar and derived directly, then that's when I could say that it is 'so Harry Potter'. But please be reminded that it's my opinion. I posted it here because I wanted to voice out what I thought, just like what any other else has been doing. So you don't have to agree with me :) No worries. We have our agreement and disagreement in discussion forum. As long as we keep it civil, then it will be just fine.
Authors are not without flaws. Cassie was a fans of HP and even wrote a fanfic. But JK Rowling is not without flaws either. HP is so similar to other books before it, so calling TMI is so HP is kind of funny since you may need to drag along the books similar to HP with it. And the story is different, despite the similarities in characterization and tools.
Reading the plot and not actually reading it might have probably misled you into believing that HP and TMI are the same. But reading the whole books for both series will give you details about the series better.
Just my point there. Feel free to argue... ;)
Joshua wrote: " I've seen a lot of stuff online that shows how closely some of her fan fiction resembles other texts, but I have yet to find that she was tried, much less convicted, for the crime of plagiarism. "I don't think there was a trial or anything like that. Plagiarism is sadly very common in fanfiction and a lot of ff authors just get a slap of the wrist if they do anything like that. Some get their stories removed, some get their accounts suspended, etc.
If I remember correctly, Cassie had her account deleted, now I would just look at the fandom wikis that had the timeline to the plagiarism issues with CC to confirm this but most of those have have vanished. IDK, if CC had them removed.
Diane wrote: "Joshua wrote: " I've seen a lot of stuff online that shows how closely some of her fan fiction resembles other texts, but I have yet to find that she was tried, much less convicted, for the crime o..."Yeah she didn't give credit to an Author
Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really. When Valentine..."
See? I told you, there's no point in discussing my views to you. I'll just keep them to myself since you will never understand them. Will never admit that I have a point. =)
Nurlely wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "So every time I read something in TMI that seems very similar and derived directly, then that's when I could say that it is 'so Harry Potter'. But please be reminded that it's my op..."I agree with you, no author is without a flaw. And no. I'm not literally saying that TMI and HP are the same. I could see the difference in the plot. 'City of Bones is so Harry Potter' is my way of saying that I found TMI's concept considerably similar with that of HP.
Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater (Really, really...."
Wow you are dense aren't you. You don't have a point. I already pointed that out. What don't you understand?
I'm also still waiting for you to point out how a Stele is the same as a Wand.
Oh and let me know who Voldemorts son is.
When you give me valid explanations on those, then i'll see your point. Until then, you're just pointing out that there is a Villain in each series with no similarities except that their Villains.
Kirstin wrote: "Nurlely wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "So every time I read something in TMI that seems very similar and derived directly, then that's when I could say that it is 'so Harry Potter'. But please be reminded..."The concept is not even remotely similar
Kirstin wrote: "I could see the difference in the plot. 'City of Bones is so Harry Potter' is my way of saying that I found TMI's concept considerably similar with that of HP. "I think the concept is a lot bigger of definition than just having similarities in characterization and tools. The concept covers the idea of the story.
People are all thinking of this in the wrong context- basically ALL fiction books have the argued elements in them. Harry Potter could be "similarly compared" to so many different series/books, not just TMI.
Sophie wrote: "People are all thinking of this in the wrong context- basically ALL fiction books have the argued elements in them. Harry Potter could be "similarly compared" to so many different series/books, not..."People are a little more suspicious about the similarities of CC's books to Harry Potter because she used to write a controversial fanfiction (with plagiarism issues).
This issue has some similar elements to the 50shades/twilight debacle (although different in a major way) with some of the issues being "how much inspiration is too much inspiration" and "ethical use of fanfiction".
Diane wrote: "Sophie wrote: "People are all thinking of this in the wrong context- basically ALL fiction books have the argued elements in them. Harry Potter could be "similarly compared" to so many different se..."What similarities? Someone needs to explain the similarities. I don't see anymore similarities than that of any other book. It's part of the Genre.
Why fight over this. It's part of being a genre. Unless something was copied word for word I don't feel like it counts as plagiarism.
Heidi wrote: "Why fight over this. It's part of being a genre. Unless something was copied word for word I don't feel like it counts as plagiarism."Thank you Heidi.
Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "Shelly wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "City of Bones is so HArry Potter.1. Valentine - Voldemort
2. The Circle - Death Eater ..."
Reminded me more of hitler OR KKK, with both TMI and HP... and it's a basic concept. it's the details that need to be different, and they are... HP theme is LOVE, compassion, is the greats forces. TMI is trust in the angels and that human prejudice is not what angels and gods view it.
Heidi wrote: "Why fight over this. It's part of being a genre. Unless something was copied word for word I don't feel like it counts as plagiarism."I'd rather read discussion and/or debate over fighting. Similarities, writing process, ethics etc. are interesting/important things to discuss.
The ONLY ones who ever claim she's a plagiarist have neither read her fanfiction nor her real books. Mortal Instruments have absolutely nothing to do with Harry Potter. So what if she used themes and conversation from her fan fiction. Writing fan fiction is not plagiarism it's simply fan fiction. As long as it's not being sold anyone can write about anything. So because she recreated a whole new world that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Harry Potter in any shape form or fashion and she remodeled a few characters and dialogue scenes from her fan fiction it's plagiarism? Do you'll even know what the word plagiarism means? Please look up a definition before you claim to know what it means and then do your research and read everything she's written. You wouldn't want someone to call you a criminal based on absolutely no research or evidence would you?
AlbertaJenn wrote: "Pffft! In her fanfiction, she purposely quoted various books, TV shows, and moives. It was intentional, and her audience (the early fan fictioners) were totally aware of that. That does not make it..."Well said. I can write Gone with the Wind part 2 all day long if I want to but I cannot sell it. I can then write my own story of the south using my knowledge I gained from writing my fan fic Gone with the Wind 2 book that I didn't sell and then sell my own book that has absolutely no resemblance to Gone with the Wind but does contain a few ideas and descriptions from my previous fan fiction. That is not plagiarism.
Plagiarism is and I quote "
to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb
: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source"
I'm assuming Gone with the Wind took place in the south? I never read it lol.
It's called the I want to join the hate bandwagon and talk out of my butt. It's cool to hate Twilight so I hate it even though I saw each movie twice, oh but that was before I hated it. Now I hate Mortal Instruments even though I've never read it and don't really read at all unless you count comics. Just like everyone hated the reboot of Spider-Man but then decided they'd hate Sam Raimi's Spider-Man although I think they're jumping back into the I hate the Amazing Spider Man group again. This hater crowd is so fickle and usually very uninformed. Get enough people saying I hate.....and other people will join. I'd love to start a social internet experiment and see if I can post enough I hate Abraham Lincoln posts to try and see if morons will actually start hating on one of our greatest Presidents. I hate to say it but I bet they would. Seems to be a follow the herd mentality.
Just because Cassandra Clare has a few ideas from other authors and books does not make her a plagiarist. I mean seriously does everyone think that J.K Rowling came up with Harry Potter all on her own. No, obviously she got ideas from other authors and books. I love The Mortal Instruments and I've read Harry Potter and I don't think they're anything alike.
Izzeh wrote: "Just because Cassandra Clare has a few ideas from other authors and books does not make her a plagiarist. I mean seriously does everyone think that J.K Rowling came up with Harry Potter all on her ..."What are you talking about? Nobody ever used magic wands or flying broomsticks before J.K. Rowling. Everything about Harry Potter is 100% original. :)
uh... I'm confused. its not plagiarism if it is your own work, and how was this book ANYTHING like Harry Potter apart from the fact that neither Harry or Clary knew what they were. And that happens ALL THE TIME. J.K Rowling can't have been the first to think of that and no one says she's plagiarised!
Izzeh wrote: "Just because Cassandra Clare has a few ideas from other authors and books does not make her a plagiarist. I mean seriously does everyone think that J.K Rowling came up with Harry Potter all on her ..."I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic. -.- Magic has been around for a very long time. And the whole "other world thing" Narnia was written before Harry Potter.
Izzeh wrote: "Izzeh wrote: "Just because Cassandra Clare has a few ideas from other authors and books does not make her a plagiarist. I mean seriously does everyone think that J.K Rowling came up with Harry Pott..."Of course I was being sarcastic. Pretty much everything in Harry Potter has been done before.
Daniel wrote: "Izzeh wrote: "Izzeh wrote: "Just because Cassandra Clare has a few ideas from other authors and books does not make her a plagiarist. I mean seriously does everyone think that J.K Rowling came up w..."Well then. I love you. XD
Izzeh wrote: "Daniel wrote: "Izzeh wrote: "Izzeh wrote: "Just because Cassandra Clare has a few ideas from other authors and books does not make her a plagiarist. I mean seriously does everyone think that J.K Ro..."Well thank you, i'm flattered. But long distance relationships never work out :)
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