The History Book Club discussion
NAPOLEONIC WARS
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11. HF - HMS SURPRISE - CHAPTER 11 (349 - 379) (06/06/11 - 06/12/11) ~ No spoilers, please
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Like a lot of O'Brian fans, at various times I have been a Diana hater. Chapter 11 appears to portray her as really abjectly cruel to Stephen. She leads him on by visiting him while he recuperates from his wound in the duel, allowing him to prattle on about marriage, then rejects him heartlessly, shacking up with Mr. Johnstone, and saying there was never any representation of marriage.
I no longer believe she is the villian. First, whatever his good qualities, and he has many, Stephen is wound entirely too tight. Refusing to allow anyone else to operate on him but extracting Canning's bullet himself (23 minutes - no anesthesia) seemed gratuitous. What was he trying to prove? To whom? When I started H.M.S. Surprise for this discussion Stephen's stalker-like knowledge of Diana's movements did not seem healthy. His operating on himself seemed to be a much worse symptom of the same unhealthy frame of mind. That frame of mind extends to and covers his relationship to Diana.
Which brings me to the second point, that Diana sees what Stephen does not, that he does not love her, at least not in any healthy, lasting way. Superficially, she is horribly irresponsible in running away from Stephen. In truth she may be the responsible one because she resists his obsessed advances, preventing a marriage he has only convinced himself that he wants.
Stephen's reaction to Diana's letter that she has attached herself to Mr. Johnstone bears this out. He admits, after obsessing over her for the entire book, traveling thousands of miles from England to see her, proposing marriage to her, fighting a duel over her and nearly dying, that he feels nothing. He does not even resort to laudanum to dull his feelings. Certainly, Diana has her own problems, among them that she has requirements for a certain level of wealth coupled with an inability or refusal to commit emotionally, and that she is stuck in a 19th century world that has no respectable place for a single woman. However, cruelty to Stephen is not among her faults.
What do you think of Diana? Is she a monster or just doing what she has to? Wilful or responsible? Please feel free to comment on this or anything else you found interesting in the book so far.
There is so much in O'Brian's books it has been difficult to confine myself to discussion of tiny slivers of this one. For example, the description of Stephen's climb up the mountain in Madeira in this chapter seemed wonderfully evocative of a world far less spoiled by human activity. The role of nature in this book alone could be the subject of an entire 4 month discussion thread. And I said nothing in this discussion about Stephen's discovery of a new turtle species or of Jack and Sophia's impending nuptials.
I hope you've enjoyed reading H.M.S. Surprise as much as I did.
I no longer believe she is the villian. First, whatever his good qualities, and he has many, Stephen is wound entirely too tight. Refusing to allow anyone else to operate on him but extracting Canning's bullet himself (23 minutes - no anesthesia) seemed gratuitous. What was he trying to prove? To whom? When I started H.M.S. Surprise for this discussion Stephen's stalker-like knowledge of Diana's movements did not seem healthy. His operating on himself seemed to be a much worse symptom of the same unhealthy frame of mind. That frame of mind extends to and covers his relationship to Diana.
Which brings me to the second point, that Diana sees what Stephen does not, that he does not love her, at least not in any healthy, lasting way. Superficially, she is horribly irresponsible in running away from Stephen. In truth she may be the responsible one because she resists his obsessed advances, preventing a marriage he has only convinced himself that he wants.
Stephen's reaction to Diana's letter that she has attached herself to Mr. Johnstone bears this out. He admits, after obsessing over her for the entire book, traveling thousands of miles from England to see her, proposing marriage to her, fighting a duel over her and nearly dying, that he feels nothing. He does not even resort to laudanum to dull his feelings. Certainly, Diana has her own problems, among them that she has requirements for a certain level of wealth coupled with an inability or refusal to commit emotionally, and that she is stuck in a 19th century world that has no respectable place for a single woman. However, cruelty to Stephen is not among her faults.
What do you think of Diana? Is she a monster or just doing what she has to? Wilful or responsible? Please feel free to comment on this or anything else you found interesting in the book so far.
There is so much in O'Brian's books it has been difficult to confine myself to discussion of tiny slivers of this one. For example, the description of Stephen's climb up the mountain in Madeira in this chapter seemed wonderfully evocative of a world far less spoiled by human activity. The role of nature in this book alone could be the subject of an entire 4 month discussion thread. And I said nothing in this discussion about Stephen's discovery of a new turtle species or of Jack and Sophia's impending nuptials.
I hope you've enjoyed reading H.M.S. Surprise as much as I did.
Mod
Her antics have wounded him deeply in the past as they would any man who loved her and I think he had put up a protective shield. He finally had the nerve to do what he has wanted to do and didn't realize for a long time: marry her. And yet she rebuffs him as just not suitable. Maybe she does not see so much an unhealthy mind but a mirror of some of her own characteristics.
A very troubling relationship at this point - no doubt. But I think that Diana is headed for a collision course with life and herself. Somehow, I think Stephen has more going for him that she does; like you implied at this time it was strictly a man's world and Diana was not playing by the rules for a happy ending.
Sophia has and her prize is Jack (such as he is). Special thanks for carrying on with no posters; this really is a great series and one can learn a great deal about this period of history from O'Brian through these wonderful books. The books portray the Napoleonic era which is a great period in history and O'Brian is a masterful storyteller.
Bentley
Welcome to the group discussion of the book HMS Surprise by Patrick O'Brian. This discussion is being led by Assisting Moderator - Christopher Tolley.
During the week of June 6th – June 12th we are reading:
Week Eleven - June 6 - June 12 - Chapter 11 - p. 349-379
This thread will discuss the following:
Week Eleven - June 6 - June 12 - Chapter 11 - p. 349-379
Remember, these weekly non spoiler threads are just that - non spoiler. There are many other threads where "spoiler information" can be placed including the glossary and any of the other supplemental threads.
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we have done for other spotlighted reads.
We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, on iTunes for the ipad, Audible etc. There are also downloadable eBook versions available. However, be careful, if you do go for an audible version that some audible formats are abridged and not unabridged.
There is still time remaining to obtain the book and get started. There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Welcome,
Bentley
Attached is the link to the full TOC and Syllabus:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...
Here is a link to the Introduction Thread for this book:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...
And here is the link to the glossary which is a spoiler thread where anything can be discussed regarding the book including historical events, famous people, locations, naval history depicted in the novel and the like.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...