Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
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Things That Really Confused you in this book.
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Gemma
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Jul 05, 2011 12:25PM
Harry has flashes of Voldemort's thoughts when he is feeling highly emotional or his mind is very concentrated, the door was obviously of great consequence to him and he was thinking about it a lot, therefore Harry felt it was important and dreamt about it a lot not realising that that he was feeling the importance that Voldemort was feeling rather than his own. The fact he dreamt about it a lot anyway caused more and more intrigue to Harry and he was dwelling on it's possible importance causing him to dream about it even more.
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I believe that Voldemort is so obsessed with trying to get the prophecy that Harry sees his almost constant thoughts about the door, and the department of mysteries. Once Voldemort is aware of this connection, he takes advantage of it to lure Harry to the department of mysteries to retrieve the prophecy, because only one of the people named in the prophecy (in this case Harry and Voldemort) can take the prophecy from its place.
The movie only added the spell that Avada Kedavra (sp) that hit Sirius. In the book, it was a regular spell that sent him back through the veil.Which, in my mind, signifies the Doors of Death. Harry is attracted to it and hears voices from it because he's lost so many people already. And when Sirius falls through it, he joins the dead as one of them.
Just a thought.
Juliet wrote: "least fav in the series"I'm not sure which one is my favorite. I really like them all. I do like the revolution in the book though.
Rowling doesn't specify what the spell is, but I believe it was a Stunning Spell, and that Sirius died WHEN he fell through the veil.Don't quote me on this because I can't remember exactly what I read, but JKR said somewhere that if one steps through the veil, they die. The closer they walk towards the veil, the harder it is for them to resist it. Or something. Pretty sure she said that you die, though. And I think that's why Lupin held Harry back - not because he was trying to be comforting or whatever but because if Harry stepped through the veil after Sirius, he'd die too. Or something.
I don't think that JKR did ever describe what exactly happens through that veil. That's why we're discussing it, and why it's in the department of mysteries: no one knows for sure.
Firza wrote: "Hey, i still confused about Harry Potter's repeated dream. Does Voldemort do it on purpose? I didn't see anything like trap until Harry dreaming about Sirius."yes
What the... He was HIT by avada kedavra. Doesn't need to say that anywhere, that is the only way of killing. The first beam was RED not the second one xD. He died before falling there, obviously. That thingy didn't kill him.
Again, JKR doesn't specify that the jet of light was green, therefore it could have been either.
Christina wrote: "Again, JKR doesn't specify that the jet of light was green, therefore it could have been either."the point is, she doesn't need to specify coz that is obvious.
Filipe wrote: "Christina wrote: "Again, JKR doesn't specify that the jet of light was green, therefore it could have been either."the point is, she doesn't need to specify coz that is obvious."
Well, I don't agree. I believe it was a stunning spell, and Sirius was killed when he fell through the veil. But that's okay. We don't have to agree.
Direct Quote from the book. Page 805 American Hardcover: "Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: He was laughing at her. "Come on, you can do better than that!" he yelled, his voice, his voice echoing around the cavernous room.
The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest.
The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.
Harry released Neville, thought he was unaware of doing so. He was jumping down the steps again,pulling out his wand, as Dumbledore turned to the dias too.
It seemed to take Sirius as age to fall. His body curved in a graceful arc as he sank backward through the ragged veil hanging from the arch....
And Harry saw the look of mingled fear and suprise on his godfather's wasted once-hansome face as he fell through the ancient doorway..."
I don't really know. Like others said before, color of the spell was not specified. He did laugh at her saying she could do better. It didn't seem like it was an instant death, but to Harry it took ages for him to fall. But his eyes widend with shock, and Harry saw a look of mingled fear and suprise on his face.
Thanks Carita for typing that out. I still think it was Avada Kedavra that killed him, but I don't think we'll ever really know.
P.S. - How dare JKR write such a devastating and heartbreaking scene so beautifully?? It's just not fair.
"His body curved in a graceful arc as he sank backward through the ragged veil hanging from the arch....
And Harry saw the look of mingled fear and suprise on his godfather's wasted once-hansome face as he fell through the ancient doorway..."
Such subtle describing words but they give the perfect, so sad vision in my head.
It is probably the gate to another dimension... oh, no, wait, that's Star Gate.
from what book is the star gate????
Carita wrote: "Direct Quote from the book. Page 805 American Hardcover: "Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: He was laughing at her. "Come on, you can do better than that!" he yelled, his voic..."
maybe it was in slow motion
@lydia I thought using a literary comparison was appropriate on a book discussion page. I know few people who have neither read the books or seen the films who plan to in the future so weighed that it was unlikely to be a 'spoiler' as the comparison I made is a well known element of the LOTR trilogy.Hope you do read LOTR though they're absolutely divine for the patient and meticulous reader.
Kate wrote: "Thanks Carita for typing that out. I still think it was Avada Kedavra that killed him, but I don't think we'll ever really know.
P.S. - How dare JKR write such a devastating and heartbreaking s..."
it's not J.K. Rowling's fault?
Dondre wrote: "Um.........GOT IT!
Harry
saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: he was laughing at her.
'Come on, you can do better than that!' he yelled, his voice echoing around the
cavernous room.
The s..."
but it doesn't say what color light the second light was. I always assumed she tried to stun him with the red light and since he said "you can do better than that," she took his words to heart and quickly used Avada Kedavra, killing him instantly.
Arti - It's all JK Rowling's fault. As much as I love this series, it breaks my heart everytime. I just read the scene with Dobby in HP7 and bawled for like 15+ pages. She has built up this amazing cast of characters and then breaks your heart with each and every one of them (which I do understand, there are casualties in war). She kills me with her grace in writing these horrible, heartbreaking scenes. So, essentially, it is all her fault.
AHA!!!Not from The Order of the Phoenix but:
"'But that's my point!' said Hermione. 'This is the wand that tortured Neville's mum and dad, and who knows how many other people? THIS IS THE WAND THAT KILLED SIRIUS!'" (Page 520, HP and the Deathly Hallows)
Not necessarily conclusive evidence, but JKR does claim that it was the wand and its owner who killed Sirius, not the veil.
Kate wrote: "AHA!!!Not from The Order of the Phoenix but:
"'But that's my point!' said Hermione. 'This is the wand that tortured Neville's mum and dad, and who knows how many other people? THIS IS THE WAND T..."
that seems conclusive enough for me, lol. Maybe she should have put the color of the second light in there to clarify :)
Kate wrote: "Arti - It's all JK Rowling's fault. As much as I love this series, it breaks my heart everytime. I just read the scene with Dobby in HP7 and bawled for like 15+ pages. She has built up this amazing..."She did to not make the books predicable. You wouldn't think that Bellatrix would die by Molly. You would never think Dobby would die cause he's a house elf. Even though it's sad, it's still a really good series and she must have a reason for writing it
Arti - I'm not denying that it's an amazing series, or that she did a great job keeping lifetime readers on their toes with the unexpectedness. I'm just saying it's not fair that she's soooo good at it. She creates such beauty in these scenes of grief and devastation; it's just hard to cognitively appreciate her talent while emotionally I'm broken because of my attachment to the characters!
gonig to the first premeire of the last hp 7 part 2 movie!!!!!YAYYY!
Kate wrote: "Arti - I'm not denying that it's an amazing series, or that she did a great job keeping lifetime readers on their toes with the unexpectedness. I'm just saying it's not fair that she's soooo good a..."well.....i was sad when Dobby and Hedwig died, but then Harry and the others were sad too, so it was like you were with them and then when they let go and accepted it I did to. But now if Hermione died, I would hate J.K. Rowling
To the people debating how Sirius died: J.K. never said that Avada Kedavra was the only way to kill a person, only the most effective. The curse that hit Hermoine would have killed her if it had been spoken aloud, at least that's the impression J.K. gives. And Stunning spells, I'm sure, are not the only ones to give off red light. We may not know all the spells, but that doesn't mean they don't exist (figuratively). Yet, the veil does make things tricky. I always thought that the dead would pass through the veil and vanish, but now that I think about it, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would it be there if only the dead could pass through? No, there must be something more. And yet, I believe that Sirius was killed by a curse, not the veil, mostly because of how it was portrayed. Sirius' expression was that of someone who had been killed, (with the laughter still almost frozen on his face) not of someone who had been Stunned or otherwise. Now that is completley my own impression, but I believe it was truly Bellatrix's spell that killed Sirius.
Emma wrote: "To the people debating how Sirius died: J.K. never said that Avada Kedavra was the only way to kill a person, only the most effective. The curse that hit Hermoine would have killed her if it had b..."It was a stunning spell, stunning spells stun you (facial expression). They also make you fall straight backwards or forwards. The veil did kill him. He passed into the other world. Bellatrix could be said to of killed him because her spell pushed him into the veil but the cause of death was the veil not the spell. Otherwise there would have been no point of having the veil there in the first place.
Something weird in Harry Potter to me was that James or Lily didn't decide to be the secret keeper. At first I thought this was because the magic made it so it had to be someone not living in the house who was the secret keeper but in the 7th book the heads of the households are all the secret keepers. Weird, surely if one have them had been secret keeper they could have just locked themselves inside and hoped for the best.
i thought that in the movie the time turner was really confusing.
Puddlesplash wrote: "i thought that in the movie the time turner was really confusing."The whole time travel thing is kind of confusing, but I didn't think the time-turner itself was too confusing. I mean it all makes sense, but you can't think too hard about it.
The O.W.L.S., to a certain point, and why Ron never punched Harry in the face for being an a-hole throughout the entire book.
What about the O.W.Ls? And it would be totally unfair if Ron punched Harry in the face for being an "a-hole" because Harry never took action against Ron's superior lack of tact and respect. If anyone needs a punch in the face it is Ron. And Cho. Well, and Umbridge goes without saying. She should have her fingernails removed or something equally painful.
The different subjects and stuff were a bit confusing (and unnecessary?). Ron does need to be punch, true. Not Cho, at all. Harry needed it more in the fifth for being such a selfish, insensitive a-hole. I would have, and it would have felt good.
Yes, Harry was a bit insensitive, not to mention angsty, but that was half the fun for me! I loved all of his outbursts; they made me laugh so hard! And when it comes to Cho, I guess half of it was really Harry's own lack of tact and common sense. It was quite obvious that he had no idea what he was doing though, and Cho should've had a cooler head about it all. How she manages to be in Ravenclaw is beyond me. But, that's her character, I guess, and there is no changing that. I will always stress that the way the author portrays a character is how they are meant to be, even if it is frustrating at times.
Carita wrote: "Direct Quote from the book. Page 805 American Hardcover: "Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix's jet of red light: He was laughing at her. "Come on, you can do better than that!" he yelled, his voic..."
From shock to "Harry saw a look of mingled fear and suprise on his face." To me it sounds as though he realized that he was going to die. Literally at deaths door.
Fwit wrote: "Emma wrote: "Sirius is killed (Belatrix's Avada Kedavra) before he falls into the veil. Rowling isn't great with keeping colors straight. For instance, dragon's blood is green in the 4th and red in..."
But you hear her shout the spell and later she shouts "I killed Sirius Black I killed Sirius Black! You Coming To Get Me?!" to Harry
But you hear her shout the spell and later she shouts "I killed Sirius Black I killed Sirius Black! You Coming To Get Me?!" to Harry
Fwit wrote: "HAHAHAHAno
we're actually trying to be sure whether or not Sirius was hit by Avada Kedavra or a stunning spell...
I'm sure it was a Stunning Spell."
In the MOVIE Sirius is hit by Avada Kedavra, in the BOOK it doesn't say what he's hit with. But Harry is convinced he'll come back, which leads me to believe it was just a generic curse and an AK. I don't think Harry would be so sure about Sirius coming back if the curse was a killing curse.
Emma wrote: "Yes, Harry was a bit insensitive, not to mention angsty, but that was half the fun for me! I loved all of his outbursts; they made me laugh so hard! And when it comes to Cho, I guess half of it wa..."I guess it depends on the reader. I'm the type of person who would have given Harry's a darn good piece of my mind if he was acting like an a-hole all time like he did in the fifth. Of course, if Harry were real, I wouldn't be his friend in the first place.
I think Rowling's characterization of Cho is very flawed in the way she writes Cho in a very negative light and doesn't give the readers the chance to see anything good about her (though I was able to read between the lines and Harry's idiocy to see a few). Cho was understandably going through some emotions just like Harry was, and I felt her crying on the date and anger at Harry's sudden outburst about seeing Hermione was very understandable. So, I couldn't get mad at her.
Dani wrote: "Emma wrote: "Yes, Harry was a bit insensitive, not to mention angsty, but that was half the fun for me! I loved all of his outbursts; they made me laugh so hard! And when it comes to Cho, I guess ..."That's a good point. And I'm not saying that Cho is a bad person, not at all. She obviously has her redeeming moments. I guess I'm just Team Harry (ugh, Twilight) for most things. He does do plenty of things that make me want to slap him though. I guess I just understand him best so I also understand where he is coming from. But you are right about Cho; she is expressed in a rather negative light after the 5th one and she has suffered a lot.
Tenae wrote: "I think the archway is like a doorway to lost souls, or something. No matter what curse hit Sirius, he fell through the archway; Harry heard voices inside that archway, and so did Luna. I think the..."Ah, interesting theory. But, could Neville hear the voices too? He also had seen someone die. I don't remember what his reaction was.
This is actually my fav in the series. Only because the Order is more involved in this one. Loved what happened to Umbridge towards the end and how the Weasley twins left the school, (thought that part was funny).
Tenae wrote: "Emma wrote: "Tenae wrote: "I think the archway is like a doorway to lost souls, or something. No matter what curse hit Sirius, he fell through the archway; Harry heard voices inside that archway, a..."That's exactly what I thought. I felt it was pretty clear.
Also, when the movie came out and Bellatrix sent an Avada Kedavra at Sirius I was PISSED, because he doesn't die by an unforgivable curse in the book. Avada is green, and the book does not say the ray of light was green. I always assumed it was a stunner, and he fell backwards through the veil.
I think part of why JK did it that way was because she wanted the readers to have that feeling of "He could come back! He is just on the other side of the veil! HE COULD COME BACK!" with Harry. That wouldn't have been possible if he was killed before he hit the veil.
at least, those were my feelings. :)
One thing about TOTPh is the fact that Denis Creevy is allowed to go into Hogsmeade even though he is only a second year and only third years and above are allowed to go. Anyone else think that this is a huge error by Rowling?
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