July 2012 Read: The Case of Charles Dexter Ward

[Jason]

Call of Cthulhu is definitely one of his best! That and Rats in the Wall. But I think that Nora said that she didn't like Lovecraft's style. If that's the case, she won't like anything else by him.

[Simon]

Nora also said she didn't find that story particularly scary. I don't think anyone would suggest that "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" is anywhere near his scariest story, would they?

[Oscar]

I think "The Colour Out of Space" is one of his creepiest stories.

[Tressa]

Oscar wrote: "That sticks out in my mind since I have felt the same way when walking by an old and somewhat creepy Victorian house. However, we live in different times, so I wouldn't dare just knock at some random person's house and have the cops be called on me, lol! ..."

Or get hammered on the head and stuffed in a deep freeze.

[Aloha]

Oscar, when can I make an appointment for a psychoanalysis with you? I do have an obsession with chubby Italian men.

[Aloha]

Simon, well said.

[Aloha]

Did you note Lovecraft's contemptuous tone toward the African race speckled here and there in the book? I don't know whether he's particularly racist, or it's more of the general attitude of that time. I think it's the general attitude.

[Simon]

Lovecraft is known for being a bit of a racist. To a degree that cannot be merely excused by the time in which he wrote. Even for his time he was quite racist. Personally, I have never known this to intrude too much into his stories but I understand it does manifest itself from time to time.

As for this particular story, I cannot remember it well enough to comment.

[Jason]

Oscar wrote: "I think "The Colour Out of Space" is one of his creepiest stories."

I forgot that one. The Colour Out of Space is, perhaps, my favorite by Lovecraft!

[Jason]

Lovecraft was a racist, and it this ugliness does peek its head up in his fiction every once in a while, but this was simply very common for the time period. Lovecraft also wasn't alone. There are other writers of the time and earlier who were much worse.

It is said that by the end of his life he wasn't as racist as he was when he was younger. That he was able to grow, even if a only little, shows to me that he was just a product of his time period, and that if he were alive today, he'd probably hate racism.

[Scott]

Calling Lovecraft a racist is harsh, I think. He was a sheltered man who was only at home in a certain setting, and he resented the elements that were causing it to change from what he knew and was comfortable with. Unrealistic, perhaps, but not unnatural.

[Jason]

I think his aunts had a big influence on his racism. I think his aunts had a big influence on a lot of his life, including his marriage to Sonya.

[Tressa]

OK. People might think less of me for saying this, but I know people--of ALL colors--who all have some racial tendencies, but that doesn't make them bad people. We don't live in a vacuum and we're not all 100% pure when it comes to dealing with the people in the world. We bring our own unique life experiences to the views we hold.

I have some relatives where racism was passed down through each generation, but this doesn't mean they're not good people.

[Jason]

I love the part in Charles Dexter Ward where Ward comes back from Europe. As he's traveling through Providence, he's soaking in the sites so familiar to him. It makes me think of when Lovecraft returned from New York from his failed marriage to Sonya. How good he felt, or at least how it was described in H.P. Lovecraft: A Life.

I really like the part that comes next, when Ward locks himself up in his attic room with his occult books. His parents hear weird voices, among other things, coming from up there until until the day comes when Ward is asked to move out and his mother is forced to go away for the safety of her sanity.

This part also plays a big part in the story and is important to remember.

[Scott]

Everyone's a Little Bit Racist

[Eileen]

Jason wrote: "I love the part in Charles Dexter Ward where Ward comes back from Europe. As he's traveling through Providence, he's soaking in the sites so familiar to him. It makes me think of when Lovecraft ret..."

That's the part I'm at right now. I don't know why, I laughed out loud when Charles mother
left and they said to write her only positive
letters. Maybe because I could use a postive
letter. Remember writing letters or having a pen pal?

Sorry, got off track.

Being that this is my first Lovecraft I have to say, I'm really liking it. It reminds me of a Dark Shadows episode.

[Scott]

I used to love writing letters (real ones).

[Tressa]

Scott wrote: "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist"

Love it!

[Eileen]

Scott, catchy tune...I'll being humming it all night.

I also miss writing letters! All those years of beautiful penmanship gone to waste.

[Jason]

I've never been very good at writing letters. My hand cramps up really easily. I think I grip the pen too hard.

Writing letters was something else Lovecraft did and did well. He wrote so many letters it would be impossible to print them all. I think there is somewhere between 75,000 and 100,000 letters he wrote to various correspondences, family, fellow writers, etc

[Jason]

I'm glad you're liking Charles Dexter Ward, Eileen! I'm always happy to see another Lovecraft convert. :) If you like this one, then I highly recommend some of the stories we've already mentioned above. The Colour Out of Space is a really creepy and awesome read. Rats in the Wall is great. So is Call of Cthulhu of course.

If you thought Charles Ward was strange at all before, it's about to pick up! And then we find out what was going on behind closed doors...

[Aloha]

Sorry, but I don't agree that racism should be an accepted, normal thing, and we should all do a song and dance about it.

[Tressa]

You didn't like In Living Color? Laugh at Eddie Murphy or Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock when they joke about "their people"? I think that we can laugh about our differences and the stereotypes of our own cultures. Just because people find humor in these doesn't mean we approve of crimes against races such as lynchings and mass exterminations.

[Nora aka Diva]

Simon wrote: "Nora also said she didn't find that story particularly scary. I don't think anyone would suggest that "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" is anywhere near his scariest story, would they?"

Like the part where the Dr finds the creature in the hole in the ground, the first image that came to mind was something out of Full Metal Alchemist. that just gave me the giggles.

[Nora aka Diva]

Aloha wrote: "Sorry, but I don't agree that racism should be an accepted, normal thing, and we should all do a song and dance about it."

I am with you on this one.

[Eileen]

Jason wrote: "I've never been very good at writing letters. My hand cramps up really easily. I think I grip the pen too hard.

Writing letters was something else Lovecraft did and did well. He wrote so many let..."

That's amazing! That's why it's sad people don't write letters any more. Those thousands of letters would be interesting to read.

[Eileen]

Jason wrote: "I'm glad you're liking Charles Dexter Ward, Eileen! I'm always happy to see another Lovecraft convert. :) If you like this one, then I highly recommend some of the stories we've already mentioned a..."

I definitely will!

[Aloha]

The problem with accepting it as a normal thing, that it is okay to insinuate that Polish people are stupid with jokes, that black people are dishonest, etc., etc., is that it is a mental terrorism on a race. If somebody constantly reminds you that you ought to be stupid, or dishonest, or geeky because of your race, then it does wear you down. Sure, stereotype happens. Sure, people put down their own race. But I'm not going to celebrate it as something to sing and dance about. I think it is a shame that it has to be that way, that people are fooled into thinking that it is okay, that it is not something we should refrain from doing.

[Jason]

I don't think we should accept it in todays world, but we can't judge Lovecraft's work on his racism. We also can't judge him because of the time period he comes from. Its an ugly part of history, but you can't just pretend that it doesn't exist. If anything, we should learn from it and move on.

[Jason]

Eileen, 75,000 letters is a lot of writing. It would be interesting to read them.

Every once in a while you'll find one of these letters for sale on ebay. They go for thousands of dollars. And to think the man died in poverty. LOL

[Aloha]

I'm not referencing Lovecraft, since he is a product of his times. I'm talking about today. Yes, racism does exist and I'm not going to pretend it doesn't. But I would not be proud of it or shirk it off as something that we should accept.

[Gatorman]

Tressa wrote: "You didn't like In Living Color? Laugh at Eddie Murphy or Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock when they joke about "their people"? I think that we can laugh about our differences and the stereotypes of ou..."

I would agree with that. There is a big difference between societal racism and cultural jokes on race told by comedians, IMO.

[Oscar]

Aloha wrote: Aloha | 4149 comments Oscar, when can I make an appointment for a psychoanalysis with you? I do have an obsession with chubby Italian men.

An obsession with chubby Italian men? Don't we all. ;)

[Oscar]

As for the topic of racism, well, yeah, Lovecraft does have a reputation of writing less than proper descriptions of characters of different racial or ethnic backgrounds. However, Charles Dexter Ward is far from his most offensive story.

I don't know. He was a product of his time, but he was also nuts, lol, and just seemed to have a fear of the unknown, which is obviously one of the recurring themes in his work.

I have gotten to the point that I am able to take the racism in Lovecraft's stories with a grain of salt and move on. It's not to say that I condone such attitudes, but for the most part, the bulk of Lovecraft's stories do not dwell on racism.

[Oscar]

Oh, and something else, when I first read it and reading it now, I am amused at the fact that Ward pretty much hides out, studies his occult books, and makes his parents worry. This amuses me because like many adolescents I used to spend a lot of time alone in my room and my parents used to think that I was crazy or using drugs or who knows what else, lol! The only difference is that Ward isn't just acting like the typical young man, but rather is actually engaging in creepy shenanigans and not just doing something like listening to goth music.

[Jason]

I totally agree, Oscar! Very well said.

[Aloha]

A family friend of my ex's, who is of Polish heritage, is a retired teacher. There's a huge Polish community in the area, and Polish jokes abound. Whenever somebody would make a Polish joke, he would slap his hand down and tell that person to stop it. I enjoyed and made Polish jokes myself, since I grew up with them in books, etc. I really enjoy jokes, and at first thought he was being a party pooper. Then I got to thinking about it, and I realized that every time you make a joke insinuating that Polish people are stupid, you might as well say Polish people are stupid, if you omit the funny out of it. If you were the person in which people and reminders kept on telling you you're stupid, it grates on you. Why should you have to sit there and accept those jokes if it was directed at your group, just because it's commonplace, or was said among your own group?

I realized that jokes that put down a group of people are not necessary and has hostile undertones. I can have fun with other type of jokes, and it's not going to take anything away from my life.

[Greg]

Jason wrote: "That's an interesting story, Greg! I'd love to excavate a seventeenth-century graveyard with fellow horror and Lovecraft fans, too!"

I can heartily recommend it! Regrettably, I had to leave the dig a couple of weeks before it was completed (plane to catch) so I only got to trowel through some grave soil, find a coffin nail or two and identify a narrow trench that had been dug in the seventeenth century to delineate the edge of a grave plot. However, I'm not sure if the others got to escape the dig once they reached human remains....

11811 wrote: "Jason wrote: "That's an interesting story, Greg! I'd love to excavate a seventeenth-century graveyard with fellow horror and Lovecraft fans, too!"

We should organize a HA field trip!"

Cool idea! Know any graveyards just demanding to be dug up? :P

Nora wrote: "I'll help dig up graves as long as I can keep anything of value that I find. Ooo, grave robbing ftw! ;p"

:O Grave-robbing! Perish the thought! We would be doing it for the science, of course! Wouldn't we? :P

[Greg]

jennbunny wrote: "I would love to go dig up stuff/bodies/archeology crap!"

It's sometimes possible to work for a week or more as a volunteer digger and... if you like crap in particular, look out for coprolites and the contents of cess or latrine pits! :P Check with your local museum or antiquarian society to see if they know of any digs happening in your area.

[Greg]

Scott wrote: "I used to love writing letters (real ones)."

Eileen wrote: "I also miss writing letters! All those years of beautiful penmanship gone to waste."

Well there's nothing stopping you both from doing it again! :P

[Jason]

Greg wrote: "jennbunny wrote: "I would love to go dig up stuff/bodies/archeology crap!"

It's sometimes possible to work for a week or more as a volunteer digger and... if you like crap in particular, look ou..."

Do they really take volunteers for digs? Do you need any formal education for such? This would be a fascinating thing to do, and not just a graveyard.

[Bandit]

that could be a great premise for a horror story...a volunteer goes on an archeological dig in a 17th century graveyard only to unearth a (insert terrifying object here), which he takes home instead of turning in and (insert a series of horrific events) occur

[Greg]

Jason wrote: "Greg wrote: "jennbunny wrote: "I would love to go dig up stuff/bodies/archeology crap!"

It's sometimes possible to work for a week or more as a volunteer digger and... if you like crap in particul..."

Some excavations are run as community projects so even schoolchildren can participate in them (hence no prior knowledge is needed), but many digs are run by contractors in advance of development and for contractual or other reasons they might not be able to hire volunteers. But you never know... so it's worth checking out. Jason, the dig I worked on in Montréal was on a Parks Canada site but it was a contract dig - there were no volunteers. However, about a block away there was another dig going on where volunteers were actively sought after.

[Greg]

Bandit wrote: "that could be a great premise for a horror story...a volunteer goes on an archeological dig in a 17th century graveyard only to unearth a (insert terrifying object here), which he takes home instea..."

So... are you going to write that story? :P

[Bandit]

I'd love to, Greg, but I haven't been able to write a whole short story for a year now, ideas is all I come up with
maybe Jason can write it? :)

[Greg]

Bandit wrote: "I'd love to, Greg, but I haven't been able to write a whole short story for a year now, ideas is all I come up with
maybe Jason can write it? :)"

What about a bunch of HA members writing it together in a Lovecraftian style (sans the racism perhaps)?

[Bandit]

sounds like a lovely idea
sounds like I really gotta start reading Case of Dexter Ward, to get the feeling for the style
I wasn't even aware Lovecraft was a racist

[Greg]

Bandit wrote: "sounds like a lovely idea
sounds like I really gotta start reading Case of Dexter Ward, to get the feeling for the style
I wasn't even aware Lovecraft was a racist"

He was also a bit of a snob! But as some other people have said, it's possible to overlook his racist viewpoint as a product of the era. And I must get offline and get back to reading Storm Front so I can get to Dexter Ward! LOL

[Jason]

It's not really important, that Lovecraft was a racist. It's a fact, but his time period and all that makes it sort of silly, imo. It doesn't really come up in any of his stories, but there are things here and there that make me grit my teeth. You find that racist crap in a lot more than just Lovecraft's work, though.

Racism has been brought up with every online conversation I've ever had about Lovecraft.

[Greg]

Jason wrote: "It's not really important, that Lovecraft was a racist. It's a fact, but his time period and all that makes it sort of silly, imo. It doesn't really come up in any of his stories, but there are thi..."

Lovecraft was a master of suspense and the macabre/weird so his stories are (to me) always fun to read but, like you Jason, I would sometimes wince at some of his throwaway racist comments. Of course, his theme of human-piscine admixture in some stories could be seen as a metaphor for 'miscegenation' as well as his distate for low income people as much as non-whites.