The Way We Live Now, Chap. 1-16

[Barbara]

It will be interesting to see if/how Melmotte's and Lady Carbury's grand plans collapse. If I know Trollope, it'll be good.

[LauraT]

Think so too Barbara!

[Barbara]

Just crossed over to Chapter 17. See you at the next thread, guys.

[Susan Margaret]

So far I am not liking Matilda Carbury. I think she is enabling her son Felix and thereby allowing him to fail. I get the feeling that Felix is a morally corrupt person. Time and more reading will tell.

I am a little late in joining in on this conversation, but hope to catch up soon. I just finished Hunchback of Notre Dame so I was a bit behind on this Trollope book.

[SarahC]

Seeuder,

Yes, Matilda has produced many of her own problems. The expression I have heard before, she has "raised a child, but not an adult" in Felix.

I have read farther ahead in the story, but I am still only seeing Felix as more ignorant than anything. He is operating in a world without examples of behaving nobly. He may not understand results of actions, affects on other people, especially if Matilda had not taught him these important things. He seems to be extremely narrow in scope. Regardless of the happenings around him, he simply returns to the club each night to drink and gamble and then home to bed in the morning. He seems to not understand the importance of living any other way. Related to what I said above, regardless of the troubles, he simply goes out to play each night, like a child.

[Barbara]

I have a feeling that, because he has a title, he thinks the rules don't apply to him. People who act responsibly don't serve as examples of how to behave; he thinks they're boring. Witness Roger. If he lived in 2011, he'd be rude to waiters.

[SarahC]

Roger would be rude to waiters? or did you mean Felix? You are right that Felix is not interested in taking any advice from Roger and he knows Roger is openly critical of him, so I think they have a stand-off!

Marialyce made the comment within the next threads, that the story isn't about only money. In a similar vein, I am not sure that it is so simple about the titled characters either. It seems more about the fluctuation of what they think they want -- what they think is the modern way -- and then how these things begin to fluctuate.

And it is also interesting the different ranks among the titled. Felix is "only a baronet, and that's all he'll ever be," as someone says at some point. Meaning that's he is not to inherit a great estate or estates. He has already sunk his lot and most people know that, so knows his "trading" ability is iffy.

[Barbara]

SarahC wrote: "Roger would be rude to waiters? or did you mean Felix? I meant Felix. I totally agree with what you have said. However, does Felix know that's what people think of him? I'm not so sure.
He kind of reminds me of the brother and sister in Little Dorrit. Once they reached what they thought was their pinnacle, they stopped asking questions.

[SarahC]

Barbara,

Felix may not know that people think he's a bit of a wash-up. And I do think Matilda builds him up so much that he probably has a superior attitude enough to not let anything bother him too much!

Yes, the Dorrit siblings went through some pretty good upending too -- fortunes made and fortunes lost, the fallout of the great swindle, etc. I think many of these characters will be looking at the same circumstances in this story. (well not the very same, --these people did not grow up in a prison--, but overall similar happenings)haha

[LauraT]

I also think that at least part of Felix generation was brought up that way, not considering the results of their actions - or non actions. Think about Miles Grendhall or Dolly Longstaff, or all his other frineds at the club who don't worry to pay what the lose at the card table.
The Way We Live Now is not only critical towards the new men who are changing the habits od old England, but also towards the gentry and nobility who are not up to their role. At least this is what I think.

[Kristen]

LauraT wrote: "I also think that at least part of Felix generation was brought up that way, not considering the results of their actions - or non actions. Think about Miles Grendhall or Dolly Longstaff, or all hi..."

that's an interesting point.

[Barbara]

"The Way We Live Now is not only critical towards the new men who are changing the habits od old England, but also towards the gentry and nobility who are not up to their role. At least this is what I think."

Excellent insight. You're right.

[SarahC]

I think that criticism is there also. It certainly seems the aristocracy is allowing themselves to be bought -- at least at this point in the story!

[D-Dee]

Kristen wrote: "So far Roger seems to be the voice of reason and virtue in a cast of male characters who are rather careless with their dealings in money. ..."

Kristen, at first I thought like you did, but I read at the end of Chapter 8:
"Roger Carbury did not quite believe in the forgiveness of injuries. If you pardon all the evil done to you, you encourage others to do you evil! If you give your cloak to him who steals your coat, how long will it be, before your shirt and trousers will go also?"

I think this shows a different side to him.

[Kyle]

Roger's unforgiving heart is very anti-Christian, and it seemed a bit uncharacteristic to his high morals. I think he was speaking as a scorned lover. Having finished the book, I will say this topic is revisitied.

[D-Dee]

Kyle wrote: "Roger's unforgiving heart is very anti-Christian, and it seemed a bit uncharacteristic to his high morals. ..."

This is exactly what I think.

[Lily]

I just got a chance to really read TWWLN yesterday and today, so probably won't have much to add to all the insightful comments for awhile. (I finished Chapter 16 just a bit ago.) But my thanks to all the other readers for yours.

@23 Kyle asked "Why do you think Roger and Matilda both feel like Roger's chances of matrimony are non-existent unless Henrietta accepts his proposal?"

(Since that can be addressed within the context of these 16 chapters, I am not using the spoiler designation.) My response would be that Trollope uses this as a way to delineate Roger's character to the reader -- regardless of whether the characterization changes over the course of the novel. (It is one of the things I am curious to find out and which will keep me reading.)

I have been asking myself why Trollope has not remained as popular as some other novelists and whether interest in him is likely to see a rebirth. In checking out Orley Farm , I encountered the following quip which already seems as if it might be applicable to TWWLN:

"...Anyone with exposure to a legal system with its basis in the English common law will understand the perceptive analysis it is subjected to in Orley Farm. The distinction between evil deeds and the often sympathetic humans that are their authors is one that modern American culture often forgets to make...."

http://www.amazon.com/Orley-farm-Anth...

[Lily]

@20Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "I don't recall that she left her husband,...."

As Kyle said, it is in the early chapters, in fact, very early, Chapter II, "The Carbury Family." There are at least two relevant passages, easy to miss or not totally understand -- from my 21st century view, I am not certain I totally appreciate the nature or extent of the scandal, at least as readily as Trollope's original readers probably did.

"...But Sir Carbury became jealous, spoke words which even she could not endure, did things which drove even her beyond the calculations of her prudence,--and she left him. But even this she did in so guarded a way that, as to every step she took, she could prove her innocence. Her life at that period is of little moment to our story, except that it is essential that the reader should know in what she had been slandered. For a month or two all hard words had been said against her by her husband's friends, and even by Sir Patrick himself. But gradually the truth was known, and after a year's separation they came again together and she remained the mistress of his house till he died. She brought him home to England, but during the short period left to him of life in his old country he had been a worn-out, dying invalid. But the scandal of her great misfortune had followed her, and some people were never tired of reminding others that in the course of her married life Lady Carbury had run away from her husband, and had been taken back again by the kind-hearted old gentleman."

"...To be scolded, watched, beaten, and sworn at by a choleric old man till she was at last driven out of her house by the violence of his ill-usage; to be taken back as a favour with the assurance that her name would for the remainder of her life be unjustly tarnished; to have her flight constantly thrown in her face; and then at last to become for a year or two the nurse of a dying debauchee, was a high price to pay for such good things as she had hitherto enjoyed. Now at length had come to her a period of relaxation -- her reward, her freedom, her chance of happiness...."

http://www.online-literature.com/anth...

[Lily]

@6 Marialyce wrote: "...I am always somewhat taken aback in these novels of the demeaning way in which the Jews are mentioned..."

Perhaps not quite so virulent (maybe that is too strong for Trollope, at least so far), but it seemed to me there is a similar "outsider" distrusted attitude towards Americans:

"...Nidderdale, who did not understand much about the races of mankind, had his doubts whether the American gentleman might not be a 'Heathen Chinee,' such as he had read of in poetry...."

"...Not one there had liked Fisker. His manners were not as their manners; his waistcoat not as their waistcoats. He smoked his cigar after a fashion different from theirs, and spat upon the carpet. He said 'my lord' too often, and grated their prejudices equally whether he treated them with familiarity or deference. But he had behaved well about the money, and they felt that they were behaving badly...."

"'He's not half a bad fellow, but he's not a bit like an Englishman,' said Lord Nidderdale, as he walked out of the station." Chapter 10, "Mr. Fisker's Success"

http://www.online-literature.com/anth...

(Is "Fisker" as a name a play on the word "frisker"?)