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Creating FA's top fantasy books: the rules
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I warn you, if the moderators go to all of that trouble I will A) be forced to add any and all unread from the top 100 to my to-read list
B) send all of the moderators fudge!
My two cents: separate fantasy from sci-fi. I'd like a bigger sample size--say we each nominate 10 books or series per category by a date (so we'd vote for The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, and not each individual book), then moderators take the top 100 multiple nominated. I'd expect a lot of single nominations, depending on how many, we might need to drop all of the singles or extend the top 100. Just a thought, I don't feel strongly about it.
Increasing the number of potential nominations won't really impact the sample size, which regardless will be statistically small, but will increase how much work whoever is sorting through the nominations has to do, particularly as they will be doing it manually, without access to whatever technical resources NPR used. Looking back over the last year of polls, it seems voting is typically in the 30-40 votes range. It is very possible we will get more responses since there is nothing expected like with the monthly polls, but it seems 100, for an example, would be a higher than expected response rate. There will almost certainly be a number of overlapping nominations, but going from the 5 nominations per person discussed before to 10 increases the potential total variable significantly, therefore increasing the work. I'm not familiar enough with statistics to give an accurate prediction as to what the benefits would be, but to me they seem like something that should be weighed against the cost.I like the idea of making it fantasy only, but do think there should be a set way of determining what genre a book is, even if it's as basic as "that's it's more common shelf on Goodreads" or "that's the first thing it says on Wikipedia."
Notes from the other thread:__________________
How about:
1 - create a thread/folder specific for this activity
2 - people can nominate up to a total of five (5) books
3 - Either I (or Tracey & I) will collect nominations at the end of each day (just to make life easy)
4 - once the nominations have been complied, I will create a poll and send a massive email to everyone in the group to vote.
**We need to figure out how many books will make the list
**Are there any limitations as to what books are not eligible for this list (we already know NO Sci-Fi)
**As of right now the poll doesn't seem to allow more than 1 vote per person. What is our solution for this?
Note from previous thread:______________________
I think that we should keep it to fantasy but allow all sub-genres.
I agree that all books in one (1) series should count as one (1) vote/nomination.
__________
**So, what do you all think about Mach's suggestion that each person only gets one (1) nomination?
**We still haven't discussed: As of right now the GR polling system doesn't seem to allow more than 1 vote per person. What is our solution for this?
Comment by: Laurel_______________
Idea,
What if you put a poll up with the nominated list, then put it up again and again until you reach the number of votes people are allowed.
For example, we would vote on the whole list 5 times, or 10 times. There are often 2 polls up for a group monthly read. This would simply mean a couple more polls.
Would that be workable?
Or maybe five poles up labled Nominate first choice, then 2nd choice etc.?Then total up the number score, divide by five and low scor is the number one choice second lowest is 2 etc.?
Laurel, are you saying you would remove the highest winner from the first poll, then whatever is voted highest on the second poll is second place, and so on?
Hugh wrote: "Or maybe five poles up labled Nominate first choice, then 2nd choice etc.?"
I like this ^ It allows for one vote without being complicated. Except, of course, with polls instead of poles. ;) Unless we can somehow integrate a flagpole into this?
@Danae, I don't think 10 nominations would be quite as much work as much as increasing the chances to get similar nominations. Here's my thought from the "Favorite underrated books thread"--we will all nominate at least one book that no one else has heard of or read. Having 10 nominations increases chances of them overlapping.
Carol wrote: "Hugh wrote: "Or maybe five poles up labled Nominate first choice, then 2nd choice etc.?"
Like this ^ being excessively complicated. It allows for one vote withoutExcept, of course, with polls i..."
Flag pole yea.. wait.. how come everybody's always pickin on a bubba huh? (:{)>
It might get you a top twenty five and then you could do a one man one vote for the proper order.
By the way, Hugh--had to edit my post, my laptop sometimes jumps the cursor around. I was trying to say I like your idea and it's not that complicated.
Carol wrote: "By the way, Hugh--had to edit my post, my laptop sometimes jumps the cursor around. I was trying to say I like your idea and it's not that complicated."Oh, in that case I take my bubba comment back and say...your right. I am a genious. but.. um.. just imagine I said it with more words that sounded intelegent and less arrogant.
If I had money, I would bet on LOTR winning first, followed by Dresden, knowing this group. Even if that weren't the case, for a pool this small...I'm just going to take my cynical self to observer status now.
I like the idea of moving from 5 to 10 for a first nomination. It could give a wider sample. I also think that people should only nominate books they have actually read (this of course wouldn't keep them from nominating a series if they have only read half of it). This will probably bring out more voters than we usually see on the group read threads.
I really like the idea of only nominating books that you've read!
I wondered about that on the NPR thread, so....
Do people do that? I always felt like what people have and have not read plays as much a part in these things as what people like/think they should like.
I think that voting only for books you've read makes perfect sense, too!
Lol. And I felt bad voting for series when I've only read the first book. Why would you vote for one you haven't read?
Requiring have read will be hard to enforce, but most will be honest. I have a problem with 5 or 10 books. Why not 7 or 11 books? Or no more than 10. You tell me 5 and I just know I'll find 6 I can't decide among. Why a limit?
Kernos wrote: "Requiring have read will be hard to enforce, but most will be honest. I have a problem with 5 or 10 books. Why not 7 or 11 books? Or no more than 10. You tell me 5 and I just know I'll find 6 I c..."
The limit is there to keep the work down on moi - any more and my head will start to 'splod. :)
It's obvious Kernos...some who'll want to nominate and vote will need a quick reference and their fingers are right there, 5 or 10 (this is of course assuming no injuries and that you are not Count Rogan in disguise). And yes I admit there will always be a book (or more) that we are forced to leave off when a limiting number is named. But that would be the case should we all name 100 books...
And yah, I was assuming an "honor system" in the read it before you vote rule. Naive I admit, but it's about all we can do.
lol @ Mike---yes, I have trouble counting over my fingers and toes. Unless someone, by chance, has six fingers on his hand? Then Kernos could have 11. ;)
Traci wrote: "Lol. And I felt bad voting for series when I've only read the first book. Why would you vote for one you haven't read?"Ditto!
I know I'm not a moderator for this group, but I'm terribly excited about this poll and would happily help in any way I can. I don't mind counting posts every night, e-mailing, etc.Put me to work!
Have you discussed if you'll include young adult yet? Part of me thinks it's not necessary. Most of us wouldn't want Twilight-ish books on the list. But I don't think any fantasy list would be complete without the Harry Potter books. And my personal list wouldn't be complete without Howl's Moving Castle. The Hobbit can be considered ya, or younger. I don't mind personally either way, just wondering. If you'd want to include them but not let them take over you could limit how many you can put up. If you have 5 books, only 1 can be ya. Shrug. It's a rule to decide on anyway.
I'm going to leave the complicated policy decisions to you guys, but I wanted to stick my hand up and offer to build a web form for this. No-one has to count any votes manually! :)On a technical note, one way of calculating the output would be to use the kind of transferrable voting system used in countries where you rank the candidates and vote in multi-seat constituencies, such as STV - if you want a top 10 you could treat it as an election with space to elect ten of the candidates. That means everyone can supply their 'top N' list and just add as many, in order, as each person wishes.
Anyway, just let me know what you'd like me to code and I'll do it :)
Rachel
I'm ok with YA as long as we don't get into "little kid." What I mean by that would be books like Alanna: The First Adventure. Don't get me wrong, I love the series but it's for younger kids, not really even older teenagers (16+).
I agree. Maybe they should just be left out? I'd rather leave out good ones than have a bunch of teeny romances.
I would like to keep to the belief that the members of this group are mature and sane enough to NOT nominate tweeny romances as their nominations. Maybe more YA that is also enjoyed by an older audience? Going off of what MrsJoseph said, books that are not necessarily geared towards adult audiences, but can still fall in that category.
Not sure about YA. I read quite a bit of it. I got sort of "re-started" reading HP as my kids were still home when the series started. In the long run though the Potter books do remain as young as they start. Also we'll be dealing with the "fad" factor. As in for a while Twilight was voted to the top of every "Best book" list out there and it's fanatical followers couldn't see past it. It has since faded into it's more deserved place. I'd hate to see our "best 100" list dominated by the latest "cute, romantic, angsty teenage vampire" book.
I hope we do make a top 100 list. I've been toting with the idea of setting next year's reading goal to finish at least half of what we come up with. It could be lots of fun!
One of the main complaints about the NPR list was that they didn't include YA or children's literature, even if it was notable. I think we should include it - and I don't think many here would nominate Twilight-esque stuff, anyway. :)
Good news! I've just finished writing my very own romantic, angsty teen novel-but it's with angels so I just know it'll be a top 100...just kidding. I'd never write a book with angels in it. Or angsty teens. Or probably even write a book.
Rachel wrote: "I'm going to leave the complicated policy decisions to you guys, but I wanted to stick my hand up and offer to build a web form for this. No-one has to count any votes manually! :)On a technical ..."
That would be great! Ummm, I have no clue where that would start... :) Help?
Carol wrote: "Good news! I've just finished writing my very own romantic, angsty teen novel-but it's with angels so I just know it'll be a top 100...just kidding. I'd never write a book with angels in it. Or..."
Sorry someone beat you to it.
I don't know what's sadder. That I actually read both of these books. Or that I hardly remember them.
That's how they get you.Lol. There are tweeny books I've enjoyed, just not these.
Why do i have the feeling this won't be done? i think the moderators should just do it the way they want and let the rest of us nominate and vote, that way we won't spend another month discussing how to do it.
It's cool guys just give us a number to nominate, 5 or 10 or whatever and let the games begin...
Fantasy Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
Fallen (other topics)Hush, Hush (other topics)
Alanna: The First Adventure (other topics)
In discussing the books that made NPR's top 100 several people voiced some disappointment about which books made the list and what books were eligible for nomination to the list (Sci-Fi & Fantasy were combined).
My thought:
Let's create our own list in the same way as NPR - send out a mass email to the entire group to ask them to nominate X amount of books. Then we take the nomination list and create a poll. Top whatever number wins.
Tentatively titled: "An Aficionados Guide to the best <100> Fantasy Books"
This thread is to give us a place to make decisions on the rules for nominations, book eligibility, and polling.
We will also decide on the length of time this poll (and list creation) will take.
Check out this thread: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6... to see the beginnings of the conversation but PLEASE try to post all comments/answers/concerns here!