July 2011 - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

[V.M.H]

It’s great to see some good discussions going. I’ve just finished reading the book and everyone’s comments. I must disagree with Kim on the account that “McMurphy was trying to help the others but only really to help himself. He was only working to gain for himself and to bite his thumb at authority.” If this was the case he would have left any time he had an opportunity. From what I can see Mc Murphy was the only force providing some cure for those poor souls. And he did help Bibbit! He gave Bibbit a few gifts that were much greater than all his existence (including his theoretical future existence if he didn’t encounter Mc Murphy in his life). Nurse Ratched was the one who killed Bibbit. She, as a professional, could foresee the outcome of her threats but she wanted to win at any cost. Besides, it’s clear that the staff didn’t really care about the patiens’ health and wellbeing. And this leads me to the things I found confronting and at the same time interesting in this book.
I have a feeling that there’s always a wall between mentally ill (or perceived as such) and the rest of the population. I tried to place myself in the Mc Murphy’s spot and I wasn’t sure I would be able to treat the rest of the crew as normal people, but he did and that’s why I respect him. He was just this cool guy who had the confidence and balls to stand up to the system even though he realised that he wouldn’t make it in the end. Things the patients (and the doctor) gained during the fishing trip and during the party cannot be compared with anything else they had had in their lives and this, in my opinion, matters more than living longer and following all the routines in the hospital. My favourite place in the book was when the Chief wanted to touch Mc Murphy who was in the bed next to his. How he analysed why he wanted to touch him and came to the conclusion “I just wanted to touch him because he’s who he is.”

On a different matter, Xeni writes: “Mhh, just because I'm afraid doesn't mean you have to be!
For me it's more like this book is a childhood memory, and reading it again migh rewrite part of that. I always want to remember that feeling of icy shivers down my spine while lying on the grass in the burning sun and contemplating life as a mentally ill patient!”
I’m with you on this one. If something feels good in your memory, don’t read it again. I apply this even to some people I new long time ago and don’t want to see them again to keep them as I remember them, not what they are like now…

[V.]

I'm glad to see someone else who didn't think McMurphy was only out for Number One!

I don't think he's meant to be read as super philanthropic, but at the same time I don't think he was unconcerned for the others, or willing to subjugate their needs in order to fulfill his own desires.

I thought McMurphy was pretty awesome, and that his real downfall was his failure to appreciate the very real power Nurse Ratched held over him by way of lobotomy. He pushed just that bit too hard and finally paid the ultimate price for it.

--But then I suppose there are some that would say you can't maintain your ingetrity if you don't push those boundaries, regardless of the consequence you may pay.

[V.M.H]

Thanks Victoria. The other interesting aspect was how McMurphy started to feel tired during the fishing trip and afterwards while the Acutes and the Chief felt more empowered. This made me realise that McMurphy was on the way out. He was always like a foreign object in the hospital; you could feel that he didn't belong to any group, like some sort of unreal force...

[V.]

I didn't see that bit of foreshadowing on the fishing trip for what it was- thanks for pointing it out! It casts the whole adventure in a rather poignant light when you think about it that way.

[Kevin]

I work in a group home for adults who have developmental disability. As I read this book, I considered the way we see people with disability now compared to many years ago. Before, it was unclear as to the goals for helping people with mental disability or illness. Do we merely provide them a safe haven to live out the rest of their existence, or do we aide them in finding independence and improve their quality of life? I feel that Ratched was less concerned about improving quality of life and independence than she was about keeping order and maintaining her control. McMurphy, on the other hand, did not see the necessity for rules and order. He had the right idea, however, about the need for individuals to feel they are working toward improving their lives and gaining as much independence as possible. I know of students and adults I have helped over the years that need a very stable environment and routine in order to function. Routine is a common necessity for individuals with certain disabilities. I feel that coping with routine changes can be taught which can lead to an improvement of life quality. McMurphy and Ratched needed to meet in the middle somewhere, but then we would not have had the great conflict throughout this story.

[Mary, Quiet Observer]

I was really saddened by the way the staff never made any attempt to communicate with the chief. Not being able to hear doesn't mean you can't communicate in otherways. No wonder the guy had felt like he had shrunk. It made me very sad.

[Mary, Quiet Observer]

Obviously he wasn't even really dead, which the lack of attempt to communicate with him that much sadder. People need to feel as though they are worth knowing

[Michael, Mod Prometheus]

Deaf*

[Melki]

I thought some of you Ken Kesey fans might be interested in seeing this:

http://www.magictripmovie.com/

[Carycleo]

Kevin wrote: "I work in a group home for adults who have developmental disability. As I read this book, I considered the way we see people with disability now compared to many years ago. ..."

That's a really interesting perspective. Ratched and McMurphy are the two extremes, for sure. That helps me understand why I couldn't really see them as villain and hero on re-reading the book.

[Graham]

I thouroughly enjoyed this book, it was full of humour, likable characters, and didnt pull any punches (especially the general idea of how mental patients are treated, at least back then, as well as shock shop. I watched a doco called "The Lobotomist" last week which reminded me of this book). McMurphy and Ratched were great sparring partners.

Also, my copy of the book has Kesey's sketches littered throughout the book, from his own time on the wards (cant find the exact cover on here)

[Lisa]

Another awesome choice, & SO much better than the movie. They left so much out when it was adapted to screen. I read this years ago :)