Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion
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A Storm of Swords (A Song of Ice and Fire, #3) by George R.R. Martin (buddy 3rd in series read) start date August 10th
@Lisa Kay: I'm pretty sure the Others can control the wights because the wights seemed pretty organized for undead. I mean, why would they gather in a group and attack? They're not like real zombies in that they crave human flesh. Someone or something has to be directing them, IMO.
Laura, so you think the wights are like a puppet army, still able to function but someone is pulling the strings? They don't seem to deteriorate like most zombies either. Almost like soulless creatures. Just shells of their former selves.Lisa Kay, A zombie baby army would be hard to take. It'll be interesting to see what those Caster sons truly are. Could Caster have made a deal with someone? It'll be interesting to see where Martin takes this story line. I'm thinking along the same lines as you Sandy. Creepy.
Yep! That's pretty much exactly what I think. They're getting orders from somewhere.
Lisarenee, I can create today's questions if you'd like.
That would be great Sandy. Also, I will probably not be able to post on Sunday. Can someone take over for that day?
Questions for Chapter 36 Davos – Chapter 39 Arya98.It’s refreshing to see Stannis awake and lucid. How surprised were you that he asked Davos to be Hand of the King? Why do you suppose Stannis trusts Davos so much?
99. Melisandre asks Stannis for “the boy” so she can wake the “stone dragon.” Is “the boy” Edric? What is the “stone dragon?” Do you think she’s asking for a sacrifice or just drops of blood? (My guess is sacrifice.) Were you surprised that Stannis told her no?
100.I continue to be surprised by and impressed with Jaime. He tells Brienne he killed Aerys to prevent him from burning King’s Landing. Why didn’t he tell anyone? He says he didn’t because he swore to keep the king’s secrets, but the guy was dead for goodness’ sake! I think Jaime could have saved his reputation if everyone had known about this.
101.I couldn’t help but feel sorry for Jaime has he tries to eat one-handed. I’m getting worried for Brienne since Bolton plans to send her to Vargo, and send Jaime to King’s Landing. I hope she comes up with a brilliant escape plan!
102.Just an observation: Brienne is learning that oaths don’t mean much. She’s disappointed that Jaime, Robb and Tyrion have all broken their promises. Do you think now she will be more wary and less naïve?
103.Roose Bolton says that Arya has been found and will be returned safely to the North. Does he know that Arya was the girl who had been serving him? I think not.
104.Well, now we have even more reason to hate Cersei if the story of Tyrion as a baby that Prince Oberyn told is true. Do you believe the story, or do you think Oberyn is trying to turn Tyrion against Cersei (not that he hasn’t already turned against her!). It’s really hard to fathom a 9-year-old girl being so cruel to her own baby brother! I like how Jaime came to Tyrion’s defense (in the tale).
105.How will Cersei react to the new wedding guests?
106.Why do they keep letting the Hound go? He’s nothing but trouble!
107.Were you surprised Gendry wanted to stay with the outlaws rather than serve at Riverrun?
Great. Thanks. I have a headache today and meant to come up with and post some questions but never got to doing it.
Lisa Kay Answers to Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 36 (Davos) – Chapter 39 (Arya) 98. It’s refreshing to see Stannis awake and lucid. How surprised were you that he asked Davos to be Hand of the King? Why do you suppose Stannis trusts Davos so much?
I was shocked he made him Lord Rainwood, Admiral of the Narrow Sea, and the King’s Hand. Of course, I don’t think the Kings’ Hands are very lucky in this series. Talk about the 180 degree turn from what I was expecting at the beginning of the chapters. I honestly thought this was The End of Davos.
99. Melisandre asks Stannis for “the boy” so she can wake the “stone dragon.” Is “the boy” Edric? What is the “stone dragon?” Do you think she’s asking for a sacrifice or just drops of blood? (My guess is sacrifice.) Were you surprised that Stannis told her no?
I think she was requesting Edric. Beats the poo out of me what the “stone dragon” is, but I’m thinking a real dragon. Maybe fully grown, not an egg? I’m guessing a life sacrifice here. I was beyond shocked that King Stannis refused her. I thought he’d be catatonic, revived to a mindless toy at her bidding only when she needed him.
100. I continue to be surprised by and impressed with Jaime. He tells Brienne he killed Aerys to prevent him from burning King’s Landing. Why didn’t he tell anyone? He says he didn’t because he swore to keep the king’s secrets, but the guy was dead for goodness’ sake! I think Jaime could have saved his reputation if everyone had known about this.
Yes, drat it all, I’m impressed with Jaime too (against my wishes, not to mention my sense of justice). I think it is a matter of pride with him. He has a healthy ego, but I mean that in a complementary way, not a bad way (healthy being the operative word). He doesn’t feel he has to explain himself to any one, that they should see him for himself – and if they don’t it is to their detriment.
101. I couldn’t help but feel sorry for Jaime has he tries to eat one-handed. I’m getting worried for Brienne since Bolton plans to send her to Vargo, and send Jaime to King’s Landing. I hope she comes up with a brilliant escape plan!
Yes, he has some adjustment to do. I do believe he will eventually learn to wield a sword with his left hand. Want to lay bets? I’m worried for Brienne too; she needs to escape.
102. Just an observation: Brienne is learning that oaths don’t mean much. She’s disappointed that Jaime, Robb and Tyrion have all broken their promises. Do you think now she will be more wary and less naïve?
I do!
103. Roose Bolton says that Arya has been found and will be returned safely to the North. Does he know that Arya was the girl who had been serving him? I think not.
I had to stop and re-read that passage when I came to it, as I wondered the same thing. I’m about 90% sure he didn’t know she was his cup girl. I just think he has a spy/scout out and has heard from the countryside that she is alive.
104. Well, now we have even more reason to hate Cersei if the story of Tyrion as a baby that Prince Oberyn told is true. Do you believe the story, or do you think Oberyn is trying to turn Tyrion against Cersei (not that he hasn’t already turned against her!). It’s really hard to fathom a 9-year-old girl being so cruel to her own baby brother! I like how Jaime came to Tyrion’s defense (in the tale).
I believe the story; she’s a witch, spelled with a capital B. No doubt at all. But, I do find it interesting to read that she is blamed for things of which I think her innocent.
105. How will Cersei react to the new wedding guests?
She’s going to blow a gasket.
106. Why do they keep letting the Hound go? He’s nothing but trouble!
I know! I can’t believe that is twice now. **shakes head in disbelief and disgust**
107. Were you surprised Gendry wanted to stay with the outlaws rather than serve at Riverrun?
I was very surprised and disappointed; I figured he and Arya would be together for a while.
Lisarenee wrote: "Great. Thanks. I have a headache today and meant to come up with and post some questions but never got to doing it."I hope your headache gets better, Lisarenee!
If you are caught up with today's reading, you are half-way through with this book!
Halfway already? That's amazing! I love how these group reads make these doorstoppers easier to digest, 4 chapters at a time. :-)
Questions for Chapter 36 Davos – Chapter 39 Arya98.It’s refreshing to see Stannis awake and lucid. How surprised were you that he asked Davos to be Hand of the King? Why do you suppose Stannis trusts Davos so much?
I wouldn't have thought Melisandre would have allowed it. Guess woman can't be considered for the job?
99. Melisandre asks Stannis for “the boy” so she can wake the “stone dragon.” Is “the boy” Edric? What is the “stone dragon?” Do you think she’s asking for a sacrifice or just drops of blood? (My guess is sacrifice.) Were you surprised that Stannis told her no?
I'm guessing the stone dragon is like the eggs, which were thought to be stone. Could it be the three headed dragon mentioned in the house of horrors that the magician had. Yes, I' believe "the boy" refers to Edric. I think Melisandre wants to do to Edric what Dany did to the woman who killed her husband and child. I was surprised Stannis said no.
100.I continue to be surprised by and impressed with Jaime. He tells Brienne he killed Aerys to prevent him from burning King’s Landing. Why didn’t he tell anyone? He says he didn’t because he swore to keep the king’s secrets, but the guy was dead for goodness’ sake! I think Jaime could have saved his reputation if everyone had known about this.
I was a little confused about which King he was referring to. I thought perhaps it was Robert he was referencing.
101.I couldn’t help but feel sorry for Jaime has he tries to eat one-handed. I’m getting worried for Brienne since Bolton plans to send her to Vargo, and send Jaime to King’s Landing. I hope she comes up with a brilliant escape plan!
There are too many V names in this series. Wonder what they'll do when they find out there are no saphires. Funny how creating the lie to save Brienne may have actually saved him since the said they couldn't rob Vargo from both his prizes. So who the heck is Vargo? Is he the one who wanted to rape Brienne or someone else? I'm worried about her too.
102.Just an observation: Brienne is learning that oaths don’t mean much. She’s disappointed that Jaime, Robb and Tyrion have all broken their promises. Do you think now she will be more wary and less naïve?
Hard to say.
103.Roose Bolton says that Arya has been found and will be returned safely to the North. Does he know that Arya was the girl who had been serving him? I think not.
I'm unsure. I'm wondering how close Arya and Jaime are to each other. It sounded like they were both at that in at one point.
104.Well, now we have even more reason to hate Cersei if the story of Tyrion as a baby that Prince Oberyn told is true. Do you believe the story, or do you think Oberyn is trying to turn Tyrion against Cersei (not that he hasn’t already turned against her!). It’s really hard to fathom a 9-year-old girl being so cruel to her own baby brother! I like how Jaime came to Tyrion’s defense (in the tale).
I believe it. She probably blamed him for her mother's death as well. She did call him the monster who killed her mother.
105.How will Cersei react to the new wedding guests?
I don't know but I'd be worried because while Joffrey is the King I don't think he and the Lannisters are well liked.
106.Why do they keep letting the Hound go? He’s nothing but trouble!
I think he's another tortured soul. I think he hated what he did, but didn't have any choice. I think that's why when he saw the chance to leave he took it.
107.Were you surprised Gendry wanted to stay with the outlaws rather than serve at Riverrun?
I was. He seems unsure of his abilities.
Some of my random thoughts:
What the heck was with that tub seen. That wins one of my weirdest book moments award. I mean really?
Is Brienne the opposite of Tyrion? Hear me out. Woman are supposed to be small and dainty. Men are supposed to be tall and muscular. She's naive and he's cynical. What would happen if the two of them ended up as a couple? I think it would be an interesting match. Sorry, just a strange thought that danced through my head.
@ Lisarenee#99 – Maybe you’re right. The eggs Dany had were stone-like. I was think more of a stone statue that can be brought to life. I think you’re right again about Melisandre wanting Edric – to use him to bring the dragon to life!
#100 – I was for a second there too.
#101 – I agree about all the V names! When Varly was slain by Janos Slynt, I thought it was Lord Varys (also known as "the Spider"). But I do know this one b/c I had to re-read to figure it out. Vargo Hoat is the leader of the "Bloody Mummers". He is also called Lord Hoat and Lord Vargo (though someone said he isn’t a Lord) and “The Goat” and “The Crippler” (by Arya?). He stopped Brienne’s rape when Jaime yelled “Sapphires”. He is the one who lisps. He is from Qohor, one of the nine Free Cities.
#103 – I was wondering the same thing and was looking at the maps again. I think they are pretty close to each other.
#106 – All of what you said, plus he was a bit ashamed of his response to the fire at King’s Landing.
On your random thought:
Tub scene? LOL! Okay, it was a little strange.
Brienne and Tyrion? I hadn’t thought about those physical and emotional opposites. But, okay, why not. LOL!
Questions for Chapter 40 (Bran) - Chapter 43 (Arya)108) I can't believe how close Bran and Jon were to each other. Seems to be another think Martin likes to do. Always so close yet so far.
109) "Aye," said Jojen, "but one man willing to forswear himself would be enough to sell your secret to the ironmen or the Bastard of Bolton."
Anyone else think this might be some foreshadowing? I thought of Janos Slynt when I read it.
110) Surprised Jon wouldn't kill the old man or are you more surprised he bolted and left the Wildings?
111) Do you think Ygritte and Jon are too different for it ever to have worked out?
112) Do you think he learned enough to leave?
113) What did you think of Dany's battle plans?
114) Thought of how she told Ser Jorah to stop his possessive/jealous behavior? Was it the right thing to do?
115) Thoughts on Daario Nahris? Lovely present he brought Dany.
116) We learned more about Rheagar. Still we don't have the full story.
117) Darn it my theory about Jon was wrong. Drats! I liked my theory about his birth more.
118) Darn it just when I thought Arya might be headed for safety Sandor kidnaps her. Noooooooooo!
Questions for Chapter 40 (Bran) - Chapter 43 (Arya)108) I can't believe how close Bran and Jon were to each other. Seems to be another think Martin likes to do. Always so close yet so far.
Oh, man that was too close! I really hoped for a Bran/Jon reunion.
109) "Aye," said Jojen, "but one man willing to forswear himself would be enough to sell your secret to the ironmen or the Bastard of Bolton."
Anyone else think this might be some foreshadowing? I thought of Janos Slynt when I read it.
Definitely could happen. GRRM isn't happy unless his characters are in danger.
110) Surprised Jon wouldn't kill the old man or are you more surprised he bolted and left the Wildings?
I was surprised he bolted. I'm really worried about him out there alone with a bad wound in his leg.
111) Do you think Ygritte and Jon are too different for it ever to have worked out?
I think it could have worked out if circumstances were different. I have a feeling that Ygritte knew he was spying.
112) Do you think he learned enough to leave?
He has knowledge that will be useful to the Watch. He could have learned more, but I think what he knows will be a good start.
113) What did you think of Dany's battle plans?
I really like her false modesty. She's a natural General!
114) Thought of how she told Ser Jorah to stop his possessive/jealous behavior? Was it the right thing to do?
I'm glad she did it, even though I think she was lying about not desiring him. It was the right thing to do. She has a kingdom to win.
115) Thoughts on Daario Nahris? Lovely present he brought Dany.
He's definitely someone I'd want on my side. Just hope he stays loyal.
116) We learned more about Rheagar. Still we don't have the full story.
I'm glad you mentioned this. As we keep reading, we realize that things rarely are what they seem to be. I am now starting to think Rheagar was a far better person that we've been led to believe. Instead of raping Lyanna, what if they were in love? Hmmmmmm
117) Darn it my theory about Jon was wrong. Drats! I liked my theory about his birth more.
Again, the more we know, the more we don't know. We don't know for sure that Wylla was his mother, we just know there are those who THINK that Wylla was his mother. I'm still leaning toward the theory that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. :-) Which would make him nephew to Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Mother of Dragons.
118) Darn it just when I thought Arya might be headed for safety Sandor kidnaps her. Noooooooooo!
Don't get me started....Poor girl can't catch a break!
Questions for Chapter 44 Jaime to Chapter 47 Arya119. In a flashback we see that Jaime realized he was chosen for the Kingsguard merely to spite Tywin. How do you think this affected him? Perhaps he wanted to kill Aerys long before Robert’s troops closed in.
120. Jaime continues his road to sainthood by rescuing Brienne from a bear. Next he will rescue drowning puppies and save Timmy from a burning building. :-) Why do you think he went back to Harrenhall? Could it be he cares (not romantically, just in a “brotherhood” kind of way)? Has Jaime truly changed since he pushed Bran out the window? How much does losing his hand have to do with his 180?
121. Uh-oh. The old crone predicted that Riverrun would be taken, and here we have Robb keeping his wife and her family “safe” at Riverrun while he goes to Edmure’s wedding. Over and over we are told how safe it is. I have a bad feeling about this.
122. I wanted to high-five Robb when he told Catelyn he was going to name Jon Snow his heir! I fear this means the end of Robb is near, though. I was bothered at Catelyn taking this so personally. She felt trapped by this. I am not sure why she felt this way.
123. Samwell prays to the Gods for help and lo and behold the ravens save him and Gilly from the wights. Coincidence? Who was the mysterious elk-rider?
124. I enjoyed watching Arya trying to kill and/or escape the Hound. Did you know he was taking her to her mother? Since he had been relatively kind to Sansa, it makes sense he wouldn’t be too cruel to Arya. I’m glad his goal is to get her to the Twins instead of Riverrun. GRRM is probably just teasing us again,though.
Lisa Kay Answers to Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 40 (Bran) – Chapter 43 (Arya) 108) I can't believe how close Bran and Jon were to each other. Seems to be another think Martin likes to do. Always so close yet so far.
Really! Frustrating. Do you think Bran was in Summer’s body and helped him out of that mess? I do.
109) "Aye," said Jojen, "but one man willing to forswear himself would be enough to sell your secret to the ironmen or the Bastard of Bolton."
Anyone else think this might be some foreshadowing? I thought of Janos Slynt when I read it.
Nope. The Bastard of Bolton is Roose Bolton, the guy who likes the leeches, in command (or did he turn it over to the Goat already) of Harrenhall.
110) Surprised Jon wouldn't kill the old man or are you more surprised he bolted and left the Wildings?
I wasn’t surprised he didn’t kill the old man. I was shocked Ygritte did! And I was pretty surprised he bolted.
111) Do you think Ygritte and Jon are too different for it ever to have worked out?
That proved to be the case in that chapter, after the flush of hormones had worn off.
112) Do you think he learned enough to leave?
Goodness, I hope so. I’m glad he got out of there, regardless.
113) What did you think of Dany's battle plans?
I loved it! She is turning into quite a little warrior queen.
114) Thought of how she told Ser Jorah to stop his possessive/jealous behavior? Was it the right thing to do?
I’m worried now. She got in his face a bit there. But she only spoke the truth.
115) Thoughts on Daario Nahris? Lovely present he brought Dany.
With that backward glance over his shoulder, I figured he was coming back to her. Didn’t expect the “gifts”, but the dragons like them.
116) We learned more about Rheagar. Still we don't have the full story.
Nope. I wish I had marked the page about the story that Bran heard about that day.
117) Darn it my theory about Jon was wrong. Drats! I liked my theory about his birth more.
I think our theory is right! This changes nothing.
118) Darn it just when I thought Arya might be headed for safety Sandor kidnaps her. Noooooooooo!
Aaaaaaaiiiiiiiii! Terrible.
Answers to Questions for Chapter 44 Jaime to Chapter 47 Arya119. In a flashback we see that Jaime realized he was chosen for the Kingsguard merely to spite Tywin. How do you think this affected him? Perhaps he wanted to kill Aerys long before Robert’s troops closed in.
I'm not sure I believe he did. Maybe. The guy did seem rather crazy.
120. Jaime continues his road to sainthood by rescuing Brienne from a bear. Next he will rescue drowning puppies and save Timmy from a burning building. :-) Why do you think he went back to Harrenhall? Could it be he cares (not romantically, just in a “brotherhood” kind of way)? Has Jaime truly changed since he pushed Bran out the window? How much does losing his hand have to do with his 180?
I think the question is 'Who is Jaime?' Was what happened with Bran a fluke or what happened with Brienne a fluke? He's starting to remind me of Tyrion.
121. Uh-oh. The old crone predicted that Riverrun would be taken, and here we have Robb keeping his wife and her family “safe” at Riverrun while he goes to Edmure’s wedding. Over and over we are told how safe it is. I have a bad feeling about this.
So do I.
122. I wanted to high-five Robb when he told Catelyn he was going to name Jon Snow his heir! I fear this means the end of Robb is near, though. I was bothered at Catelyn taking this so personally. She felt trapped by this. I am not sure why she felt this way.
If Robb dies and Jon takes his place will Catelyn have a place? She was down right mean to him the last time they were together.
123. Samwell prays to the Gods for help and lo and behold the ravens save him and Gilly from the wights. Coincidence? Who was the mysterious elk-rider?
I don't know.
124. I enjoyed watching Arya trying to kill and/or escape the Hound. Did you know he was taking her to her mother? Since he had been relatively kind to Sansa, it makes sense he wouldn’t be too cruel to Arya. I’m glad his goal is to get her to the Twins instead of Riverrun. GRRM is probably just teasing us again,though.
He did surprise me. He's a character we don't know much about, but I'd like to. If he'd denied killing Arya's friend he probably would have been killed or severely punished and the outcome would have been the same. He didn't seem to like what he did and didn't wish to be a knight. He holds a low opinion of them.
Questions for Chapter 48 (Jon) - Chapter 51 (Catelyn)Wow! on of the smallest sections of 4 chapters we've read thus far, but it packed a punch.
125)Poor Jon. Finds out about the false reports about Bran andd Rickon and finds out what happened to Mormont. Plus, the wall is almost deserted. I'm a little worried that the wall will be overtaken while Jon is out of it. Were you surprised to find some of the brothers had returned and told the story of what happened?
126) Jon's confession about Ygritte shows how he feels guilty about what happened. Think a Jon junior will result from their relationship?
127) I can't believe, well yes I can, what happened to Robb and Catelyn. Got an uneasy feeling when Frey made the speech about not forgetting things.
128) What do you think happened to Edmure? If he's not dead how will he react to finding his sister and nephew murdered?
129) I guess we now know why they wanted Robb's wife with him.
130) Poor Arya. Once again she can't get a break. What do you think will happen to her?
131) Thoughts about the hound? Will he try to sell her off again, and, if so, to who?
Questions for Chapter 48 (Jon) - Chapter 51 (Catelyn)Well, part of me wants to put this book down for a couple of days, but the other part of me wants to see what happens.
125)Poor Jon. Finds out about the false reports about Bran andd Rickon and finds out what happened to Mormont. Plus, the wall is almost deserted. I'm a little worried that the wall will be overtaken while Jon is out of it. Were you surprised to find some of the brothers had returned and told the story of what happened?
I was surprised so many made it back. There is so much danger out there. I hope Sam shows up.
126) Jon's confession about Ygritte shows how he feels guilty about what happened. Think a Jon junior will result from their relationship?
Anything is possible.
127) I can't believe, well yes I can, what happened to Robb and Catelyn. Got an uneasy feeling when Frey made the speech about not forgetting things.
Oh my gosh! I guess we all knew this would happen eventually. I was expecting Riverrun to be overtaken and instead we get the Red Wedding. How terrible to think they were safe under the laws of hospitality! I wish Catelyn would have killed the old man instead of the grandson. Now we know why Grey Wind attacked the men who came out to greet them, and why Roslin was crying the whole time. Ughhhh! I don't like how the person who killed Robb said, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." I don't think Jaime had anything to do with this plot (at least I hope not). Also, did anyone think it odd that Roose Bolton didn't mention anything about Brienne or Jaime to Catelyn? Long live King Jon Snow!
128) What do you think happened to Edmure? If he's not dead how will he react to find his sister and nephew murdered?
I think he is being held hostage. I'm sure he'll be upset and want vengeance, but it appears the entire group was killed.
129) I guess we now know why they wanted Robb's wife with him.
Yep. Maybe she is pregnant. Would that trump the crown passing to Jon?
130) Poor Arya. Once again she can't get a break. What do you think will happen to her?
I knew we were being teased! I think the Hound will protect her. He would be rewarded for that, so there's the motivation.
131) Thoughts about the hound? Will he try to sell her off again, and, if so, to who?
He'll keep her for the ransom. I don't think he would give her to "unfriendly" hands (at least I hope not!) Hmmmm, who could he give her to now that Catelyn and Robb are dead? Edmure I guess (?)
120. Jaime continues his road to sainthood by rescuing Brienne from a bear. Next he will rescue drowning puppies and save Timmy from a burning building. :-) Why do you think he went back to Harrenhall? Could it be he cares (not romantically, just in a “brotherhood” kind of way)? Has Jaime truly changed since he pushed Bran out the window? How much does losing his hand have to do with his 180?I'm not sure if it all has to do with him losing his hand or not. I think the dream is important.
Jamie is doing a great job making me hate him less and less. I like how his character is developing. In the end I think he's gonna turn his back on his own family...maybe using the phrase.."a Lannister always pays his debts"
121. Uh-oh. The old crone predicted that Riverrun would be taken, and here we have Robb keeping his wife and her family “safe” at Riverrun while he goes to Edmure’s wedding. Over and over we are told how safe it is. I have a bad feeling about this.
122. I wanted to high-five Robb when he told Catelyn he was going to name Jon Snow his heir! I fear this means the end of Robb is near, though. I was bothered at Catelyn taking this so personally. She felt trapped by this. I am not sure why she felt this way.
This chapter was interesting. You see Catelyn basically brought down to nothing. I almost felt bad for her.(almost) I can see what she's saying about Jon Snow and his children, but really??? Come on Catelyn stop being a b*tch and show a little love and compassion some where.
I also feel something bad is gonna happen, or why else would Martin be giving Jon Snow the kingdom? Poor Rob.....
123. Samwell prays to the Gods for help and lo and behold the ravens save him and Gilly from the wights. Coincidence? Who was the mysterious elk-rider?
Oh this mysterious Elk Rider! Is he an other? He seems to be able to control the animals. Could he be like Jorjen & Meera?
Kellyflower, You made me think about who the mysterious elk-rider could be... His hand was black and cold. That did make me think of Others, but could it be the long lost uncle, BenJen? Seems that we should never count someone dead until we see them with our own eyes in this book. Could he have been doing what Jon was doing and melding in with some wildings?
Lisa,you know I kinda had written off Uncle Ben. Maybe it is him. Maybe he's been made into an "Other"
Uncle Ben as the Elk Rider...I like that theory!
@ Kellyflower#120 - I am sensing there may be a showdown between Jaime and Tywin. Tywin is certainly proving to be a thorn in the sides of all three of his children.
Ahhh! You guys got to the Red Wedding! I've been waiting for this since ... well, since I read it almost two months ago. I can't wait to see everyone's reactions to it. Mine was shock, sadness and then some excitement (I couldn't believe GRRM actually DID that!). My husband was super confused right before all hell breaks loose. He couldn't understand what made Catelyn slap that guy and I didn't want to explain it, so I made him finish the chapter first.Also, GRRM has said that when that scene is aired for the HBO show (like in four years) that he won't watch it and in fact he wants to be out of the country because it was so difficult to write.
Yes, it was difficult to read too! Although, did GRRM have a less difficult time killing off Ned? I think after Ned died we the readers realized that nobody is safe in Westeros. I wasn't surprised that Robb and Catelyn died, but I was surprised how it happened... it was horrible!
As much as I was rooting for Robb ... his days seemed numbered, especially after he married Jeyne. But I was not expecting it to be anything like what it was so I was super shocked at the RW.I have a feeling that Ned wasn't tough for GRRM to write, only because Ned's death was absolutely 100% necessary, so GRRM probably always knew Ned was going to die fairly early on. If Ned doesn't die, Robb doesn't march, Arya doesn't have to leave King's Landing (go to Harrenhal, fall in with Beric and get stolen by the Hound - and she never meets Gendry!), Sansa would be fine (although, maybe she'd be married to Joffrey, ew), Theon never would have taken Winterfell, and so on.
In fact, if Ned doesn't go to King's Landing, Jon probably wouldn't even be at the Wall. Ned and Benjen thought Jon was too young, but Catelyn (bitch that she ... was) didn't want Jon staying at Winterfell.
And those are only the big things that happen as a result of Ned's death. So, GRRM probably wrote Ned like one drinks a carton of milk. You keep an eye on the expiration date because you know it's coming (worst analogy ever, sorry guys!).
Lisa Kay Answers Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 44 (Jaime) to Chapter 47 (Arya) 119. In a flashback we see that Jaime realized he was chosen for the Kingsguard merely to spite Tywin. How do you think this affected him? Perhaps he wanted to kill Aerys long before Robert’s troops closed in.
I think it had a major effect on him; he was wanted to prove himself since then. Could be he hated King Aerys for years b/f the deed was done.
120. Jaime continues his road to sainthood by rescuing Brienne from a bear. Next he will rescue drowning puppies and save Timmy from a burning building. :-) Why do you think he went back to Harrenhall? Could it be he cares (not romantically, just in a “brotherhood” kind of way)? Has Jaime truly changed since he pushed Bran out the window? How much does losing his hand have to do with his 180?
I think it is in the spirit of “brotherhood” and because she swore an oath. He kept harping on her oath as much as she did. His breaking his oath in order to save his father has really stuck with him all these years. In addition, I think he is more attracted to the inner Brienne than even he will admit. I think losing his hand has contributed to this this turn around somewhat – how could it not?
121. Uh-oh. The old crone predicted that Riverrun would be taken, and here we have Robb keeping his wife and her family “safe” at Riverrun while he goes to Edmure’s wedding . Over and over we are told how safe it is. I have a bad feeling about this.
You do? Then I say “Uh-oh” too! Oh, dear!
122. I wanted to high-five Robb when he told Catelyn he was going to name Jon Snow his heir! I fear this means the end of Robb is near, though. I was bothered at Catelyn taking this so personally. She felt trapped by this. I am not sure why she felt this way.
High fives from this corner too! I loved it. :) I fear you are right about King Robb. I was a little bewildered by that myself. I could see she didn’t want to miss the action, but it is not like she is in exile.
123. Samwell prays to the Gods for help and lo and behold the ravens save him and Gilly from the wights. Coincidence? Who was the mysterious elk-rider?
I don’t think it was a coincidence. There were ravens. Very closely associated with crows – which is what the Night’s Guard is called. Therefore, I think it was/is Benjen Stark. Maybe. Ha! I think it is neat that Samwell’s ravens, that he let loose w/o messages, came back and helped him. But maybe the giant elk riding guy with the cold hands commands the birds.
124. I enjoyed watching Arya trying to kill and/or escape the Hound. Did you know he was taking her to her mother? Since he had been relatively kind to Sansa, it makes sense he wouldn’t be too cruel to Arya. I’m glad his goal is to get her to the Twins instead of Riverrun. GRRM is probably just teasing us again, though.
I was laughing through most of that chapter. “If I have to tell you again…” Love Arya Stark, God Bless her, LOL! Nope. Didn’t think he was taking her there. I thought maybe he was taking her to Kings’ Landing as a way to save face upon his return. I’m happy Sandor Clegane, the Hound, is taking her to Riverrun too. Yeah, you’re right, Sandy, GRRM is probably doing that. **sigh**
Questions for Chapter 52 (Arya) - Chapter 55 (Jon)132) I felt so bad for Arya. Do you think she's okay? I wonder why they didn't just lump this chapter in with the previous Arya chapter?
133) Sounded like Edmure is alive, but Riverun will be taken away or did I get that wrong? Poor Tyrion. If Sansa didn't hate him before she might now.
134) Interesting to find Tywin is drugging Joffrey. Anyone else surprised?
135) More information about the fall of the Targaryens. What do you make of it?
136) Arya and Roose Bolton? Thoughts? Gah!
137) 2 of the kings Melisandre promised would die have. Is Joffrey next?
138) Thoughts about Davos and if Joffrey does die will the Edric then be sacrificed?
139) So it looks like Davos will not tell Stannis about the Wall? I wonder why?
140)Love the scarecrows.
141) The battle at the wall was like the last showdown. Were you surprised the brothers won? Were you surprised Ygritte died? At least I think she died. I can't be certain until she's truly buried.
Questions for Chapter 52 (Arya) - Chapter 55 (Jon)132) I felt so bad for Arya. Do you think she's okay? I wonder why they didn't just lump this chapter in with the previous Arya chapter?
I felt bad for her too. She just can't catch a break and her whole family is dead/missing/held hostage. I think the author had to break up the chapters this way. Arya's POV: she's on her way to Catelyn. Catelyn's POV: she and Robb are killed. Arya's POV: Arya learns the Freys are battling her brother's forces and that her mom/brother have been killed.
I do think the Hound just knocked her out to keep her from going inside the castle. Surely they would have killed her.
134) Looks like Edmure is alive. Poor Tyrion. If Sansa didn't hate him before she might now.
I hope that Sansa doesn't blame Tyrion. He had no idea at all about the plot (just like us!)
135) Interesting to find Tywin is drugging Joffrey. Anyone else surprised?
I think it's funny. I also think that Tywin is enjoying being "king."
146) More information about the fall of the Targaryens. What do you make of it?
More proof of how evil and despicable Tywin is.
47) Arya and Roose Bolton? Thoughts? Gah!
UGH! She would kill him first.
148) 2 of the kings Melisandre promised would die have. Is Joffrey next?
I don't know. I don't think Melisandre had anything to do with the Lannister/Frey plot against Robb, so that had to be a coincidence, right?
147) Thoughts about Davos and if Joffrey does die will the Edric then be sacrificed?
I sure hope not. The thought makes me shudder.
148) So it looks like Davos will not tell Stannis about the Wall? I wonder why?
Stannis doesn't have manpower to fight two wars. On the other hand, why stand by and do nothing? I'm at a loss here.
149)Love the scarecrows.
Yep, a good ploy!
150) The battle at the wall was like the last showdown. Were you surprised the brothers won? Were you surprised Ygritte died? At least I think she died. I can't be certain until she's truly buried.
I was surprised. Seemed like all was lost, but we should have know the Crows had a plan. You're right, I won't believe Ygritte is dead until she's buried. It's possible she'll live and give Jon an heir.
Lisa Kay’s Answers to Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 48 (Jon) - Chapter 51 (Catelyn) “Wow! One of the smallest sections of 4 chapters we've read thus far, but it packed a punch.”
Yes, it was! I put off reading it as long as I could and just had to power through it all so I could catch up with you ladies.
125) Poor Jon. Finds out about the false reports about Bran and Rickon and finds out what happened to Mormont. Plus, the wall is almost deserted. I'm a little worried that the wall will be overtaken while Jon is out of it. Were you surprised to find some of the brothers had returned and told the story of what happened?
I feel so bad for Jon Snow. I just want to send him a raven telling him, “No! It is not true. All your brothers and sisters (cousins?) are all safe.” Yes, very surprised that some of them returned – and to tell the truth of it.
126) Jon's confession about Ygritte shows how he feels guilty about what happened. Think a Jon junior will result from their relationship?
This is what I’m thinking!
127) I can't believe, well yes I can, what happened to Robb and Catelyn. Got an uneasy feeling when Frey made the speech about not forgetting things.
That was pretty awful, but I must admit I heard about “Red Wedding”. Somehow I thought Catelyn would start it all, bu some taken offence, for all she warned against that. But, I was mistaken. It was all planned out ahead of time.
128) What do you think happened to Edmure? If he's not dead how will he react to finding his sister and nephew murdered?
I think that he is dead. But, if not, then he is being held hostage.
129) I guess we now know why they wanted Robb's wife with him.
I know! I’m afraid they will go after her next.
130) Poor Arya. Once again she can't get a break. What do you think will happen to her?
I think that was an ominous ending to a chapter. I can’t imagine whose clutches she is in now!
131) Thoughts about the Hound? Will he try to sell her off again, and, if so, to who?
I don’t know!
@LisareneeThe numbering for: Questions for Chapter 52 (Arya) - Chapter 55 (Jon)
is all screwed up. I'm changing my answers. I'll change them back if it makes it less confusing.
Lisa Kay’s Answers to Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 52 (Arya) - Chapter 55 (Jon) 132) I felt so bad for Arya. Do you think she's okay? I wonder why they didn't just lump this chapter in with the previous Arya chapter?
I think GRRM wanted to break up Catelyn’s chapters. I don’t even know if it was the Hound that struck her. If it is, he’ll ransom her off to someone. Who though? King Stannis? Or do you think Roose Bolton really does have her?
133) Sounded like Edmure is alive, but Riverun will be taken away or did I get that wrong? Poor Tyrion. If Sansa didn't hate him before she might now.
No, I think you got it right. Really! Sansa is going to despise him.
134) Interesting to find Tywin is drugging Joffrey. Anyone else surprised?
I was!
135) More information about the fall of the Targaryens. What do you make of it?
It is all tying together, but I don’t know how. I wish I had known to mark each passage. I thought it was just history building, but there are answers there, I think. I should have known better.
136) Arya and Roose Bolton? Thoughts? Gah!
I know! I hope it is not true.
137) 2 of the kings Melisandre promised would die have. Is Joffrey next?
I can only hope!
138) Thoughts about Davos and if Joffrey does die will the Edric then be sacrificed?
I think Edric’s days are numbered.
139) So it looks like Davos will not tell Stannis about the Wall? I wonder why?
I think he thinks King Stannis will certainly want a dragon then – and Edric’s life will be forfeit.
140) Love the scarecrows.
Yeah. That was pretty funny.
141) The battle at the wall was like the last showdown. Were you surprised the brothers won? Were you surprised Ygritte died? At least I think she died. I can't be certain until she's truly buried.
I was surprised at it all. And I think they better burn Ygitte, not bury her. :)
@SandyI changed the numbering… hope that doesn’t confuse you. Maybe I better put them in parentheses.
#132 - So, you think it was Sandor Clegane, the Hound that beamed Arya too? Good. I just hope she isn't in Roose Bolton's clutches. I'm betting she's not.
#135 - You are right about Lord Tywin; he is enjoying this too much.
#136 (146) – Proof positive!
#137 (147) – LOL! She would. I think he is going to be added to her prayer list.
#139 (148) – That is the thing about this book. Almost everyone has two enemies. Or is vying for an alliance against another. I think it was just natural that she wanted those people named for the leeches dead.
#140 (147) – Yes, I don’t know how she can justify sacrificing Edric. It is just sick.
#141 (150) – Where is Dondarrion’s Thoros of Mye, the red priest, when you need him, eh?
Ah, I see what you mean about the numbering..I obviously wasn't paying attention!#132 -- Hmmmm, I just automatically assumed it was the Hound since he was trying to talk her out of going into the castle. And, she saw him riding toward her with his longaxe. Certainly, it could have been someone else (Bolton!) We've learned that things are rarely what they seem.
Sandy wrote: "#132 -- Hmmmm, I just automatically assumed it was the Hound since he was trying to talk her out of going into the..."Good. Glad we agree. :) Now, if we can just convince GRRM, LOL!
Oops! Didn't notice I messed up on the numbering. Woops! Thanks.
Not a problem, Lisarenne. It woke me up. :) I think I can do the questions on Thursday, if you like.
I can do today's questions and/or Friday's. Let me know!
#132 - I also thought it was the Hound knocking her out and taking her so she wouldn't go and get herself killed.I also was bothered by the Red Wedding, but was really bothered by the reports afterwards. The dismembering of Rob and Grey Wolf. Also what was the funeral rights of the Tully's? Why was throwing Cat in the moat naked important?
Sansa is stilling p*ssing me off. Poor Tyrion. He really is trying, she sees he is a gentle person and treated like crap by his own family, why can't she find true friendship in him. Oh wait I know why, because she's a twit!
What else could poor Arya go through? I confess I really am not drawn into her character like everyone else. She kinda irritates me, but come on, let her have a little good luck somewhere!
When Hoster died, they placed his body on a boat, sent it down the river, and fired a flaming arrow to set it on fire. "The Tullys drew their strength from the river, and it was to the river they returned when their lives had run their course." (Ch. 35 Catelyn). So, tossing Catelyn's naked body in the moat is disrespecting and making fun of the Tully funeral tradition.I also hate what they did to Robb and Grey Wolf. The perpetrators will meet a nasty end, I'm sure!
Sansa = Twit...so true, and also she is still very young. I think eventually she may come to trust Tyrion. Heck, maybe he'll help her escape!
Sandy wrote: "When Hoster died, they placed his body on a boat, sent it down the river, and fired a flaming arrow to set it on fire. "The Tullys drew their strength from the river, and it was to the river they ..."AH, yep I remember that now. I guess I was in such shock over the wolf/Rob thing I was drawing a blank about the Tully ritual.
I can't wait to see what everyone thinks of the next Dany chapter....
Thanks you guys. I was just going to ask if someone could do today's questions. I'm a bit behind today.
No problem, I'll get them up shortly!
Questions for Chapter 56 Bran through Chapter 59 Sansa142. Did anyone think that Sam and Gilly were hiding in the well? I was completely surprised by that.
143. I can’t remember….did Jon, Sam and the other Night’s Watchmen know about Bran and Rickon being “murdered?” Sam doesn’t seem too surprised that Bran is alive.
144. More info on the Elk Rider: He has cold hands; he was sent to find someone; he can’t pass beyond the wall due to a spell; he wears black and is as pale as a wight; he speaks (as opposed to wights who do not); he knows about the black gate; he was sent to find someone, and that someone is not Sam. Meera was startled when she heard about him. Who/what is he? Jojen says that Bran is the one Sam was told to bring. What makes Jojen think this? Did he dream it?
145. Oh, Dany. Why does she think it’s so important to take the city of Meereen? It sounds like there are no practical ways to take the city. On the other hand, if they march, much of her group could die of disease or starvation. Sounds like she’s got quite the problem on her hands.
146. Thoughts on Dany’s “admiration” of Daario? It kind of gives me the creeps.
147. Who was the Titan’s Bastard? I can’t remember!
148. Did anyone think that Whitebeard was Berristan Selmy? You smart ladies knew he had to be someone important, and I recall someone asked about Selmy recently.
149. Dany feels betrayed by both Selmy and Jorah, even though both have proven to be loyal allies and protectors. Is she right to still suspect them? Did we know that Jorah was in cahoots with Varys early on? (This was made clear in the TV series, but I can’t recall if it was made clear in the books until this chapter.) What will Dany do now?? The next Dany chapter is too far away!
150. Is anyone else surprised that Tyrion keeps taking the risk of seeing Shae? Does Sansa have a clue at all about her?
151. Joffrey is such a little sh-t. He behaves like a 2-year old. I was amazed that Tyrion held is tongue while Joffrey offended Sansa and sliced the rare book. Interesting that Tyrion said Viserys should have been included in Kaeth’s book. Viserys had poisoned his nephew Baelor to save the realm. Seems like Tyrion wants to do the same.
147. Who was the Titan’s Bastard? I can’t remember! I can't remember either Sandy. I just thought, oh well doesn't matter now, he's dead lol148. Did anyone think that Whitebeard was Berristan Selmy? You smart ladies knew he had to be someone important, and I recall someone asked about Selmy recently. Although I did wonder where Selmy was and whose side he would turn up on, I did not expect it to be Dany's side.
149. Dany feels betrayed by both Selmy and Jorah, even though both have proven to be loyal allies and protectors. Is she right to still suspect them? Did we know that Jorah was in cahoots with Varys early on? (This was made clear in the TV series, but I can’t recall if it was made clear in the books until this chapter.) What will Dany do now?? The next Dany chapter is too far away!
wow their both in deep CaCa aren't they! I mean I think Dany is gonna send them into the sewers to break into Meereen. They both acted like "shits" to her (by continuing to lie) so why not send them into the filth. Whose lie upsets you more, Jorrah or Selmy?
I totally forgot that Jorrah was in cahoots with Varys. Did we find out when she was almost poisoned?
150. Is anyone else surprised that Tyrion keeps taking the risk of seeing Shae? Does Sansa have a clue at all about her? YES. I think Varys is right when he mentioned how he takes risks for her. Do you think he will really marry her off?
Answers to Sandy’s Questions for Chapter 56 Bran through Chapter 59 Sansa 142. Did anyone think that Sam and Gilly were hiding in the well? I was completely surprised by that.
Me too! Totally stunned.
143. I can’t remember….did Jon, Sam and the other Night’s Watchmen know about Bran and Rickon being “murdered?” Sam doesn’t seem too surprised that Bran is alive.
No, Jon didn’t know until told in his last chapter, so I assume Sam wouldn’t know either.
144. More info on the Elk Rider: He has cold hands; he was sent to find someone; he can’t pass beyond the wall due to a spell; he wears black and is as pale as a wight; he speaks (as opposed to wights who do not); he knows about the black gate; he was sent to find someone, and that someone is not Sam. Meera was startled when she heard about him. Who/what is he? Jojen says that Bran is the one Sam was told to bring. What makes Jojen think this? Did he dream it?
I was thinking maybe Coldhands is one of the frozen sentry. I don’t know, maybe? Other than that, I don’t know who or what he is. I think Jojen had a greendream that it was Bran Sam was told to bring.
145. Oh, Dany. Why does she think it’s so important to take the city of Meereen? It sounds like there are no practical ways to take the city. On the other hand, if they march, much of her group could die of disease or starvation. Sounds like she’s got quite the problem on her hands.
I say, “Good for Dany!” Storm the place. She is on a mission to free slaves. Good for her. She might as well fight, as starve. But, I'll admit it is a bit of a Catch 22.
146. Thoughts on Dany’s “admiration” of Daario? It kind of gives me the creeps.
Yeah, I’m worried about that.
147. Who was the Titan’s Bastard? I can’t remember!
I must confess I didn’t know and checked and double checked the appendix. (I thought he might be one of the slaver traders that escaped one of the cities.) It bugged me so much that I caved and checked “A Wiki of Fire and Ice”:
Mero, better known as the Titan's Bastard, was the commander of the mercenary company, the Second Sons.148. Did anyone think that Whitebeard was Berristan Selmy? You smart ladies knew he had to be someone important, and I recall someone asked about Selmy recently.
The Second Sons are a mercenary company found in the Free Cities. At Yunkai, where they were contracted to face Daenerys Targaryen and her forces, they numbered five hundred men. Their banner is a broken sword. Under the command of Mero, their reputation has fallen to the point where it has become hard for them to find work in the Free Cities.
Mero attended the parley with Daenerys and decided to mull her offer of switching sides or departing only on the condition that she give him a wagon of wine. He brought the wine back to his men and while they were getting drunk on it that night, Daenerys sent her forces on the attack. The Second Sons were routed and Mero fled before he could be captured.
Nope. Total surprise. I did wonder where he was. His character stood out to strong to just fade away. I asked about him when Janos Slynt was brought up in questions #91 because he was present in that scene with him.
149. Dany feels betrayed by both Selmy and Jorah, even though both have proven to be loyal allies and protectors. Is she right to still suspect them? Did we know that Jorah was in cahoots with Varys early on? (This was made clear in the TV series, but I can’t recall if it was made clear in the books until this chapter.) What will Dany do now?? The next Dany chapter is too far away!
I don’t blame her for being upset; they’ll have to prove themselves a bit more to her. I don’t think it was made clear in the book about Ser Jorah, but someone was keeping Varys informed of Dany’s business – and then the info dried up! I think someone hinted at it here in the posted answers.
150. Is anyone else surprised that Tyrion keeps taking the risk of seeing Shae? Does Sansa have a clue at all about her?
I’m not surprised. Tyrion, like all of us, just wants to be loved. He gets more than sex from Shae. I don’t think Sansa knows. I doubt if she would care. I think Tyrion would care if Sansa knew; he was to keep that slim possibility of hope for the two of them open.
151. Joffrey is such a little sh-t. He behaves like a 2-year old. I was amazed that Tyrion held is tongue while Joffrey offended Sansa and sliced the rare book. Interesting that Tyrion said Viserys should have been included in Kaeth’s book. Viserys had poisoned his nephew Baelor to save the realm. Seems like Tyrion wants to do the same.
King Joffrey is a little pissant. I was amazed about Tyrion too. Re: Viserys, I think Tyrion is an objective observer of history and people. Not that he doesn’t use it to his benefit, but I think he appreciates it more than others. I guess I should say he is more objective than others. Poisoning is too good for King Joffrey.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
A Feast for Crows (other topics)Outlander (other topics)
A Clash of Kings (other topics)
The Secret Lives of the Four Wives (other topics)
A Storm of Swords (other topics)
@Lisa Kay -- I love what you said about percentage of goodness...you're absolutely right!
It would make sense that the Others or Wights or whatever scary things are out there are turning the babies to create an army. When Craster gives them the boys **shudder**, the creatures in turn leave him and the women alone.