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The Craft > Name your most successful marketing technique

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message 151: by Katja (new)

Katja Willemsen (katjaw) | 27 comments Barbara wrote: "Kathy and all---and that's the situation for someone WITH marketing experience, so we can all imagine (or already know) how dire it is for complete tyros. The hard truth, IMO, is that very few of t..."

Barbara makes a great point. No, I've never read a book because:
-- I read a blog
-- I stumbled on the author's FB page
-- I scanned Amazon's best seller lists
-- someone tweeted about it
-- it was available as a free copy/ download

I've only read books that:
-- I read a great review about in a medium I know and trust
-- a friend recommended it to me
-- it was by an author known to me

Depressing reality check. As an ex-marketer like Kathy, I agree we should choose a focussed path, limit our time away from WRITING, be patient, and stick to it.

Jumping about and never giving a strategy long enough to prove itself is unproductive. And no, a month isn't long enough :). Any PR specialist will tell you that it'll take 6-12 months...

As I write this, I realise I'm guilty of all of the above. Time to focus and get back to writing.


message 152: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Petrakis | 37 comments Barbara wrote: "Kathy and all---and that's the situation for someone WITH marketing experience, so we can all imagine (or already know) how dire it is for complete tyros. The hard truth, IMO, is that very few of t..."

I agree on most things except most publishers put very little into marketing all but their top authors so even those with publishing deals can be disappointed with the lack of marketing support...so all it not lost without a publishing deal.

Actually, many of the marketers in publishing companies use many of the same blogs and reviewers I have been trying!


message 153: by [deleted user] (new)

First of all you write a book that you know is brilliant, have it proofed, then find a good literary agent (OK this can be a chance in a million) but they know the major publishing houses and OK you will probably have to wait a year to be published. But they spend about four months or so plugging the book through their marketing department, they send their reps with review copies to all the small and large bookshops, your book is placed in the front of the bookstore, book signings, chat shows on TV/Radio. But then you all know that...

Be positive, keep your regular job and keep plugging... Brilliance always prevails.


message 154: by Barbara (new)

Barbara Rogan (barbararogan) | 95 comments I agree on most things except most publishers put very little into marketing all but their top authors so even those with publishing deals can be disappointed with the lack of marketing support...so all it not lost without a publishing deal.

Actually, many of the marketers in publishing companies use many of the same blogs and reviewers I have been trying! ."


Yes and no. Publishers put ad money into big books, but every book published by a major house is assigned a publicist who works hard to get the book reviewed in all major publications and other media. My publisher, Viking, also assigns an online marketing person to focus on that whole world. Of course writers are expected and encouraged to have their own presence, be accessible, etc. But having those pros on your side is incredibly valuable. There are also lots of people working behind the scenes: art departments, national sales force, special sales (to libraries--hugely important for midlist writers), etc. It's hardly an even playing field, which is why I advise aspiring writers to aim for a commercial publishing deal, hard as it is, before considering other routes.


message 155: by Elle (last edited Oct 11, 2012 12:28PM) (new)

Elle Thornton | 48 comments Barbara wrote: It's hardly an even playing field, which is why I advise aspiring writers to aim for a commercial publishing deal, hard as it is, before considering other routes.

I had a wonderful New York agent. He did all that you describe, getting my book read by senior editors at the top houses. He was hopeful of one major Big Six publisher in particular, but ultimately the book was turned down. I had a choice: feel sorry for myself or take the Indie route. I didn't want to continue moping (of course I did some of this) and I believe very much in the story, so I took the Indie path, something that I absolutely never ever thought I'd do.
As a result, I've given myself a lot of interesting new experiences in that world, met a lot of nice people, and learned new skills. I no longer think anyone's going to discover me, but I do think aspiring writers need to know that big commercial publishers are increasingly looking at Indie authors and signing them for the contracts you describe, with all the expertise and help authors need and/or long for.


message 156: by Debra (new)

Debra Benson (goodreadscomdebrabenson) | 4 comments Barbara wrote: "Kathy and all---and that's the situation for someone WITH marketing experience, so we can all imagine (or already know) how dire it is for complete tyros. The hard truth, IMO, is that very few of t..."

Kathy wrote: "Walter wrote: "While all of these ideas are all good and can generate solid followers, it is too much to keep track of realistically without making promotion of the book a full time job.

Marketing..."


Barbara wrote: "Kathy and all---and that's the situation for someone WITH marketing experience, so we can all imagine (or already know) how dire it is for complete tyros. The hard truth, IMO, is that very few of t..."

I agree with this Barbara improving our craft. Awhile ago an author blogged write your book publish it, don't spend unnecessary time promoting it. Get busy and write the next one, the word will get out.


message 157: by Barbara (new)

Barbara Rogan (barbararogan) | 95 comments Elle, stories like yours are painful to hear. Finding an agent, getting close to an offer from a publisher, and then having it not work is horrendously disappointing. I'm glad you had a choice--and the one you made won't hurt your chances on selling future books to publishers. You might be interested in a recent interview I did with literary agent Gail Hochman on the subject, as well as one with a Viking/Penguin editor who talk about the issue. http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=81


message 158: by Linda (new)

Linda Nelson (lindajnelson) | 6 comments Barbara wrote: "Elle, stories like yours are painful to hear. Finding an agent, getting close to an offer from a publisher, and then having it not work is horrendously disappointing. I'm glad you had a choice--and..."

Thanks for posting that article.


message 159: by Jason (new)

Jason Reeser | 41 comments Barbara wrote: "Kathy and all---and that's the situation for someone WITH marketing experience, so we can all imagine (or already know) how dire it is for complete tyros. The hard truth, IMO, is that very few of t..."

Barbara wrote: "Kathy and all---and that's the situation for someone WITH marketing experience, so we can all imagine (or already know) how dire it is for complete tyros. The hard truth, IMO, is that very few of t..."
You might be right, Kathy, but for me the point is not the sales. (Which published writers have admitted are not what we imagine them to be.) For me the point is having control over your own work, and getting out where people can read it. That's enough for me. I've fought with editors, and that's not what I'm interested in. I'm middle-aged, comfortable in my career, and the writing is what I want to do, and I do so with complete freedom. But yes, the sales won't allow me to quit my job. But my job is where I learn so much about human interactions, I might not be able to write without it.


message 160: by Jason (new)

Jason Reeser | 41 comments A thanks goes out to everyone who explained the KDP book promotions. It has worked out really well, and started my latest books release off with a bang. You've all been very helpful and full of great advice.


message 161: by Elle (new)

Elle Thornton | 48 comments Barbara wrote: "You might be interested in a recent interview I did with literary agent Gail Hochman on the subject, as well as one with a Viking/Penguin editor who talk about the issue. http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=81 "
Thanks, and I will read the two interviews.


message 162: by Devorah (new)

Devorah Fox (devorahfox) Richard wrote: "Patrick wrote: "Since the word of the last few posts seems to be "pain," I'm wondering if there's something Goodreads can do to help ease that pain.

I've asked this before in other threads, but w..."


Oh, that's a neat idea: a gallery of successful ads. Mailchimp provides something like that. It offers a gallery of successful email subject lines that result in high "open" rates for email newsletters.The Lost King


message 163: by Billy (new)

Billy Franks (billyfranks) | 2 comments Here's where I think I was a little fortunate. I have been a singer/songwriter for 3 decades. I have a small but very loyal band of followers around the world. I asked them to join me in an "on-line-street-team". They post on various blogs and forums. Share and ask the friends to share on Facebook, etc. My own OST has grown daily and the sales of my book have remained steady.

If you have Facebook pages of other social network accounts, I suggest you give it a try. Just don't nick anyone from my team!

Be good.
Billy


message 164: by Marc (new)

Marc Brackett | 74 comments I mailed out free copies of my book to beauty salons across the states. While I wish I could claim the idea was original it came from a Wall Street Journal article that talked about what is called ghetto lit and how it is marketed. I had very good results, although I think I got in to big of a hurry. I needed to have more blog content, my e-book wasn't finished yet, and I didn't even have a Goodreads account. However it gave me a base audience and those physical copies are still out there being read and passed around. Done properly with everything in place I think it could be very powerful.


message 165: by Elle (new)

Elle Thornton | 48 comments This is a great idea! Thanks!!


message 166: by Ardin (new)

Ardin Lalui (ardinlalui) | 62 comments Not sure how successful this is going to be for me but I'm in the middle of a free promo for Amazon KDPselect. Just uploaded the story yesterday and promoted it on facebook. So far 50 downloads. Not much but it's a start.
There is No Otherwise.


message 167: by Elle (new)

Elle Thornton | 48 comments Ardin wrote: "Not sure how successful this is going to be for me but I'm in the middle of a free promo for Amazon KDPselect. Just uploaded the story yesterday and promoted it on facebook. So far 50 downloads. No..."

Did you promote only on FB? If you decide to do another KDP promo, you may want to promote the book on some of the free Kindle sites like Pixel of Ink or Kindleboards.


message 168: by Ardin (new)

Ardin Lalui (ardinlalui) | 62 comments I had a look at Pixel of Ink but I wasn't able to figure out how to promote on there. Is there a place to do it, or do you have to send it to them in advance?


message 169: by Elle (new)

Elle Thornton | 48 comments It is a little indirect, but try this: use this address:
http://www.pixelofink.com/sfkb/
It takes you to a page and on the left side you'll see "Start Here"; that takes you to another page, and you scroll down to the heading About Pixel of Ink and look under it for "Authors Corner"; cick on Authors Corner and you're taken to a page where you are asked a series of questions about your book and the days it will be offered for free via Kindle store (be sure to have those dates). Pixel of Ink is just one of many sites that will promote your free Kindle ebook.
Here are three other sites (out of many more, just go to Google and do a search under free Kindle books):
http://www.ereaderiq.com/contact
e-ReaderNews Today http://ereadernewstoday.com/ent-free-...
http://www.kindleboards.com/free-book...

I hope these work for you. You may also want to consider joining the Independent Author Network, which does a nice job of promotion: independentauthornetwork@gmail.com or contact the site developer william r. potter at wrpotter68@gmail.com

I hope this helps!


message 170: by Ardin (new)

Ardin Lalui (ardinlalui) | 62 comments Wow. Thanks Elle. This is really great advice. I'll get started with what you've said. And I'll be sure to check out your work too :)


message 171: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Elle, you wouldn't happen to be associated with any of those sites would you?


message 172: by Nick (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments 2013...More money will be made in author services than book sales...

Or so Mark Coker, founder of Smashwords proclaims in his yearly predictions. If you want to read the whole article, here is the link. Just copy and past...

http://blog.smashwords.com/2012/12/ma...

As to what the article says, In his #14 prediction,...

"With the shift to self-publishing, writers must carry the publishing burdens once borne by traditional publishers, such as the cost of editing, proofing, book production, packaging, and distribution, as well as backoffice tasks such as accounts receivable, accounts payable and year-end tax reporting. Third parties are building businesses to serve the needs of indie authors. Most indie ebooks sell poorly at first, so it’s not uncommon that writers will invest an amount of money in their books that far exceeds their near term return.

This is a problem. Writers want to publish books that reach readers, but to reach readers they must produce books that are as good or better than what the big NY publishers are putting out. This means writers must invest time and talent in their books, and if outside talent is required, it usually costs money. With this burgeoning demand for professional publishing services, thousands of service providers will open up virtual author services shops in 2013. The challenge for writers is to procure the highest quality services at the lowest cost. Plenty of scamsters and over-priced service providers will be standing by to help."

So what does Mark mean? In other words, self published writers are going to spend more money on author services to sell their book, than what they can expect to recoup.

This is not good with any business model, unless your Amazon and selling your Kindles as loss leaders because you expect to make up the loss by selling millions of titles a year.

What I have found to be true in these type of marketing devices, they are pushed by self published guru's to self published writers who want to believe they too can be the next Stephanie Myers.

In other words, these self publishing gurus are counting on self published writers supporting each other more so than the average readers doing the buying. But you know what, while I applaud and support self published writers, I only have so much time in a day to try to find a gem amongst the rubbish. How many blogs can I read in a day, or reviews?

So what is the best marketing technique. Word of mouth. Write a good book that has been professionally edited, with better than average cover art that will get the readers raving, and the word will spread. Slowly perhaps, but with self publishing, the object is to build a platform that readers will come back to time and time again. This means giving them, what the commercial publishers give them. Quality...

Now I know some may not agree with Mark, or with my views. That is OK. I got no beef with disagreement. As a matter of fact, a writers personal goals are what is important. If its just to sell a few hundred copies to family and friends, then that is easy to achieve. But if the writer hopes to have a career as even a mid list writer, they still have to produce a quality product to keep the readers coming back time and again...

Good luck all, and by the way, Mark has a lot of predictions for 2013 about self publishing and indie publishing, some of which are very interesting. Read the article...


message 173: by Marc (new)

Marc Brackett | 74 comments Nick wrote: "2013...More money will be made in author services than book sales...

Or so Mark Coker, founder of Smashwords proclaims in his yearly predictions. If you want to read the whole article, here is th..."


Nick,

That was a great article, well worth the visit. Thanks for sharing that.

I can unfortunately agree with you on marketing, word of mouth and patience- there really are no short cuts that produce lasting results.


message 174: by Barbara (new)

Barbara Rogan (barbararogan) | 95 comments Nick wrote: "2013...More money will be made in author services than book sales...

Or so Mark Coker, founder of Smashwords proclaims in his yearly predictions. If you want to read the whole article, here is th..."


Thanks, Nick, for sharing this interesting, meaty article. I have to say, though, that ultimately I agree with agent Don Maass, who told Coker he's delusional.

Let's leave aside all Coker's silliness about publishers determined to keep writers down [sigh]. The stature of self-publishing has indeed changed dramatically, and some writers, like the 50 Shades author, have struck it rich...but those writers have taken advantage of their success to do the very thing Coker thinks is so nonsensical: i.e., they sign with mainstream publishers. There are a few writers moving the other way, from mainstream to self-publishing...but very few do it from choice.

What we will see--and here I agree with Coker--is continued growth in the ancillary services that have sprung up around self-publishing. Editing, proof-reading, design, pr and marketing---all the good stuff mainstream writers get free as part of the deal. Self-publishing gurus decry the big chunk publishers take out of the net price of books; but once writers start paying out of pocket for all those services, the perspective changes.

As for word of mouth: it does indeed sell books, but in order for the sales to mount to anything significant, the book has to (1) be excellent, and (2) reach a critical mass of initial readers who go nuts for it. Both these things are really hard to do, espcially given the fact that most books that good are snatched up by publishers and not self-published.

I don't want to go on at great length , but anyone interested is invited to read my post on "What if J. K. Rowling Had Self-published?" here. http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=29


message 175: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments I have not yet learned the most successful forms of marketing.
Now I am going to try excerpts. I would appreciate some feed back on the following excerpt from Goodbye Junie Moon.
“Put that thing away. You could have shot me. What in God’s name are you doing here?”
“I’m looking for food. Why else why would I be here? And why aren’t you out chasing the bad guys?” I accused.
“Shit! I should be! What a great fucking time to come down with food poisoning.” He strode to the door and looked outside. “There’s a Goddamn curfew. How the hell did you get here?”
“I walked.”
“Oh bullshit!
“No bullshit, and now I’ve got to walk back so I had better hurry before it gets dark. I don’t want a nervous MP shooting me.”
“Don’t chance it. You had better stay here the night.”
“Thanks but no thanks. If any choppers spot me, I’m definitely not dressed like Charlie.”
“You are crazy! Everyone’s trigger happy right now.”
“Don’t you talk! Your door was unlocked.
”Son of a bitch!”
“Anyhow, the fighting must have moved further away. I’m guessing down towards the Chinese area of Cholon.”
“Well if you won’t stay, be careful. You wouldn’t have died from hunger.”
He shook his head as I left with my little bundle.
The adrenalin which made the outward journey exciting had now dissipated. I couldn’t wait to get home.
Dead Charlie was still lying where I had left him, a swarm of flies keeping him company. His small, leather wallet lay open in the dirt beside him, stained dark with blood. I wondered had one of our soldiers taken it out of his pocket and thrown it down or had he managed to pull it out for a dying last look at photos of his loved ones? For a moment I thought of picking it up and looking through it but I didn’t want to see his photos. That would make him too human to me. I skirted him and hurried down the driveway, wondering would anyone move him before he began to stink. I said a silent prayer for his soul, but better him than one of ours, I reminded myself.
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B008BDWE1Q
BLOG http://memoirofjuniemoon.wordpress.com


message 176: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments I am struggling like everyone else over promotion. I've decided to give excerpts a shot. What do you all think?

Here's my first:
“Put that thing away. You could have shot me. What in "What in God’s name are you doing here?”
“I’m looking for food. Why else why would I be here? And why aren’t you out chasing the bad guys?” I accused.
“Shit! I should be! What a great fucking time to come down with food poisoning.” He strode to the door and looked outside. “There’s a Goddamn curfew. How the hell did you get here?”
“I walked.”
“Oh bullshit!
“No bullshit, and now I’ve got to walk back so I had better hurry before it gets dark. I don’t want a nervous MP shooting me.”
“Don’t chance it. You had better stay here the night.”
“Thanks but no thanks. If any choppers spot me, I’m definitely not dressed like Charlie.”
“You are crazy! Everyone’s trigger happy right now.”
“Don’t you talk! Your door was unlocked.
”Son of a bitch!”
“Anyhow, the fighting must have moved further away. I’m guessing down towards the Chinese area of Cholon.”
“Well if you won’t stay, be careful. You wouldn’t have died from hunger.”
He shook his head as I left with my little bundle.
The adrenalin which made the outward journey exciting had now dissipated. I couldn’t wait to get home.
Dead Charlie was still lying where I had left him, a swarm of flies keeping him company. His small, leather wallet lay open in the dirt beside him, stained dark with blood. I wondered had one of our soldiers taken it out of his pocket and but I didn’t want to see his photos. That would make him too human to me. I skirted him and hurried down the driveway, wondering would anyone move him before he began to stink. I said a silent prayer for his soul, but better him than one of ours, I reminded myself.

Good Bye Junie Moon will be free for the last time on 15-16 Jan. After that I'm dropping out of KDF.
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B008BDWE1Q
BLOG http://memoirofjuniemoon.wordpress.com


message 177: by Nick (last edited Dec 31, 2012 07:57PM) (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments June,

This thread is about marketing techniques and strategy. Not a place to put your excerpts.

As to the excerpt...the reader has no idea who any of the characters are, what the story is about, or where the story takes place. Not the type of excerpt that entices people to read on. I would also say from the limited about here, you have a ways to go before this story is ready. But that is just my humble opinion.

This is what I am talking about with self published writers who have no clue about publishing and hit the go live button before they are ready. They do not realize the damage they can cause to their good name and reputation.


message 178: by Nick (last edited Dec 31, 2012 07:43PM) (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments Barbara,

Well said and I agree with many of your points...


message 179: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments How very KIND of you. That is the kind of arrogance all writers need.


message 180: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments PS. What is a pont???


message 181: by Henry (new)

Henry III (alapahahcdbellsouthnet) | 6 comments June

Too much profanity in the POST....and for that matter, in the novel.


message 182: by Henry (new)

Henry III (alapahahcdbellsouthnet) | 6 comments June

Too much profanity in your excerpt...not appealing....surprised Goodreads hasn't commented...

Henry


message 183: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments Henry,
It is a book about war. That is the way people in such extreme circumstances talk. Of course the book is not all profanity. This was during Tet when Saigon was being over-run.
June


message 184: by P.S. (new)

P.S. Mokha (mokha) | 13 comments I think we should give June a break. Most agree this wasn't the place to post an excerpt, but she's trying to get her book out there and errors in judgement occur when pushing boundaries. Hopefully she will learn from the experience.

Good luck to June and all authors out there for 2013 and beyond.

A big Happy New Year from PS Mokha


message 185: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments Thank you for being gracious PS. And I'm sorry I mistakenly placed the excerpt here but not for the dialogue of my material.


message 186: by C.P. (last edited Dec 31, 2012 05:46PM) (new)

C.P. Lesley (cplesley) | 199 comments June wrote: "Henry,
It is a book about war. That is the way people in such extreme circumstances talk. Of course the book is not all profanity. This was during Tet when Saigon was being over-run.
June"


Maybe this will help, June. I am a well-intentioned reader. I know nothing about your book beyond the excerpt.

What tells me I am in Saigon? That it is Tet? That this is a military story?

Who is the "I" speaking? To whom am "I" speaking? What is going on between us, or while the fictional I is talking? If this was a movie, what would I the reader see?

At the moment, the excerpt does not tell me. And without answers to those questions, I the reader have no reason to read on. I'm looking for a world to sweep me away, but at the moment, you are asking me to guess at what you mean and fill in the blanks. It is the writer's job, never the reader's, to bring the fictional world to life and make it sing.

Happy New Year, everyone!


message 187: by June (new)

June Collins (junecollins) | 40 comments Thank you C.P. Point taken - I did forget to include necessary background.
I will avoid this particular forum in future, having caused such a furor, but before I go, my response to Nick's harsh comments is this; Maybe my current story has a way to go but I have almost a million books in print.....


message 188: by Nick (last edited Dec 31, 2012 08:07PM) (new)

Nick (nickanthony51) | 400 comments June, when posting an excerpt for a book, in which you want to entice readers, you post from the beginning so readers have a better understanding of what the story is about. Any experienced writer would understand this.

It would also help if you read the rules of the groups and sites you post on, as well as give warning when you use graphic language. Its called common courtesy.

Sorry you feel my comments are harsh, but from a readers point of view, this excerpt lacks all the information I need as a reader to make an informed decision on if I would by this book or not. I strongly suggest you grow some thick skin. The reader has the final say on what meets their needs. I am sure Robin Moore would agree.

Nick, a Vietnam vet...


message 189: by P.S. (new)

P.S. Mokha (mokha) | 13 comments June wrote: "Thank you for being gracious PS. And I'm sorry I mistakenly placed the excerpt here but not for the dialogue of my material."

No probs - here's to more mellow times ahead


message 190: by [deleted user] (new)

Yeah, my best marketing technique is a blog tour whether you set one up or pay someone to do it for you. It really does work well and all authors should use it to interact with their readers and find new ones.


message 191: by Geza (new)

Geza Tatrallyay | 19 comments Hi - I am new to Goodreads, and love the way it is structured. I have published an e-thriller, and wonder why the Giveaways program does not extend to e-books, since it seems like a very effective marketing tool. As a new member otherwise how do I break into getting rated and reviewed?


Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) Monette wrote: "Yeah, I did, but I didn't see any instructions on this. Thought someone had a quick answer for me. You know, maybe there are different ways, and what way worked for you, that kind of thing?"

Quick answer - http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/new


Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) Joanne wrote: "Thanks for the information, Patrick. I found it helpful, too. I like to know if you are expected to give away a certain number of books or just one?
Thanks,
Joanne"


Patrick will know best. But, from what I know, you can giveaway however many you want. One is not likely a good number; if average reviews netted = 57% of books given away ... I'd think at least 3 to 5. And consider "special" editions like "authographed by author."

The goodreads giveaway presentation slide show says a one month time period is usually productive.

I'd also say that this time of year with everyone having cabin fever and/or Christmas gift cards to amazon, bn, itunes, google play, etc. should be seeing a lot of browsers.


message 194: by Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) (last edited Jan 03, 2013 10:37AM) (new)

Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) One thing I think goodreads could make clearer to authors is how books get put into "genres."

I don't see a lot of new authors adding their own books to their "read" shelves and creating custom shelves for appropriate genres like "YA" "Young Adult" "Dystopian" ... "cookbooks" "food and wine" "recipes", etc. that lead to a book getting genres/top-shelves on the book page.

Granted, as members add the books to their own shelves that eventually takes care of itself. But doesn't help for books or brand new books that no one has shelved yet.

On the reader end of things, it is helpful to glance at genres/top-shelves and what friends have shelved a book on.

The last thing an author needs is someone picking up their serial killer werewolf horror story that usually enjoys humorous werewolf chick-lit end of paranormal romance books. Generally, most readers only pick up books to read they are already interested in -- but no one needs a bad review because they read something mistaking the genre/subject.

And genres/shelves do get used for things like book recommendations, some groups specify (for book of the month selections, various games/challenges, buddy reads, penpal reads, etc.) in addition to readers who just explore the genres and shelves browsing for their next book.

Realistically, not the best marketing/promotion ploy for a just starting author because the recommendations and most shelves all go by popularity. Nasty catch-22 that you can't get popular if people can't find you because you aren't popular.

But helps. And is free. And doesn't annoy anyone like some of the mass campaigns.


Debbie's Spurts (D.A.) I am positive goodreads would frown on adding your book to absolutely every genre (plus alienating readers).

But, it's not anything trying to game the ratings, rankings, reviews, etc. Just putting your book in the correct category. (I know there are two schools of thought on reviewing and rating your own books; shelving isn't going to be perceived as tooting your own horn.)


message 196: by Suzanne (new)

Suzanne Kiraly | 2 comments H.R. wrote: "All of these are informative ways of getting work known. My dad says I should try "the real deal" (getting someone to publish my work) but I'm not really sure that I'm ready. It's one thing to have..."
Hi H.R. - I think it's incredible that you have been writing for so long and you are still plagued by doubts as to how your readers are responding to your work. I suggest you get some independent reviews done - can do that through the aussiewriters website or many others who provide such a service - and then you can get honest feedback to either improve any weaknesses you may have or, in the best case scenario, feel affirmed as a good writer! Then, I would take the advice of your Dad, but not before I would be self-publishing first up. In fact self-published authors can often be discovered by "the real deal" online in any case:-) Good luck with your journey!


message 197: by Marc (new)

Marc Brackett | 74 comments I think it all comes back to reviews, and more than that reviews from the right people. Some use the Amazon KDP program to try and get the word out about their book and get reviews. Results suggest that it takes 1500 readers to generate one review, that's a lot of free books to get one opinion.

The number of people who are willing to have an opinion and thus determine what we wear, drink, drive, read, listen to, and talk about are a very small group. These people have already self-identified themselves in the literary world and are none other than the book review bloggers.

Each book review blogger comes with their own audience that wants to hear from them and they are viewed as credible. It does take time though to find them and they need to be treated with respect.

I have found that on average for every 10 sites I look at I get 1 prospect and of my prospects I have a 40% acceptance rate. In short if I visit 100 websites I will get 4 reviews. The key seems to be carefully picking your sites and then taking the time to respond to them in a personal manner.

For those interested I have came up with a fairly extensive collection of websites where book review bloggers are listed. I'd be more than happy to share this information but please don't form letter these people- it gives us all a bad name and makes getting reviews even harder in the future. If you are interested just contact me.

Selling books seems to be all about finding the people who want to hear from you. If you can find a couple of the people who want to hear from you, they will find you other people. Start by finding that first person.


message 198: by Francene (new)

Francene Stanley (goodreadscomfrancenestanley) | 5 comments Marc wrote: "I think it all comes back to reviews, and more than that reviews from the right people. Some use the Amazon KDP program to try and get the word out about their book and get reviews. Results suggest..."

I'd be interested in your list, Marc. I promist to approach each site individually. francenestan@hotmail.com


message 199: by Troy (new)

Troy Jackson | 26 comments Great advice, S.L.

Having released my first novel in mid-October, it's been a whirlwind of activity getting to word out.

I think the best source for me, so far, has been this very site - Goodreads. Great people - readers and writers alike.

I just did a giveaway for 3 paperback copies and had some 750 people request it over the span of a month. That's not including those that at least viewed it and maybe decided it wasn't for them. That's a lot of pairs of eyes on it! I also saw my "to-read" list jump into the hundreds. So if you have a paperback or hardcover version of your novel, this is the best place to do it. Readers WANT new books to sink their teeth into. Giveaways are harmless to them. If a book they win is bad, they didn't dump money into it. But if it's good... well, they will hopefully spread the word, write a review, etc.


message 200: by Marc (new)

Marc Brackett | 74 comments Two thoughts on the last two comments (S.L. and Troy). I like the wine example, but you need to break it down a bit further, type of wine and price. In addition the inventory of books is increasingly not visible, it's all on line and the filters and search parameters play an even larger role in discovery than ever.

I won't argue that a good cover is important, but great content behind that cover is even more important. A good cover may attract one reader but it's content that will start the word of mouth cycle. The same can be said for price, a low price will overcome the resistance people will have for a new or untried product, but it takes performance to bring new buyers.

If either the book cover or price were such big factors then wouldn't we be hearing, "You've got to read this book , the cover is great," or "You've got to read this book, it's so cheap." I think it might be a mistake to spend so much time on factors that are largely flash.

I think readers do want interaction with authors, for some reason signed copies of books even from no names like myself are still popular. While the majority of us are no longer viewing authors as God-like beings, a significant portion of the greater public still views writing a book as an accomplishment. So I can fully agree that personal contact is very powerful.

Another approach I have been considering is buying some car magnets (ones that have your website and book catch phrase). Even better yet buy a couple sets and pay people in other urban areas to put them on their cars. It could add up to a lot of eyes.

I completely agree with Troy, Goodreads has been the best so far. The Giveaways do attract an audience, and you haven't just given your book away to thousands of potential buyers for nothing. It takes a while but it does seem to build an audience.


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