Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion
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A Storm of Swords (A Song of Ice and Fire, #3) by George R.R. Martin (buddy 3rd in series read) start date August 10th
Questions for Chapter 60 (Tyrion) to Chapter 63 (Davos)152. Tyrion concluded King Joffrey was behind the assassination attempt on Bran. Do you think this is true?
It makes perfect sense to me!
153. Tyrion’s has been unappreciated for his role in the victory of the Battle of the Blackwater, despises by the inhabitants of Kings’ Landing, given a wife who doesn’t want him, been made the butt of jests of at court, and now accused of a crime he didn’t commit. He’s not having much luck lately. How do you think his trial will go?
It won't go well for him. He made a lot of enemies when he was Hand, and now it will come back to haunt him. He doesn't have many supporters, that's for sure.
154. King Joffrey is dead! **Lisa Kay does happy dance.** Did you think at first he was really dying? Or just chocking? We know Tyrion didn’t do it; so, who did? Cersei must really hate Tyrion to accuse him of regicide and kinslaying. Or do you think she really believes Tyrion did kill her son?
DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD! No, I didn't think we'd be so lucky. I thought he was just choking. Someone took the amethyst out of Sansa's net and put it in the wine. Margaery's grandmother spent a lot of time fussing with Sansa's hair just before the wedding feast (Tyrion-Chapter 60). Could it have been her?
I do believe that Cersei thinks Tyrion did it. He threatened to harm Joffrey often enough, and he threatened to do something that would make Cersei very sad.
155. Sansa finally ran off with “Ser” Dontos, only to be betrayed. Was Littlefinger’s interaction with Sansa a little creepy, or what? All I can say is out of the frying pan and into the fire. True?
I did not see that coming at all! Wow, Littlefinger was behind it. Crazy! I honestly don't know if he has good or bad intentions toward Sansa. He did love her mother, so maybe he really does want to protect her. We can only hope!
156. We are given several answers, but more questions too. It was cruel of Littlefinger to set up the jousting dwarfs. Did he plan it all? Even the misdirect of Tyrion as scapegoat for Joffrey’s murder?
He must have planned it all, since that night had been set as the escape night long ago. He certainly had no love for Tyrion.
157. Cersei wouldn’t let Jaime hold his son when he was born? She continues to be the omnipotent b!tch, IMO. What did you think of Jaime’s reaction to hearing of his son’s death?
These two are both very disturbed. She didn't let him hold Joff since she didn't want to spill the beans about their relationship. She never let him get close to the child, so he never had a chance to bond with Joff which is why he feels nothing when Joff dies. His concern is more for how Cersei is feeling.
158. Again Jaime intervenes for Brienne, saving her from Ser Loras Tyrell’s wrath. How will her trial go? Will there even be one? I mean, she supposedly killed a traitor, right?
I don't think there will be a trial. Jaime won't let it happen.
159. Ick. Sex on the alter with your sibling with your dead son nearby? Talk about breaking a few commandments or any sense of propriety. Comments.
Oh my gosh, I was thinking how could get this any worse? Oh, yeah, let's also throw in Aunt Flo, not to mention the fact that these two are twins!
160. Do you think Jaime will listen to Tyrion’s side of things? Will Jaime be forced to choose between his two siblings?
I would hope Jaime would listen to Tyrion. At least he doesn't have to be a judge in the matter.
161. Whoa! Who knew Davos, now Lord Rainwood, Admiral of the Narrow Sea, had it in him to rescue Edric? Why didn’t Melisandre foresee this turn of events; because it was NOT directed at her? Has Davos’ luck finally run out?
Way to go, Davos...but, crap, can't the creepy lady find the kid anyway? I'm not so sure he's safe.
@Sandy#152 - Okay, Sandy. I'll go with it for now. Still not 100% sure, but the little pissant sure acted plenty guilty with all that talk of a dagger.
#153 - Ditto!
#154 - LOL! Yes! Ding Dong! **Lisa Kay singing along with Sandy** I don't think Cersei believes Tyrion did it; I think she just hates him.
#155 - I didn't see this coming either. I thought Sansa was clear about NOT going. Also, at the tourney I didn't think he was that creepy, but I think Lisarenee did (right?). Now I think his actions and touching are pretty creepy. He wants the daughter. And what is with Cat remembering she lost her maidenhead to Ned and Littlefinger believing he did the deed? Did Lysa sneak into his bed and pretend to be Cat? What gives?
#156 - I agree.
#157 - Yes, but an "uncle" can't hold his "nephew"? I mean, if the kid looks like him it is b/c he looks like the mother - his twin.
#158 - Ah!
#159 - FOFLMAO! Oh, Lord, you are killing me, Sandy!!
#160 - I'm betting he is going to pick a side - and it will be Tyrion's and then no more altar sex for him.
#161 - Ditto.
@Lisa Kay:#154 -- If Cersei doesn't think it was Tyrion, do you think she has another suspect? Does she think it was accidental?
#155 -- Lysa pretending to be Cat? Yes, could be!
#157 -- Good point, Uncle should be able to hold nephew. Maybe main concern was they looked too much alike...but J/C are twins....OK, she is just a b-tch.No other explanation necessary.
#160-- I agree he would pick Tyrion's side. I think after the altar sex (ha!) they each realized the other had changed, and not for the better (in their respective opinions).
Questions for Chapter 64 (Jon) through Chapter 67 (Jaime)162. Another battle at the wall! Again, I thought all was lost but the brothers triumph. Does the Wall really protect itself or was it just good strategic planning?
163. Jon now commands the Wall (at least temporarily). I keep forgetting he is so young! He’s what, 16 or 17? Yep, Ygritte is dead and burned. No bastard heir (yet). Do you we know how far away Sam and Bran are from Jon?
164. I’m relieved that Arya is safe. How sad she saw her mother dead when she was dreaming! I had forgotten about Lysa…good idea to take her there. The Hound says Arya’s not worth spit to him now, so why does he continue to take care of her?
165. OK, now the Hound wants to take Arya to Riverrun but she wants to go to the Wall. To me, neither sounds like a safe option! Do you think she would be better off with Blackfish or with Jon Snow?
166. Wow, even Bronn won’t fight for Tyrion now. Does he have a chance at all? Seems nobody minds lying at the trial. If Tyrion does confess, do you believe Tywin would send him to the Wall?
167. Hmmm, Oberyn as champion. I like it…a chance to kill his sister’s murderer. Should be a good fight! However, do you think the Mountain would come as commanded? I get the feeling he may go rogue.
168. Do you think Jaime can be a successful Commander of the Kingsguard with only one hand? He’s not getting respect from everyone. Will Ser Boros pay for his insolence?
169. I think Jaime has almost convinced Loras that Brienne didn’t kill Renly. It appears Jaime believes a shadow was the culprit. Does his belief have more to do with his belief in supernatural occurrence or his faith in Brienne? So, if/when Brienne is released, what will she do? Stay in King’s Landing?
170. Regarding Ser Loras, Knight of the Flowers, in the TV series, it’s made explicitly clear that he and Renly are lovers. So, as I’ve been reading, I’ve been looking for clues to this wondering if GRRM wrote it that way or if the producers were taking artistic license. There are hints such as the “Rainbow Guard” and the fact that Margaery is still a virgin, but I never saw anything definitive until one scene in which Jaime tells Loras, “I’ll take it [the sword] from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.” (Chapter 62 Jaime) So to me this was saying, yes they had been lovers and people knew about it. Anyway, my main point here is that if they were, why wasn’t it made more explicit? Would a relationship such as this alienate readers? It’s ok to have incestuous twins but not two men in love? Thoughts?
I was gonna try and answer some questions, but I'm so disgusted with all the twists and turns... I'm even wondering if it's worth me reading the next book.It made me extremely mad that everyone was lying at Tyrion's trial. But of course what did I expect?!
I do believe Jamie can be a very Successful Commander, and it matters not he is missing a hand. Look at Tyrion, he's a dwarf and he was really good at being the hand....wait..that's kinda weird. Tyrion was the King's hand and now Jamie has Lost his hand that gave him the most power. I wonder if that was done purposely to mean something.
oh well doesn't matter.
Sandy I was thinking the same thing about Loras. Why keep it so hidden in the book when he made everything else so gross. another part that leaned toward Loras being gay was when Jamie calls for him and he says "Tell Loras I'm ready to see her now" and the man he was talking to was confused and Jamie was like just tell Loras to come here.
Seriously this whole part of the book made me say over and over in my head while reading insert some really really bad words, mostly the *F Bomb* used as an adjective, verb and noun
Kellyflower, maybe it will get better?? Nah, probably not until the very end!Interesting about the hand and the Hand...hmmmmm, you may be onto something. I still think Jaime with no hand will somehow battle Tywin the Hand.
I don't recall the quote Loras = her...good catch!
I wonder if things will get even worse before they get better. I have to keep reading, though, just to see what happens. *sigh*
Lisa Kay’s Answers to Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 64 (Jon) through Chapter 67 (Jaime) 162. Another battle at the wall! Again, I thought all was lost but the brothers triumph. Does the Wall really protect itself or was it just good strategic planning?
The Wall
I think the Wall is pretty formidable, but Jon Snow was awesome. He led his men, such as they were, showing his leadership skills. I think, given enough time, the wildlings, or Free Folk, could have scaled the wall, even if it is 700 feet high.
163. Jon now commands the Wall (at least temporarily). I keep forgetting he is so young! He’s what, 16 or 17? Yep, Ygritte is dead and burned. No bastard heir (yet). Do you we know how far away Sam and Bran are from Jon?
I believe Jon Snow is 16 now. If you look at your “Beyond the Wall map” in the front of your book, you can see the positions of the nineteen fortresses built along the Wall. Sam and Bran were last at Nightfort #8, and Jon Snow is at Castle black #11.
164. I’m relieved that Arya is safe. How sad she saw her mother dead when she was dreaming! I had forgotten about Lysa…good idea to take her there. The Hound says Arya’s not worth spit to him now, so why does he continue to take care of her?
Yes, but what was that “white” think Arya dream wolf was pulling out of the water? Nope, I don’t think it is a good idea to take Arya to the Nut Bunny. The Hound… who can explain the Hound? Some of this has to do with her being a child. The rest? Well, I don’t think the core of him is as bad as he is painted. He was doing his job, a loathsome as it was. Maybe he got off on some of it, but a part of him is sick of it all now.
165. OK, now the Hound wants to take Arya to Riverrun but she wants to go to the Wall. To me, neither sounds like a safe option! Do you think she would be better off with Blackfish or with Jon Snow?
Personally, I think she is better off with Jon Snow. But, I don’t think she’ll get there. She is going to remain lost and wandering until Nymeria, her direwolf, is found.
166. Wow, even Bronn won’t fight for Tyrion now. Does he have a chance at all? Seems nobody minds lying at the trial. If Tyrion does confess, do you believe Tywin would send him to the Wall?
I like that Tyrion defended Bronn’s actions; he knows his nature. I say he has some change, though Prince Oberyn Martell as champion was a huge surprise. The trial is total frustration for me! I don’t think Tyrion will confess, but Tywin might send him to the Wall. For all I know, Tywin may have orchestrated Joffery’s killing; he was one of my prime suspects until Littlefinger showed up.
167. Hmmm, Oberyn as champion. I like it…a chance to kill his sister’s murderer. Should be a good fight! However, do you think the Mountain would come as commanded? I get the feeling he may go rogue.
I had to refer to the appendix again in order to remember Prince Oberyn Martell, the Red Viper, was the brother-in-law to Rhaegar Targaryen. (Now if I could just keep all the tourneys straight.) So, yeah, I think he has enough hate in him, after the murder and rape of his sister, to kill even The Mountain. I don’t think the Mountain will back down.
168. Do you think Jaime can be a successful Commander of the Kingsguard with only one hand? He’s not getting respect from everyone. Will Ser Boros pay for his insolence?
Yes, I think he’ll do alright, especially after he gets his gold hand and learned to fight with his left. Ser Boros is going down.
169. I think Jaime has almost convinced Loras that Brienne didn’t kill Renly. It appears Jaime believes a shadow was the culprit. Does his belief have more to do with his belief in supernatural occurrence or his faith in Brienne? So, if/when Brienne is released, what will she do? Stay in King’s Landing?
Wow! Great question. I’m going to hedge my bet and say a little of both, but I lean toward faith in Brienne. I haven’t a clue what Brienne will do now that Catelyn is supposedly dead. Probably stay with Jaime.
170. Regarding Ser Loras, Knight of the Flowers, in the TV series, it’s made explicitly clear that he and Renly are lovers. So, as I’ve been reading, I’ve been looking for clues to this wondering if GRRM wrote it that way or if the producers were taking artistic license. There are hints such as the “Rainbow Guard” and the fact that Margaery is still a virgin, but I never saw anything definitive until one scene in which Jaime tells Loras, “I’ll take it [the sword] from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.” (Chapter 62 Jaime) So to me this was saying, yes they had been lovers and people knew about it. Anyway, my main point here is that if they were, why wasn’t it made more explicit? Would a relationship such as this alienate readers? It’s ok to have incestuous twins but not two men in love? Thoughts?
Whoa! Really? I was so disappointed in what he said about Sansa being in on King Joffrey’s killing. See why I relate to her? I’m still so naïve sometimes. It is my understanding that GRRM worked closely with the producers and director, giving them insights into characters; so, I would have to say Ser Loras’ sexual persuasion is probably true.
However, I figured, since Queen Margaery was still a maiden that King Renly was gay, but I didn’t know about Ser Loras. Good catch on the quote! I remember reading it, but totally missed it as having any truth and thought it just a throw away insult. (And Jaime is one to talk?) Beats the poo out of me why it wasn’t made more explicit. Maybe it has to do with some plot point yet to be revealed? And, yeah, don’t forget Prince Oberyn’s comment about a possible ménage à trois with his mistress, Ellaria Sand, and Queen Cersei. That’s okay to mention?
I can do the questions for tomorrow, if you like, Lisarenee.
@Lisa Kay#163--The map! Of course that would help....unfortunately I am reading an e-book and I can't read the little words!
#164 -- I thought the white thing was her mother's body.
:-(
#166 -- I had to go back and read some of this chapter after Oberyn said he would be his champion, then it hit me that he was Elia's brother.
@Sandy#164 - I think you are right. Could she still be alive? We had a triple murder/sucide here a couple of decades ago; the guy went berserk and killed all his kids too. The last little girl survived, even with her throat slit.
#166 - Yeah. Seems I'm referring to the appendix more in this book than I did in ACoK - but not as much as AGoT.
*trying not to peek* I'm 4 chapters off from being up-to-date with the reading. I can't believe I fell behind.
I think it is pretty easy to fall behind. This is a much bigger book. I agree that we need to plan a "catch up" day or maybe two for the next book.I'll plan on doing the questions for tomorrow, Lisarenee!
Questions for Chapter 68 (Sansa) to Chapter 71 (Daenerys) 171. It began in Sansa’s last chapter (61), that first niggling doubt that she might not have been better off with Tyrion. Hindsight being such a wondrous thing, it rises again. Will Sansa continue to compare her marriage to Tyrion with her currently precarious situation and finally realize some truth about Tyrion as the story goes on? Ugh! Being married to Robert, she just might!
172. “A harp can be a dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.” Lord Petyr Baelish, Littlefinger, has a way of twisting words to suit his purpose. Right off the bat, we hear more half-truths regarding Tyrion character when Littlefinger tells Sansa her husband turned his first wife over to the guards when he grew tired of her. Later Littlefinger tells her, “Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean.” And more good advice with, “When you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him.” Will Sansa ever figure out what Littlefinger’s “songs” to her are manipulations, find out his wants, maneuver him to do her bidding, all the while keeping her hands clean? Is even that possible by the end of this series?
173. What did I say about time in my last set of answers regarding the Wall? It has been there for 8,000 years and it looks like Mance Rayder means to fight that long. I was wondering how long Jon Snow could keep battling when Ser Allister Thorne and Lord Janos Slynt show up! How will Lord Janos deal with Jon Snow’s “treason”?
174. Were you as sad as I was that even Podrick Payne, Tyrion’s squire, believes Tyrion guilty?
175. And Shae! How could she lie in court about Tyrion? What was her motive? Gold, prestige, hatred, or coercion?
176. Did you think Tyrion was going to confess to King Joffrey’s murder and hope he’d be sent to the Wall? Were you surprised by the confession he gave?
177. Before it began, who did you believe was going to win Tyrion’s trial by battle? There at the end, did you think Prince Oberyn was going to have a victory over Ser Gregor? What does a draw mean for Tyrion?
178. Joso’s Cock? Well now we know how Dany conquered Meereen. As well as the “three treasons”. Do you feel she should have forgiven Ser Jorah? Will not doing so come back to haunt her? Or only her dreams?
179. Were you surprised that Dany decided to stay?
Questions for Chapter 72 - Chapter 75180) What did you think about the fake Arya? For a second I thought maybe we'd missed something and Arya had been captured.
181) Do you think Jaime is done with Cersei? Do you think he's seeing her in a different light? Perhaps experiencing feelings of regret?
182) Why does Jaime sound so...depressed, like he's going to die.. perhaps a tad bit suicidal when he talks to Brienne? Anyone else get that vibe?
183) Do you think Slynt sent Jon on what he figured would be a suicidal mission?
184) I was wrong about the horn of winter. Still not sure what it does. Did they say something about it calling giants or something?
185) Surprised Stannis sent men?
186) Surprised Arya left the Hound? Did you think she might forgive him?
187) What do you think of the Hound? Do you think he's haunted by what he's done? Do you think he had a choice?
188)Anyone else get a bit confused by how much information seems to be skipped then later explained? I keep wondering if I missed something. These last chapters seem to be choppy and hard to follow almost like Martin didn't know how to fit it all in and hurriedly tried to bring it all to an end.
189)Sam's back, but what happened to Bran? I'm confused. He's in hiding, but where? What happened?
190) Who do you think will rule that wall? Will Samwell throw in his cap? What will happen to Jon? Was everything decided?
188)Anyone else get a bit confused by how much information seems to be skipped then later explained? I keep wondering if I missed something. These last chapters seem to be choppy and hard to follow almost like Martin didn't know how to fit it all in and hurriedly tried to bring it all to an end.Lisa, this is why I'm not sure I'll read the next book. These last few chapters just seem ridiculous to me. Starting with Little Finger marrying Lyssa,it just didn't fit. It kinda read very juvenile to me.
It seems to me like Martin likes twisting as much stuff as he can, just because he can!
I wish Arya would have given the hound Mercy. Then I could believe she still had a little bit of innocence, nice-ness left in her. Do I believe he deserved Mercy? No.
I'm concerned for Jamie...I think he's gonna "pay his debts" and do something foolish.
Questions for Chapter 68 (Sansa) to Chapter 71 (Daenerys) 171. It began in Sansa’s last chapter (61), that first niggling doubt that she might not have been better off with Tyrion. Hindsight being such a wondrous thing, it rises again. Will Sansa continue to compare her marriage to Tyrion with her currently precarious situation and finally realize some truth about Tyrion as the story goes on? Ugh! Being married to Robert, she just might!
I just don't know what will happen to her. She'll probably endure a lot of suffering before all is said and done. Sounds like she was safer at King's Landing, sad to say.
172. “A harp can be a dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.” Lord Petyr Baelish, Littlefinger, has a way of twisting words to suit his purpose. Right off the bat, we hear more half-truths regarding Tyrion character when Littlefinger tells Sansa her husband turned his first wife over to the guards when he grew tired of her. Later Littlefinger tells her, “Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean.” And more good advice with, “When you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him.” Will Sansa ever figure out what Littlefinger’s “songs” to her are manipulations, find out his wants, maneuver him to do her bidding, all the while keeping her hands clean? Is even that possible by the end of this series?
I would hope she learns to play the game after being burned so much. I think we the readers are also manipulated into thinking certain things about characters/events based on whose point of view we are getting.
173. What did I say about time in my last set of answers regarding the Wall? It has been there for 8,000 years and it looks like Mance Rayder means to fight that long. I was wondering how long Jon Snow could keep battling when Ser Allister Thorne and Lord Janos Slynt show up! How will Lord Janos deal with Jon Snow’s “treason”?
I don't think it will be good times for Jon.
174. Were you as sad as I was that even Podrick Payne, Tyrion’s squire, believes Tyrion guilty?
Yes, but Shae was worse.
175. And Shae! How could she lie in court about Tyrion? What was her motive? Gold, prestige, hatred, or coercion?
This was a horrible scene. The whole time, I kept thinking Tyrion was having a bad dream. I couldn't believe Shae would betray him like that. I hope it was coercion and not gold.
176. Did you think Tyrion was going to confess to King Joffrey’s murder and hope he’d be sent to the Wall? Were you surprised by the confession he gave? I did not expect him to confess since he doesn't trust Tywin. The confession wasn't surprising considering what he said when he was on trial at the Eyrie.
177. Before it began, who did you believe was going to win Tyrion’s trial by battle? There at the end, did you think Prince Oberyn was going to have a victory over Ser Gregor? What does a draw mean for Tyrion?
I really did think Oberyn would win. This was such a gripping scene!
178. Joso’s Cock? Well now we know how Dany conquered Meereen. As well as the “three treasons”. Do you feel she should have forgiven Ser Jorah? Will not doing so come back to haunt her? Or only her dreams?
I do feel she should have forgiven him. I don't think he would turn against her because he really does love her. ON the other hand....
179. Were you surprised that Dany decided to stay?
Yes, so in next book she's in Meereen the whole time waiting for her dragons to grow?
Lisa Kay Answers Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 72 - Chapter 75 180) What did you think about the fake Arya? For a second I thought maybe we'd missed something and Arya had been captured.
For a split second I was confused too, but there was a hint in an earlier chapter that something hinky was going on, as we knew Arya’s true location then.
181) Do you think Jaime is done with Cersei? Do you think he's seeing her in a different light? Perhaps experiencing feelings of regret?
Yes, that romance is dying fast. Yes, he is getting an eyeful. She was such a hateful b!ich to him.
182) Why does Jaime sound so...depressed, like he's going to die.. perhaps a tad bit suicidal when he talks to Brienne? Anyone else get that vibe?
Yes, I think you are right.
183) Do you think Slynt sent Jon on what he figured would be a suicidal mission?
Yes. He figured Jon would be killed.
184) I was wrong about the horn of winter. Still not sure what it does. Did they say something about it calling giants or something?
That threw me too. What was that other horn they found? Yeah, it would call giants from the earth and bring down the Wall. What with the earthquake last week in the East, I’m thinking maybe that would fulfill both avowals.
185) Surprised Stannis sent men?
I was totally surprised. I couldn’t figure out who they were. Not only do I wonder what Davos is thinking/doing, but I’m not 100% sure why King Stannis did so.
186) Surprised Arya left the Hound? Did you think she might forgive him?
I was very surprised she left him. Yes. I thought she might forgive him.
187) What do you think of the Hound? Do you think he's haunted by what he's done? Do you think he had a choice?
I think he has regrets and is haunted. He didn’t have a lot of choice, but he had some. And he didn’t have to be as brutal as he was.
188) Anyone else get a bit confused by how much information seems to be skipped then later explained? I keep wondering if I missed something. These last chapters seem to be choppy and hard to follow almost like Martin didn't know how to fit it all in and hurriedly tried to bring it all to an end.
I agree. Certainly choppy for GRRM! He usually gives such detail.
189) Sam's back, but what happened to Bran? I'm confused. He's in hiding, but where? What happened?
Bran is off in search of “the three-eyed crow” – whatever or whoever that is. I’m still not sure why Sam couldn’t tell Jon that Bran was alive. He and Bran know Jon is trustworthy with this info.
190) Who do you think will rule that wall? Will Samwell throw in his cap? What will happen to Jon? Was everything decided?
I don’t know what GRRM has planned. I want to say Jon Snow will win the day, but maybe that is my own wishful thinking. I don’t think Samwell will rule. Nothing has been decided. It could go on for years!
Questions for Chapter 76 (Jon) - Chapter 79 (Jon)191) Should Jon have said no to being Lord of Winterfell? Oh, and for the record I still think we're going to find out something about Jon's mother that we still haven;t heard. I'm just not sure what. I think there's still a mystery there.
192) When Ghost came back it was the deciding factor for Jon what his choice would be. Do you think everything will come down to a war between Gods? Do we know who Dany believes in?
193) We now know Tansy is Tysha. Virtual high five to Lisa Kay for being my partner in thinking that might me the case. So now it would appear she had a child that wasn't Tyrion's. Remember what Catelyn's father said about the next one being trueborn.
194) Would you have believed Tyrion would kill his father? Will he find Tysha? Are they still married? Did Tysha actually give birth to Tyrion's child? So many questions. So many unanswered questions.
195) I know Tyrion lied about killing Joffrey because he was mad at his brother. Do you think this will come back to bite him in the butt later? Q
196) Without Tywin around what do you think will happen?
197) Loving Samwell more and more all the time. Clever lad. Were you surprised he lied and got Jon elected as master of the wall?
198) Do you like the fact that Jon is now the in charge of the Wall?
Kellyflower, I don't think I could stop reading at this point even if I wanted to. I need to know what happens.
Questions for Chapter 72 - Chapter 75180) What did you think about the fake Arya? For a second I thought maybe we'd missed something and Arya had been captured.
At first I thought time had passed since the girl had long hair. Glad it wasn't our real Arya!
181) Do you think Jaime is done with Cersei? Do you think he's seeing her in a different light? Perhaps experiencing feelings of regret?
I think his love for her (well, their love for each other) is pathological, so, no, I don't think he is through with her. He wants to go public with their relationship(!).
182) Why does Jaime sound so...depressed, like he's going to die.. perhaps a tad bit suicidal when he talks to Brienne? Anyone else get that vibe?
I think he's down but not necessarily suicidal. He seems resigned to his current predicament.
183) Do you think Slynt sent Jon on what he figured would be a suicidal mission?
Yes, that's what I was thinking.
184) I was wrong about the horn of winter. Still not sure what it does. Did they say something about it calling giants or something?
That's what I think it does.
185) Surprised Stannis sent men?
Yes! Pleasantly surprised!
186) Surprised Arya left the Hound? Did you think she might forgive him?
I guess I wasn't surprised since he was no longer able to protect her. I do think she will forgive him since he helped her survive for a time.
187) What do you think of the Hound? Do you think he's haunted by what he's done? Do you think he had a choice?
I think he was a product of his upbringing. I can't imagine not feeling haunted by causing so much death and destruction.
188)Anyone else get a bit confused by how much information seems to be skipped then later explained? I keep wondering if I missed something. These last chapters seem to be choppy and hard to follow almost like Martin didn't know how to fit it all in and hurriedly tried to bring it all to an end.
It's a little jarring when you see a new situation, but you didn't actually "see" how it came to be.
189)Sam's back, but what happened to Bran? I'm confused. He's in hiding, but where? What happened?
Bran is riding an elk looking for the 3-eyed crow.
190) Who do you think will rule that wall? Will Samwell throw in his cap? What will happen to Jon? Was everything decided?
Since I've read this part, I'll refrain from answering now.
I read through to the end also, Lisarenee!
Questions for Chapter 76 (Jon) - Chapter 79 (Jon)191) Should Jon have said no to being Lord of Winterfell? Oh, and for the record I still think we're going to find out something about Jon's mother that we still haven;t heard. I'm just not sure what. I think there's still a mystery there.
Yes, I hope we do find out about the mystery mom.
If Jon had taken up Stannis on his offer, that would have been to easy. We need to have more of a struggle here for our Jon Snow.
192) When Ghost came back it was the deciding factor for Jon what his choice would be. Do you think everything will come down to a war between Gods? Do we know who Dany believes in?
I don't know...need to think on this one.
193) We now know Tansy is Tysha. Virtual high five to Lisa Kay for being my partner in thinking that might me the case. So now it would appear she had a child that wasn't Tyrion's. Remember what Catelyn's father said about the next one being trueborn.
OK, this went completely over my head. how do we know Tansy is Tysha?
194) Would you have believed Tyrion would kill his father? Will he find Tysha? Are they still married? Did Tysha actually give birth to Tyrion's child? So many questions. So many unanswered questions.
I was totally shocked that he killed Shae and his father. Completely shocked. I didn't think he was capable of murder. I am dreading what will happen to him now. I'm still lost about Tansy/Tysha.
195) I know Tyrion lied about killing Joffrey because he was mad at his brother. Do you think this will come back to bite him in the butt later?
What's another murder on top of Shae and Tywin? Well, I guess Joff was the king so it's a little worse in the eyes of the law. Yes, I think this false confession will definitely prove to be a huge mistake.
196) Without Tywin around what do you think will happen?
Perhaps Cersei will take over?
197) Loving Samwell more and more all the time. Clever lad. Were you surprised he lied and got Jon elected as master of the wall?
Somehow I knew that's what he was up to.
198) Do you like the fact that Jon is now the in charge of the Wall?
Yes, but how long will this last?
Lisa Kay’s Answers to Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 76 (Jon) - Chapter 79 (Jon) 191) Should Jon have said no to being Lord of Winterfell? Oh, and for the record I still think we're going to find out something about Jon's mother that we still haven’t heard. I'm just not sure what. I think there's still a mystery there.
We’ll never know with 100% assurance what he was going to say if he hadn’t been elected Lord Commander.of the Night’s Watch, will we? But it sounded like he realized that he didn’t want Winterfell by bending his knee to King Stannis and his sorceress/priestess, Melisandre. I don't think GRRM is going to tell us anything about Jon Snow's mother just yet.
192) When Ghost came back it was the deciding factor for Jon what his choice would be. Do you think everything will come down to a war between Gods? Do we know who Dany believes in?
I was so happy to see Ghost! I didn’t want him to bend his knee to King Stannis, though I would have loved him to be legitimized and made Lord Stark. Yes, I think it is going to be a religious war. Nope, I can’t remember what God/Gods Dany has faith in. I’ll have to do some research.
193) We now know Tansy is Tysha. Virtual high five to Lisa Kay for being my partner in thinking that might me the case. So now it would appear she had a child that wasn't Tyrion's. Remember what Catelyn's father said about the next one being trueborn.
We do know? Okay, you lost me here, Lisarenee. I agree that Tansy and Tysha could be the same person, b/c Lord Tywin said he didn’t know where she was – only that she went "wherever whores go." However, what page are you looking at that says Tansy or Tysha had a child that wasn’t Tyrion? I thought it was Lord Hoster Tully who deliriously mumbled to a Tansy about a bloody birth/abortion that could have really been Lysa’s. Spoiler for last chapter: (view spoiler)
194) Would you have believed Tyrion would kill his father? Will he find Tysha? Are they still married? Did Tysha actually give birth to Tyrion's child? So many questions. So many unanswered questions.
Nope. That surprised me completely. I think the "Tysha Reveal" pushed him Over The Edge. I’m betting, if Tysha was pregnant, she aborted the child b/c she didn’t know if it was Tyrion’s or one of the guards who raped her. And it was rape! Yeah, for every question answered, two more pop up in its place.
195) I know Tyrion lied about killing Joffrey because he was mad at his brother. Do you think this will come back to bite him in the butt later? Q
Yes. Though he was in pain that was not well done of him.
196) Without Tywin around what do you think will happen?
Queen Cersei will take control.
197) Loving Samwell more and more all the time. Clever lad. Were you surprised he lied and got Jon elected as master of the wall?
I was surprised he lied. But, oh he was clever!
198) Do you like the fact that Jon is now the in charge of the Wall?
Yup.
@Lisa Kay#193 - Thanks for the reassurance that I didn't skip a chapter or something! :-)
I've finished the book. What a FANTASTIC ending! CRAZY!
I am really tempted to start AFFC...guess I can wait a few more days.
@Sandy#171 – I think you are definitely right. She is going to suffer more.
#172 – You are right about the manipulation. One of the reasons I wanted a confession out of King Joffrey about sending the assassin after Bran. I want things a little more concrete, not just two different POV.
#176 –Shae's testimony was horrible!
#177- Yes, very well written. I find myself groaning over the number of pages to read sometimes, in order to keep up, but then GRRM has a way of writing these scenes that make the pages fly.
#178 – I think she should have forgiven him too. I don’t doubt his love for her now.
#179 – From what I hear about the next book, pretty much!
#180 – I feel sorry for the girl impersonating Arya. She is going to suffer to, I think.
#181 – Really?!
#186 – You think the Hound is still alive? So do I.
#187 – True. On both counts.
#191 – I don’t think we are going to for a long, long time. The mystery of Jon’s Snow parentage is too much of an “Ultimate Reveal”, IMHO.
#193 – See my response to this question.
#194 – Yes, shocked covers it.
#196. – I agree. She won’t miss this opportunity to be back on top. Wonder what interference she’ll get from Queen Margaery Tyrell Lannister?
#198 – What!? I thought it would be for a while. Do you know something I don’t?
Sandy wrote: "@Lisa KayI've finished the book. What a FANTASTIC ending! CRAZY!
I am really tempted to start AFFC...guess I can wait a few more days."
Yes, the ending to this one really made me want to pick up the next. Unlike a couple of days ago when I was wondering if I wanted to continue with the series. Now I want to start reading A Feast for Crows today, LOL! GRRM is good at that -- messing with my emotions.
@LisaKay#181 -- I just feel like these two are the loves of each other's lives, as disturbing as that may be. With Tywin out of the picture who knows what they'll do?
#186 -- Yes! I do think so, but only b/c we didn't see him die
#194 -- I think I am more shocked about Shae than Tywin.
#198 -- No, I don't know anything, but I do know that GRRM has taught me not to get comfortable with the status quo.
Can't wait to discuss the ending!
@Sandy#181 - You could be right. I was thinking the love was fading fast there at the end. But maybe their relationship will get even sicker and they'll have that "love/hate" thing going for them.
*186 - True! (view spoiler)
#194 - Me too!
#198 - LMAO! Understatement.
Me neither!
I hated that Tyrion told Jamie he killed Joff! I think that was the thing that pissed me off the most.and I didn't catch the whole Tansy is Tysha thing. Are you sure?
See I know we all want to see how it ends, but seeing that the last two books haven't been written yet and it took him 5 years & 6 yrs between the last 2 books...
I just hope Alzheimer hasn't kicked in and I can still remember everything of the previous books.
and yes I'm gonna read the next book..It's already waiting for me at the library.
Sandy responded to 193) We now know Tansy is Tysha. Virtual high five to Lisa Kay for being my partner in thinking that might me the case. So now it would appear she had a child that wasn't Tyrion's. Remember what Catelyn's father said about the next one being trueborn. withOK, this went completely over my head. how do we know Tansy is Tysha?
I just assumed, but maybe I'm wrong!
Lisa wrote in response to, 198 – What!? I thought it would be for a while.
Do you know something I don’t?
Isn't that what they voted him to be? He's in charge of the Wall and the brothers or am I wrong?
Questions for Chapter 80 (Sansa) - Epilogue199) Sansa has really gotten herself into a pickle with Littlefinger. No one knows who she is and he's got his sights set on her. Just like Arya she can't get a break.
200) Cuckoo Bird (Lysa) is gone and oh how many songs she sang before she left. Anyone as surprised as me about some of those confessions? Did you think Lysa would have killed her husband and lied to her sister? Does any of this confuse you as to the reason why Littlefinger did it?
201) What was with the shaking with young Robert?
202) She's back!!!! Oh dear lord is she ever! Catelyn survived????? Truly???? How the heck did that happen and how did she recruit anyone without being able to talk?
203) Who's continuing and, those of you who are continuing, when should we read the next book? Should we take a break in between this one and the next?
Lisarenee wrote: "Lisa wrote in response to, 198 – What!? I thought it would be for a while. Do you know something I don’t? Isn't that what they voted him to be? He's in charge of the Wall and the brothers or am I..."
I meant that I didn't think he would be in charge for very long.
Lisarenee wrote: "Sandy responded to 193) We now know Tansy is Tysha. Virtual high five to Lisa Kay for being my partner in thinking that might me the case. So now it would appear she had a child that wasn't Tyrion..."OK, I interpreted your question to mean that something definitive was revealed about Tansy/Tysha. If that was the case I didn't catch it.
Questions for Chapter 80 (Sansa) - Epilogue199) Sansa has really gotten herself into a pickle with Littlefinger. No one knows who she is and he's got his sights set on her. Just like Arya she can't get a break.
Oh, yes, she is in for a roller coaster ride I am sure.
200) Cuckoo Bird (Lysa) is gone and oh how many songs she sang before she left. Anyone as surprised as me about some of those confessions? Did you think Lysa would have killed her husband and lied to her sister? Does any of this confuse you as to the reason Littlefinger did it?
That was shocking! Wow, she killed Jon, and one of you totally called it about pretending to be Cat. Also goes to further show how devious Littlefinger can be. As to motives, I am not sure. Perhaps a means to get rid of Lannisters?
201) What was with the shaking with young Robert?
??
202) She's back!!!! Oh dear lord is she ever! Catelyn survived????? Truly???? How the heck did that happen and how did she recruit anyone without being able to talk?
This was another huge WOW moment for me. I didn't even remotely think she had lived. Remember when Arya was a wolf and she dragged the white thing from the river, and she heard humans coming? I think it was her mom's body (dead? almost dead?) and the humans were the group that includes the healing priest (can't recall his name). He must have healed her? Just a theory...
203) Who's continuing and, those of you who are continuing, when should we read the next book? Should we take a break in between this one and the next?
I am definitely continuing! I don't necessarily need a break but willing to take one if group does. Also, we can include break times in the next reading.
@LisareneeI was responding to Sandy's answer to the following:
198) Do you like the fact that Jon is now the in charge of the Wall?Sounds to me like she doesn't think he'll stay in charge long. Yes. Looking further down these postings, she is reiterating that. Hmmmmm.
Yes, but how long will this last?
Sandy wrote: "OK, I interpreted your question to mean that something definitive was revealed about Tansy/Tysha. If that was the case I didn't catch it. "That is how I interpreted Question #193 also, Lisarenee. Maybe the confusion comes in the discussion of the baby w/i the Q. The baby was Lysa's not Tansy/Tysha's - but I think she/they were present when she aborted it.
Lisa Kay Answers Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 80 (Sansa) – Epilogue 199) Sansa has really gotten herself into a pickle with Littlefinger. No one knows who she is and he's got his sights set on her. Just like Arya she can't get a break.
Yeah, Littlefinger has a pickle for Sansa, and it’s a sour one. Disgusting. I hope Sansa gets out of this, but I can’t imagine how.
200) Cuckoo Bird (Lysa) is gone and oh how many songs she sang before she left. Anyone as surprised as me about some of those confessions? Did you think Lysa would have killed her husband and lied to her sister? Does any of this confuse you as to the reason why Littlefinger did it?
I was pretty stunned that she confessed. But I liked it. I like things stated clearly. I was shocked Littlefinger sent her Over The Edge – ha, just got that. I am patting myself on the back for a couple reveals, though (since I’ve missed so many obvious ones!). I figured she was the Nut Bunny who killed her own husband; I said that in book one. Geez, I’m sorry, but I can’t remember who was with me on that. Nope. The only confusion I have is if Littlefinger knows that it was Lysa that snuck into his bed and gave him her maidenhead and not Catelyn. He deserves to know that, the bastard, LOL!
201) What was with the shaking with young Robert?
Epilepsy.
202) She's back!!!! Oh dear lord is she ever! Catelyn survived????? Truly???? How the heck did that happen and how did she recruit anyone without being able to talk?
Arya pulled her body out of the drink when she was in wolf form. I just wonder if the wolf was Nymeria or not. As a nurse, I do know that a slashed throat is survivable. OMG! As I type this, I just remembered she also had Thoros there to “revived” her, like Lord Beric Dondarrion, of Blackhaven did. Right? See why “buddy reads” are helpful?! How she was able to recruit others? Someone must have recognized her, right?
203) Who's continuing and, those of you who are continuing, when should we read the next book? Should we take a break in between this one and the next?
What do you mean by take a break? Like a month off? That would be fine with me. But, I’m good with continuing in September also. I would very much like at least two planned breaks – each about 1/3 and 2/3 of the way through the book – next time. Maybe for a day or two? Good time to catch up or really break.
Thank you, ladies! It has been a pleasure reading this one with you. And THANK YOU, Lisarenee! You really carried the load on this one. Great job.
Another thing, isn't Jon Snow King of the North now? Guess he doesn't know it, or maybe those that heard Robb name him are no longer living (except our surprise returning player!)
Sandy wrote: "Another thing, isn't Jon Snow King of the North now? Guess he doesn't know it, or maybe those that heard Robb name him are no longer living (except our surprise returning player!)"Yeah, and she won't tell anyone!
Yes, thanks to all of you! It's been a fun journey so far.Lisa Kay, way to go on calling the Nut Bunny! :-)
Thanks, Sandy. :) Didn't figure out about King Joffrey though - even after Tyrion was questioning Sansa about a possible dissagrement/incident/fight between Bran and Joff b/f the incident. That went right over my head.
Sandy said, "This was another huge WOW moment for me. I didn't even remotely think she had lived. Remember when Arya was a wolf and she dragged the white thing from the river, and she heard humans coming? I think it was her mom's body (dead? almost dead?) and the humans were the group that includes the healing priest (can't recall his name). He must have healed her? Just a theory..."I thought the same thing about the healing. The description they gave of Catelyn seemed pretty creepy. I kept wondering if she was a bit more zombie like. Did anyone ever see Pet Cemetery? I think that was the Stephen King movie where they brought dead things back to life but they weren't the same mentally.
In reference to my break comment - last time we took a week break before continuing with the next book. I was curious if we should do so again?
A week sounds fine to me!OMG Pet Sematary.... Yes! Now I'm gonna play with
youuuuuuuuuuu....loved that book and the movie was
creeeeeeepy!
A week is alright with me too. I think maybe we should have two scheduled one or two day breaks, if possible.
I agree with breaks. Maybe sprinkle them in at 1/3 and 2/3 intervals?
I believe Cat is dead and the necromancer has brought her back. It's really creepy!I was very surprised about Lyssa death, but at the same time "Good riddance to the psycho path"
Did any of you not like the chapters with Little finger and Lyssa? They just seemed to read very juvenile to me.
of course I'm up to reading the next book. I actually got it from Overdrive as a download. (thank God, my hand was starting to feel arthritic from holding the huge hardbacks)
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
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The Secret Lives of the Four Wives (other topics)
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152. Tyrion concluded King Joffrey was behind the assassination attempt on Bran. Do you think this is true?
153. Tyrion’s has been unappreciated for his role in the victory of the Battle of the Blackwater, despises by the inhabitants of Kings’ Landing, given a wife who doesn’t want him, been made the butt of jests of at court, and now accused of a crime he didn’t commit. He’s not having much luck lately. How do you think his trial will go?
154. King Joffrey is dead! **Lisa Kay does happy dance.** Did you think at first he was really dying? Or just chocking? We know Tyrion didn’t do it; so, who did? Cersei must really hate Tyrion to accuse him of regicide and kinslaying. Or do you think she really believes Tyrion did kill her son?
155. Sansa finally ran off with “Ser” Dontos, only to be betrayed. Was Littlefinger’s interaction with Sansa a little creepy, or what? All I can say is out of the frying pan and into the fire. True?
156. We are given several answers, but more questions too. It was cruel of Littlefinger to set up the jousting dwarfs. Did he plan it all? Even the misdirect of Tyrion as scapegoat for Joffrey’s murder?
157. Cersei wouldn’t let Jaime hold his son when he was born? She continues to be the omnipotent b!tch, IMO. What did you think of Jaime’s reaction to hearing of his son’s death?
158. Again Jaime intervenes for Brienne, saving her from Ser Loras Tyrell’s wrath. How will her trial go? Will there even be one? I mean, she supposedly killed a traitor, right?
159. Ick. Sex on the altar with your sibling with your dead son nearby? Talk about breaking a few commandments or any sense of propriety. Comments.
160. Do you think Jaime will listen to Tyrion’s side of things? Will Jaime be forced to choose between his two siblings?
161. Whoa! Who knew Davos, now Lord Rainwood, Admiral of the Narrow Sea, had it in him to rescue Edric? Why didn’t Melisandre foresee this turn of events; because it was NOT directed at her? Has Davos’ luck finally run out?