Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
discussion
Umbridge
I have to admit I was dissapointed that Rowling didnt elaborate on the punishment of Umbridge. She should have been taken again and mutilated by those Centaurs at the end of the seventh book, as a celebration of the demise of Voldemort, although to do those centaurse justice and give them respect, they probably wouldnt want their homeland to be tainted with the blood of such an ill bred half breed...
I too was disappointed that Umbridge was kind of mushed in with the Death Eaters and given no resolution, but I wouldn't have wanted her to lose her mind like Neville's parents. No one deserves that. Maybe just life-long imprisonment.
Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really happened to her by the end of the series? I personally was hoping she'd be killed off or something...Or at least deeply humiliated. Lost her mind, ..."Nope. Totally disagree with everything you've said.
Yes, she was wrong. Yes, she made Harry write 'I must not tell lies' in his own blood'. But no she wasn't totally evil. NO ONE is totally evil.
Dolores Umbridge wasn't in league with Voldemort, she just believed that some of things he did (like Pure bloods being dominant) were right. She believed in something, whether it be right or wrong NO ONE, absolutely no one deserves to be killed or even worse lose their mind like Neville's person. That is an absolutely horrible thought, that I wouldn't like to think for anyone.
She is a bit like a supporter of the BNP party today. The BNP party believe in a race with only English people. So Umbridge only supported them, she did what she thought was right. She wasn't totally evil.
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really happened to her by the end of the series? I personally was hoping she'd be killed off or something...Or at least deeply humiliated...."Ok, I admit, the losing her mind idea was a bit over the top, but I still think she deserved something bad. I mean, all the really horrible things only happened to the good people in the story.
I don't agree with your 'no one deserves to be killed' idea though. Voldemort and the death eaters definitely deserved that much after everything they did.
And Delores was key to destroying countless lives - maybe not killing them, but that little scene we saw with that one woman(the guy's wife, I forget the name right now), that was only like an hour of all the damage she was doing.
And actually, it probably led to some of them being killed which makes her no better than the actual killers.
She didn't just agree with some of the ideas like a sheep. She felt superior all on her own. That one person is better than another and that is very very wrong. I wouldn't have even care if she didn't have some horrible thing happen to her at the very end, if she learned to think differently. But she didn't. She just got off with nothing more than her new jewelry taken away.
I was very disappointed with that. I like to see bad things happen to bad people in the resolution. Justice, you know.
Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really happened to her by the end of the series? I personally was hoping she'd be killed off or something...."Umbridge did get taken away by centaurs and the fact that she will always be feared and never loved is something we should pity her for. I would never be able to kill a person, no matter what they've done. Yes, she didn't just agree to ideas, but she supported them at first and then worked her way to the top because she thought that she was right. She thought Voldemort was right about pure bloods being dominant. She's not evil, but she's definitely cold hearted and has a different perspective to the world unlike Dumbledore or Harry.
Gawd i hate her! she's so prissy and she made me hate the color pink! man i wished she died or something when the centaurs took her or maybe even tortured! she's so closed minded and . . . annoying. ugh, just the thought of her makes me shudder.
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really happened to her by the end of the series? I personally was hoping she'd be killed o..."Well apparently her time with the centaurs really didn't have that much impact on her. She was just as bad as before it happened.
Although I have to admit the part in the hospital after that was pretty funny.
I don't pity people who have isolated themselves through their own vindictive actions. I might think it's kind of sad, sure, but I save my sympathy for those who deserve it.
I honestly don't understand how anyone can think she was anything but evil. Even before Voldemort openly took power, she demonstrated again and again how evil she was. She used brutal, cruel punishments(torture, really) on kids who dared to say something she didn't like. She very happily demeaned people - her treatment of the other teachers and the kids at the school. And she purposely sent the dementors after Harry (and Dudley) and then used them in her twisted little interrogations in book 7. And she did all of that with a smile and an insipid giggle.
She took joy from causing people pain. I don't know any other way to describe that than as completely evil.
Even if I agreed with your idea that she wasn't evil and only supported voldemort and some of his ideas, that's not much better. So she only supported the vicious, soulless, cold-blooded murderer and tyrant. That's MUCH better(heavy sarcasm, here).
In my book, supporting a killer is only a step above actually being the killer yourself. People like her facilitated his actions and made his agenda that much easier to accomplish.
Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really happened to her by the end of the series? I persona..."I understand what you mean. Yes she is definitely a character whom JKR makes it very easy for us to hate. I hate her too, but Umbridge is a very strong character and has a lot of depth. I'm also not saying that she's not evil. She is evil, but I believe that no one is truly evil like no one is a saint. I can say this with proof that she at least respects the people that are above her in her line of work, she respects Pure Bloods like Draco Malfoy and has a bit of a soft spot for Slytherins. Yes, she is cold hearted and a downright psychopath, I do not deny that. By saying this I'm not supporting her or criminals, they should be punished but to some extent. I would hate for any person to die at my hands. The guilt would be unbearable. I honestly hate her as much as you do, but I have limits which I do not surpass under any circumstances.
Umbridge is something that has no words to discribe the old hag
I think I read somewhere that JK Rowling later said that after Voldemort's death, Umbridge was interrogated and sentenced to prison for crimes against Muggle-Borns
Juliet wrote: "I think I read somewhere that JK Rowling later said that after Voldemort's death, Umbridge was interrogated and sentenced to prison for crimes against Muggle-Borns"That's good. She deserved that, no more.
no she went to askaban
yeah, thats what I meant by prison
So let me get this straight...Professor Umbridge doesn't deserve horrible things to happen to her, even though she's a ficticious character. I suppose that means Hitler is absolved of all wrongdoings as well? I mean that is what you're saying isn't it?
Darkrose wrote: "So let me get this straight...Professor Umbridge doesn't deserve horrible things to happen to her, even though she's a ficticious character. I suppose that means Hitler is absolved of all wrongdoi..."I'm assuming that you're talking to me. Umbridge doesn't deserve to die or become like Neville's parents, she doesn't deserve that. If we're talking about Hitler, he deserved what happened because of what he did. He was a nutcase and at the end he committed suicide and he deserved that completely.
Juliet wrote: "yeah, thats what I meant by prison"oh :)
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really happened to her by the end of the s..."I didn't exactly mean someone should have just gone and murdered her. Just that I wouldn't have been too broken up about it happening. I wasn't advocating vigilante justice or anything. I do however feel there is certainly a place for capital punishment. But that's going a bit too deep for this discussion....lol
I don't think she really did respect her superiors all that much. She was a suck up. For most of book 5 she practically idolizes the minister, but then she goes and does things that he wouldn't approve of - the veritasirum - because of what it would do for her. She had 'respect' when it would get her something. And she didn't have a conscience about doing anything dishonest or evil.
Her 'respect' for the pure bloods and slytherins was more of the same. It was just her favortism and kissing up to whoever mattered - whoever could do something for her in return.
I just don't find any redeeming qualities in her. It's not just because she's easy to hate. The Malfoys were pretty easy to hate but I wasn't all that upset about them surviving more or less in tact. Because they did suffer some for their actions and there was a genuine change in them. Even if it wasn't sudden support for any good cause or turning their backs on their prejudiced ideas, they showed that they had genuine feelings and there was something redeemable about them. They actually loved each other enough to forsake their support of voldemort and Draco actually had a conscience.
Juliet wrote: "I think I read somewhere that JK Rowling later said that after Voldemort's death, Umbridge was interrogated and sentenced to prison for crimes against Muggle-Borns"Well, that's good. Although I wish we'd gotten to see it. But I guess the epilogue could only be so long...
Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not much really hap..."What I'm trying to say that is even Umbridge didn't deserve to die horrificly or be tortured to insanity like Neville's parents. But yes, I do understand what your saying.
i was pretty happy with it, fred and george got her pretty good so did the teachers by refusing to help her, then being taken off by the centars, which is horrible to her who was upset to even be touched by them. i think what needs to be remembered is that this series is young adult, and to have something more gruesome happen wouldn't fit the age group targeted here. even though the last couple books are pretty dark.
i feel that her punishment was amusing and fitting, just as it should be given the general age group the series is targeted for.
i hate her so much!!!!! with all her pink, fru-fru and kitties.....ick. I think she totally got what she deserved. i mean it would have been nice for her to get killed off but i quite enjoyed watching her get taken away by centaurs
Amanda wrote: "i hate her so much!!!!! with all her pink, fru-fru and kitties.....ick. I think she totally got what she deserved. i mean it would have been nice for her to get killed off but i quite enjoyed watch..."I AGREE
Stephanie wrote: "i was pretty happy with it, fred and george got her pretty good so did the teachers by refusing to help her, then being taken off by the centars, which is horrible to her who was upset to even be t..."Agreed.
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was anyone else disappointed that not..."Yeah, I don't really think she necessarily 'deserved' it, but I wouldn't have minded either. I just meant I was disappointed that nothing much happened to her by the end of #7.
But I'm satisfied with what Juliet said about her going to Azkaban.
Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Was a..."Ah, okay. Yes, I too am satisfied by her going to Askaban.
if you had read Deathly Hallows, in the ministry, she did keep a lot of dementors at hand while she's interrogating muggleborns. And from the way she's at ease with it, it seems she had done it a lot of time (before Harry infiltrate the ministry)... she essentially had let the dementors take the souls of innocent muggleborns... thats actually equal to actual killing... hence she deserved to go to Azkaban, justice servedher sentence is not about her prejudice... its more about her role in the ministry
Syahira wrote: "if you had read Deathly Hallows, she did keep a lot of dementors at hand while she's interrogating muggleborns. And from the way she's at ease with it, it seems she had done it a lot of time (befor..."I'm not sure to who you are talking to. Is it to me or Kristen or someone else?
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Syahira wrote: "if you had read Deathly Hallows, she did keep a lot of dementors at hand while she's interrogating muggleborns. And from the way she's at ease with it, it seems she had done it a lo..."generally I guess..
Aha. Well I wouldn't really say that she just sends Dementors out casually without any proof. I also don't think that Umbridge let the Dementors take Muggleborns souls. She just put them in Askaban I think.
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Aha. Well I wouldn't really say that she just sends Dementors out casually without any proof. I also don't think that Umbridge let the Dementors take Muggleborns souls. She just put them in Askaban..."I think this phrase tells a lot how ruthless Umbridge is;
"This is your final warning,“ said Umbridge’s soft voice, magically magnified so that it sounded clearly over the man’s desperate screams. "If you struggle, you will be subjected to the Dementor’s Kiss."
The man’s screams subsided, but dry sobs echoed through the corridor.
"Take him away," said Umbridge.
Two dementors appeared in the doorway of the courtroom, their rotting, scabbed hands clutching the upper arms of a wizard who appeared to be fainting. They glided away down the corridor with him, and the darkness they trailed behind them swallowed him from sight.
I definitely am not saying that Umbridge is not ruthless but I don't think she actually told the Dementors to kiss the people, maybe it was only threatened? We can't be sure.
Umbridge annoyed the (pardon my french) hell out of me, and while I was a little disappointed that nothing much was done to her, I feel like if something more was done Umbridge would have found some pleasure in it. As if she would smile and think about how we've stooped to her level and that we're no better.
I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters.
Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."Exactly the same with me.
Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."I know how you feel :P
Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."I know how you feel :P"
It's like ... everytime. It's like an obsession.
Rose wrote: "Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."I know how you feel :P"
It's like ... everytime. It's like an ..."
Well I mean we all sort of have to love an antagonist to some extent, because without them there would be no story :)
Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."I know how you feel :P"
It's like ... everytime. ..."
Yeah, that's right, besides, sometimes the evil character's goals/tagets isn't bad, just the way they try to reach it. Like Valentine, from TMI (The Mortal Instruments) if you've read those?
Rose wrote: "Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."I know how you feel :P"
It's like ...."
I haven't read them, but my friend recommended them to me. Right now I'm braving my way through The Terror. But going back the HP, I think the best thing ever is if you type into Google "sexy snape" and press I'm feeling lucky. That video made my day lol
Bellatrix Lestrange is a BAMF, one of my favourite characters and she's evil.
Hina(Bow ties are cool) wrote: "Bellatrix Lestrange is a BAMF, one of my favourite characters and she's evil."I second that statement
Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "Tsuki wrote: "Rose wrote: "I kinda liked her. I know, she was a bitch, but i have an tendency to fall in love with evil characters."I know how you feel :P"..."
I'll try that, but unfortunately i can't find the video :/
ya
I just read through this entire thread, and I think it's funny that we've gone from Umbridge to Bellatrix to bad guys in general only to finally end up on sexy snape lol
lol!i think the sam thing!wow-how can we do that!LOL!!!!!!!!!
Haha. :D I apologise for taking part in this randomness. Snape is another awesome being btw.
he iz awesome...:)
Being random is the bestest part :) and I would agree that snape is amazing...so is his petronus :P
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
I mean, she was basically totally evil!