Terminalcoffee discussion
Rants / Debates (Serious)
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Is a bumper sticker that reads "Illegal Immigrant Hunting Permit" hate speech? Should such a bumper sticker be illegal?
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I don't believe that free speech gives you license to say anything you want. The bumper sticker promotes hate and ignorance and shouldn't be allowed.
i dunno. should "my child kicked your honor students ***" be illegal as well? i rarely even read bumper stickers and if i see one like that i think that person is an ignorant pig anyway
Most bumper stickers are offensive to someone, and many of them are preachy and mean, so this sticker doesn't surprise me any more than one that promotes vegitarianism, pro-life/choice, or any other philosophy that is divisive and is best kept to yourself, especially when everyone around you is driving a two-ton killing machine.
"Chose life", "Meat is Murder", "My Kid Beat Your Kid's Ass" can't even be compared to "Illegal Immigrant Hunting Permit". The later advocates killing illegal immigrants and would be considered a hate crime in Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/hat...
Janice wrote: ""Chose life", "Meat is Murder", "My Kid Beat Your Kid's Ass" can't even be compared to "Illegal Immigrant Hunting Permit". The later advocates killing illegal immigrants and would be considere..."
I should clarify that I don't think this sticker is on the same level as the others, and I definitely agree that it promotes hate. These people need to realize that anything advertising or promoting violence is reprehensible, but the sticker itself is not surprising- mostly because people are jerks- and it is protected speech, unfortunately. American free speech laws protect Westboro Baptist Church, so they have to protect (other) racist and homophobic assholes as well.
A former coworker and dear friend (I nicknamed her "Morning Glory" and "Sunshine" because her cheerful mood usually put me in a good mood in the mornings) once told me, "Don't go littering up your beautiful brand new car with bumper stickers. WHY DO WHITE PEOPLE DO THAT?! Don't do it. It's ugly. It's ugly and tacky. Don't do it." I haven't put anything on my car since then. It took some strong restraint on my part to not do it at first, though.
I don't think the "Illegal Immigrant Hunting Permit" is a statement of hatred (although it's hard not to argue against it) as much as it is a statement of sheer and utter ignorance and stupidity.
I think it's all of the above -hatred, ignorance, and stupidity. I think it crosses the line in suggesting hunting - and therefore killing - human beings. The other stickers mentioned are violent but not deadly.
Generally it should be protected speech, other than in Arizona perhaps.I would certainly like to have a word with any dumb motherfucker who has that on his bumper.
I agree with Barb, post #4. I don't like it, I think a bumper sticker like that reflects badly on the owner, but it's free speech. Tacky, stupid, and yes hateful speech, but protected speech nonetheless.
I think the answer is more speech, speaking out against prejudice.
I see your point, Bun. And I know that not all speech is protected. The question becomes, does the word "hunting" necessarily mean shooting and killing? It can be considered ambiguous. Unless there's a picture of a rifle on the sticker?
I think any real hunter would say that the point is to stalk, shoot (bow or gun) and kill. Hunting is patience, and then the perfect shot. The goal is to kill. An ethical hunter will track any animal they accidentally injure in order to kill it. It's bad form to injure an animal and then leave it hurt or dying.Translate any of that to illegal immigrants and I say that you are advocating murder.
The word “hunting” would be ambiguous, except that when paired with the word, “permit” the reference becomes specific to hunting for the purpose of killing.However, the very fact that there is no actual “hunting permit for illegal immigrants” makes it other than literal speech, and therefore commentary rather than incitement.
Sadly everybody has the right to be one Bun, luckily most choose not to be.
This wasn't funny the first time I saw an "If it's tourist season, why can't I shoot them" sticker on a car with Maine license plates, and it's not funny now, but it's still not hate speech.It's ugly, it's vulgar, it says ugly and vulgar things about the person who applied the sticker, but it's not specifically incitement.
For some psychiatrically disturbed people, just about anything could be incitement for violence.
Is it incitement, though? It's not a directive, it's just an obnoxious attempt at a witticism.
But as Larry said, it adds to a culture of violence that sometimes is misread or taken over the edge by disturbed individuals.
I feel that this all leads back to the same discussion about rhetoric inciting violence that was going on in the media after Gabby Giffords was shot. How much can we blame on words? I really don't know.
I agree it's problematic. Scapegoating has such a long history with our species.
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I agree. It's gross, disgusting, reprehensible, hateful, violence-inciting speech.
What if we saw a "Jew Hunting Permit" bumper sticker? Would that be any different? How about "Nigger Hunting Permit"? They all cross a line.
There are various ways something can be illegal, i.e. what the punishment should be. Maybe a bumper sticker like this should incur a $1,000 fine. Then people can decide if they're willing to fork over $1,000 to say something that hateful.
I don't think it's illegal so much as wasted effort. Every year millions of illegal immigrants smuggle themselves in the linings of Ford Pintos for the chance to spit in the streets unpunished and realize their dreams of becoming American supermarket and gas station tycoons. Live with it.
Janice wrote: "I don't believe that free speech gives you license to say anything you want. The bumper sticker promotes hate and ignorance and shouldn't be allowed."I totally agree...
Kevin "El Liso Grande" wrote: "i dunno. should "my child kicked your honor students ***" be illegal as well? i rarely even read bumper stickers and if i see one like that i think that person is an ignorant pig anyway"See I think those are funny. I don't think that the Illegal Immigrant one is appropriate because it is specific on who it targeting, but saying your kid is going to kick another kids butt is different. Have you ever been on the sidelines of a kids sporting event?!? It's the mom's not the 8 year old honor students you need to be worried about!
http://www.wisn.com/news/28101137/det...
"The First Amendment doesn't give us license to put out hate items like that, and that's all it is. It's creating hate, creating violence. Violence is already up, like, 35 percent against Hispanics," Morales said.
What do you think? First amendment free speech? Going too far?