The Way We Live Now, Chap. 85-100

[SarahC]

This thread is to discuss the final section of the novel, chapters titled “Breakfast in Berkeley Square” through “Down in Suffolk.” Please limit spoilers to this section of the reading only.

[Kyle]

What did you think of book's ending? (view spoiler)[Basically, there were six marriages and they all lived miserably or happily ever after?

In the happy camp I would put:
* Hetta/Paul - true young love finds a way
* Lady Carbury/Mr. Broune - true older love finds a way
* Ruby/John - I think Ruby will have to grow into the happiness

On the miserably side I would potentially put
* Georgiana/the pastor - I found it a bit hard to believe Georgie would give up her riches and position for "love", especially since we never got to met her husband.
* Sophia/George - seems like she was just concerned about money and position, and this pales in comparison to others

I'm not sure where to put Marie and Fisker. That marriage caught me by surprise. (hide spoiler)]

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Trollope tied up all the loose ends. And he did it well. Even Felix. I could see Ruby blushing, frankly. (view spoiler)[I think Marie is going to be happy, yet I don't trust Fisker in the least. She was married for her money, yet he seemed to actually have money, so maybe not. But I do think he really cares for Marie, which is what she wanted. Why she ever thought Felix cared for her is an enigma. Roger is odd, just plain odd. Too good, not real. Although the characterizations throughout were somewhat flat, he was just the worst of them, I thought. Totally not believable, and this final act just more so. (hide spoiler)]

[Bea]

I finished the book yesterday and found it a totally satisfying read. Although the book was long, I was never bored for a minute. I think the excellent audiobook I listened to added to my enjoyment. The narrator, Timothy West, was superb - he made each of the many characters distinct without going over the top.

I liked that almost all the characters grew and changed over the course of the story, with the exception of the irredeemable Sir Felix and Melmotte. I was surprised at how much I liked and understood Lady Carbury, Lord Nidderdale, Marie Melmotte, Mrs. Hurtle and even Dolly Longstaffe by the end of the book.

The character I really could never get behind was Paul Montgomery. He was so weak in so many ways that I thought Hetta would be happier in the long run with Roger. I thought it was interesting that Trollope had to go out of his way to write excuses for his hero's behavior at least a couple of times. Roger's behavior at the end of the book seemed truly weird but Paul's acquiesence in the plan made him seem weaker still.

I may have missed something but I never felt like I learned with any kind of certainty whether the railroad itself was illusory. Certainly, Melmotte was a fraud and Fisker seemed really shady at the start. However, at the end of the book Fisker seemed more legitimate and I was wondering if there really was a plan to build a railroad on the U.S. side.

I was rooting for love and marriage for Marie and Lord Nidderdale (it may have been the dreamy soft Scottish brogue of the Lord in the audiobook). I was kind of surprised by the outcome of that subplot. However, Marie did not agree to marriage right away and even if her husband turned out to be a louse, she would retain control of her own money.

[Kyle]

I think the railroad was similiar to Lady Carbury's first book. She wanted to write a popular book, but not necessarilly a good book. In the same light, I think Fisker and Melmotte wanted to raise a lot of money, and if they built a railroad in the process that would be OK. It felt like the railroad was always in the planning and capital-raising stage throughout the entire story.

[D-Dee]

Kyle wrote: "It felt like the railroad was always in the planning and capital-raising stage throughout the entire story..."

Kyle, I felt that the railroad was never beyond the imagination stage of how to swindle money. But, I was surprised that Paul got some of his money back, IF I read that right.

Bea, I didn't think Fisker's character changed at all. I was suspicious when he told Marie he would take care of her money for her. I did not believe his endearments were true and that his insistance to marry was only a way to secure her money before they reached America.

As far as Roger's character went, well I highlighted a lot in that chapter. I read it on a Nook and I was able to change the colors when Roger's thoughts were laid out. I loved how Trollope did that. He showed how Roger was aware of his faults and led the reader through his decision of forgiveness. Although it was strange to me about his decision to regard Hetta as his daughter, I understood why because of the way it was written. Trollope helped me understand although I did not agree.
As far as Marie went I was disappointed. Because I believe Fisker would continue to be a swindler I had hoped Marie would catch on to that and avoid him at all costs. It seems she would not truly get away from men such as her "father."

I think Roger was the most changed character. It was subtle but substantial.

Lady Carbury's true character was demonstrated through her friendship with Mr. Broune. I think he clarified things for her. However, I think she will always feel the way she did for Felix till the end of her life. Although her head understood the folly I think her heart would never change.

Mrs. Hurtle was quite a character. At the end we read the truth about Mr. Hurdle. Trollope wrote: "She had spoken the very truth when she said that she had loved him [Paul] with all her heart." Her subplot was quite a roller coaster!

Any thoughts about the various character developments?

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I think Fisker and Marie will become partners in crime. They will use Marie's money, and whatever Fisker has of his own, to attract those with money and help them "invest" it.

I never thought there would be a railroad. I've seen that territory. ;-)

[D-Dee]

That's a good one, Elizabeth!

[K.]

Bea wrote: "I finished the book yesterday and found it a totally satisfying read. Although the book was long, I was never bored for a minute. I think the excellent audiobook I listened to added to my enjoyme..."

Bea:

You expressed my thoughts about Paul exactly. I thought he was a complete cad.

I haven't been able to participate in this conversation, but I've followed all of your comments with interest. It was a wonderful book, Trollope was a master at characterization, wasn't he?

Thanks to all of you for the comments.

[Marialyce]

I also finished up the novel, but with mixed reactions to the ending. I agree with Elizabeth that Trollope did seem to tie up all the ends, but I was slightly disappointed in the fate of Sir Felix. I sort of felt that Trollope didn't quite know what to do with him so he sent him off to Prussia.

I think Trollope was a masterful character maker. He made all seem real and "touchable." I still carried my liking of Roger to the end and felt he was a "true stiff upper lip Brit" who mustered through his sorrow with dignity and aplomb. Paul continued to be a disappointment to me throughout the story. He was such a wuss and I found I disliked him more and more as the story progressed. Of course Felix and Melmotte were totally villainous in their behavior and the way they treated others as stepping stones to their next deal, or should I say prey? I had absolutely no sympathy for either of them.

I particularly liked Mrs Hurtle and felt that she was the most interesting character. At the end I did believe that she was much better off without Paul although I do think she did love him. (why I don't know!) I think that Trollope showed his respect and admiration for American women through this character. (at least I hope he did)

All in all this was a great novel, one in which Trollope was able to stir up lots of emotions from his audience and I do think that is the sign of a great read for sure.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I'm on the outs, here. I didn't like whiney Roger Carbury who wanted his woman that he didn't really love, but needed someone to take care of his mansion and bear him a child so that the residents would continue to be Carburys.

And I didn't like Mrs. Hurtle who couldn't take no for an answer and kept on trying to wheedle a guy to love her even though he had said Go Away not once, but several times. She had crossed the ocean to chase this guy. She had no self respect and I kept wanting her to get some.

[Marialyce]

I don"t think you are on the outs, Elizabeth. I think that we all admire and read things differently and you certainly can feel whatever you want. I think also that that is what makes Trollope a fine author. It is hard or even impossible to tell how he feels about his characters but he lets us, the reader, form our own opinion.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I didn't phrase that well. I meant I was out, as in the opposite side of the fence from most of you.

Have I said how much I loved this novel?

[Marialyce]

Oh, I missed that. .....and yes, I, too, thought it was a wonderful novel. So glad you did too!

[LauraT]

I'm not finished with it, but I have to say that I liked in the whole. Of these first chapters I want to undreline the behaviour of Nidderdale towards Marie when she called him.
I find him, in the end of the book, the best young mail character of those descrbed.

[Anna]

I've finished with this now and enjoyed it from the first to the last page. 800 pages seemed a bit daunting at the beginning but it actually read very quickly. The characters were well delienated and I shall definitely be reading more Trollope if this is characteristic of his work.

[Kristen]

I highly enjoyed this read. I agree with others here about Trollope's talent for characterization. I really took an interest in the characters, and kept reading because I was dying to know what would become of them.

I will admit though, that the tying up of loose ends in the finale was a bit too neatly packaged for my taste. I felt that there was such a great build up of risk and dishonesty, I really expected everything to come crashing down. Really it seems that Trollope only punishes Melmotte and Felix Carbury. Melmotte humiliates himself in Parliament, and then commits sucide, and Felix quite literally takes a beating, (which you gotta love!!!)and then is sort of tricked into being banished from London. I was sort of hoping for a train wreck (metaphorically!), after all the dishonesty. Someone had commented in an earlier thread that they couldn't get into the novel, and I responded that the intrigue for me was sort of akin to "watching a train wreck". I felt that disaster was coming, and felt that the all the different issues were so quickly solved, and that the reader wasn't privileged to many details at all. I went back and read the Intro in my B&N version, and the writer says that moral order is re-established. My question is how??? Trollope does not really illustrate the details of how this order comes about after each characters self-induced life complications. If only real life turned out so well so easily! The only real glimpse I saw of a true-to-life personal humbling was in that of Lady Carbury. She learns what true friendship is and sees it displayed in Mr. Broune, without manipulation (for once) on her part. She actually takes advice from someone she respects, both in her literary aspirations and in her dealings with Felix.

Still, despite my dissatisfaction with the ending, I really loved this book. I was truly fascinated by the way Trollope depicts social and moral compromise.