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Writing style - tips to share

I tried it and it didn..."
I'm with you, Splitter. I need to have an idea where I'm going, but for me it's much easier to have the story flow A - Z than chop and change as the mood strikes. If I have a sudden idea for a later part, I'll note it, but otherwise I find it easier to stay in sequence.
You can always go back later and change things about that don't fit.
Splitter, you hit one of my pet peeves in your post. There are so many authors who "lamely try to show off their vocabulary" and ruin the feel of a good story by making the story stuffy. Some books lead to more intricate vocabulary, but if an author is just needing to think of another adjective to use instead of the same ones all the time, a thesaurus is a wonderful tool, but not a passport to confuse the reader.
I love learning new words, and I have a pocket dictionary that I keep in my nightstand to use when I read, and my computer and e-readers have dictionaries built into them so I have the ability to look up the random word that I am not familiar with. But when we have a story about a 15-year-old girl falling in love for the first time, the narrator does more harm than good when the text breaks out into prose that of which would rival an English lesson in a 1854 classroom.
:)
I love learning new words, and I have a pocket dictionary that I keep in my nightstand to use when I read, and my computer and e-readers have dictionaries built into them so I have the ability to look up the random word that I am not familiar with. But when we have a story about a 15-year-old girl falling in love for the first time, the narrator does more harm than good when the text breaks out into prose that of which would rival an English lesson in a 1854 classroom.
:)

As for the vocabulary thing I am fortunate in that my main character got messed up by an English teacher who insisted her students use "uncommon" words. So now she uses long, complicated words a lot. She doesn't mean to do it, most of the time. Much like the person who invented her.

I suggested my sister read all the Steven Donaldson Tomas Covenant Chronicles and half way through the last book (of 9!) she stalked in, waved it under my nose and exclaimed "He needs to learn his colours! Red green and blue are fine! I don't even know what viridian and incarnadine are!"
Then she stalked back out and finished it. But it was true - and you can kind of guess from context that viridian is maybe green and incarnadine is probably red because etymologically speaking it looks like it means "make something the colour of meat" (carne) but honestly, red - or scarlet or crimson - would probably have done the job better....
;oS
JAC

I go back and read what I wrote yesterday. The first benefit I have found is that reading the story gets me back into the right ..."
Yes, I'm always amazed at those little mistakes you find the next day. And yes, finding that same headspace is so important. Reviewing the next day is a must! I read two consecutive drafts of a short film script recently where there seemed to be no re-editing before the writer asked for feedback. The same mistakes were in both drafts (heaps of them), and the latter draft lost the plot somewhere in the re-writing.

I always start my writing by reading what I wrote last, out loud. Automatically you rephrase for..."
Sarah, I haven't read your blog at time of writing but I thank you for what you've pointed out. It was another published author who put me on to the three month rule in a workshop. I've found it helpful also in rediscovering what works (parts that I read so many times that I became numb to them).
At the moment I'm travelling for a couple of months, so the first draft of my second novel is in the drawer at home. Already I've revised part of the plot for the next draft and, as it's written in first person from four pov's, I will be working on making them each sound more distinct. I'm going to try a method another author friend of mine does by dressing as the character while I spend a day only re-writing their words.
Part of me wanted to start the process straight away but I know I'll be thankful for my distance from the work. Plus, it's my last day in Argentina before revisiting Europe. Goodreads and Facebook are the only places I'm typing anything for a while.

CL (got you confused with CS Splitter for a second there and didn't see how you could say THIS and also not understand how people write out of sequence), two things.
First, I definitely have a similar style as yours but I'm trying hard to change it. Typically, I start at the ending--I always begin with the end in mind *grin* quoting Covey, sorry--and then skip around, writing scenes here and there and by the type I "feel" it's half a book, I jot down the story arc so I can "see" the shape of the book's plot and THEN, lastly, I write an open that I feel will "balance" my ending. I hate writing openers because I'm so picky about them but I particularly like a book's opener to have some connection to its closing. When I pick up a book in a bookstore, first thing I do is read the jacket then the last page or so and THEN I read the opener. That's how I decide if I'm interested. And that's how I write.
Second thing, I took a quick look at your profile and skimmed the beginning of your blog and I'd like to offer you some advice if you don't mind. You do NOT have to take it!! My advice is free and you can take it or not, your choice. It's this: promote yourself more to the Christian fiction market than the mystery one and definitely stay away from the thriller market completely. I don't know if you realize just HOW religious you sound but you do, definitely, have a flavor to your tone that will very much appeal to the Christian fiction market--and will flatly turn off the mainstream mystery/thriller readers.
I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who is Jewish and sharply feels the disparity between us whenever a Christian speaks "loudly" in their faith's language just to have "a regular conversation" and yet has written they want to reach a wider audience. I've written a Jewish Inspirational fiction that actually seems to REALLY appeal to strong Christians who want inspirational / faith walk stories to read. There's a huge UNMET NEED in the market out there for inspirational fiction--of any kind.
I'm also someone who writes thrillers (SciFi Technothrillers, and Romantic Suspense--but EDGE more than anything else). I know that market, having researched it deeply. They don't want to religiousspeak. At all. Not unless it's going to be setting up "The Church" (meaning "High Church" culture) for calamity. Mystery/thriller readers like to see "The" Church "get it" but otherwise, they really don't want religion getting between them and their thrills. Even then, it's only because of those Dan Brown novels that they got into it at all--and notice that the albino self-flaggellator character became something of an icon for those movies...blood and gore. That's what thriller readers want, not blood in a "salvation" way.
I hope neither you nor any other strong Christian here takes offense at what I'm saying. It's really hard to talk about religion in writing, in emails on a bulletin board or out of context. It's especially hard for an "outsider" to make a comment on "insider" remarks and not offend the "insiders," so I apologize if my wording came off sharply.
It's a divide that is incredibly delicate to balance here in the US. We are very much a Christian country and yet like to pretend we are equal-minded towards all people. We're not, definitely, but it hurts to hear, I know. I've spent a lot of time with some seriously faithful Christians and we've all struggled with coming to grips with this reality -- and with trying to figure out how true Christians can bridge that gap that our country's social and cultural interests have set up (not to mention our economics dividing the country further! WWJD? Throw the money changers out--of DC *haha*)
-sry

Amy, I am soooo totally with you and for two reasons. I'm in a real one-two punchy mood today, aren't I? :)
1. The reasons you put out there. Fancy-schmancy vocabulary that a reader needs to look up in the dictionary actually makes the reader put the book down (in order to go get the dictionary) and at the very least, alienates the reader, distances them from the story. It does nothing to draw them in and engage them.
Robert A. Heinlein, who wrote science fiction and a little fantasy--and won more awards for it than anyone in the industry, still holding the record today!--once put it beautifully.
Never use a fifty dollar word when a nickel word will do!
2. Unless we're talking about a character who's an intellectual snob and snooty, condescending, generally UNlikeable as a character, all that complicated vocabulary is going to totally ruin the authenticity of the dialog.
REAL people just don't talk that way, sorry. Real people often do not finish sentences, rarely or never use grammatically correct sentence structure, occasionally salt their statements with "Big Words" but really don't just TALK (as in not a prepared speech or presentation) with words requiring a pocket dictionary.
To me, it's a sign of an author who does not actually have a firm grasp on the English language as a tool for storytelling when I see an over-abundance of multi-syllabic words or scintillating vocabulary.
^_^ Sorry, but "scintillating" was one of my favorite words off the vocabulary list I had to memorize when I was 16. It means to sparkle and it was one of those rare times I just saw the meaning of the word when I read it. Scintillation is a word that does sparkle. For me. Geesh, I'm such a wordie geek! Like a foodie but with words.
-sry

Me too! It helps find those awkward sentences.

I also do this. My husband is often my guinea pig when I need a second person, especially a taller person. Sometimes you just need to make sure the action is feasible. More often than not though, I'm working out gestures.
There's a joke in here regarding the fact that I write steamy romance, but it's going to go unsaid... : )

Sarah, I'm not sure I altogether agree with you. Perhaps it depends on the age or times. As a lad I was an avid reader of anything I could get my hands on -- usually by old-established authors. In fact, I'm sure I learned most of what I know about grammar, spelling rules and the correct use of words that way, not in school.
To me, it's not a case of using a "nickel" word over a "fifty-dollar" one, but using the right word to convey your meaning. Our language has so many possible shades of meaning that often nickel words just won't do.
And unless it's in conversation and character, I don't believe a writer should stoop to using gutter words.
Call me old-fashioned.

I read one once - and I can't remember exactly so this is in the style of - but there were about 4 words I wasn't sure of, all in the same sentence, and it absolutely stumped me. And I have a reasonable vocab, so was doubly cross! Something like
"The ambergris plummeted through the nebulous mass, coruscating scintillas creating a pulchritudinous miasma in chiaroscuro..."
I spent ten minutes wondering if I could be bothered to get a dictionary and finally came to the conclusion than an ambergris was some kind of flying beastie. I was very confused for the next few chapters, till I worked out that that wasn't exactly right... But then, as you say, that wasn't the right combination of words.
My favourite one of those was when I was about 9 and reading the Willard Price "Adventure" books. I'd read the one in New Guinea where they met that big horse-sized lizard, that they called the Komono dragon; then I moved onto Volcano Adventure where they go to Japan and Roger, the younger one, "got out of the bath and slipped on a komono".
I had a few issues visualising this because the Komono dragon was so big that unless the bath was very high he should have seen it, and un;less it was a little baby one I didn't see how he could have slipped on it - you can't slip on something the size of a carthorse! So much baffled, I went to ask my sister...
She snorted with laughter and pointed out that the dragon was a Komodo dragon (which I'd mis-remembered) and what Roger had slipped on was a Kimono, or Japanese robe (which I'd misread)!
Still makes me laugh to think of Roger getting out of the bath and slipping on a Komodo though - suspect the day would go abruptly downhill at that point!!
JAC

Wow, what a sentence! I agree with you too. Big or unusual words have their place, but they shouldn't be over-used to show how clever the author is.

Wow, what a sentence! I agree with you too. Big or unusual words have their place, but they shouldn't be over-used to show how clever the author is. Had to laugh at the idea of the hero slipping on a huge lizard.

Phil, you misquoted (attributed Amy's remarks to me) but this is precisely the point *I* was making. The over-use of big words intended to simply impress the readers with the author's big....whatever. Definitely, I seem to sense a compensation issue going on whenever I see an author over-using complicated vocabulary when everyday language would do just fine. Scintillating notwithstanding *grin*

Phil, you misquoted (attributed A..."
Sorry, Sarah. Blame it on the computer.
I think we're ad idem on the general thrust of your remarks anyhow. Big words have their place, but only in the context of the story, and definitely not as quoted by J.A. I suppose the point is, the author should never try to show off. We're not selling big words, we're telling a story that hopefully others can understand.
Or, to put it another way, an author should never get in the way of a good story.

Hear, hear!
I'd also add that many writers feel it's necessary or appropriate to infuse dialog with big, fancy words as a method of "showing" how smart the character is. It not only doesn't "show" anything of the sort, but it makes the dialog sound unnatural and hard to read.
I know you agree on that point also, Phil. I wasn't directing this remark so much as restating it generally since I've noticed others commenting on characterization through vocabulary. I think they're confusing "diction" with vocabulary, and diction should extend to the expositive voice, as well, in my opinion.
That is to say, expositive or narrative passages should be written in a given point of view character's "voice." By corrollary, the diction of the expositive should, IMO again, just my opinion, change for each POV character.
Of course, whether or not to use multiple POV is another discussion entirely, one which has already been brought up.
Regarding all of these "shouldisms" on "style," I don't think there's a right or wrong way and anyone reading this should *grin* keep in mind that each author has to find their own voice. You'll have your own style once you do. Do what works for YOU.
I love a good story with a few words in it that I don't know. That is one of the joys of reading, to expand your vocabulary along with everything else you get from a good story. But having to break up the fun constantly by having to dig up the dictionary is....well...annoying! LOL

I write like CL. I usually start at the beginning but not necessarily. I write the events that need to be written - usually, but not always starting at the end, a kiss an action scene... Eventually I'll have written enough scenes for them to hang them together. The plot develops as I go and the charcters change and grow and make their own decisions.
This is probably a slightly mad way to write and not a style I recommend for the stay at home parent because child care is the equivilent of stirring your brain with a huge wooden spoon and that doesn't lend itself to a style of writing which involves immersing yourself in the world you've created.
Interestingly, though I find my subconscious works on it whatever, I just have fewer opportunities to write it down. I usually get stuck two thirds of the way into any book and after a couple of months writing short stories, letters or just being a slightly more attentive parent, it resolves itself.
Again as someone else said, the best way to write is the way that suits you... once you've worked out what that is.
I heard an interesting programme today about how people with alzeheimers coming on begin to write with a less wide vocabulary and also that their characters speak with more ums and ahs. I sudder to think what they'd make of mine at the moment. My brain is porridge.
Cheers
MTM
Few Are Chosen
Warning: contains car chases, futuristic technology and sarcasm

The best way for me is to try to be as clear as possible. For me, clear = natural. As a reader I find artificial and contrived voices to be jarring and annoying.

The best way for me is to try to be as clear as possible. For me, clear = natural."
Spot on Frank, I have quite a journalistic style in some respects; although, I also have a love of the texture and feel of words, together which I have to rein in!
And yes... it's very intriguing to see how others do it. If I wrote full time, it would still take me a year to come up with the plot for a book because that's how long my subconscious takes to do it.
Cheers
MTM
Few Are Chosen
Warning: contains car chases, futuristic technology and sarcasm

Sarah, I just found some time in my travels to read that blog post and I thank you for it. Most imformative. That's all I'll say at this point as I'm typing on a French keyboard so the letters are in the wrong place and it's so annoying.

I've got a bunchaton of blog posts on writing and editing and such, though so THAT might be mine to accept thanks for :) You're welcome.
I hate typing on one languge while thinking in another. I've done that for as many as 3 different languages. Amazing how quickly I lose a language again! (use it or lose it eh?) At the moment, I can only speak one: American. I know, I'm so boring.

I was always the type of writer who had so many ideas that I just could not stay focused. I had about 30 different stories in the works. I finally put them all into folders and now I just pull one out at a time and work on it till the end. I get so much more work done that way.
I do allow myself one free writing say a week where I can work on any story I want. When I am done for the day, I put what I worked on into its folder.
May I ask for those of you that make an outline, how detailed is it?
I am curious about how others write and have loved this thread so far. I am a first time writer and about 65 thousand words into my first novel, looks like it will be done around 80k. (Before rewrites) I didn't know anyone else who had written, I didn't belong to any groups, I just signed in to here a few days ago, so I pretty much was winging it as I went along. This was my brilliant, read sarcasm, thought on writing. First I looked up the approximate number of words that a publisher wanted from a first time writer. I found 80k as the low end. So I made an outline with 20 chapters, each with four points or events, both big and small. Then I said to myself, great, now all I have to do is write 80 one thousand word short stories and that is how I went at it. It didn't seem so intimidating thinking of it that way. My next one I am going to work at having much more detailed. If it goes the same way, it won't matter because a quarter of the way through you are revising it.
Also I like big words when they fit. I was looking in a thesaurus for dark or murky. Came across caliginous and it fit for me. Has that old time creepy feel to it. I loved it. Having said that, I only used it once and find to many long words usually breaks the flow for me and takes me out of the reading zone when I have to wonder what that word means.
I am curious about how others write and have loved this thread so far. I am a first time writer and about 65 thousand words into my first novel, looks like it will be done around 80k. (Before rewrites) I didn't know anyone else who had written, I didn't belong to any groups, I just signed in to here a few days ago, so I pretty much was winging it as I went along. This was my brilliant, read sarcasm, thought on writing. First I looked up the approximate number of words that a publisher wanted from a first time writer. I found 80k as the low end. So I made an outline with 20 chapters, each with four points or events, both big and small. Then I said to myself, great, now all I have to do is write 80 one thousand word short stories and that is how I went at it. It didn't seem so intimidating thinking of it that way. My next one I am going to work at having much more detailed. If it goes the same way, it won't matter because a quarter of the way through you are revising it.
Also I like big words when they fit. I was looking in a thesaurus for dark or murky. Came across caliginous and it fit for me. Has that old time creepy feel to it. I loved it. Having said that, I only used it once and find to many long words usually breaks the flow for me and takes me out of the reading zone when I have to wonder what that word means.

I am curious about how others write and have loved this thread so far. I am a first time writer and about 65 thousand words i..."
I used my first outline for a trilogy I am working on. My outline is not very detailed. I just needed enough of one so I could see what goes in each book. I think the trick for an outline is just that it has to work for you. I don't think it is helpful unless it makes sense to you, then it also does not need to make sense to anyone else.

I'm about 200k words into my series (much more written than currently published, heheheh) and have just sat down the other day to work out how all the next bit fits together because there are so many plot strands that it's very complex and I needed to sort out the order in which things happened.
However, that is further complicated by the fact that as of books 1&2, things are happening in 2 places simultaneously and it's all going to keep me on my toes somewhat till everyone meets up a bit further on. Fortunately I have an excel sheet with everyone's names on columns and relative dates in the rows so that I can synchronise the important stuff together...
Anything inbetween the important stuff probably doesn't matter too much unless there's a causal relationship in there somewhere, ie betty can't talk to jill until susan has told her a secret (made up example I hasten to add). But there are some days when I have to draw diagrams for the stuff going forward...
Lucky readers! By the time they get round to reading it, all the confusion has been settled (and if not, my editor probably cut it all out, ha!)
JAC

I agree, JA. I find that what works best for me is merely to have an idea of the beginning, and the end I'm aiming for, and just let it flow with minimal guidance in the middle. The end result often doesn't have much similarity to what I first envisaged, but it's usually better.
But once it's done, self-editing is the most important. It's amazing how many things come to mind to improve the story when you're re-reading the completed work, apart from just correcting typos or missed plot lines.

Outlines are great to get me going. Half way through, I change the rest of it. Close to the end, I change the end. Maybe not a total 180, but a significant change.
The changes are good. Each has been better than the original story.
For the record, the female lead in my first book has one really big "different" trait. That never happened until the last rewrite of that book but I think it was a really good choice. It really comes into play for the rest of the series. But she wasn't originally written that way.
Anyway, outlines are great. Maybe even essential. I have stuck closer to this outline than the previous but it has still changed.
My thought is that an outline should not stop a writer from making the story better if the opportunity pops up.
Splitter
I think Phil makes a great point as well, going back through and rereading can sometimes get you to look at it again. You may notice where a good teaser can be thrown in now that you have the ending in place...or you could find another place to place a red herring...
I think outlines are great for helping you remember the overall layout of the land - like a map - but also like a map, you can't see the real detail until you really get on the road. :)
I think outlines are great for helping you remember the overall layout of the land - like a map - but also like a map, you can't see the real detail until you really get on the road. :)

Just something I wanted to contribute...

You're absolutely right, Sara. There's another benefit, too. Most of us, when we read, tend to skim because it's faster. It's easy, not matter how often you read it to yourself, to miss errors in punctuation, spelling, or grammar. Because reading aloud is slower and you tend to look at each word, you often pick up things you've missed before.

Cheers
MTM

JAC

i do this a lot and it really does work!
That's a great idea. I tried recording myself reading my book out loud and then listening back to it, and it did help, but I just found it so cringe-worthy listening to myself.




Cheers
MTM
Few Are Chosen
Warning: contains car chases, futuristic technology and sarcasm
Unlucky Dip Prequel to Few Are Chosen
FREE on Amazon.co.uk

MTM wrote: "I think I sound as if I've been breathing in helium, however other people have told me it sounds sexy. Mmm. Go figure.
Cheers
MTM
Few Are Chosen
Warning: contains car chases, futur..."
Everyone loves the helium inspired tones. It takes us all back to our childhood, and who doesnt want to be pulled back there? The pimples and bad dates and tripping over your own feet...on second thought, I dont like that at all, MTM....LOL
Cheers
MTM
Few Are Chosen
Warning: contains car chases, futur..."
Everyone loves the helium inspired tones. It takes us all back to our childhood, and who doesnt want to be pulled back there? The pimples and bad dates and tripping over your own feet...on second thought, I dont like that at all, MTM....LOL


Ah! It's Sara, again!
Hey lady!
I totally agree with you! (again)
When I used to be a DJ I would NEVER listen to play backs of my show cause it just sounded funny to me.
As for audio, never tried em and probably never will as I tend to be a speed reader and like to do thinks on my own terms.
Not that I am a control freak or anything...lol

I feel the exact same way!

Hey, back at ya, Jenn!
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I go back and read what I wrote yesterday. The first benefit I have found is that reading the story gets me back into the right "head space". I recapture the mood I had when I wrote the previous day's work.
The second benefit is that I DO find myself changing words. I'll find that I used "slightly" two times in the same paragraph or that people are constantly smiling, laughing, or raising eyebrows (ok, that's from a different thread, but it happens lol).
I find little mistakes along the way that I didn't notice because I was in the flow of writing. "The the" or "and and", a word left in a sentence I thought better of or a word omitted.
Oh, and I find words that just don't fit. I find myself asking, "Would the character really use that word or is that just ME lamely trying to show off my vocabulary?" lol. I'm really not the kind of author who makes the reader keep a dictionary next to them as they go through the story. It doesn't fit the stories that I write.
The third benefit I am hoping to find is that when I go back to proof and edit, there will be fewer silly errors to fix. Hopefully, that will allow me to focus on improving the story rather than "saving" it from simple mistakes.
Lastly, and this is important to ME, I am limiting myself to writing between 1K and 2K words per day. Even when I am on a roll, I try not to go beyond 2K words because I have found that my action and dialogue get stale if I write too much.
If there is "story" that I simply must get onto paper, I go write an outline for that next scene.
My focus is on writing "good words" now instead of quantity. Limiting myself to the number of words I write helps me do that. Of course, YMMV and I am no expert!
Splitter