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Name your most successful marketing technique
Kevin, Readers are not excited to read that a writer has had their book professionally edited, or that the cover has been professionally designed. They expect a certain level of professionalism.
What sells is the skill in which the story unfolds through the writing and most readers can get this sense from reading the samples.
I agree that readers won't buy a book just because it is edited because it's not that exciting by itself. But because not all indie published material is as professional as readers expect, I think it is beneficial to let readers know about editors, etc. I put that kind of information after my story's description because it isn't the most important, but I still want the reader to know because I think it adds value.
Book Parties given by family, friends, clients, and then eventually people I met through these events. Talking to people, reading excerpts at my local bookstore. I included at the private events a short, very brief psychic impression, that is I included my other profession. Being a guest on small, but listener appreciated radio shows. The book tours cost - airplane tickets, etc, but tax deducible. Also, free on Amazon for a while really up'd the ebooks. I hope that inspires another writer to give book events. Who sells books? People - you, and inspired "fans".
In my case I have had reviews about the quality of the editing for which I am to blame, hence the decision to re-edit. Once it is re-edited I want new readers and maybe past ones to download an update for their Kindles and perhaps give it a second chance. New readers would also know that the book has improved, whist the story remains
I think it would be appropriate to put a note in the dedication or acknowledgement thanking your editor--this is a quiet way of advertising that it was edited. But putting it either on the title or description smacks of self-publishing amateurism, and I wouldn't recommend that. Basically the closer your book looks to one published by the Big 6, the more readers will be drawn to it and read it.
Philip wrote: "In my case I have had reviews about the quality of the editing for which I am to blame, hence the decision to re-edit. Once it is re-edited I want new readers and maybe past ones to download an up..."How many changes are you going to do? Are you planning on keeping the same ISBN number or releasing it under a new one? If you release it under a new ISBN (as a 2nd edition), you would have the advantage of not having to explain previous reviews that commented on the editing.
Kevin wrote: "Philip wrote: "In my case I have had reviews about the quality of the editing for which I am to blame, hence the decision to re-edit. Once it is re-edited I want new readers and maybe past ones to..."I would not want to mislead anyone by trying to hide my current reviews (which have mostly been good about the plot and storytelling) but disconnecting from the past edition would strike me as a little dishonest. I am yet to see how many changes there might be. This is my first experience of professional editing so I'm already on tenterhooks about the outcome.
I don't want to seem like I'm advocating for dishonesty. But when I was reading about making changes after uploading an ebook, I recall reading somewhere that if anything more than small typo changes were made to an ebook a publication, a new ISBN would be necessary and appropriate because it should be considered a new edition. I don't know that the original reviews would disappear if you state it's a 2nd edition (instead of an entirely new book), but the description of the 2nd edition could include a clear statement that it is has been revised, etc. If the changes are small, a new edition wouldn't be appropriate, but having been through several rounds of editing for each of my stories, the editorial changes were never small.
Kevin wrote: "I don't want to seem like I'm advocating for dishonesty. But when I was reading about making changes after uploading an ebook, I recall reading somewhere that if anything more than small typo chang..."Thanks Kevin, I'll have to see when I get the MS back, I'll check on the Ts and Cs for ISBNs, I don't want to break any rules or conventions
Ooohh...how I would love to see your list, Carmen! Is it a state secret or would you share it?
Re-edited editions do not need new ISBN's. Just released the third re-edited edition of one of mine, which included doubling the pixels on the cover.
Leon wrote: "Re-edited editions do not need new ISBN's. Just released the third re-edited edition of one of mine, which included doubling the pixels on the cover."Thanks for that Leon
J.E. wrote: "Joanne wrote: "It seems to me that the serious writer and the good promoter are seldom found in the same skin. As a writer I want to focus on writing and find the very idea that I also have to prom..."true for me - my latest lay 'in the 'drawer' for 18 months as I hated the business of selling and promoting. Then someone pushed me and I'm glad they did. I hadn't published in about 12 years and it seems now that you need to do much or most of the promo yourself. I'm learning daily, but can anyone tell me what a 'blog tour' is?
I believe a blog tour is when you give interviews on as many blogs as will have you in a given space of time, IOW, instead of FTF bookstore readings, you're doing virtual visits. I could be wrong; anyone?I'm like you, Ross, and others here:I hate doing promo. The idea is revolting to me of going around yakking what a great writer I am and how great my book is. I know that's a simplification, but it's how it feels to me. I sometimes think, "Would Philip Roth do this? Would Doris Lessing?" They would not! Times have changed, but even now the truly great writers don't carry on this way. But what it comes down to is I just want to stay home and write.
I like many others find selling tough, but I don't think it's about telling readers we're great authors. Our job is to help readers learn about what we've written to connect with those who may enjoy our stories.
Kevin: I was exaggerating, but it seems to me there always has to be an element of egotism in self-promotion. We try to write our stuff to make our books sound fantastic, after all. And most of us believe our books ARE fantastic, or we wouldn't put them out there. It's great when I feel that way about my work, but tooting my own horn makes me cringe.
I like to let the work speak for itself but how do you get readers to find your work? That is the question! Has anyone found any success they can share? ~
Seems to me posting excerpts or giving away samples on Amazon is a way for people to discover the work. But they still have to find the excerpts!
Judy wrote: "I think it would be appropriate to put a note in the dedication or acknowledgement thanking your editor--this is a quiet way of advertising that it was edited. But putting it either on the title or..."I agree, it sounds amateurish. Kevin, I don't think there ARE any famous editors, except for Max Perkins, who is long dead.
I just released my first novel last November so I'm still trying to figure out a strategy, but what I'm doing right now is: 1) Free short story, which I released over a year before my novel came out. Although I don't know how many people who download it end up reading it, each download is a possible fan.
2) Readers' Favorite reviews. I did this more to get to some external feedback about my novel than get a couple of reviews.
3) Story Cartel (currently doing this). A website that provides a free download in exchange of for reviews. All of my reviews from this company have been fair. Readers have said what they liked and what they didn't, so potential readers will have a better feeling for my story.
I'm currently considering my next step, but I have a few weeks until Story Cartel is done.
Marcy wrote: "Judy wrote: "I think it would be appropriate to put a note in the dedication or acknowledgement thanking your editor--this is a quiet way of advertising that it was edited. But putting it either on..."I think adding the editor as a contributor should suffice to let readers know the book has been edited, for what that's worth. It's no guarantee of quality.
I've edited several books that people paid a lot to have edited and I still made hundreds of corrections to typos, restructured sentences, removed extraneous/superfluous text, etc.
I don't see it as a marketing technique; it's more of an essential ingredient of a good book to write it the best that you can, then have it edited and proofed to perfection. That will become a post-marketing aspect when people comment on how great your book is. (Rather than saying, "It's a great story - you just have to ignore all the errors." Not that such a thing will prevent sales, or prevent a publisher from signing you - as I've seen happen recently.)
Marcy wrote: "I agree, it sounds amateurish."Obviously, I disagree, but I think we all have to experiment to see what works best for our stories in the rapidly changing publishing world.
I also think that even if a reader isn't interested in the information I'm providing, it's unlikely they'll choose not to purchase my story because I let them know it was professionally edited.
By the way, I am a professional editor, and I'm taking the position that it won't help sales or impress anyone to advertise a book as having been edited by a pro. Editing is basically one of those in-the-background jobs; such work is often unrecognized yet vitally important. There are a million reasons not to boast of being edited: it's expected you'd have an editor (despite the many misguided authors who don't hire one); nobody reads a book just because the grammar is correct; if an editor did any revisions, you really wouldn't want to tell this to readers, since it takes credit away from the writer, not in reality, but in the lay person's perception; lay people, in fact, do not know the first thing about the writing, editing, publishing process, so it's meaningless.There are many more reasons, some already mentioned by others, why it's not a good idea. I mostly wanted to make the point that I'm speaking as a member of the profession and advising downplaying the editor's role!
Marcy wrote: "There are many more reasons, some already mentioned by others, why it's not a good idea. I mostly wanted to make the point that I'm speaking as a member of the profession and advising downplaying the editor's role!"I appreciate that, but my editor likes that I advertise that I worked with her. And she's a great editor so I like giving her the credit she deserves.
Marcy wrote: "By the way, I am a professional editor, and I'm taking the position that it won't help sales or impress anyone to advertise a book as having been edited by a pro. Editing is basically one of those ..."Thanks for that viewpoint Marcy. Yes we all want to be professionally edited, but it is not always affordable. That's for another discussion, but I take your advice regarding my own book descriptions. perhaps I'll just stick to fully revised and reissued
That sounds professional, Philip. Sort of like saying an album is "remastered." I understand about not being able to afford an editor, believe me; I haven't been able to afford one myself--but luckily I swap with a friend. I believe everyone, even an editor, needs one, bc none of us can be objective about our own writing, nor can we always spot the mistakes. I wrote on my blog about this, I think I'll go get the URL and post it here.
I have a question for you guys. I posted my ebook on Smashwords back in October. It's my first piece of work, edited by me three times. The question is this.I've just put it to FREE for awhile in February(Romance Readers), on the Smashwords site. I went to KDP, n I can't have it elsewhere. I'll wait a week n swap it out n give KDP a shot. How is KDP working out vs. Smashwords?
Marcy wrote: "if an editor did any revisions, you really wouldn't want to tell this to readers"It's a job that should go unnoticed, if done well. But it's nice when the author wants to give you credit and list you as the editor. (Except on GR, where it sometimes appears as if you wrote the books you edited.)
Caroline wrote: "How is KDP working out vs. Smashwords? "All of my sales are on Amazon KDP.
I have zero sales on Smashwords, B&N, iBooks or Google. (Too soon to tell on the other channels that SW distributes to. I did these manually and am waiting for the rest to go out. But I changed my book description and lost Premium status for a while. I hate SW.)
On SW though, I set my book for "You set the price" and I've had 12 downloads where each person has opted to pay nothing.
I asked SW if they could arrange so it works like shareware from the old days, meaning, if a person decides to try your book and pays nothing up front, but then ends up loving it, let them come back later and pay what they feel it was worth, at least up to the SRP.
I was told that's a good idea and it would be passed along. But as it is now, if a person really wanted to pay for the book they took for free, they couldn't.
Marcy wrote: "Here is the URL for "Every Writer Deserves an Editor:http://marcysbookbuster.wordpress.com..."
Right on, Marcy.
I agree with everything you said, and I love your goal as an editor. And you have the wisdom to mention that not everything the editor recommends is right all the time.
I just explained to someone yesterday that on their manuscript, I made corrections, improvements, and recommendations.
Corrections should be considered non-negotiable. Improvements should be accepted. Recommendations are either what I would do if it was my story, or I'm not sure what the author was trying to say.
Now I just wish I could color code these three types of edits.
Philip wrote: "Marcy wrote: "By the way, I am a professional editor, and I'm taking the position that it won't help sales or impress anyone to advertise a book as having been edited by a pro. Editing is basically..."I agree with Phillip.
I haven't spent much time researching editors, but my one instance was $.035/word. All the books I've written are over 100K words. For something I did to see if I could write a book, $3,500 is kind of steep. Be a little different if I was making some money from my books, which wasn't really my top priority. So, I spent a lot of time reading and researching other really popular writers, less focused on their story and more so on the sentence structures, styles, etc. What I did discover is there are a lot of "Edited" books out there that are atrocious. I also question the impact an Editor has on the writers style. I came across two different authors, edited by the same person ... the writing style were very similar (too similar). Sometimes I wonder if writers put too much on the editor, submitting the manuscript to let the editor clean up. I can see the benefit. I'm glad I spent the time to find my style, and I did ... I must have edited my first book 40 times, and I've kept every revision. The evolution is staggering. I now find it hard to read other edited/published books, I find too may anomalies (I found one very popular book, edited/published - 1st person used "I" or a derivative 181-times in 5-pages. Very distracting). My point is ... editing doesn't necessarily make the book, the writing does (story, characters, style). If the writer takes the time, they might actually create something good, all their own. I'm self published, and my books, regardless if their good or not, are all mine.
Edward wrote: "Corrections should be considered non-negotiable. Improvements should be accepted. Recommendations are either what I would do if it was my story, or I'm not sure what the author was trying to say.And right on Edward! I like that formula, I think I'll use it myself.
RabidReader wrote: "Philip wrote: "Marcy wrote: "By the way, I am a professional editor, and I'm taking the position that it won't help sales or impress anyone to advertise a book as having been edited by a pro. Editi..."ABsolutely true that it isn't the editing but the writing that makes the book. That said, you still need an editor to catch errors. That price quote you got is quite high. Editors' fees are all over the board, and I always have a hard time knowing what to charge. But it's nowhere near $3500 for an average size book--though yours is much longer than average. I usually charge by the page not the word, and give the client a flat estimate.
Um, Philip, it appears you and Rabid Reader are one and the same. Is this correct?
RabidReader wrote: " I also question the impact an Editor has on the writers style"On the contrary, one of my concerns as an editor, and having my name listed as the editor comes from the fact that I don't touch the author's style, and that sometimes extends to the point of them insisting on run-ons and fragments as part of their style.
In the same way that one can write in another's universe, an editor should edit with the author's voice when proposing changes and making corrections.
Edward wrote: "In the same way that one can write in another's universe, an editor should edit with the author's voice when proposing changes and making corrections."This is so true. A good editor IMO proposes edits that are consistent with the author's voice, instead of rewriting the manuscript in the editor's voice.
Hi Kevin going back to promoting your book on Amazon. I published my first novel in November too and like you I am working on a marketing strategy as I go. I tried the kdp countdown promotion in early December and I was pleased with it. I will do it again in February when my book becomes eligible again. You can only do it if you're in KDP Select which means you only publish with Amazon.
I think giving your short story away for free is a great idea and one I would like to try. I thought I read that Amazon only allows you to give books free for a certain amount of time. Do you know if this is correct?
I think giving your short story away for free is a great idea and one I would like to try. I thought I read that Amazon only allows you to give books free for a certain amount of time. Do you know if this is correct?
Johanna wrote: "I thought I read that Amazon only allows you to give books free for a certain amount of time. Do you know if this is correct? "Johanna, In the same place that you setup your countdown, that's where you setup your free days. You can have 5 free days everything 3 months.
Edward wrote: "Johanna wrote: "In the same place that you setup your countdown"Click the little arrows next to "Kindle Countdown Deal" and you'll see "Free Book Promotion"
From the Bookshelf, look to the right of the title under KDP Select and you'll see Manage Benefits and Info. Clicking info will tell you your enrollment date into KDP Select so you'll know when your time period for another 5 free days starts again.
Thanks everyone, this is an interesting thread. I've always used editors, but don't mention them in my books. I do mention the designer and cover designer. As regards marketing, my best sales came from a story extract in Kindle Nation. I haven't seen huge jumps after blog interviews, but hope it gets me some name recognition. Most of my sales come from Amazon, and they have slackened off in the lady year. I have very few from SM and ibook sales on Apple are once in the blue moon. However, I think the iBook editions look best.
I'm considering a KDP countdown campaign, but think this needs to be mentioned on sites that announce ebook offers. I'd appreciate recommendations for such sites.
Thanks, es
One bigass promo with Bookbub sent my sales up bigtime. The effects are still happening weeks later.
Marcy wrote: "Um, Philip, it appears you and Rabid Reader are one and the same. Is this correct?"Not at all.
LMAO. How on earth did you come to that conclusion.
My brother from another Mother.
Edward wrote: "RabidReader wrote: " I also question the impact an Editor has on the writers style"On the contrary, one of my concerns as an editor, and having my name listed as the editor comes from the fact th..."
Excellent. Good to know. If I ever make any money on the writing, and can actually afford an editor, do you mind if I contact you?
Interesting conversation on editing, which we all agree is important. Having had my work edited like many, toward the end of the publishing process, I have two observations: one is that I personally would have benefitted from having the editor involved earlier in the process. Editors see things that I didn't, and some of those things relate to themes, reasons for writing, the "big ideas" that drive the work, and those concerns are best addressed up front.The other observation is that at the end of the day, it is the writer who has to decide which of the changes to make, be these couched as suggestions, recommendations or anything else. That's because when the book comes out, the author is responsible for what is there, and cannot evade that responsibility. I had some qualms leading up to the final draft but when the time came, the decisions on what to keep and what to ditch from the editor's suggestions came rather easily, or at least, easier than I expected.
I'm finding this thread far more interesting then I expected, in more ways then I expected ... Thank you Marcy (made my lousy day.). Originally, when I started writing, and actually had something to edit, I was embarrassed with how bad a writer I was. Now this wasn't a surprise, I knew I sucked, but I didn't write for any other reason but to see if I could put the words down. So the thought of using an editor was out of pride (or lack there of). I really liked the story I wrote, so my only option at the time was to actually figure out how to write as an author. For me that was the right decision. I study a lot of writers, their style, everything. I spent the time editing myself, and I found my voice ... that doesn't necessarily mean my voice can sing, but at least I'm not embarrassed. So, now I have something to edit, but now its a matter of cost.I don't think anyone would turn down editing if they had access to it ... I wouldn't now, but before absolutely. I think the easy excuse for not getting an editor is cost, but that might not be the only reason.
Robert wrote: "The other observation is that at the end of the day, it is the writer who has to decide which of the changes to make,"Definitely. It's our story, so we have to make the final decisions.
I think that mentioning the name of the editor in the description might be inviting certain readers to look for, and gleefully report, any errors in their review. I had one of my books professionally edited, but a sharp-eyed friend found a few minor errors that had been missed. You can add 'edited by' in the front matter along with 'cover artist' etc.
Most people thank their ed's in the acknowledgments.
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I hadn't heard about it before either, and to be honest, I have no data to support that it does help sell books because I'm so new to publishing. (I published my first novel last November.)
However, I can't see letting people know that it's been professionally edited (and has a professional cover) hurting sales, and I suspect that as readers become more savvy about looking for quality indie books, they will want to know if something has been professionally edited.
I could be wrong. :)
(Just FYI, my editor is Arlene Prunkl, but I don't spend enough time in editing circles to know who the famous editors are. Famous or not, I highly recommend her because she's a great editor.)