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Name your most successful marketing technique
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Nick
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Jan 07, 2013 03:57PM
Well said Marc, especially that contents trumps all...
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Yes, I agree completely. Most important is good, interesting, well-edited, and professionally produced content. Next are a good cover and an appealing blurb and some means of getting both of those in front of enough eyes that those readers who will like the book have a chance to see it. Then Goodreads kicks in as the social network best suited to connecting books and readers.But unless there's a there there, a good cover and spamming on Goodreads won't help you.
Actually, spamming won't help, even on Goodreads. It just annoys people. But talking to people on Goodreads is great.
This showed up this morning and I thought it would be very relevant to this discussion. To summarize. 1. Find correct audience
2. Be patient
3. Be persistent
Idea adoption
Sort of looks like hard work and skill are still needed. Anyone disagree or have a short cut to the top that makes the information above outdated?
Marc, agree with the 3 points you make. Like those who remind us that writing is 95% hard work. But since I've never been at the top, although I've written 9 books, I may be all wet. A lot depends on providential circumstances and platform.
Here is a problem no one wants to talk about...If I remember right. Publishers Weekly reported in 2010 that over 750,000 book titles were published. They did not break down how they were published or by types. Of those 750,000 titles, only 250,000 were by big six and smaller publishers. This left 500,000 titles that are considered, self published.
So what do those number mean?
We have more writers competing with each other for the same readers, and readership is not really growing at the same rate. Yes, e-books is growing, but these users are not NEW readers in most cases. They are already a part of the mix, just using a new delivery device.
So again, what does this mean...
Simple there are some writers who are self publishing without any idea of what the market place is like. When a market place is over saturated with a product, then the value of the product is reduced. This is what is happening in publishing right now. Over saturation...
So should we quit? Hell no. Just be aware of your audience and write the best damn book you can in a professional manner and the audience will find you. It may take longer than you think, but word of mouth is still the best way to advertise and build your platform...
Or so are my views as a reader and a writer...
Nick wrote: "Here is a problem no one wants to talk about...If I remember right. Publishers Weekly reported in 2010 that over 750,000 book titles were published."
The real numbers are actually worse than that Sad numbers, the figures I saw showed close to 3,000,000 published books for 2011 of which close to 300,000 came from traditional publishing.
I've also heard that Amazon is adding 50,000 new titles a month. So the while the numbers aren't exactly adding up, I think we can all agree there are a lot of books out there.
No doubt luck does play a role in a market like this. I've also been surprised at how few people do much more than whine. I offered a list of book review bloggers that I've had good luck with to other people here on Gooreads, only six people had an interest. So what is everyone else up to???
I don't mind hard work and persistence but I also believe in working smarter. I've got an idea I would like to try but need some real data to work with.
I think part of the problem is that books aren't classified accurately enough. I know what I like to read but have to wander through piles of everything else to get to it. Even good books are completely buried right now.
I'd appreciate it if any of you would take the time to look at book genre list below and could then let me know (here or pm) how many main genre and then sub-genre you would put your book into.
Genre list
I wondering if perhaps the problem has more to do with lack of classification and sorting than saturation. I know this much, there is some incredible yet unknown talent out there (nope, it's not me...).
Marc wrote: I wondering if perhaps the problem has more to do with lack of classification and sorting than saturation..."Good point, Marc. I struggled with the classification for my book. Finally looked at well-known authors who fit my genre (somewhat) and followed their lead.
Linda wrote: "Thanks so much for sharing this Shawn. With my 15 years in marketing and sales (before becoming a writer), I am sure that no hired PR firm (that I can afford) can do any better job at marketing my..."Then you have much to share with us...please?
Sara (Josephine)
Marc wrote: I think part of the problem is that books aren't classified accurately enough."I tend to agree but when I look at the classifications I find often that my book fits two or three of them, and one time five. I think the classifications are good but when you find that your book fits in two or more classifications how do you choose just one?
When I look at the classification list, It's broken down to say 50 sections, each section then has 50 subsections, each subsection has 10 sub-subsections. It gets overwhelming.
Stephen wrote: "It gets overwhelming. "I agree completely. I like to start by breaking literature into two branches, non-fiction and fiction. From there non-fiction has 50 some sections, of which some have over 200 sub-sections. Fiction is easier as it breaks into two sections, general and juvenile, which each then have numerous subsections.
My point with all of this is that if authors could better identify the content of their books it would result in better matches with those readers most likely to get excited about a particular book.
I actually think winning the crowd over is easier than we think, we just go about it wrong (we go after the crowd, instead of focusing on individuals who will in turn get the crowd excited).
There is no particular genre of book that has a guaranteed lock on becoming a best seller. What does, "Harry Potter, Twilight, Fifty Shades of Grey, or Good to Great," have in common? I would argue that all of these books started with a small group of fans that told the crowd what to like.
Thus back to my initial thought. If books were classified better and thus made easier for readers with specific interests to find them would authors still need to spend as much time on marketing versus creating better content? After all if you cannot excite the small group that really cares about a particular genre, you really shouldn't expect the crowd to care either.
So how many genre and sub-genre do you spread your book across?
Marc wrote: "Nick wrote: "Here is a problem no one wants to talk about...If I remember right. Publishers Weekly reported in 2010 that over 750,000 book titles were published."
The real numbers are actually ..."
I would put my novel, Captives of Minara, suspense set in Pakistan under the following genres.
-Fiction
-Fiction General
-Fiction/ Action and Adventure
-Fiction/Asian American
-Fiction/Christian/Suspense
-Fiction/Romance/Suspense
-Fiction/Thrillers
-Fiction/Thrillers/Suspense
-Fction/Thrillers/Crime
I recall reading once about a tactic some authors have used where they check out the various categories their book(s) could fit, and then entered it/them into those categories with the fewest number of books. The idea being that the fewer the number of books in the category, the greater the chance their own would be noticed and stand out for fans of a given category of books.
I think the practice that Walter mentioned could be part of the problem. What would the reaction of ice cream eaters expecting chocolate be if they opened the carton and it was orange sherbert instead? My book is. Non-fiction, with the following.
Family & Relationships / Love & Romance
Family & Relationships / Marriage
Humor / Topic / Marriage & Family
Humor / Topic / Relationships
Social Science / Sociology / Marriage & Family
In my mind if I could find the people that are specifically interested in those genre and sub-genre I would have far better luck.
The numbers make an even stronger case. From the book genre list I posted above comes the following. For Non-fiction there are 48 unique genre with an underlying 3452 sub-genre. For Fiction I think there are two main genre, General with 115 sub-genre and Juvenile with 270 sub-genre.
If my book only connects with 5 sub-genre, why am I marketing to readers of the other 3717 sub-genre? What makes me think readers of those other sub-genre want to hear from me?
Well, if an author places a book into a category in which it does not fit, it seems to me he or she is defeating the purpose of categorizing it in the first place. No one comes to Science Fiction > Space Opera looking for John Updike's last Rabbit novel.And as it so happens, I wasn't suggesting doing that at all. What I said was that if an author must choose between two separate, but compatible, categories, some authors will put their book into the category where it faces the least competition.
For example, if an author has written an historical mystery, say there are two categories into which it could be placed, but only one category can be chosen: (1) mysteries > historical or (2) fiction > historical > mysteries.
If (1) has 10,000 novels included in that category, but (2) only has 2,000, then it could make sense to place the novel in (2). While category (1) is likely to generate more eyeballs (because of its presumed popularity, since the selection is much larger), putting it in (2) means that there is less competition for the eyeballs that category does attract.
Makes sense to me, but other's mileage may vary.
I certainly understood what you meant and I agree with your analysis. I wrote a children's book that fell into the category of both sports and mystery and struggled for awhile with which category to select. I finally chose mystery but I really push the sports angle when I blog about it. Upon reflection, I might choose the sports field when I publish the sequel for exactly the reason you mentioned. I think sports fiction for kids is a smaller field, and perhaps they will magically link into both. I can dream.
Hi, I am new to this group and have read most of the input you're written with respect to readers versus books being published and the subject on self published writers. When sending out one's work to the big publishers, more often than not they reject the manuscript unless you have a really good hook to grab their attention. And there is the problem with trends. Vampires, then dystropic, then werewolves (not in that order, of course), and so on. When a trend appears, everyone scrambles to fill the market with them because they believe readers want more. IMO that ultimately backfires because the glut turns readers away from the subject unless they are die hard fans. Case in point: I am a paranormal writer. The market is large for this genre however there were few ways to jazz paranormal stories up to keep readers coming back because "new and fresh" ideas have all been done. Big named writers with PR departments behind them do well but what about the new ones struggling to get their name out there? Competition is steep, readers may be reluctant to give a new author a try because they are unknown as to their writing ability and, again, word of mouth applies but how does a newbie get word of mouth PR if no one reads their books? I have been on Facebook and looked at how they push their work out there, some relentlessly putting the face of their book into groups on a weekly basis. Does this gander sales or turn off people who might think "there they go again, putting their book in our face". One can talk statistics but when you are in the bottom half of those numbers because you don't have the social skills, the money or location to do book signings, marketing or the personalty that draws people to you, you are looking at a long ladder climb. Persistence may be the key but again, without resources and people helping you get out there, it's difficult for new writers. So how does one accomplish their goal? I believe in my book, the work put into it to make it entertaining so how does my enthusiasm translate into sales?
An interesting post and I like your assessment on "trends":-) As for the fact that you believe in your book, I think that's crucial. But what is more important still is to know if the readers like your book. My question to you is:"Have you had independent reviews done?" First rule is to make sure it's good. Second rule is to package it well. Rule number three is to go where your potential. readers are and engage them enough to drive traffic back to you. Good luck with your journey:-) Suzanne
Hi Janeira,What exactly is a blog tour? Is this an arrangement whereby you go around to various blogs and they interview you or something along those lines?
Thanks,
Joseph
Janiera wrote: "Yeah, my best marketing technique is a blog tour whether you set one up or pay someone to do it for you. It really does work well and all authors should use it to interact with their readers and f..."
Joseph wrote: "Hi Janeira,What exactly is a blog tour? Is this an arrangement whereby you go around to various blogs and they interview you or something along those lines?
Thanks,
Joseph"
Joseph, if you look in the Publishing Industry folder of this group, you will see a "What's a Blog Tour?" thread that will answer your questions.
Good luck!
L.M. wrote: "Hi, I am new to this group and have read most of the input you're written with respect to readers versus books being published and the subject on self published writers. When sending out one's work..."Hi L.M. You've articulated a very real problem to which there is no easy answer. The difficulty with self-publishing is that you not only have to write an incredible book, or a series of them, you then have to transform yourself magically into a book editor, designer, art director, subsidiary rights manager, publicist, marketer, and salesperson, just to give that book a smidgeon of a chance. Many of the publicity and distribution channels available to commercial publishers are closed to self-publishers, who generally don't get library sales, placement in brick-and-mortar stores, translation rights sales, or reviews in mainstream papers and other outlets.
Sounds grim, doesn't it? Some self-published writers are making it work, but most of the successful ones have been traditionally published before, already have fan bases, and know enough (and can afford) to hire professionals to help them. Writes like yourself who are new to the market and don't have a million twitter followers, etc., struggle to sell to anyone outside their immediate circles.
I'm afraid you won't like my answer, but here it is. If you really want to make it as a writer, forget the book that's already out there and start writing another. Do the best job you can, then get help---smart beta readers or a professional evaluator or editor. When the book is in the best possible shape, write a killer query letter and start looking for a literary agent. If that doesn't fly, you can try small publishers who accept submissions directly from writers. It takes a long time and it's frustrating, but IMO, it's still the best shot at achieving what we all want, which is getting our work into the hands of readers.
Nick,How kind. I've finally reached the point, and age, where I'm wise instead of a wise ass!
Barbara wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Hi, I am new to this group and have read most of the input you're written with respect to readers versus books being published and the subject on self published writers. When sending o..."Thanks for the advice Barbara. There is some confusion here about whether I am self-published or not and the answer is, no. I went through an Indie publisher who doesn't have have a marketing plan in place and it is left to the authors to get the word spread around about their work. When I saw this group, I thought that it would be way of getting information on how to get the word out about marketing your book here and elsewhere. I didn't mean to start any feuds or imply one individual was right and another is wrong. I only want to get my work out there, word of mouth if that is what it takes, and get it done. Is there any way to get that going, if so how or is this the wrong place to be asking that question?
L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Hi, I am new to this group and have read most of the input you're written with respect to readers versus books being published and the subject on self published writers..."Hi L.M.
Nice to meet you! It's fine to ask your question here---it's relevant, and I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't have.
Terminology is changing along with everything else in the publishing industry. I'm not sure, for example, what you mean by an indie publisher. I've heard self-published writers call themselves indie writers, but not the other term. If the publisher bought the rights from you, covered all the expenses entailed in publishing, handled distribution and marketing, paid you an advance, and will continue to pay royalties as the book sells, that's a traditional small publisher. If you put your own money into the publication of your book, then your publisher is what's called a vanity publisher--they don't like that name, of course, but that sort of business has been around a long time and IMO they're usually predatory. Then there are companies that offer various services, for a fee. They're not your publisher and they have no rights to the book, they just help you get it out there.
Regardless of how it was published, I wish you every success with your book.
Barbara,Most Indie publishers do not pay advances or pay very small token advances. They also may not have the marketing budget of larger publishers, but they still do all the things the big boys do, just on a smaller scale. Lots of well know Indie publishers out there with good reputations that are not vanity publishers.
Indie is a common enough term that is not new, only in who uses it now and how they use it.
It's true a lot of self published writers and vanity publisher would rather be called Indie, so yes, we do have to research what Indie means to the publisher.
To me, if I have to pay for any services, or if the publisher says its a joint venture deal, I keep going. Money should always flow to the writer, not the other way around...
Barbara wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Hi, I am new to this group and have read most of the input you're written with respect to readers versus books being published and the subject on self publ..."Thanks Barbara. Indie publishers are independent publishers, and its small scale so yees, we have to dedicate time to marketing. Sorry there was a mix up.
Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the author is earning out for them. Then they will then invest their own money but authors are still expected to hold up their end, espec. with regard to social networking.
Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the author is earning out for them. Then they will..."Very true. My publisher, Viking, put me in touch with their online marketing experts who gently but inexorably pushed me toward Twitter. Which I joined, btw: I hope folks here will find me at @RoganBarbara and say hi. Writers are expected to help promote their work whether they're published by the big 6 or a small house.
I just paid $150 to be a book of the day on Ereader News Today. I will be featured on Friday. I'll come back and share the results. I'm putting my book on at $2.99. I know a lot of people opt for 0.99 so hopefully that doesn't put off customers. Anyway, does anyone else have experience with being featured on these pay sites? $150 is a lot for my marketing budget but if it makes it back I'll be really satisfied.
Barbara wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Hi, I am new to this group and have read most of the input you're written with respect to readers versus books being published and the subject on self published writers. When sending o..."I spent over $25,000 7 years ago on my first book project for 1500 books. There were no e-books in those days , only hardcover. I still have 500 in my closet.
I self published after 6 months of rejection and frustration with publishers. I was told the world wasn't ready for my message. Since then many authors duplicated my message and benefitted financially.
Now instead of feeling like why couldn't have that been me. I decided to write a shorter second book (47 pages) and made it into an e-book. Paid Bookbaby $325 to publish, and by the way they don't provide promotion services. They should, it makes sense.
Basically you are on your own, I just happen to be in the media and it works better for me. But still you are on your own. Somebody should come up with the idea of pooling our resources and hiring a full time person, who does nothing but promote our books everyday. Kind of an "Authors promotional collective.".
You get 100 indie authors paying$20 a month ($2,000) and you can hire a social media person to do the things every day that we don't have the time or inclination to do. We are writers and authors and so it does not fit the job description. She/he could also set up a one day virtual "Meet the Author" day and we could all be featured.
I'd be happy to be the MC and introduce you all with a brief interview. She should have everything set up for instant PayPal purchase. At least we could see our dollars coming in instantly. It takes 4- 6 weeks lag time for sales with Amazon and I-Tunes.
My next e-book is going to be the "Stories of Zentrepreneurs". I've asked for submissions already. They will be the contributors, so I just have to edit. People love to hear other people's stories.
My two cents this morning...
Barbara wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the author is earning out for them..."I heard that it is difficult to start a Twitter gathering and that if you just pop in and start promoting your book, most people will avoid you. So it takes time to draw up a following, that could take months. Mind telling me how you managed that and how long it took before you were able to see results.
Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the author is earning out for them. Then they will..."Social networking doesn't cost the author anything, just time and effort.
L.M. wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the author is earning out for them..."Yup, just time and effort that I could be spending on writing!
L.M., I am just getting started in Twitter and barely know anyone. But I've collected some good information on how to use Twitter, and I've "met" some interesting people; I've also found it provides great fodder for my blog as well as information and leads on any subject of interest. My upcoming book, A DANGEROUS FICTION, will be published by Viking in July 2013, so I hope by that time to have more of a beachhead on Twitter. But it's also just something I want in place to make it easier for readers to find and connect with me, once the book comes out.A long answer. We'll see how it all plays out. I had the opportunity to chat with the head of Viking/Penguin's online marketing department, and I asked him what sort of quantitative data they had, if any, on the effect of Twitter on sales. Doesn't seem like there's much hard data; it's just expected now that authors be easily accessible and active.
It really pangs me to see so many authors work so hard on their books and then find that after months of marketing, they have jack squat to show for it. :-( There must be another way, a way that works.I came across this Youtube video on developing a foolproof book marketing plan, so perhaps it will help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr5Kog... :-)
Barbara wrote: "L.M., I am just getting started in Twitter and barely know anyone. But I've collected some good information on how to use Twitter, and I've "met" some interesting people; I've also found it provide..."Thanks Barbara. Before my book was published, I established myself on Facebook and Goodreads alone. I am not a Twitter fan nor do I enjoy blogging but those seem to be the avenues that yield the best results. While it may be too late for me to just open a Twitter account and start promoting my current book, I do have another coming out in April that I can start a campaign for and later, after establishing myself, I can add my first book. But long story stort, I am trying as many things as possible and hope, against odds, a following comes out of it.
Thanks for taking the time to offer your input!
Joshua wrote: "It really pangs me to see so many authors work so hard on their books and then find that after months of marketing, they have jack squat to show for it. :-( There must be another way, a way that wo..."Thanks for the link Joshua. After reading so many marketing books, and seeing the same old information, which hasn't really yielded much, it's nice to be able to just watch a video about this.
L.M. wrote: "Joshua wrote: "It really pangs me to see so many authors work so hard on their books and then find that after months of marketing, they have jack squat to show for it. :-( There must be another way..."I know exactly what you mean. When reading article after article, "the facts" get old. And then you realize that the facts aren't true and don't work, because everybody else is using them.
L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the author is earn..."I decided that I was finally going to get serious about writing full time last June. I read up on everything I could get my hands on about marketing. The major reference was Writer's Digest. I took a tutorial about starting your writer platform as early as possible. So I started a blog where I review debut authors. As soon as I got onto Twitter, I was inundated with requests. It didn't take long to get a following and now I have over 1,600 followers! I most recently joined LinkedIn and I am in contact with not only other authors but literary agents and editors and other reviewers. I have had several that have offered to read my book when I'm done. I am still researching and I have a long way to go before I'm done..but I have a lot of great contacts. This is great too. Do some reviews on here and some of the authors and readers will help you. I hope that helps. :)
Rebecca wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until such time as the a..."Great advice, Rebecca. I think the only reason I finally got a LinkedIn account is because you invited me :-D Congrats on your WIP and all you've accomplished so far!
Alesha wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until su..."Thanks Alesha! I hope the LinkedIn account helps. I appreciate the good wishes on the WIP too. Sometimes it seems like a mountain, (think Mt. Everest!) and I am still at the base! Lots of research..but slowly and surely I will get there. :)
'Alesha wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing at least until su..."I've got sooo much to learn. I'm on LinkedIn but have never worked out how to contact 'other authors, literary agents and editors and other reviewers'.
Francene wrote: "'Alesha wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "L.M. wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Devorah wrote: "Actually, even the "Big Six" publishers expect the author to do the lion's share of promotion, publicity and marketing a..."I'm on LinkedIn too. A friend in another industry swears by it, finds it very useful for marketing but I have yet to get into it in a big way.
Francene, I'm still learning as well :)
Is LinkedIn a good marketing tool? I have never heard of anyone using it before now.
I can't count how many times I've read that some technique, usually involving social media, is the best and most fruitful promotional idea ever -- when I've seen it have little to no effect. People whose books do well tend to identify something they did as the cause, when it may be quite unrelated.The one piece of advice I've seen often which I do believe is to write more books! When you have multiple books available, a satisfied reader of one can find the others. So we should all do some promotion and then get back to the work of writing.
Karen wrote: "I can't count how many times I've read that some technique, usually involving social media, is the best and most fruitful promotional idea ever -- when I've seen it have little to no effect."I have to agree with you there Karen, I find that I have to only devote one hour a day to my marketing and the rest of my available time to writing and the other things that have to be done during the day. I could easily spend that time chasing the next big marketing idea and blow off my writing. But then that just puts me behind. But then again I am happy if I sell only one book a month right now. So I don't push marketing to hard at this point.
Karen & Stephen, that is good advice. I have spent hours on the internet trying to find whatever is out there to promote my book and little time writing another. While I do have a second book read for publication, due out in April, I had hoped to have a fan base before that book came out. I'm guessing now that I have been looking at this all wrong. Thanks.
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