THE Group for Authors! discussion
Publishing and Promoting
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Amazon returns -- we need to take a stand
I agree, and don't like the policy either - not to mention the e-book sharing policy that authors have almost no saw in.
I doubt complaining will help with Amazon. I've dealt with them on several occasions and each time they are stubborn and won't budge. They are the big dog, so they set the tone.
I doubt complaining will help with Amazon. I've dealt with them on several occasions and each time they are stubborn and won't budge. They are the big dog, so they set the tone.
MA and Shawn. Actually, Barnes and Noble has 14 days to return any product. I think by law there must be a return period for any product. The biggest danger from books is not that they buy then return them, but that they pirate them outright. I've not had a book returned yet. Keep in mind, traditional houses take returns for many months after a book is shipped to a bookseller and the return is deducted from future commissions due the author.
Oh, I know about traditional returns! The end of last year 2 major books stores closed and return 100 copies of my first book! I had no control over that - but did it ding my royalties. I knew one store ordered my book since I was supposed to have a signing, but not the number until I got my royalty statement.
M.A.: I ordered a digital copy of a book a few months ago and after struggling with the formatting, I had to return it. The publisher had simply transcribed the book into digital without paying any attention to the tables and charts which as a result were unreadable. So there is a reason other than fraud for being able to return a book and I don't think 7 days is outrageous.
Larry, B&N does not allows returns on digital product, only print books.Peter, do you think you could have seen the formatting issue up front, and also perhaps in the sample pages? I can see returning a book with formatting issues if this were not apparent in the sample pages; and this could be a legitimate reason for which Amazon accepts returns.
But a lot of genre fiction is regarded by readers as disposable: you read it, you pass it on to a friend or give it to charity, or sell it to a used bookstore. Considering you can read a Harlequin Romance in an afternoon, and a full-length mystery or thriller is 2-3 evenings, Amazon is potentially giving consumers the equivalent of library lending without the author benefiting from the library sale.
Amazon tells me they monitor for abuse, but what does that really mean? They say the same thing about piracy but reports from pirated authors is that it falls on deaf ears. And what legal leg would Amazon have to stand on to prevent it? I sincerely doubt they could get away with cancelling an account.
I've only had one return and it appears to have been from someone who accidentally hit the buy button twice; I can totally see a return for that. I've had that happen to me.
So, yes, fraud is not the only valid reason for a return but with sample pages upfront and such I think the time frame should be 24 hours. IMHO.
As an author and publisher, I understand the reluctance to have refunds. But, as a consumer, I would expect ANY product manufacturer or retailer to stand behind their product with an acceptable return policy. Otherwise, why would a customer risk purchasing a possibly inferior product?
M.A. wrote: "Larry, B&N does not allows returns on digital product, only print books.Peter, do you think you could have seen the formatting issue up front, and also perhaps in the sample pages? I can see retu..."
Sorry MA, but the bottom of the Nook Books page shows "easy returns" and when you click on it. This is what comes up: "We will issue a refund to your original form of payment for items returned within 14 days.
"Items must be returned in their original condition; shrink-wrapped products must be unopened.
"Returning Items Bought from Barnes & Noble.com"
I'm not aiming this specifically at you, but why don't people do some research before making totally wrong statements. I researched this before my original answer and again went to it. If anyone still has doubts, here's the URL: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/help/cd...
I would also assume Amazon would check a person's sales history before accepting a return on a ebook. If they person has a history of returning a lot of ebooks, I'd assume it would raise a red flag and they'd deny the request.I can't see Amazon allowing people to return every book they've read - it hurts their profits too.
24 hours would be too short. I've purchased books and not started to read them right away. The one I returned was non-fiction and I'd read a couple of chapters before I hit the first chart. It threw me because it seemed like some pages were missing. After I returned the digital version, I bought the print edition and saw that the chart was poorly set off in the original as well. I recognize the potential for abuse, but I think Amazon has chosen a reasonable length of time in giving the reader 7 days.
Larry: you need to scroll down a bit further on the B&N returns policy page; what you have quoted is for print product:
"Items That Cannot Be Returned
We are unable to accept returns for NOOK Books, magazines, downloadable PDFs for SparkNotes products, gift cards, and shrink-wrapped items that have been opened. Please note: Once purchased, NOOK Books cannot be refunded."
So when researching in future, and before you make totally wrong statements...
Then I stand corrected, but plead mitigation based on B&N's fuzzy verbiage. :-)However, I still think a time-limited return policy is valid. Also keep in mind that with Kindle, the system automatically records how far a reader has progressed through the book. Thus, Amazon might be able to tell if the book is truly unfinished.
In past years, people questioned the unlimited return policy of L.L. Bean, the outdoor store operation out of Freeport, Maine. The company responded that they'd never had a problem with return policy abuse. However, I admit that was more than 20 years ago and some people have, unfortunately, become far less ethical than in the past.
Perhaps another reason for the Amazon policy is that the quality of EBooks has declined as wannabee authors with few skills have flooded the EBook marketplace. I've seen a few books that were absolutely ghastly with little or no plot, background or flow. No depth to characters, etc. There also are reports (one was from Reuters) that Amazon is being hit with junk being passed off as EBooks. As that could be a major threat to the future of the industry, I inquired of Amazon about the accuracy of the report. After nearly a week of stalling, the basically replied with a non-committal comment.
Scam books are a HUGE problem on Amazon. There were a bunch of "Expert Guides" to various TV shows, and all were nothing more than a collection of Internet links. I've stumbled upon pseudo porn collections of what I suspect are photographs stolen off the Internet. There's been pirated copies. All of which the consumer has a valid right to a refund for. Then there are, as you say, the deluge of blatantly unprofessional tripe that passes for indie writing.And all of which dilutes the Kindle brand. But instead of an open return policy I think Amazon would do better to gate-keep upfront: I would rather wait two weeks for my book to make it onto Amazon while they vetted it for fraud and incomprehensibility.
M.A. wrote: "Scam books are a HUGE problem on Amazon. There were a bunch of "Expert Guides" to various TV shows, and all were nothing more than a collection of Internet links. I've stumbled upon pseudo porn col..."M.A., I understand what you're saying about having books vetted, but I suspect that would require huge expenditures of time for staffers and lots of money for Amazon. Don't think the Kindle biz model would work under those circumstances.
I'd heard about the non-book problem, but had no inking of the shape it was taking. From what you're saying it sounds to me like out-and-out fraud.
Trying to look on the positive side of the refund policy, seven days means authors are minimally impacted. It's not like the traditional houses where they accept returns from bookstores for months or years after, then retroactively go after authors' commissions. With only seven days it's unlikely to ever directly impact an author's wallet, as the commissions would be withdrawn so quickly that it would only show up if author is checking sales figures on a daily basis. (Yes, I admit to sometimes being hard pressed to avoid peeking, but I'm learning. Sales can sometimes come in bursts with no rhyme nor reason.)
I'm really troubled by your comments about the depth of the scam book problem. It sounds like one of those dirty little secrets that could hurt all legitimate authors. I wonder if there is any way for authors like us to help battle that sort of thing?
I can understand the feelings on both sides, but is anyone truely having a serious problem with returns? I can't imagine they would be a significant percentage of sales. Am I wrong? What kinds of returns are other people seeing?
The returns I have problems with come from the closing of bookstores and my publisher deducting them from my royalties. That manner of doing business stinks for authors!
One thing I don't like about Amazon is the e-book sharing policy. We make little enough on the sales that unlimited sharing causing problems. I understand the mentality due to paperback book swaps, but the price point and profits are better than e-books.
One thing I don't like about Amazon is the e-book sharing policy. We make little enough on the sales that unlimited sharing causing problems. I understand the mentality due to paperback book swaps, but the price point and profits are better than e-books.
My path as an author is a bit different than most, so I suspect my views on lending might not mesh with everyone else. I wrote under a pseudonym and gave my work for free. Now that I have started selling, I don't mind if it is lent. It brings me one step further away from obscurity. The people that borrow a book and like it become one more person likely to buy my future works. Cory Doctrow gives his work away and still sells a lot. Restricting access to your work isn't the key to more sales. Opening it is. Lending is part of that.
I have to agree with Terry regarding lending. As a new and very obscure writer I'm happy to see that anyone is reading and responding to my work. I've even done giveaways to gain exposure. My feelings may change later in my career but for now, the more readers the better.
As far as returns are concerned, I've only had two so far and they were immediate. I suspect they were of the bought it twice by accident variety mentioned above. I would also refer back to the need of a new writer to rise from the Amazon slush pile. Every sale, whether returned or not, may help with the Amazon search algorithms.
As far as returns are concerned, I've only had two so far and they were immediate. I suspect they were of the bought it twice by accident variety mentioned above. I would also refer back to the need of a new writer to rise from the Amazon slush pile. Every sale, whether returned or not, may help with the Amazon search algorithms.
Shawn wrote: "The returns I have problems with come from the closing of bookstores and my publisher deducting them from my royalties. That manner of doing business stinks for authors!One thing I don't like abo..."
I'm with you Shawn. The EBook swap concept is fraught with piracy dangers as well as cutting into tiny royalties. However, if we pursue that line, we face being attacked by some readers who feel free is their right. I was tossed out of the Amazon Kindle group for even suggesting that piracy occurs.
Terry and Joseph,Everytime you give away a book or allow it to be copied gratis, you undermine the rights of working authors who write to feed their families. If you were a brain surgeon, lawyer, retailer would you give away your work product?
Borders thought free was nifty. They allowed readers to sit in their coffee shop sections with as many books as the readers could carry. For the price of a cup of coffee, they could sit all day and read books. If they found one they truly liked, they could even go online and buy it discounted elsewhere according to one Borders manager. That's emphatically not the way to run a business as Borders learned. Now its doors are closing and the company is out of business.
I see your point and my perspective may change when I can finally say I'm a full-time writer.
However, many industries use giveaways, discounts, etc. in order to boost name/brand recognition. Lawyers do pro-bono work, retailers routinely provide discounts; discounted promotions is an entire industry (coupons, Groupon, LivingSocial, etc).
According to the blurb for your book "Self Promotion for Authors," you worked as a publicist for two decades. Are you saying you never gave anything away to promote your client's products?
However, many industries use giveaways, discounts, etc. in order to boost name/brand recognition. Lawyers do pro-bono work, retailers routinely provide discounts; discounted promotions is an entire industry (coupons, Groupon, LivingSocial, etc).
According to the blurb for your book "Self Promotion for Authors," you worked as a publicist for two decades. Are you saying you never gave anything away to promote your client's products?
Joseph wrote: "I see your point and my perspective may change when I can finally say I'm a full-time writer.However, many industries use giveaways, discounts, etc. in order to boost name/brand recognition. Law..."
Having worked in public relations for many years, I'm quite familiar with premium incentives. It's an industry that basically benefits the incentives vendors. Unless you're crazy for imprinted ballpoint pens and such, why waste the money. I've never seen such incentive boost client sales.
Yes, we never gave PI's away, nor did any other major agency with which I'm familiar. From a publicity standpoint, premium incentives are the bottom of the marketing barrel. They are overpriced and ineffective. They must either be handed out at special events by a salaried staffer or left in huge piles on tables where people will scarf up as many as they can grab and stuff them into goody bags. Once back at their hotels, they often toss most of the scavenged items into trash baskets.
As to your perspective changing when you become a full-time writer, why wait. Start now to think like a full-time professional and you'll be the better for it. If you think as an amateur you'll act like an amateur. If you're a part-time worker at a fast food place, you really don't care about how successful the business is. But get appointed as an assistant manager where you have goals to meet and your mindset changes. Your ultimate goal is to be successful. Start thinking that way.
Larry wrote: "Terry and Joseph,Everytime you give away a book or allow it to be copied gratis, you undermine the rights of working authors who write to feed their families. If you were a brain surgeon, lawyer,..."
Larry, I hear what you're saying, but I don't agree. Consumers consume much more than a few authors output. My promotions have no effect on anyone else's sales but my own.
And as an author, it is my job to grow my own audience. Increase my brand. These are tools to get my work into the hands of prospective readers. Other working authors need to do the same.
Of course, I'm one of those evil self published authors so my business model isn't the same as a traditionally published author. Not saying mine s better, just different. I'll use all the effective tools I can find to build an audience that will recommend my work to others because I'm not focused on the next two months, I'm looking at the next two years and my long term success.
Larry,I agree with your comment that we need to think like professionals. I submit that we are. Books are not pens. Some fraction of the people that take advantage of the limited time giveaway I'm running will read that book. Some of them will like it and buy future books. Others will like it enough to pass the word about me to others as recommendations. That grows our reader base and is thinking professionally.
Respectfully submitted.
Terry wrote: "Larry,I agree with your comment that we need to think like professionals. I submit that we are. Books are not pens. Some fraction of the people that take advantage of the limited time giveaway I'..."
Terry, I was responding to Joseph who said he'd likely change his views when he became a full-time writer.
I agree books are not pens. But low prices or freebees also don't work. Just as Borders that was giving 40 percent discount coupons to coffee drinkers who were already reading books free inside Borders.
I have a mystery novel that I dropped from $3.99 to $0.99 as a summer savings special. Rather than sales rising, they plummeted. As soon as the price went back up, sales restarted. I don't even pretend to have a logical answer for that.
Terry wrote: "And as an author, it is my job to grow my own audience. Increase my brand. These are tools to get my work into the hands of prospective readers. Other working authors need to do the same."
Exactly.
Larry, I am thinking like a professional. In the current stage of my business I'm thinking of market share. I'll worry about maximizing profits later.
To use your fast-food analogy: We were eating in one place, minding out own business, when the manager plopped down free handspun milkshakes - new menu item. We don't normally buy such things but the kids now ask to go there to get the (expensive) handspun milkshakes. Good thing for the store that the manager cared so little for the success of his business that he gave away those four shakes!
My sales were all but non-existent; 14 copies in May. I held a giveaway for 100 review copies in the beginning of June. Until that point I wanted nothing to do with giving anything away. They were mine, mine, all mine, and if you wanted one you had to pony up.
Of the 100 review copies, 70 were claimed and reviews have trickled in. Since then, I've sold 155 copies. Still nothing to concern Stephen King but a step forward nonetheless.
ROI is difficult to calculate for this promotion because, as far as I'm concerned, it's not likely that I would have actually sold any of those 70 I gave away; no one had ever heard of me. To paraphrase Terry, I have to think long-term.
Exactly.
Larry, I am thinking like a professional. In the current stage of my business I'm thinking of market share. I'll worry about maximizing profits later.
To use your fast-food analogy: We were eating in one place, minding out own business, when the manager plopped down free handspun milkshakes - new menu item. We don't normally buy such things but the kids now ask to go there to get the (expensive) handspun milkshakes. Good thing for the store that the manager cared so little for the success of his business that he gave away those four shakes!
My sales were all but non-existent; 14 copies in May. I held a giveaway for 100 review copies in the beginning of June. Until that point I wanted nothing to do with giving anything away. They were mine, mine, all mine, and if you wanted one you had to pony up.
Of the 100 review copies, 70 were claimed and reviews have trickled in. Since then, I've sold 155 copies. Still nothing to concern Stephen King but a step forward nonetheless.
ROI is difficult to calculate for this promotion because, as far as I'm concerned, it's not likely that I would have actually sold any of those 70 I gave away; no one had ever heard of me. To paraphrase Terry, I have to think long-term.
Joseph wrote: "Terry wrote: "And as an author, it is my job to grow my own audience. Increase my brand. These are tools to get my work into the hands of prospective readers. Other working authors need to do the s..."Market share, maximizing profits and branding all go hand in hand. You both obviously are too experienced to need advice from others.
Larry said:I agree books are not pens. But low prices or freebees also don't work.
It depends on what you want them to accomplish. If the goal is increasing your reader base and getting your work in front of new people, it does work. Does it immediately drive sales? Perhaps, depending on how many other works you have. Giveaways in books may take a while to have an effect, but I believe they do.
Larry said:
I have a mystery novel that I dropped from $3.99 to $0.99 as a summer savings special. Rather than sales rising, they plummeted. As soon as the price went back up, sales restarted. I don't even pretend to have a logical answer for that.
I've also been hearing sales are slow for a lot of people in July. Might not be related.
There is definitely perceived value. Dropping the price does not always increase sales. When people pay more for something, they do feel it has more value than something that is free or bargain basement price.
It also works differently for different authors and no one can really explain why. Some few drop price and take off, but they are the minority. Outliers.
I priced my book (written as Lynn Mixon) at $3.99 and sales have been better than an unknown has a right to expect. It's been out five days and even with giving away copies for the rest of this month, I've sold more than one a day. I intend to drop the price to .99 cents for a limited time, too. The goal is to get some reviews and to get awareness out and then I go back to 3.99.
Other people have used a similar process with some success, so I'm being open minded. Different things will work better for others. Only by trying can we see what is effective for ourselves.
Terry wrote: "Larry said:I agree books are not pens. But low prices or freebees also don't work.
It depends on what you want them to accomplish. If the goal is increasing your reader base and getting your wor..."
Go for it. It's a fickle business as you point out. Even after 45 years I don't pretend to have solid answers. Like a professional gambler, I play the percentages and hope for the best.
Larry, I'm not as experienced as many others and don't pretend to be. That said, the market is changing in ways that are hard to predict for any of us. I listen to all the advice and see what I think makes sense for me. I can disagree with you without dismissing you. I can also agree with you on some things. That's the nature of debate. There's no need for us to descend into personal stuff. I'm always more than willing to debate the merits of just about any aspect of writing and publishing. If something doesn't work for me, I'll reevaluate. I wish you the greatest success with your methods.
Larry,
I hope I didn't sound dismissive, I can get carried away sometimes -- that whole fiction writer thing. I certainly wouldn't put my 3 months experience against your 45 years (seriously).
While the market is changing, I suspect that some of the tried and true methods will still work best, but there will be other methods that may work equally well or better. Konrath and others have shown that giving away books helps sales. Of course it's better to have a published catalog > 1, but I have to work with what I've got.
As you said, play the percentages and hope for the best.
I hope I didn't sound dismissive, I can get carried away sometimes -- that whole fiction writer thing. I certainly wouldn't put my 3 months experience against your 45 years (seriously).
While the market is changing, I suspect that some of the tried and true methods will still work best, but there will be other methods that may work equally well or better. Konrath and others have shown that giving away books helps sales. Of course it's better to have a published catalog > 1, but I have to work with what I've got.
As you said, play the percentages and hope for the best.
Here's some sales figures to chew on, guys.
According to the U.S. Census - which also does sales figure, etc. - 1 million books were published in 2010. Between 200,000 and 300,000 were traditional - the rest self. The average author can only expect to sell 100 copies in a year!
The first book in my YA fantasy series was traditionally published and released Jan. 2010 and by August sold well above the average and placed me in the top 20% of sales. Surprising, my publisher passed on the rest, so I'm now indie. Since then, I've slowed down to mostly events where I can sell a good amount. Bookstores closing is a major problem for my first book.
As for giving away books - yes, I do that as promotion, to schools and donations, but that's not the issue. The issue is when one of my books sells, the lending aspect 'robs' me of potential profits, especially e-books with a small margin.
According to the U.S. Census - which also does sales figure, etc. - 1 million books were published in 2010. Between 200,000 and 300,000 were traditional - the rest self. The average author can only expect to sell 100 copies in a year!
The first book in my YA fantasy series was traditionally published and released Jan. 2010 and by August sold well above the average and placed me in the top 20% of sales. Surprising, my publisher passed on the rest, so I'm now indie. Since then, I've slowed down to mostly events where I can sell a good amount. Bookstores closing is a major problem for my first book.
As for giving away books - yes, I do that as promotion, to schools and donations, but that's not the issue. The issue is when one of my books sells, the lending aspect 'robs' me of potential profits, especially e-books with a small margin.
Thanks for the figures, Shawn. I've heard the 100 book number before. I'm not sure it's accurate for the digital market of today, though. Things have changed so much in less than a year. I don't sell paper, at least yet, and if my first weeks sales carry over (never certain) I'll hit 100 sales in a couple of months with only one book out and very little word of mouth. Makes me wonder what the census might say in the future.
Thanks again for the input!
Yes, lending can 'rob' you of potential profits. So can library copies and used book store copies of your trad-published book. However, I agree with many others that it is free advertising (ignoring the small margin on books that may have sold anyway).
I was at the beach and read a book that had been left by the previous renter. I hadn't read the author before but he was there, I was there, and I needed something to read. I may have read everything he's written now. Some copies came from the library and some from used bookstores, but several were retail purchases. I'll buy and read "Shadows in Flight" the moment it's available in November.
Oh, and I recommended the writer to a friend of mine who has also devoured the author's catalog through various channels.
That's one book at the beach and several from libraries and used bookstores, yielding I don't know how many new retail sales.
That's the industry whether we like it or not.
I was at the beach and read a book that had been left by the previous renter. I hadn't read the author before but he was there, I was there, and I needed something to read. I may have read everything he's written now. Some copies came from the library and some from used bookstores, but several were retail purchases. I'll buy and read "Shadows in Flight" the moment it's available in November.
Oh, and I recommended the writer to a friend of mine who has also devoured the author's catalog through various channels.
That's one book at the beach and several from libraries and used bookstores, yielding I don't know how many new retail sales.
That's the industry whether we like it or not.
The bottom line is that I'm thankful for every reader and I don't care how they got my book.
Joseph wrote: "The bottom line is that I'm thankful for every reader and I don't care how they got my book."That's a great story and a good example. Thanks for sharing.
Joseph, I realize that once a person buys a paperback I have no say in what they do with it. And this is where libraries and used bookstores come it. Or leaving a copy in some rental or hotel room.
But when it comes to e-books, the digital aspect is easier to breech, copy and or alter. This is where authors need protection. However, I have no choice in the 'lending' aspect.
But when it comes to e-books, the digital aspect is easier to breech, copy and or alter. This is where authors need protection. However, I have no choice in the 'lending' aspect.
Shawn, forget it. Their minds are made up and no confusing them with the facts and data. They don't care about professional writers trying to make a living. Did you see Joe Kornrath's blog? Sorta typifies this thinking. "The world wide web has spawned an unpleasant epidemic of idiots who are quick to criticize, insult, dismiss, and reject without any accountability. These folks really believe their nearsighted and downright idiotic opinions are not only correct, but need to be voiced in public."Shawn, Whatever happened to professionals?
Good question, Larry. Unfortunately, the web has spawned many unpleasant things. All we can do is navigate and survive to the best of our ability. Hopefully with our dignity and sanity intact. :)
...and Konrath supports lending.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/06...
He even paid $49 to make his book available on BookRooster.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/06...
He even paid $49 to make his book available on BookRooster.
Larry,Since you quoted something from Joe Konrath's blog, I'll post the link here so other readers can get the context of what you've quoted.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/07...
I'm sorry you feel the need to attack me because I disagree with you, but that's your right on the Internet. I could point out a number of trends that have changed things in just the last few years, and how your "facts" and "data" have been overtaken by the changing world, but that would only inflame things further.
Instead, I'll apologize for offending your sensibilities and presenting an alternate view. You do whatever works for you. Feel free to call me unprofessional, if you must. Or anything else. I won't respond in kind.
Best of luck in your endevors.
Joseph wrote: "...and Konrath supports lending.http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/06...
He even paid $49 to make his book available on BookRooster."
If I were doing as well as Joe, I might also support it.
When you told Shawn she was wrong about the figures I took offense as I keep up on such data and know she's also quite savvy. Here's a tidbit from my book Self-Promotion for Authors: "...Chris Anderson, editor-in-chief of Wired wrote in Publishers’ Weekly: “Here's the reality of the book industry: in 2004, 950,000 titles out of the 1.2 million tracked by Nielsen Bookscan sold fewer than 99 copies.
“Another 200,000 sold fewer than 1,000 copies. Only 25,000 sold more than 5,000 copies. The average book in America sells about 500 copies. Those blockbusters are an anomaly: only 10 books sold more than a million copies last year, and fewer than 500 sold more than 100,000,” he said.
If you achieve the level Anderson cites as “average” then you’ll sell 500 books. To do so, you’ll have to personally contact 5,000 to 10,000 people, one-on-one, to make those 500 sales. That’s 14 to 28 prospects per day, each and every day, for an entire year. No days off, no vacations, just sell, sell, sell."
The numbers haven't changed significantly, but there has been a shift to far more EBooks. As you can see, Shawn was on target. Nothing has really changed except the type of book being sold.
In a lot of people's minds "free" equates with junk. There's even an old saying to the effect that you get what you pay for.
Terry. If you're going to be a writer support efforts of authors to make a living. Be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. I wasn't attacking you specifically, we've never even met. I was brindling at the all too common attitudes that writing is easy, writers don't deserve to make so much money (hearty laughter from this corner) and book lending is allowable (it's NOT under U.S. Copyright law.)
Wow, even Bookscan says I sold more than the average in 8 months! Cool. And I can attest to NOT having many days off. Which is why I told my husband to take me on vacation after 18 months of non-stop work. Just got back.
Oh, Larry, that is a point you should give to Amazon about copyright law!
Oh, Larry, that is a point you should give to Amazon about copyright law!
Linda wrote: "Joseph wrote: "Yes, lending can 'rob' you of potential profits. So can library copies and used book store copies of your trad-published book. However, I agree with many others that it is free adv..."Linda, I've had zero problems with returns. My first exposure was in the children's section of the public library in our town. Loved it and spent huge amounts of time in libraries as a kid (we moved several times).
I support lending. Since the book is removed from the lender's device for the period it is loaned, to me that's no different than loaning a print book. And the royalty on an ebook can be as high or higher than a print book, depending on price and sales channel.I would like the industry to go further and allow resale of digital books, to see digital used bookstores. As long as DRM is used and respected (hah!), the ability to resell would improve upon the acceptance of the digital format and counter some of the anti-DRM rhetoric out there.
Lynn wrote: "I can understand the feelings on both sides, but is anyone truely having a serious problem with returns? I can't imagine they would be a significant percentage of sales. Am I wrong? What kinds of..."
The trouble with "returns" of print books is that they don't return the book. They strip off the covers and return those as "proof" and sell the rest of the book to pulp mills (paper recycling). Or, the shop assistants keep them.
Those are perfectly good books that can never be sold because they are destroyed. Moreover, bookstores not only "return" books after a shelf life of as little as two months, they also "return" books if moving premises rather than go to the trouble of shipping the old books to the new store location.
It is an utterly incomprehensible business model!
MA,If you wish to see what would happen if the resale of digital books were legal, go to EBay and look at the (illegal) auctions of DVDs containing 11,000 (or 16,000; or 200,000 or any numerical permutation) romance --or Vampire, or fantasy-- ebooks for Kindle/ipad/Nook/Mobile.
When you find an auction, go to the seller's page, then click to see all Feedback as a Seller, then check out how many illegal copies this person has sold.
One eBay Seller can sell 400 copies of 16,000 digital books, and those who buy from him do so in the belief that the books are in the public domain.
They go on to repackage the 16,000 romance novels and resell them, on eBay and on all the other auction sites.
Even collections of 2010 bestsellers!
This is happening now, on a massive scale, yet the resale of digital books is illegal. If it were legal, the royalty model would not work at all.
Rowena,you were so right! I went to one site that had 250 comic books on sale and a disclaimer that they were all in the public domain. Since some dealt with World War II topics. I sent off a letter to the seller to the effect: "U.S. copyright law provides protection for 95 years. Unless you also are providing releases for the comic books you're including on the discs, you're selling pirated merchandise. Please advise within three business days or we will notify federal authorities."
Perhaps that's what all of us need to do, become pirate police.
Shawn wrote: "Wow, even Bookscan says I sold more than the average in 8 months! Cool. And I can attest to NOT having many days off. Which is why I told my husband to take me on vacation after 18 months of non-s..."Shawn, Amazon's one-loan-per-sale policy is only if the author consents. There is an exception under copyright law for prior permission from the copyright holder. Hope you had a great vacation. Best,
Rowena wrote: "MA,If you wish to see what would happen if the resale of digital books were legal, go to EBay and look at the (illegal) auctions of DVDs containing 11,000 (or 16,000; or 200,000 or any numerical p..."
Rowena: this is not the legal resale of a book. Piracy is a different issue from legal resale. Once you own something - be it a car, a house, a book, a sweater -- you have the right to resell it. Even software, as long as you remove the program from your computer and sell the original disks, is legal to resell. What's happening on eBay is theft, not resale.
Legal resale of ebooks would involve using DRM to control the sale. For example, just as DRM is used to control book lending, it can be used to remove a title off a user's device and sell it forward to another consumer. Perfectly legit and in keeping with existing laws. It might even help curb piracy since an ebook that sells for $3.99 might be sold on for $2.00, making it even cheaper for the consumer, just as used bookstores do for consumers of print books.
While obviously Amazon has to accept returns of fraudulent books, they shouldn't be accepting returns for anything else. And consumers can't say they bought the book and were mislead as to the contents because they get to download sample pages.
This is an unfair policy and I think we authors need to complain to Amazon about this. If they get enough complaints maybe they'll reconsider their policy.