THE Group for Authors! discussion
Publishing and Promoting
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Smashwords shipping to Amazon by year end.
I use and love Smashwords, but got tired of waiting and published to Amazon myself. Is there any advantage to letting Smashwords do it?
Hi Adam. Some members of the Smashwords Forum experienced difficulty uploading to Amazon. Having Smashwords upload to Amazon could eliminate any problems.
I've never heard of anyone having problems uploading to Amazon, and I've been doing it for two years, and I'm pretty plugged in…If you upload your book to Amazon directly, it is live and on sale within 12 hours… not by year end.
The only thing you'll be getting out of using Smashwords is mediocre and potentially flawed e-book files, exceedingly long wait times and a middleman who cuts into your profits for doing nothing. Not to mention that their servers are dog-slow, making their own e-book store completely unusable.
Not sure why people are such fans of them, really.
Not everyone is as computer savvy as you, Guido, and a lot of people would rather have some company like Smashwords do the work for them in converting and distributing their work than doing it themselves.Smashwords converts a file into multiple eboook formats for a large variety of ebook readers, whereas Amazon converts a file into one format for their own Kindle.
Smashwords is growing quite rapidly, and is suffering growing pains like Amazon and other popular web sites did when exceedingly large numbers of new visitors/members appeared and overloaded their existing servers and staff.
I disagree with your statement that Smashwords does nothing for their cut of the profit. Smashwords converts your book into a variety of formats, distributes your book to retailers like Apple, Barnes and Noble, Sony, and Nook, and does that for a much smaller royalty cut than Amazon for books less than $2.99 (70% royalty at Smashwords and 60% at Apple, B&N, Nook, etc when distributed through Smashwords; Amazon royalty on books less than $2.99 is 35%).
With Smashwords authors can let someone else do the distribution, do the conversion to multiple ebook formats, and earn twice as much as they would on Amazon for ebooks less than $2.99.
Smashwords isn't perfect, but it is big enough nowadays for Amazon to notice and decide to do business with them.
I have a book on Smashwords, Kindle, and NOOK (Barnes & Noble). Only the Kindle and NOOK versions have sold anything. I think that now that anyone can get anything uploaded as an eBook, it will be nigh unto impossible to avoid getting a lot of garbage. Who will separate the wheat from the chaff? Who is reviewing these self-published books? Before now, self publishing meant you paid the publisher, but your manuscript got evaluated and edited. They also provided outside reviews and press releases. Now there are no safeguards whatsoever.
Hi Elaine. You are 100% correct; there is a lot of garbage.Smashwords allows their members to set the percentage of an ebook sample. Some Smashwords members, like myself, set that percentage at 15-50 percent, which makes it easy for a potential purchaser to see if the book is acceptable to them or not.
A member of the Smashwords Forum suggested the reason for lower sales at Smashwords compared to B%N, Apple, etc., is readers view a sample on Smashwords and then purchase at the retailer they have dealt with in the past.
Just want to say again that I totally support Smashwords and I will continue to use it for distribution to stores other than Amazon. I just felt like I was missing a lot of potential sales by not being on Amazon as well. I will certainly reevaluate this when I finish my next book.
Hi Adam. I agree that authors should be on both Amazon and Smashwords to maximize their potential sales. When Smashwords begins distributing to Amazon it will be up to each author as to whether they want one source for their payment (Smashwords) or deal with 2 sources for payment, and whether they feel comfortable uploading works to both companies or just Smashwords.
I am not sure what this discussion is about anyway."When Smashwords begins distributing to Amazon "
They've been doing that for years.
I had published on Smashwords and Kindle. Smashwords was a waste if time and never sold anything despite Kindle sales doing really well.I decided to ditch my Smashwords version because the meatgrinder there made it look awful anyway. That, and any changes take forever to go through.
I'm with Guido on this one. With free software 'Calibre' and 'Mobipocket Creator' it is easier to make a good looking Kindle book or ePub (etc) than it is to please the Smashwords software (don't get me wrong, I got my book in the premium program first try - it still took 7 weeks to approve though).
Why anybody would consider putting themselves through more pain and effort to get their book on Kindle (it really is easier to do it yourself) and then give away a % of their royalty to Smashwords is completely beyond me.
Well said, Greg. Glad I'm not the only who feels that way, especially because I see absolutely no improvement on Smashwords' end. They're been doing their same broken thing for years now without ever addressing the core problems.
You're mistaken, Guido. Smashwords hasn't distributed members ebooks to Amazon in the past, else why would Mark say Smashwords hopes to start shipping to Amazon by year end.Greg, it is a matter of personal choice for authors as to whether they want to let some company like Smashwords do the distribution, updates and version conversions, or do it themselves and upload to a bunch of different retailers. You like to do it yourself, and others prefer to have someone else do it for them. It is just another option for writers.
Calibre and Mobipocket are two more ways to create an epub and are used by some Smashwords Forum members.
Two - four months back there was quite the discussion on the Smashwords Forum regarding the length of time for premium approval. Smashwords was simply overloaded with a very high number new writers uploading books.
Since then Mark has increased staff and added servers. The last ebook I uploaded to Smashwords was converted into all formats in less than 1/2 hour (It was number 48 in the cue at the beginning), and approved for Premium Distribution 2 days later. But yeah, there was a period when the process was excruciatingly slow.
Ted, I am not sure if I'm floating in a parallel universe right now but I know for a fact that Smashwords offered Amazon as a Premium Channel for at least two years already.
They offer it and you can select it as a retailer but they have still never actually distributed books to them.
Wow, so they offered it as a premium channel for 2 years without ever shipping any books to them? It boggles the mind…
Not really a boggle, Guido, as much as due diligence on the part of Amazon before committing to an agreement. It is just smart business on Amazon's part.If you were Amazon would you immediately partner with a relatively new start-up or wait until it was proven to be popular and therefor bring something more substantial to the table? Amazon is the elephant in the room, and can certainly set the terms and pace of any proposed agreement.
There is also the matter of computer integration between the two companies, and Smashwords providing mobi books in a form and fashion suitable to Amazon.
Tell me you are kidding, please… I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode right now.
Darlings no need to argue. Smashwords does offer Amazon for distribution. It just doesn't actually go anywhere. God help those writers who don't check out the fine print in Smashwords blog and expect to see their works on Amazon. They won't. In fact, you have to go to your dashboard and "opt out" which I've done. What's not to love about Amazon? They give me an author page, on-the-fly updates, rankings, readers, Look Inside The Book for Kindle and Print, monthly payments for my work, and a kick-ass web site.
Smashwords gives me the grinder, angst, untimely reports, and only pays me on a quarterly basis. Sales beyond Smashwords, in terms of reporting, I have yet to see. I bought my book on iBooks just to see how long it would be before Smashwords informed me of the sale, still waiting two months later. Granted, the grinder has gotten faster and perhaps their premium distribution has sped up (It didn't for me. I had to send emails to Mark to get things going after three weeks with both novels), but their web site is not stellar and I avoid sending people there unless I have to. The only plus I like is the coupon feature. I use it for contest giveaways which I do every once in a while.
Tell me the upside for Amazon to work with Smashwords? It's not much.
Guido, I was directed to your web site for formatting by the wonderful David Gaughran. I will be utilizing your guidelines for my next novel for everything other than Mobi (I do this version in InDesign with the Mobi add-on option.)
KO
I haven't had any problems uploading to Amazon either, but problems have been mentioned on the Smashwords Forum.Aabra wrote: "My Smashword editions are selling, maybe..." Your Smashword Dashboard shows sales at every retailer, so it is fairly easy to see which retailers are outperforming another.
Katherine wrote: "Tell me the upside for Amazon to work with Smashwords? It's not much." There really isn't much I can see either, Katherine, although Amazon will be able to pay quarterly and have one account to deal with instead of many.
Doesn't look like an upside to me. If Amazon already has their efficient systems in place to pay monthly then adding a quarterly system for one customer (albeit a potentially big one) would be a nuisance at best.Chance are, they would still pay Smashwords monthly too. Not that Smashwords would pass that on to the user.
Also, Smashwords collective account (the numberof users) would probably be a drop in the ocean for Amazon. Let's assume that Amazon KDP has 100,000 users and say that Smashwords comes on with 5000. Well, Amazon's system can easily handle the tens of thousands so having 1 instead of 5000 new customers would certainly be no big deal. Computer systems like the one that makes Amazon payments are hugely scalable. A little thing like increasing the number of users is completely painless and involves no effort on the part of Amazon.
In my opinion, the only person (persons) that stand to benefit from the whole arrangement is Smashwords. The author loses a chunk of their royalty for the pleasure of having a worse looking Kindle book, Amazon get's filled with even lower-quality trash, and readers have to sift through more of it too.
So far as suggesting that it means less effort for an author to distribute their books wider, all the statistics I have seen (and my own experience) prove that Kindle publishing is by far and away the most effective revenue stream. It should be the first port of call for eBook publishing.
Whether or not the author wants to make the extra effort to publish with Smashwords is the question, not the other way around. Personally, I won't bother with that effort again.
Perhaps if I was giving away (or selling for 0.99c) some unedited erotica that I wrote during NaNoWriMo I would think differently.
Ted, do you have an affiliation with Smashwords. You defend the very well for just a casual user. If you aren't on their pay-check, you should be. Passionate customers like you could almost tempt me back. If you do have an affiliation, could you declare it?
Greg wrote: "Ted, do you have an affiliation with Smashwords. You defend the very well for just a casual user. If you aren't on their pay-check, you should be. Passionate customers like you could almost tempt me back. If you do have an affiliation, could you declare it? "No affiliation with Smashwords other than as a writer using them for distribution.
I started the Smashwords Forum, and it isn't affiliated with Smashowrds in any fashion. The only thing my forum has in common with Smashwords is the name, no monetary benefit whatsoever. Maybe Mark will read this thread and change that situation.
If you checked my Smashwords Forum you'll see that I'm certainly not biased towards Smashwords, or any ebook distributor or retailer for that matter.
As for the Amazon-Smashwords connection, I suggested on my forum that members follow their own thoughts on whether to opt-out of distribution to Amazon or not. I chose to opt-out and deal with Amazon directly as I feel comfortable doing so.
Smashwords isn't perfect, but then neither is Amazon from looking at their Publisher Support lists.
Greg wrote: "Chance are, they would still pay Smashwords monthly too. Not that Smashwords would pass that on to the user."
I can't comment on that until Amazon starts accepting ebooks from them and starts paying Smashword and its authors. Smashwords may keep the playing field level and follow their standard procedures with other retailers.
Thanks for that, Ted. Clears things up nicely for me and I understand where you are coming from.
Thanks for this discussion. Answered several questions I had concerning both companies.
I've used Smashwords since 2009 but have been terribly frustrated at their inability to get a deal with Amazon. I wasted valuable months waiting for their deal with Amazon to materialize (and that's my fault for waiting) before I finally published my novel and some short stories in the Kindle Store. I like the way Amazon is doing business, I must say. Much respect to Mark Coker for Smashwords, but the Amazon problem has certainly hurt their growth and perhaps credibility with some writers.
I think you hit the nail on the head quite nicely, J.
I agree with Greg and J. Mark made a promotion decision that began to look like vaporware as months passed. I imagine Mark is as frustrated as everyone with the time it is taking to distribute on Amazon.
Greg wrote: "I think you hit the nail on the head quite nicely, J."Thanks.
Ted wrote: "I agree with Greg and J. Mark made a promotion decision that began to look like vaporware as months passed. I imagine Mark is as frustrated as everyone with the time it is taking to distribute on A..."Agreed.
Smashwords will need to demonstrate that they're providing some value by offering to distribute one's books to Amazon versus submitting them directly or through another source, such as CreateSpace. Otherwise, as Greg suggests the primary beneficiary is Smashwords.
On royalties Mark had this to say, "the terms will be essentially the same..."Do you have the option to take the 35%, sell for $2.99, and not permit "sharing" and "lending"?
Rowena wrote: "On royalties Mark had this to say, "the terms will be essentially the same..."Do you have the option to take the 35%, sell for $2.99, and not permit "sharing" and "lending"?
Amazon sets the royalty at 35% for ebooks at $2.99 or less. If you want to earn 35% on your ebooks selling for $2.99 or less then you should deal with Amazon directly.
Lending and sharing are offered by Amazon for DRM (Digital Rights Management) ebooks. Smashwords doesn't use DRM, although some retailers do use DRM.
Lending and Sharing ebooks through Smashwords isn't an option right now. At this time I'm not aware of Mark making Lending and Sharing an option in the future for Smashwords members' Amazon ebooks.
Lending and Sharing using DRM as Amazon does won't protect a writer against piracy in a digital world. Here is a link to a discussion on Kindle Lending Library.
Aabra wrote: The problem arises when Kindle checks the pricing of a book and finds it is lower on Kobo, for instance, than the price the author set on Kindle. Then Kindle immediately drops the price to match the Kobo price even though the price of the book has now been raised everywhere else, including on Kindle.Juggling prices is a problem. It is best to set your price correctly the first time.
Don't worry, Aabra. It gets worse when you leave them. I unpublished my book over three weeks ago but it still shows up on Diesel and others. I don't expect the reporting of any sales or the commission will work, though. I have no faith whatsoever in Smashwords and will never return. Lesson learned.
I'm in the middle of this right now! Daily, I check to see if Amazon has "caught up" with the other Smashword online sites with the price change on my book. So far, Amazon is the only one still offering if for free...and it's been over a week since the price was changed upward. I agree--keeping prices consistently across all sites is the best way to go.
I published for Kindle weeks before I put them on Smashwords. Same commission from each. Smashwords shows my work in excellent formatting anyway. Free ISBN, lets me keep my rights. And they republish, if you edit, very quickly. Also answer customer service questions promptly. My sales are slow with both. I am totally a novice at this.
This thread is a bit old, but I wanted to add one reason to use Smashwords to distribute to Amazon instead of going straight through Amazon: if you don't live in the US.
Unlike Smashwords, Amazon will not pay international authors through PayPal (or any other electronic method); your only option if you live overseas is to accept a paper check. Most banks charge a hefty fee to cash foreign checks (and you spend time getting the check there). For example, my bank charges € 2.30 plus 0.1% of the amount, with a minimum of € 10. That's quite a chunk out of a $ 100 check.
The net profit you see from Amazon directly would still be higher, even taking the bank's fee into account, but for non-blockbuster authors who get their checks in $ 100 increments, it isn't much of a difference, and the hassle of having to cash a check from Amazon may be sufficiently offset by the ease (and speed) of PayPal payments in $ 10 increments from Smashwords that overseas authors prefer to go through Smashwords. I'm still debating this myself.
Unlike Smashwords, Amazon will not pay international authors through PayPal (or any other electronic method); your only option if you live overseas is to accept a paper check. Most banks charge a hefty fee to cash foreign checks (and you spend time getting the check there). For example, my bank charges € 2.30 plus 0.1% of the amount, with a minimum of € 10. That's quite a chunk out of a $ 100 check.
The net profit you see from Amazon directly would still be higher, even taking the bank's fee into account, but for non-blockbuster authors who get their checks in $ 100 increments, it isn't much of a difference, and the hassle of having to cash a check from Amazon may be sufficiently offset by the ease (and speed) of PayPal payments in $ 10 increments from Smashwords that overseas authors prefer to go through Smashwords. I'm still debating this myself.
Adam wrote: "I use and love Smashwords, but got tired of waiting and published to Amazon myself. Is there any advantage to letting Smashwords do it?"I'm not sure, but I've about lost all interest in Smashwords . . .
~Kit
Kit wrote: "I'm not sure, but I've about lost all interest in Smashwords . . ."I feel the same way about Amazon, although my free ebooks are downloaded quite a bit.
I can't see Amazon partnering with Smashwords any time soon, what with Amazon promoting its KDP Select program and forcing authors to use only Amazon for distributing their works for 1/4 of the year.
Smashwords is currently distributing about 200 titles to Amazon. Amazon still hasn't set up the "bulk upload" capability that would be required to accept the entire Smashwords Premium Catalog.If your book is doing $1000 or more in sales each month on Smashwords, you can talk to them about getting your title added to the list that is currently shipping to Amazon. The rest will have to wait until the bulk facility is set up.
FYI, Mark claims that Smashwords lost about 6,000 titles due to the KDP Select program. They still have over 90,000 titles, but KDP Select definitely hurt.
In December of 2011 Mark wrote an article on his blog titled "Amazon Shows Predatory Spots with KDP Select." Mark's article isn't favorable to Amazon.
I believe Mark has decided to try a different approach for 2012 when it comes to dealing with Amazon, and the expected Jan/Feb 2012 alignment between Amazon and Smashwords won't go ahead.
I wish Mark all the best and will still align some of my work with Smashwords--but Amazon is obviously making a play to squash him and other similar outfits. They have the manpower/assets to quickly overtake them. Example: my new book is now on day 5 of waiting to be approved on Smashwords for "Premium" status. Amazon approved the book in less than 24 hours.
J. wrote:"Example: my new book is now on day 5 of waiting to be approved on Smashwords for "Premium" status. Amazon approved the book in less than 24 hours."Premium distribution is for other retailers like Apple, Barnes & Noble, Sony, Kobo, etc.
In the past 10 days I've uploaded 4 new books, all but the one I uploaded yesterday have been approved for Premium Distribution within 3 business days.
Amazon takes about 24 hours to put my book up for sale after I've uploaded it, while all my ebooks have appeared on Smashwords for sale a 1 or 2 seconds after being converted.
In the past few months it has taken less than 10 minutes for Smashwords to convert an ebook and make it available for sale, thanks to Mark adding lots more servers to handle the very high increase in authors adding books to Smashwords.
I agree with J. that Amazon wants to squash Smashwords and other similar outfits. The next few years will tell whether Amazon took the right actions or not.
Ted wrote: "J. wrote:"Example: my new book is now on day 5 of waiting to be approved on Smashwords for "Premium" status. Amazon approved the book in less than 24 hours."Premium distribution is for other reta..."
No doubt Smashwords is doing much better at conversion--and I am certainly respectful of their work and not by any means slamming them. Indeed, once the book is converted, it's online available for sale--but I envy how quickly your books get approved for premium! I have my books professionally formatted, so I'm a little disappointed it takes comparatively longer to approve them.
J. wrote: "Ted wrote: "J. wrote:"Example: my new book is now on day 5 of waiting to be approved on Smashwords for "Premium" status. Amazon approved the book in less than 24 hours."I'm not sure the wait time for Smashwords vs. Amazon is a big factor--let's get some perspective--we're usually talking about a few days. For me the Smashword's issue have to do with (1) conversion; and (2) just how many sales I'll make using their channels. Regarding conversion--it needs to be better and more targeted for devices or authors will bolt. Regarding distribution, I really like the coupon function Smashwords has--it lets us send books to reviewers for free. I haven't been able to do that via Amazon for e-books.
I published my book on Kindle and it was online almost instantly. When I've made changes, the book is still available for sale and the new version is live in less than 24 hours. I had to pay someone to format for Smashwords and it took about a week to get premium status. Two weeks later, I'm still waiting for it to be listed on B & N since that's where Nook owners look for books.
As for sales: zero on Smashwords v. many on Amazon. The one thing in Smashwords' favor is their distribution to most e-book sales sites.
Harriet, I'd love to know your secret for getting published so quickly on Kindle. I publish books on Kindle and it always takes 5-24 hours before online at Amazon.Comparing sales on Smashwords to sales on Amazon is not comparing apples to apples because:
1) Smashwords doesn't sell their own ereader that connects directly to their ebook library;
2) Smashwords hasn't yet the brand awareness of Amazon;
3) When an ebook appears on a retailer web site is up to the retailer. Smashwords does provide a tiime-frame when your ebook may appear at different online retailers, but it is still up to the retailer when an ebook is placed online for sale.
4) A book is available for sale on Smashwords even when changing/updating it.
5) I'm sorry you had to pay someone to format your book properly before uploading it to Smashwords. I'll be happy to send you a quote to format your next work for you.
Smashwords ships Premium ebooks to retailers every Thursday and Friday. So far this month I've published 5 ebooks on Smashwords. A few of these new ebooks are already on Kobo, Apple, and WHSmith. Barnes and Noble - the Nook book store - hasn't displayed any of my 5 new ebooks this month - as of this post.
I agree 100% with you about Smashwords distributing to various ebook retailers is a definite advantage over Amazon. My ebooks on Barnes and Noble outsell Amazon by a Grand Canyon-size margin, so I'm happy to wait for B&N to display my recent works.
On royalties Mark had this to say, "the terms will be essentially the same as for our other retailers - 85% of what Amazon pays us we'll pay you. They pay us 70% for books priced $2.99-$9.99, and 35% for other points, so we'll pay 60% and 30%."