The Sword and Laser discussion
Which box do you belong in?
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Well, I would like to have a way to easily find books that have a scifi lean without having to surf through a million Nicolas Sparks or Stephenie Meyer books (meaning books with no scifi lean, not that these two authors are scifi). While I understand people being against being pushed into a category, these categories can sometimes help readers find the books by these authors. So yes its a double edge but necessary sword in an information age where you need a way to sort through all the stuff being thrown at you.
Nick hit it on the head. Some books interest me more than others and while I am sure author X is a great author I am not interested in some genres and i really do not want to dig through 50 romance books to find a good fantasy or military science fiction book.
Yes good books can rise above their genre and appeal to a wide audience, the Millennium trilogy and harry potter certainly proved that.
How do you suggest we decide what to read if we should not be labeling or categorizing books?
I really don't want to read about canning techniques of the 18th century or other topics that are equally uninteresting to me.
I view categoritization as a good thing done broadly, a bad thing if carried too far. I like knowing the type of book (SF, fantasy, Mystery, thriller, etc. ), the tone (thought-provoking, light, sarcastic, dramatic/epic), and authors with similar styles. Other than that, I just care about the writing and the story.
Sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't... For me, categorization is useful primarily because I tend to read in phases - it's the old "what do I read next?" question. Last year I went through a fantasy of manners phase, and once I'd devoured the books I knew about that fit my mindset I was left looking around wondering what else there was. Later I wanted Victorian/gaslight mysteries that weren't Anne Perry: I just felt like continuing in the same basic time period. As Skip says, basic labels are not a bad thing - though my labels won't necessarily work for someone else... Another advantage I can think of for labeling is helping readers to avoid what they do not want. Someone who is sick unto death of stories about dark fae in modern cities, for example should know to avoid urban fantasy labeled as such.
I don't have much patience for people who are put off books because of the shelves they've been put on; I don't care for horror, but if a book description makes it sound like a good read, I'll read it.
That is why Goodreads is an excellent tool. Categories are helpful for getting me to the right general area, like the Sword and Laser group :) But on Goodreads, I can see what people who seem to have taste in books similar to mine read outside of the category. That leads me to find enough variety to keep me happy :)
I'd like my box to have an indoor swimming pool and maybe a library.I like specific labels for genres I like. I could care less about the sub-genres for Romance because it's unlikely I'm going to read it anyhow. But if I find a SciFi/Fantasy book I'm thinking about reading the sub-genre it is makes a big difference to me. An example I can think of would be Post-Apocalyptic vs. Space Opera they are both science fiction but they are drastically different. Plus I think we should all have a Sword and Laser shelf, but that's a completely different topic.
On a side note I've really had to restrain myself from saying anything immature about boxes and what I'd like to put in them. I hope you're all happy I didn't stoop to that level.
Basically labels help reduce the complexity of the world and that's mostly a good thing. I can't add a lot to what's been already said here.For myself I like having a basic idea what I'm going to get into. Do I feel like reading fantasy right now or rather some science-fiction or maybe something completely different. I also like to mix things up so that I don't follow up one fantasy book after another.
Some of the bad things that can happen is a) you don't get what you expect, because someone told you it was "this-and-that" and for you it was really something else. That doesn't necessarily make the book any bad, but you can't help but having some kind of expectations and maybe choosing a book exactly because you thought it would be something it turns out not to be. Also, people can be put off by genre labelings because they think they don't like the genre. I'm pretty sure that goes for most genres. On the other hand, really, that's these peoples' loss. I try to stay open and read outside my preferred genres. I lean towards SciFi and Fantasy because the stories speak to me a bit more, but I don't stick to it. And I've read awesome books that weren't SciFi or Fantasy and I've read not-so-good books that were. So there.
I like making my own groups/labels for things, and that is one of the reasons GoodReads shelves can be so much fun, since books can fit into more than one category. (I have shelves such as "cold weather islands" and "dystopia")I have my music divided into my own categories too - geek rock, angry women, etc. That's beside the point.
I think if labels were more descriptive, it would be more helpful. For instance, if someone would label McEwan as "another novel about a bored white academic in a midlife crisis" instead of "literary fiction," I'd know when to stay away!
I know which box Helena belongs in. (This is a terrible joke if you get the movie reference.)
Tamahome wrote: "I know which box Helena belongs in. (This is a terrible joke if you get the movie reference.)"Ah! A riddle.
Jenny wrote: "cold weather islands"You mind explaining that one? I'm curious.
Tamahome wrote: "I know which box Helena belongs in. (This is a terrible joke if you get the movie reference.)"*groan*
Clearly most people (well respondents here) prefer categorisation. I too will use categorisation for 'fantasy' 'sci-fi' 'horror' 'romance' (shudders!) but I was more interested in and frustrated with the next level where sci-fi isn't enough but it must be hard sci-fi or whatever the alternatives are.
aldenoneil wrote: "Jenny wrote: "cold weather islands"You mind explaining that one? I'm curious."
Sure. I'm kind of obsessed with cold weather islands and want to travel to all of them - I've been to some of the Hebrides and to Block Island, but want to see PEI, Marthas Vineyard, Easter, the Faroe Islands, Philip Island, the Azores, the Channel Islands, etc. Maybe blame a childhood reading diet of Anne of Green Gables, I dunno. But until I find the magical librarian job that makes me wealthy, I mostly have to live vicariously through books, so I'm always looking for novels set those places.
I know what you mean about cold weather islands, I grew up sailing the islands north of Long Island, and they are very different in and out of season. Block Island has maybe 10,000 people on it in July, but only 300 in November. The seas are different too. Nor'easters bring dark, blocky waves. There is just something indescribable about watching an angry sea crashing onto an empty stretch of beach.
I do a top ten list of the books I read each year on my blog and it's usually separated in two parts. A) my ten favorite books of the last year and b) special awards in categories I make up as I go along.There's usually some simple ones like "best children's book" or "book that seemed the longest", but I also create very specific categories. In the past years there has been "Weirdest Book", "Best Book about Rabbits" (that was Watership Down, naturally), "Most Charming Book", "Best Book with a Vampiry Theme", "Clukiest Use of a Deus Ex" or "Best Kind-of-Victorian Ghost Story". I usually have lots of fun making up these categories and it just shows that sometimes it's hard to find the right box for something.
Skip - I went to Block Island in February and froze my face off. Total bliss!Anne - <3 - will you be my best friend? Okay, what about linking us to your blog?
Jenny wrote: "Okay, what about linking us to your blog?"My current one is http://herebesubtlety.squarespace.com, you might have to sift through the books category to find the articles. The old blog still resides at http://herebesubtlety.com/ where you can use the "xxxx in Review" categories to get to the top ten lists.
This is a good topic. I think I agree with what most folks are saying--categories are a useful heuristic device but we shouldn't get too caught up in thinking the categories actually represent the books perfectly. I like categories insofar as they help me figure out what I might like to read and, with nearly 300,000 books published every year in the US, this can be quite useful, as Anne mentioned, for managing complexity.And, Jenny,
I think if labels were more descriptive, it would be more helpful. For instance, if someone would label McEwan as "another novel about a bored white academic in a midlife crisis" instead of "literary fiction," I'd know when to stay away!
Very funny.
I only hate books defined hard sci-fi ; the ones really focused on scientific law. I enjoy science but i want read some fiction
hmm
Ok - I was wondering why we have this obsession with categorising books - hard fiction, young fiction, dark fantasy, epic fantasy etc etc etc!
Personally I could care less - all these labels do is put people off because it was categorised as on type or another.
Do these classifications help or annoy you or do not really care either way?