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A Storm of Swords (A Song of Ice and Fire, #3) by George R.R. Martin (buddy 3rd in series read) start date August 10th
message 101:
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Lisarenee
(new)
Aug 16, 2011 01:29PM
Laura, I haven't figured out what a shadow baby entails, but it takes on the shape of whoever Melisander picks so I'm thinking yes, a person can become a shadow baby. The question is how?
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Lisa Kay, I think it was Sandy who first wondered what was happening with Rickon.
Maybe he will get his own POV in the next book. :-)
Now you have me thinking of taking a peek to find out. :)
@Sandy#64 - I think you are right. Why are they going there again? LOL!
#65 - LMAO!
#67 - Mind Meld!
#68 - True.
#70 - "Maybe I just don't like her cuddling up to Jon."
LOL! Okay.
#74 - Justice to the slavetraders."
Well said!!
#76 - Yes! How do I choose b/t Dany and Jon Snow? I guess that is why I want them to both rule in the end.
Lisarenee wrote: "Lisa Kay, I think it was Sandy who first wondered what was happening with Rickon."Oh, okay! Thanks.
Sandy wrote: "Maybe he will get his own POV in the next book. :-)"Who?
Lisarenee wrote: "Now you have me thinking of taking a peek to find out. :)"Me too! I downloaded the sample but no clue there!
I'll check I bought the boxed set. :) knew I'd read them all after the first book.
Um, guys. The next two books were meant to be one, but as Martin kept getting farther into the story he realized he had too much for one book and wasn't finished. He broke it up into two parallel halves. So half of the characters are in one book and half are in the other. Gah! Dare we read both at once? Probably a crazy thought. Rickon didn't have any chapters named after him in the next one. Cersei, however, does.
I know. I don't know if I want to hear Cersei's thoughts.
The only problem I see with reading the two books together as Lisarenee suggests is that eventually ADoD moves forward. Basically, ADoD and AFfC run during the same timeline until about two-thirds through ADoD, then the timeline moves forward. So they don't really cover exactly the same time span. (Does that make sense?)I was actually really excited to read Cersei's POV. Finally, we get to know what's going on in her twisted mind.
I am interested to see Cersei's POV too!RE: reading the books at the same time, often the characters are reacting to something that happened "off screen" so we may get spoilers along the way.
Questions for Chapter 28 (Sansa) - Chapter 31(Jaime)77) I feel so bad for both Sansa and Tyrion. What an awful position for the two of them to be put in. Sansa doesn't trust any of the Lannisters and can't see past the outer shell of Tyrion to his inner beauty. Tyrion has wedded a 12 year old girl. He sees it like it is and doesn't force her. Gotta love him and feel awful for him at the same time. Curse you Cersei and Tywin! Okay got my meladramatic moment out of the way. :)
78) The Tyrells acted like Sansa had the plague. Do you think they thought she knew she'd be wed to Tyrion?
79) Joffrey disgusts me. I hope he gets his in the end. He's one character I wouldn't miss. Anyone else agree?
80) Loved Tyrion's standing his ground and not allowing them to have a traditional bedding. Do you think not having sealed the deal will prove to be a mistake for both of them?
81) Tansy's secret identity is finally revealed. Now what the heck does she have to do with anything? Okay here's something I've been pondering for a while. Could she be Tyrion's Tysha? His first wife? I know crazy, right?
82) I think Gendry has a crush on Arya. He acted awful strange when she said he wasn't her brother. Could she like him too? I think the Lady doth protest too much.:)
83) Arya seems to once again be in the frying pan. I'm worried for her. Is anyone else?
84) I now know why I dislike Ygritte. She keeps telling Jon he knows nothing. Getting a bit annoyed by that.
85) The Horn of Winter - I think I know what happened to it, but does Jon have it?
86) Jaime is proving himself to be a nice guy. Darn him. I can't believe he lost his hand. I feel awful for him. Liked his statement that Brienne was his protector. I'm extremely sad the two won't be able to sword fight again. *sniff* Any thoughts on what happened and about the new knowledge we gained?
I missed reading last night so now I'm gonna be behind!
Maybe next month when we read the next book we should have a couple days set aside as 'Catch Me Up' days?
Answers to Questions for Chapter 28 (Sansa) - Chapter 31(Jaime)77) I feel so bad for both Sansa and Tyrion. What an awful position for the two of them to be put in. Sansa doesn't trust any of the Lannisters and can't see past the outer shell of Tyrion to his inner beauty. Tyrion has wedded a 12 year old girl. He sees it like it is and doesn't force her. Gotta love him and feel awful for him at the same time. Curse you Cersei and Tywin! Okay got my meladramatic moment out of the way. :)
First, I can't believe this actually happened!
I'm glad Tyrion wants to wait. He is a good person at heart. I suppose they could have wed her to someone more brutal. Sansa is being very brave. I am proud of her!
78) The Tyrells acted like Sansa had the plague. Do you think they thought she knew she'd be wed to Tyrion?
My thoughts were they just didn't want to rock the boat. "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything." The last thing they want is to be on the Lannisters' bad side. I think they were blindsided by the wedding.
79) Joffrey disgusts me. I hope he gets his in the end. He's one character I wouldn't miss. Anyone else agree?
He's one that I love to hate. He will get his just rewards...sadly, we have to wait a long time for that!
80) Loved Tyrion's standing his ground and not allowing them to have a traditional bedding. Do you think not having sealed the deal will prove to be a mistake for both of them?
It may make it easier to be annulled, so maybe it will be a good thing.
81) Tansy's secret identity is finally revealed. Now what the heck does she have to do with anything? Okay here's something I've been pondering for a while. Could she be Tyrion's Tysha? His first wife? I know crazy, right?
It seemed to me that Hoster was speaking of Tansy in his ramblings as someone he loved. Maybe he had an affair with her and they have children? Tully bastards? Or perhaps she is his daughter??
82) I think Gendry has a crush on Arya. He acted awful strange when she said he wasn't her brother. Could she like him too? I think the Lady doth protest too much.:)
My impression of Arya is that she is a warrior princess who has no interest in romantic love or marriage. I think she thinks of Gendry has a brother. I also have trouble getting past the age thing...she is 10!!
83) Arya seems to once again be in the frying pan. I'm worried for her. Is anyone else?
Yes, absolutely. I haven't stopped worrying since the moment the Lannister's men accosted her and Syrio Florel.
84) I now know why I dislike Ygritte. She keeps telling Jon he knows nothing. Getting a bit annoyed by that.
Oh, man that is so annoying isn't it? Find another catch phrase, woman! I'm worried Jon is thinking more with his .... you know.
85) The Horn of Winter - I think I know what happened to it, but does Jon have it?
I am drawing a blank...what is it and what do you think happened to it?
86) Jaime is proving himself to be a nice guy. Darn him. I can't believe he lost his hand. I feel awful for him. Liked his statement that Brienne was his protector. I'm extremely sad the two won't be able to sword fight again. *sniff* Any thoughts on what happened and about the new knowledge we gained?
Wow, this was such a brutally sad chapter. Way back in GOT when Jaime pushed Bran, I wanted him to suffer in all the levels of purgatory. But now that I see him actually suffering I feel very badly for him. Such a dilemma! GRRM has done a great job of humanizing Jaime so we, the readers, can sympathize with his plight.
Laura’s Answers to Questions for Chapter 28 (Sansa) - Chapter 31(Jaime)77) I feel so bad for both Sansa and Tyrion. What an awful position for the two of them to be put in. Sansa doesn't trust any of the Lannisters and can't see past the outer shell of Tyrion to his inner beauty. Tyrion has wedded a 12-year-old girl. He sees it like it is and doesn't force her. Gotta love him and feel awful for him at the same time. Curse you Cersei and Tywin! Okay got my melodramatic moment out of the way. :)
As much as Sansa totally lucked out that they married her to Tyrion, it really sucks at the same time. It’s like all the things she held true or that she expected out of life, the Lannisters keep cutting away one by one. Here’s your dad’s head. Knights are actually mostly jerks and rapists. Your prince is a sadistic brat. You can’t marry who you want. Oh, and we’re going to marry you to someone who is the opposite of what you dreamed of.
78) The Tyrells acted like Sansa had the plague. Do you think they thought she knew she'd be wed to Tyrion?
I don’t think so. I think they figured out that the Lannisters knew what they were up to and that’s why they married her to Tyrion so quickly. So I think the Tyrells are sort of uneasy right now and it’s best to distance themselves from Sansa (and probably better for Sansa too).
79) Joffrey disgusts me. I hope he gets his in the end. He's one character I wouldn't miss. Anyone else agree?
Aw, but I’d miss … no. I wouldn’t miss anything about him.
80) Loved Tyrion's standing his ground and not allowing them to have a traditional bedding. Do you think not having sealed the deal will prove to be a mistake for both of them?
Possibly. But I don’t think there can be any mistaking that Sansa was wed against her will. I loved that Sansa stood her ground (literally) and wouldn’t kneel so Tyrion could put the cape on her. Yeah, I feel a little bad for Tyrion, because it’s not his fault, but I was super proud of Sansa. She was so humiliated by what the Lannisters were doing to her and this was her way of rebelling and letting them know.
82) I think Gendry has a crush on Arya. He acted awful strange when she said he wasn't her brother. Could she like him too? I think the Lady doth protest too much.:)
I think Arya’s too young and too … wild at this point to care about this stuff. So although it was pretty obvious that Gendry’s acting weird because he likes Arya and has no idea what to do about it (for a variety of reasons: she’s highborn, he’s a bastard orphan; he thought she was a boy for the majority of time they knew one another; she’s really young still; he’s seen her do thing’s he didn’t quite approve of (killing the guard at Harrenhal, the whole “Weasel soup” incident)), I don't think Arya caught on. It's just not on her mind, she doesn't think that way.
83) Arya seems to once again be in the frying pan. I'm worried for her. Is anyone else?
I think I’m always in a perpetual state of worry when it comes to Arya. But I’m also super confident in her ability to survive.
84) I now know why I dislike Ygritte. She keeps telling Jon he knows nothing. Getting a bit annoyed by that.
I actually kind of like that about her. Because she’s right: Jon really doesn’t know or understand anything about the wildlings. And this is the way Jon is going to actually realize it. Many of the Night’s Watch simply think shallow thoughts about the wildlings without truly understanding them and why they do the things they do. But Ygritte is forcing Jon to actually understand them. It's going to shape him from here on out.
86) Jaime is proving himself to be a nice guy. Darn him. I can't believe he lost his hand. I feel awful for him. Liked his statement that Brienne was his protector. I'm extremely sad the two won't be able to sword fight again. *sniff* Any thoughts on what happened and about the new knowledge we gained?
It sucks, but I think this was a good sort of justice for Jaime. He did bad things in the past, but instead of losing his life, he lost something equally important, but he gets to live on to continue to change and grow. I definitely don’t think he would have been as nice of a guy before being held at Riverrun. All of the horrible things that happen to him have the purpose of making him a better character.
That being said, I now have a really big concern. We’re all clearly starting to like Jaime, which I think is GRRM’s evil plan. My prediction: When Dany finally gets to Westeros, she’s going to find herself face-to-face with Jaime, the man who betrayed her father and killed him when he was supposed to protect the king, and she’s going to have him killed really horribly. And we’re all going to be really upset because we had started to like him so much.
Sandy said:"I also have trouble getting past the age thing...she is 10!!"
She acts so much older that I often times forget. I don't want the two to have a "serious" relationship, just a puppy love thing.
"I'm worried Jon is thinking more with his .... you know."
I think he and Robb have that in common.
Wow, this was such a brutally sad chapter. Way back in GOT when Jaime pushed Bran, I wanted him to suffer in all the levels of purgatory. But now that I see him actually suffering I feel very badly for him. Such a dilemma! GRRM has done a great job of humanizing Jaime so we, the readers, can sympathize with his plight.
I wonder if we should be watching to see if what goes around comes around. Perhaps we should be keeping score?
I am drawing a blank...what is it and what do you think happened to it?
I'm thinking the Horn of Winter was the horn that didn't make a sound that Jon found in the box way back when with the obsidian arrow heads and knives. I think there were knives.
Laura said,"I think Arya’s too young and too … wild at this point to care about this stuff. So although it was pretty obvious that Gendry’s acting weird because he likes Arya and has no idea what to do about it (for a variety of reasons: she’s highborn, he’s a bastard orphan; he thought she was a boy for the majority of time they knew one another; she’s really young still; he’s seen her do thing’s he didn’t quite approve of (killing the guard at Harrenhal, the whole “Weasel soup” incident)), I don't think Arya caught on. It's just not on her mind, she doesn't think that way."
You and Sandy are right. I must admit I keep forgetting Gendry's age as well. Isn't he 18 or so? I don't recall.
I now have a really big concern. We’re all clearly starting to like Jaime, which I think is GRRM’s evil plan. My prediction: When Dany finally gets to Westeros, she’s going to find herself face-to-face with Jaime, the man who betrayed her father and killed him when he was supposed to protect the king, and she’s going to have him killed really horribly. And we’re all going to be really upset because we had started to like him so much.
I think you're right. Curse you Martin (not really). Guess my melodramatic moments weren't done for the day after all.
Lisarenee wrote: I'm thinking the Horn of Winter was the horn that didn't make a sound that Jon found in the box way back when with the obsidian arrow heads and knives. I think there were knives.I didn't remember there was a horn in there at all. So you just blew my mind.
Laura, I remember it because it reminded me of the bells that didn't ring in the Polar express.
Aww, I love that book!(crack!theory made in only slight seriousness) Maybe when Jon blew the horn it didn't work because he didn't believe in it or understand it. But now, because Ygritte is dropping knowledge on him and informing him on how much he doesn't know, if he blows that horn again it would work. Not that it matters, because I'm pretty sure he doesn't even have the horn.
Okay, we can now resume serious discussions on this book!
I was thinking the same thing Laura, but would Martin do that? That may be telling that he's a fan of the Polar Express.If Ygritte changes her Jon mantra to, "Don't you believe Jon?" I'll die laughing.
Questions for Chapter 28 (Sansa) - Chapter 31 (Jaime) 77) I feel so bad for both Sansa and Tyrion. What an awful position for the two of them to be put in. Sansa doesn't trust any of the Lannisters and can't see past the outer shell of Tyrion to his inner beauty. Tyrion has wedded a 12 year old girl. He sees it like it is and doesn't force her. Gotta love him and feel awful for him at the same time. Curse you Cersei and Tywin! Okay got my melodramatic moment out of the way. :)
Yeah, it was a pretty unhappy day for both of them. If Sansa had a little more maturity, she would see how “lucky” she is to be marrying Tyrion and not someone much, much worse. Still, my heart goes out to her and to Tyrion also. It is easy to say “beauty is only skin deep” but I can’t really blame her; he must look a wreck right now, missing half a nose. Thank goodness they didn’t have to have a public bedding.
78) The Tyrells acted like Sansa had the plague. Do you think they thought she knew she'd be wed to Tyrion?
Really, WTH was that all about? Well, Garlan spoke kindly to her. And he gave her some good console regarding Tyrion. Maybe it will sink in… eventually.
79) Joffrey disgusts me. I hope he gets his in the end. He's one character I wouldn't miss. Anyone else agree?
Pissant. I do too! His end can't come soon enough for me. I won’t miss him either. :) I am only comforted in knowing Tyrion will never willing let Sansa go to his bed.
80) Loved Tyrion's standing his ground and not allowing them to have a traditional bedding. Do you think not having sealed the deal will prove to be a mistake for both of them?
I loved his courage too! No, not a mistake right now. Sansa needs time. I think Tyrion is a man who has patience for a future reward. Maybe she’ll come to care for him, is some way.
81) Tansy's secret identity is finally revealed. Now what the heck does she have to do with anything? Okay here's something I've been pondering for a while. Could she be Tyrion's Tysha? His first wife? I know crazy, right?
I don’t know. I can’t believe you thought that about Tysha/Tansy! I’ve wondered that myself, so – not so crazy. Or maybe yes, LOL! I think it makes even more sense, as she runs a brothel now.
82) I think Gendry has a crush on Arya. He acted awful strange when she said he wasn't her brother. Could she like him too? I think the Lady doth protest too much.:)
I think he does too. Hormones, don’t you just love them? I think she does like him, but she is too young to really have a deeper understanding.
83) Arya seems to once again be in the frying pan. I'm worried for her. Is anyone else?
Oh, yeah! She is always treading on thin ice. I was worried over her giving those guys water.
84) I now know why I dislike Ygritte. She keeps telling Jon he knows nothing. Getting a bit annoyed by that.
I think you're right; it is her mantra, LOL! She may change it soon. He obviously knew how to please her in bed.
85) The Horn of Winter - I think I know what happened to it, but does Jon have it?
I can’t remember if Jon has it are not. Did he keep that box?
86) Jaime is proving himself to be a nice guy. Darn him. I can't believe he lost his hand. I feel awful for him. Liked his statement that Brienne was his protector. I'm extremely sad the two won't be able to sword fight again. *sniff* Any thoughts on what happened and about the new knowledge we gained?
“I’ll scream very loudly.” Drat! Yes, he is making me smile and laugh-out-loud. Double drat!
Lisa Kay, The only thing I remember was they were talking about using it as a cup. As for Jaime I now wonder if perhaps he acted without thinking because he couldn't bare something happening that wouldn't allow him and his sister to be together. Even though it's twisted.
I think Sam has the horn now.I was thinking about Brienne and Jaime...I think Laura is right in that we will see a showdown involving Jaime with a character we like and it will be difficult to take sides.
Also, I can see that one day, Brienne will actually be Jaime's loyal protector and swear her allegiance to him after what they have been through together. He helped make sure she wasn't raped (at least not yet!) and she will feel she owes him a debt of gratitude.
Sandy said, "Also, I can see that one day, Brienne will actually be Jaime's loyal protector and swear her allegiance to him after what they have been through together. He helped make sure she wasn't raped (at least not yet!) and she will feel she owes him a debt of gratitude."I'm not sure about that yet, but it's a definite possibility. I'd like to know more about Brienne. She's an interesting character. She's got quite a few chapters in the next book.
Oh, yay! :-)So, what the heck are we going to do after we finish DOD? We need a new juicy series to sink our teeth into.
I am planning to re-read Outlander books starting in January. I am looking forward to reuniting with Jamie Fraser. :-)
I've never read the Outlander series, but I've heard good things about it. We'll put another nomination section up next month for the next group series read. That is how we ended up reading this series. So start thinking of possibilities.
Outlander is BEST SERIES EVER (IMHO). :-)Great, I will look for a series to nominate next.
Lisarenee wrote: "Lisa Kay, The only thing I remember was they were talking about using it as a cup."Ah. I seem to remember that now... Or maybe I am just susceptible to suggestions.
Sandy wrote: "Outlander is BEST SERIES EVER (IMHO). :-)"The Outlander series was mesmerizing. I stopped somewhere around book 5, I think. I did them in both audio and paperback. The audio is awesome.
Oh, Lisa Kay, Book 6 is my favorite of the lot! Hope you move on to it, then we can discuss. :-)
I read
when it first came out; I got several people hooked on that series. I should get some kind of kick-back. :)
Questions for Chapter 32(Tyrion) - Chapter 35 (Catelyn)87) I felt so bad for Tyrion when his feelings were displayed about the kind of marriage he wanted with Sansa.
88) Guess Jaime isn't going to need that second sword. Notice how Lord Tywin didn't offer it to Tyrion.
89) I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty suspicious of the singer. Does he have an ulterior motive? He and Tyrion's girl seem to know way more than they should. Could they be spies or something worse? Remember how she wanted access to the wedding as well?
90) Now know the messages said nothing about the others. Wonder where the Others are now?
91) Does anyone remember Janos Slynt? Is he the one who had a problem with Jon?
92) Anyone else shocked by the death of Ser Mormont and Craster?
93) Samwell and Gilly? What do you make of the escape? As a mom of three children my first thought was, "Ouch!" I can't imagine going on a journey after just giving birth. Will she be able to help him get to the wall? Traveling with a new born? Will all of them make it?
94) Who are Cater's sons? That sounded questionable.
95) What did you think of the confrontation between the Hound and Arya?
96) The men they're with still baffle me. Are they good or bad? They say they're Robert's men. What does that mean and what will they do with Arya?
97) Would you trust the Freys? Weren't one of the boys killed part Frey? I don't think I'd trust them.
Answers to Questions for Chapter 32(Tyrion) - Chapter 35 (Catelyn)87) I felt so bad for Tyrion when his feelings were displayed about the kind of marriage he wanted with Sansa.
It's sad that he wants a real, loving relationship but probably won't get it. I think Sansa could come to care for him but not fall in love with him.
88) Guess Jaime isn't going to need that second sword. Notice how Lord Tywin didn't offer it to Tyrion.
Oh, right. I can't wait to see Tywin's reaction when he learns what happened to Jaime. He'll probably blame Catelyn.
89) I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty suspicious of the singer. Does he have an ulterior motive? He and Tyrion's girl seem to know way more than they should. Could they be spies or something worse? Remember how she wanted access to the wedding as well?
Are you referring to Symon Silver Tongue? If so, sounds like Tyrion is having Bronn kill him. I didn't understand the encounter between Tyrion/Symon, but you're right, the singer knows too much.
90) Now know the messages said nothing about the others. Wonder where the Others are now?
Near the wall?
91) Does anyone remember Janos Slynt? Is he the one who had a problem with Jon?
I really wish I could remember. Wasn't he one that Tyrion sent to the Wall to get out of the way?
92) Anyone else shocked by the death of Ser Mormont and Craster?
Ser Mormont, not really. Craster, yes!
93) Samwell and Gilly? What do you make of the escape? As a mom of three children my first thought was, "Ouch!" I can't imagine going on a journey after just giving birth. Will she be able to help him get to the wall? Traveling with a new born? Will all of them make it?
It will be a dangerous trip! I would imagine riding on a horse for long periods of time would be impossible. Maybe they can make a litter to carry her and the baby? I kind of like how this is turning out for Sam...he knows he's a coward but he's forced to be heroic and is then astonished when he succeeds.
94) Who are Cater's sons? That sounded questionable.
I hope they are not "Others" now. Doesn't he sacrifice the baby boys to the Others?
95) What did you think of the confrontation between the Hound and Arya?
I really thought the Hound would be killed. When he wasn't, I really thought Arya would finish him off.
96) The men they're with still baffle me. Are they good or bad? They say they're Robert's men. What does that mean and what will they do with Arya?
I think they will return her to Riverrun. She will probably run away first!
97) Would you trust the Freys? Weren't one of the boys killed part Frey? I don't think I'd trust them.
At this point, I think they have no choice. They need to keep as many allies as they possibly. can.
Laura’s Answers to Questions for Chapter 32(Tyrion) - Chapter 35 (Catelyn)87) I felt so bad for Tyrion when his feelings were displayed about the kind of marriage he wanted with Sansa.
At this point, I’m always feeling bad for Tyrion. He was so in charge in ACoK, and this book is a really huge contrast to that.
88) Guess Jaime isn't going to need that second sword. Notice how Lord Tywin didn't offer it to Tyrion.
I would have been shocked if Tywin offered it to Tyrion. I didn’t think he was going to because he’s an awful person and father.
89) I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty suspicious of the singer. Does he have an ulterior motive? He and Tyrion's girl seem to know way more than they should. Could they be spies or something worse? Remember how she wanted access to the wedding as well?
I couldn’t tell if I should be suspicious, or if Shae was getting tired of being hidden and wanted to be more pampered and whatnot. I sort of thought she just had designs above her station (so-to-speak), which makes me just as nervous. If you want something badly, you can easily be bought by someone else who can offer it to you.
90) Now know the messages said nothing about the others. Wonder where the Others are now?
I’m actually surprised that this far into the series there is so little about the Others. After seeing them in the prologue in AGoT, I assumed they would play a bigger role. But then, GRRM also thought the series was going to be a trilogy (I believe, don’t quote me on that), so I don’t think he expected to write such an elaborate story having to do with all of the grabs for the throne.
91) Does anyone remember Janos Slynt? Is he the one who had a problem with Jon?
Ser Alliser Thorne had a problem with Jon. Janos Slynt was Commander of the City Watch (had to look up the official title b/c I had no clue what it was called!) in King’s Landing. But Tyrion didn’t trust him so he got rid of Janos and sent him to the Wall.
92) Anyone else shocked by the death of Ser Mormont and Craster?
Craster had it coming, but I was shocked about Lord Mormont. I think the way it was written was really well done too, because Sam goes into shock and the next thing we know he’s holding Mormont’s head. That’s going to look awesome in the show.
It's funny, because Sandy said the opposite!
93) Samwell and Gilly? What do you make of the escape? As a mom of three children my first thought was, "Ouch!" I can't imagine going on a journey after just giving birth. Will she be able to help him get to the wall? Traveling with a new born? Will all of them make it?
I don’t entirely buy this storyline, for the reasons you stated. Plus, Gilly has no survival skills and to be honest, Sam’s aren’t all that sharp either.
95) What did you think of the confrontation between the Hound and Arya?
I’ve sort of been dying for these two to meet face-to-face for a while. Partly because he is in Arya’s prayers, but also because the Hound was hanging out with her sister and Sansa is very different from Arya.
96) The men they're with still baffle me. Are they good or bad? They say they're Robert's men. What does that mean and what will they do with Arya?
I think they consider themselves Robert’s men simply because the last orders they were given were by Ned when he was ruling in Robert’s stead. They were supposed to stop the Mountain and (I think) help protect the commoners. So I don’t think of them as good or bad. They want justice for the commoners and they want to protect them. So I guess they’re good? But they aren’t taking sides. Like they don’t support Robb over Joffrey or anything like that.
97) Would you trust the Freys? Weren't one of the boys killed part Frey? I don't think I'd trust them.
Freys all seem like they suck. I don’t trust any of them, ever. They all just seem either sneaky or major wusses.
Yes, one of the boys was a Frey, the other a Lannister, but I believe they were cousins. So even the Frey was part Lannister. It’s not really a spoiler, because I think it was mentioned, but if you’re curious as to who the Frey boy’s mom is, it’s (view spoiler). And the Lannister boy who was killed, his father is (view spoiler).
Responses to Sandy93) Maybe they can make a litter to carry her and the baby?
Isn't it just Sam with her? Because everyone else left, I thought.
94) I hope they are not "Others" now. Doesn't he sacrifice the baby boys to the Others?
Can one become an Other? Or just a wight? Craster did sacrifice them, but I don't know if that's important other than to acknowledge the fact that Craster knew about the Others for years and possibly was appeasing them with sacrifices.
Do the Others eat people? You know what, do we even know what the Others are going to do? Do they have a purpose? Or do they just want to wantonly slaughter people? Is there a reason why they want to get south of the Wall?
Their whole purpose can't be to just kill people and turn them to wights. What would be the point of that? I was assuming they were amassing an army of wights so they could attack and cross the Wall. All we know is that the Others are evil. But ... this is going to sound ridiculous ... what's the end game for them being evil?
97) At this point, I think they have no choice. They need to keep as many allies as they possibly. can.
Especially after beheading Karstark.
@ Laura#92 Craster/Mormont's death
I'm not sure exactly why I expected Mormont to be killed off, but I suspect it has something to do with his "fatherly" treatment of Jon and how he gave Jon his sword. The "kids" can't really grow up and fulfill their destiny until the parents are gone. It's why Ned had to die, and this is why I think Tywin will bite it eventually, and also probably Catelyn (but I hope not!).
#93 - I didn't realize everyone else had gone. I thought they were foraging for food. I was reading way too late last night. :-)
#94 - OK here's where I am not clear. I thought Wights = Others. I really need to pay more attention....
Still going through everything, but I thought Wights were Others too. I just thought they gave them another name.
I don't think they're the same. The Others create wights, and wights can be killed with fire but the Others have to be killed with the obsidian (didn't the one Sam killed melt afterward?). The Others don't seem entirely human. I always think of them as their own species or a really ancient race (I do the same thing with the children of the forest).I guess in LotR terms (if you've read the books or seen the movies), the Others are like Uruk-Hai or orcs and the Children of the Forest are elves.
And yes, this is the nerdiest comparison I've ever made in my life...
I was VERY glad when Craster got Killed. I loathed that character.Craster gave up his sons to the "Others", but we don't know if they ate them, raised them as their own or what.
but (I'm the one who didn't read the first book) in the TV series the very beginning had the others attacking people. and they all looked dead.
I'm not really getting their purpose either.
I just assumed Craster got rid of all the males so he wouldn't have to be questioned, so the male babies were getting sacrificed/eaten by the others.
I can't see any plot where the others are gonna end up "good"/not so bad characters.
I wanted what Arya wanted, for the Hound to die.
Lisa Kay’s Answers to Lisarenee’s Questions for Chapter 32 (Tyrion) - Chapter 35 (Catelyn) 87) I felt so bad for Tyrion when his feelings were displayed about the kind of marriage he wanted with Sansa.
I felt bad for him also. So sad. I wish she’d give him a chance, but he is a Lannister.
88) Guess Jaime isn't going to need that second sword. Notice how Lord Tywin didn't offer it to Tyrion.
Lord Tywin is a pr!ck. You notice how everyone has just stepped out of his way so he can act as king? That was something I hadn’t anticipated, but in hindsight, should have.
89) I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty suspicious of the singer. Does he have an ulterior motive? He and Tyrion's girl seem to know way more than they should. Could they be spies or something worse? He is certainly up for a little blackmail. Remember how she wanted access to the wedding as well?
I’m suspicious also; Shae and the Symon Silver Tongue (who knows who he really is, but this is what Shae calls him) have had plenty of time to get close. They could be spies. I do remember Shae asking to attend, now that you mention it.
90) Now know the messages said nothing about the others. Wonder where the Others are now?
I know. It is so frustrating to see these people fight and bicker and scorch the earth, when a more dangerous enemy threatens them. I don’t know, but I’m sure they’ll come out when it gets cold. Or maybe they are Craster’s sons and their coming after Gilly’s newborn.
91) Does anyone remember Janos Slynt? Is he the one who had a problem with Jon?
I did a search of my notes on A Game of Thrones and I asked a question about him for Questions for Chapter 48 (Jon) - Chapter 51 (Sansa) of that “buddy read”. In the first book, Janos Slynt was Commander of the City Watch; he was present when Lord Stark declared Joffrey had no claim to the throne and Ser Barristan hesitated he called the City Watch. (Page 528, in my edition.) Speaking of Ser Barristan, where is he? Janos Slynt was on the Small Council when Tyrion was Hand; he was gifted with Harrenhal – and for the life of me, I can’t remember why Littlefinger now how it. It was Ser Allister who didn’t like Jon Snow. Also, Rast, who is the one Jon Snow had Ghost jump on and say “Remember, we know where you sleep.”
92) Anyone else shocked by the deaths of Ser Mormont and Craster?
Yes! Both were a surprise. I must say how much I'm glad Craster is.
93) Samwell and Gilly? What do you make of the escape? As a mom of three children my first thought was, "Ouch!" I can't imagine going on a journey after just giving birth. Will she be able to help him get to the wall? Traveling with a new born? Will all of them make it?
Pure insanity. But, Gilly is desperate. I hope they make it. I hope Sam has possession of his dragonglass dagger again. Did he leave it with Ser Mormont?
94) Who are Craster's sons? That sounded questionable.
I’m thinking they are the sons he turned over to the Others – and they became Others too. I’m worried they’ll come after Samwell and Gilly for Gilly’s baby.
95) What did you think of the confrontation between the Hound and Arya?
I thought she was going to kill him. She sure let a lot of anger and hate spew out of her finally, didn’t she.
96) The men they're with still baffle me. Are they good or bad? They say they're Robert's men. What does that mean and what will they do with Arya?
I think Martin has built a world where I get to determine the percentage of goodness in his characters. As a whole, I think this group, as a whole, is about 60% good. I hope Arya remains safe! I don’t think they mean her any harm, but I don’t know how far they’ll go to keep her safe. Nor what their definition of “safe” is.
97) Would you trust the Freys? Weren't one of the boys killed part Frey? I don't think I'd trust them.
I don’t trust the Freys. Yes, one of the murdered boys was related to both the Freys and Lannisters. I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. I absolutely, positively don’t like that King Robb is going to see Old Lord Walder face to face.
@Sandy#89 - "...sounds like Tyrion is having Bronn kill him..."
I think you are right. Surprised me that Tyrion would do this, but he is a hardened man now.
#94 - Oh, Lord! I just had a thought. What if the Others changed them to Others when they were babies or toddlers and now there is this little army of dead baby zombies. I'm sorry, but that is too absurd!
@Laura#89 - Well said. I have the same worries.
#91 - Ah! Tyrion sent him to the wall, that right. Thanks.
#93 - LOL! Sad, but true.
#97 - Ah! GTK. After researching Janos Slynt in my notes and the first two books, I didn't have the energy for this one.
I knew the wights and Others were not the same things, but I was under the impression that the wights are subservient to the Others. Am I wrong?
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
A Feast for Crows (other topics)Outlander (other topics)
A Clash of Kings (other topics)
The Secret Lives of the Four Wives (other topics)
A Storm of Swords (other topics)
