Karen Chance Fans discussion
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Hunt the Moon
The Cassie Books
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Hunt the Moon (Cassandra Palmer #5)
How come two being that are older than dirt (ok not that old but still) could be foiled with such a simple device as a car bomb? They dodged those dragons (forgot their name again) for quite some time. I think they must have paranoid as a middle name.An easy way to disappear is to be believed dead. I mean, Cassie's mom managed to get rid of the tracking spell on her.
I bring into question what Agnes said about secret society of mages trying to change history too...maybe it's those 6 half gods again doing mischief.
Sophie wrote: "Especially when we saw how easy it was to release people from the average trap (the Graeae, Drac...) thingie."Oh, I didn't think about that in relation to her opening the trap with the Graeae. Pritkin said that Cassie shouldn't have even been able to do that because it was a really complicated spell. She just picked it up and the Graeae popped out. That makes me wonder if Cassie can open the one with her dad in it.
Maybe Agnes could have taken the power away, in which case Artemis'd be as good as dead.
That's possible, but I do wonder if Agnes would have even be able to take it away from her. She wasn't the average heir.
Then again, Cassie said her mother must have been pretty bad off to even go there, so maybe Agnes did take it back and Artemis was dying from the lack of power. That could be a reason to come up with a plan to ensure that part of her soul would remain to keep the spell intact. Roger was mortal as far as we know, so just joining his soul with hers wouldn't be a long term solution.
Ragnar and Artemis purposefully handed their daughter over to a monster. I'd like to see Cassie deal with that when she finds out.
If that's the case, I think Cassie would understand... eventually at least. It sucks that she had to grow up with Tony, but at least she got to grow up which may not have been the case if the spell had died with Artemis.
Jessica wrote: "Sophie wrote: "Especially when we saw how easy it was to release people from the average trap (the Graeae, Drac...) thingie."Oh, I didn't think about that in relation to her opening the trap with..."
I think dealing with the paperweight will be the time when strictly magic part of Cassie will emerge. Especially in case she's go to get that before retrieving Pritkin. Without his magic and knowledge she'd have either do some serious in-the-past research or just rely on her luck and innate capabilities.
I'm also thinking about the case of her finding out she's been handled in a certain way. She's so hurt and confused already that from a purely psychological angle to make Cassie a realistic character, and a human at that, she's ought to have some sort of emotional breakdown. Frankly, I don't see her coming out of it with Mircea's help. HE's way to pragmatic in these situations and she needs someone who'd mourn the memory of her parents as it was and help her clear the air.
I'm thinking about doing some sum-up sort of site to help me digest the mythology. Anyone cares to jump in with some ideas? ;-)
Aleksandra wrote: "I'm thinking about doing some sum-up sort of site to help me digest the mythology. Anyone cares to jump in with some ideas? ;-)"I just set up this message board if you'd like to use it. http://cassiepalmerfans.boardhost.com...
It's empty, I went ahead and set up a few categories to try to organize a place for the related mythology.
Jessica wrote: "Aleksandra wrote: "I'm thinking about doing some sum-up sort of site to help me digest the mythology. Anyone cares to jump in with some ideas? ;-)"I just set up this message board if you'd like t..."
Great, I just hope I'll have enough time to gather all info and put it together. After next week I shall be free as the summer holidays begin and all of my students are going away... ;-D
That's a brilliant idea. For some reason - I guess because she has so many characters and bits of history and mythology in both the Cassie and Dory books - I keep mixing up some of the information. I was just thinking about trying to organize it, so it's cool other people are thinking the same way...As for Mircea, can it be considered cheating if you never really asked to be in the relationship in the first place?! I suppose so, because she isn't discouraging him - quite the opposite - when they're together. I've just always had a huge problem with him from the time we read about the geis. Whatever his reasons or motives, he's way too controlling, and he often benefits politically from this control. You have to wonder if he would love her if she had no power or prestige.
Plus, if she's involved with a powerful person like Mircea, I think she'll never be able to be the person she wants to be: an independent woman who can make her own decisions (and wear ugly clothes with no pedicures if she wants).
Rachel wrote: "Plus, if she's involved with a powerful person like Mircea, I think she'll never be able to be the person she wants to be: an independent woman who can make her own decisions (and wear ugly clothes with no pedicures if she wants). "
God, the foot fetish, another reason why I can't really warm up to Mircea... ;-P
Join us at the forum, after I'll gather some more info I'll set up a web page to make things more clear. ;-)
http://cassiepalmerfans.boardhost.com...
There's something on my mind for a few days now. Supposedly when Cassie and Pritkin swapped the bodies they had all their usual reactions, i.e. Pritkin's little morning shower, or his accessing some of Cassie's magic. The obvious conclusion is that they felt, and to some extent experienced the world through the body's senses. Right?But then comes HtM and they have the TALK in the car. And she says: "You still feel like this, don't you (...) what I'm feeling now - all the time?" And he says "Not all the time, no. It was almost constant for over a decade...".
And so there'd be no point to my argument if not for a few things.
A) "I didn't know too many humans who could shun all intimacy like that, much less someone whose body was specifically designed to need it."
B) It took him ten years and a lot of abuse to start thinking more or less straight.
C) Considering these we have to assume him not feeding randomly, and not experiencing the need all of the time depends on his self-control. The kind of self-control Cassie, clearly, did not have. Hell it took him a decade!
SO, the question is: How come she didn't experience any "uncomfortable" feelings when she was occupying Pritkin's body?
His body was on a lucky day? nah kidding.As I understand it, what caused the lust attacks was Pritkin's incubus, which can't be dissociated from either his body or his spirit.
Only when daikoku did the body swap, Pritkin's spirit was ripped from his body and chucked into Cassie's (if you remember from cassie's POV it felt extremely inconfortable), his incubus and the rest of his spirit were still one entity, and the whole thing landed in Cassie's body.
Which is why Pritkin was able to heal through feeding after the Rakshasas (sp?) attack, this ability being different from his natural faster than normal healing, the latter being linked to the body. (Am I even remotely making sense?!)
So in short, all the inconfortable feeelings were experienced by Pritkin's spirit in Cassie's body (which must have been a whole new level of weirdness for him ^^. Cassie is avenged.)
The best would be to ask KC via Facebook u_u'
Sophie wrote: "His body was on a lucky day? nah kidding.As I understand it, what caused the lust attacks was Pritkin's incubus, which can't be dissociated from either his body or his spirit.
Only when daikoku..."
Yeah, I kind of thought about that as well, but still, spirit or not. His body is built in a certain way to accommodate the process. Guess, I'll ask her. ;-)
Gimme her answer too! O_n
Aleksandra wrote: "I'm also thinking about the case of her finding out she's been handled in a certain way. She's so hurt and confused already that from a purely psychological angle to make Cassie a realistic character, and a human at that, she's ought to have some sort of emotional breakdown. Frankly, I don't see her coming out of it with Mircea's help. HE's way to pragmatic in these situations and she needs someone who'd mourn the memory of her parents as it was and help her clear the air."remember she does have those weird panic attacks and she's pretty good at denial and living in the now especially with her beings always attacked - when things slow down i think she tends to unravel a bit when she has time to think.
Rachel wrote: "As for Mircea, can it be considered cheating if you never really asked to be in the relationship in the first place?! I suppose so, because she isn't discouraging him - quite the opposite - when they're together. I've just always had a huge problem with him from the time we read about the geis. Whatever his reasons or motives, he's way too controlling, and he often benefits politically from this control. You have to wonder if he would love her if she had no power or prestige.
Plus, if she's involved with a powerful person like Mircea, I think she'll never be able to be the person she wants to be: an independent woman who can make her own decisions (and wear ugly clothes with no pedicures if she wants)."
i agree with you on most of what you said, i dont think mircea would of "married/bound" cassie if is wasnt for the geis cause there was no way he didnt love her than, but it worked for him in the end with the whole controlling cassie's power, well trying to control it/her.
im not sure if he loves her now or not - im pretty suspicious about his feelings towards her now and im glad cassie trying to figure it out with him if he truely does love her "that way" or not but she seems to not be able to think well around his hot bod, lol.
also @ Aleksandra about the whole pritkin's bodily needs.. i agree with sophie, i believe it because his soul is part incubus not his body, so he took the "need" with him when he swapped bodies with cassie
♥ Ashleigh ♥ wrote: "remember she does have those weird panic attacks and she's pretty good at denial and living in the now especially with her beings always attacked - when things slow down i think she tends to unravel a bit when she has time to think.Denial is a good solution when the events unwrap for some time, the problem grows, so you decide to push it even farther back. With the shocking revelations it's not always that easy. I think a panic attack might be the outcome, though. ;-) Wish I could cope with my problems in such an efficient way... ;-P You know panic, settle, accept/deny.
@ Aleksandra about the whole pritkin's bodily needs.. i agree with sophie, i believe it because his soul is part incubus not his body, so he took the "need" with him when he swapped bodies with cassie
I already agreed with Sophie on that point, however the only thing still isn't crystal clear for me as the need, and the spirit is one thing, and the body and its physiology is yet another. ;-)
Well it's far from being crystal clear with me either...just figured his body had normal human needs and his spirit/ incubus boosted the whole thing.BEEEP! Topic change!
So far we haven't talked about Mircea at all, save the romance thing.
For one I'm curious about who that vamp who tried to add him to her family back in the day was. The Consul?
"I have left my home with little some years before and had... someone with me for whom I was responsible [Dorina!]. I needed money for living expanses, and also to allow me to avoid a certain first-level master who had decided to add me to her family_ by force if necessary. She had tracked me to Venice and I had narrowly avoided her twice in that many days."
Now we approximately know what the Mircea short will be about (KC said it would be set in Renaissance Venice)
1) Dory actually stayed with Mircea for decades?!?( Tony was changed in the 1530's and Mircea in 1447)
2) Why did he not join the vamp's family? Because he couldn't have protected her?
I could be wrong but I do not think that Mircea was talking about Dory there. I forgot his name but who was his tutor? He was pretty old, partially blind and deaf too. We meet him when Cassie and Mircea jump in time to Paris 1793....I recall Mircea saying that he needs to be attended because Mircea turned him into a vampire too old.
Yeah, I had the same idea...The servant's name was Horatiu, as I recall. ;-)
Horatio? I think he was talking about Dory there. Didn't he tell her in *Death's Mistress* how he carted her around for a while after he erased her memory?
Thanks Aleksandra...I'm just not good with names.
He does, but in that particular story in HtM I just don't think he talks about her. Of course I've been mistaken...once, or twice maybe... ;-P I'll re-read the fragment and get back to you.
Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ wrote: "Thanks Aleksandra...I'm just not good with names."I'm usually not, as well. But I particularly like these chapters in Paris.... ;-D
I'm on your side, Sophie and Amy-la. I'm fairly certain he was talking about Dory. Otherwise why not just say it was Horatiu? Cassie's met him, she knows all about him. No reason to be secretive about him but he was very evasive about who this "someone" was. It was Dory.
And who isn't he secretive about, again? ;-D Although I can see your point, maybe is the operative word here. With Karen's lovely tendency to twist things and surprise I wouldn't bet any essential parts on it. ;-D
I think it makes sense that it was Dory as well. Since there was no reason not to mention Horatiu, I think it would have been natural to do so had it been him. Saying "someone I was responsible for" with no details about that person or why he was responsible for them implies premeditated secrecy. I know he's secretive about a lot of things, but he was explaining a set of circumstances that led to a particular act, that in hindsight, might not have been one of his brightest ideas. I think it's reasonable, considering he's the master manipulator, that he would include any and all information he was willing to part with to make his case. She knows Horatiu, that he wouldn't be able to survive on his own without Mircea as a protector. Had it been Horatiu, telling Cassie this would have just driven his point home, and made her more sympathetic to his situation.
Of course, this is Mircea we're talking about so... who knows.
Jessica wrote: "She knows Horatiu, that he wouldn't be able to survive on his own without Mircea as a protector. Had it been Horatiu, telling Cassie this would have just driven his point home, and made her more sympathetic to his situation. Of course, this is Mircea we're talking about so... who knows."
Of course that makes sense. It's just so simple an explanation that if I were big on Okham's razor I would've been more than happy to accept. It's just that I.. like complicated. ;-P
Aleksandra wrote: "I already agreed with Sophie on that point, however the only thing still isn't crystal clear for me as the need, and the spirit is one thing, and the body and its physiology is yet another. ;-) "The way I understood it was that his incubus doesn't have anything to do with his body. That that part of him was completely tied with the spirit. I know in HtM she said 'body', but if that were true from a physiological stand point, it seems that starving that half of himself would have done more damage than just making him uncomfortable.
It would be like his healing ability. That comes from the incubus part of him, but manifests itself on his physical body. The need he feels to feed comes from his incubus, and also manifests itself in his physical body.
I could be wrong, but I think that without his spirit in his particular body that it's just a normal body...albeit a hot one!
Jessica wrote: "Aleksandra wrote: " I know in HtM she said 'body', but if that were true from a physiological stand point, it seems that starving that half of himself would have done more damage than just making him uncomfortable."You're probably right and it's just the wording that confused me.
On a different note, I've come to the conclusion(even if it's just my own personal conclusion) that all these different supernatural groups can just shove their "claiming and mating" where the sun doesn't shine.Cassie's not a vamp, were, or demon, and to my recollection she's never agreed to be claimed, mated, or anything else for that matter.
The issue could have probably been forced if she was a normal human and unable to exert her will or defend herself, but as it turns out she's far from it.
Jessica wrote: "On a different note, I've come to the conclusion(even if it's just my own personal conclusion) that all these different supernatural groups can just shove their "claiming and mating" where the sun ..."I could not agree more. Plus, it's not just that she's human and does not have to obey all of these policies. Even if she were any of the kinds, she's far to defiant to subdue.
On a different note you should tell the group what do we think makes Pritkin more sane, as of late. ;-P
Aleksandra wrote: "I could not agree more. Plus, it's not just that she's human and does not have to obey all of these policies. Even if she were any of the kinds, she's far to defiant to subdue."In addition, mainly on Mircea's "marriage" to Cassie, I don't think the vamps would even try to force the issue. From a political standpoint, they have nothing to gain. No one group is going to want another to have closer ties to the Pythia than they have themselves. So, it's not like they would gain support from any group other than the vamps themselves, most likely the opposite. All they would do is risk alienating the Pythia , which makes less sense than letting it go and taking advantage of her understanding and close ties to the vampire community.
I think as far as this issue goes, the only repercussions would be Cassie's personal relationship with Mircea.
Aleksandra wrote: "On a different note you should tell the group what do we think makes Pritkin more sane, as of late."LOL, if anyone is interested in reading our theories on Pritkin's diet, you can look here.
http://cassiepalmerfans.boardhost.com...
i dont understand how Mircea can possible see a good outcome in not telling cassie about dory - does he seriously think she wont find out?? she's like a pro at running away and stumbling over things that ppl dont want her to see/know.i really hope she finds out in the nxt book and chews him a new one ;)
serves him right, she's not 11 and she's also not property or some pretty arm candy. lol.
Holy little red dressed freaking demigoddess Shit! There's a clue on the freaking cover!You know, the one with Cassie standing, half of her body illuminated by the moon and the other by a gas lamp, i.e. human-made light?!
I think I hardly even looked at the cover, being so possessed with the need to read... ;-D
@ sophiethats really smart i never thought of that.
i was doing the same as aleksandra - possessed with the need to read :P
maybe it's just a coincidence, KC doesn't have much to say in the choice of cover...
yea but im pretty sure the person who does create the cover pre-reads the script than thinks very carefully about how they want the cover to look.
I love the change in the thread's name.... ];->
I agree with you on most accounts, except for one. Pritkin's feeling aren't simple. He has to conquer his own fear to allow those feeling to take charge over his actions (and we know he did so by rescuing Cassie). He's fighting a difficult war with himself because he knows that he might become the worst nightmare of her life, but he also knows that she might be only person ever capable of actually withstanding that challenge. There's nothing simple aboout that. But I agree with you 100% that Mircea should not be anything more than a friend to Cassie. First of all, there's sth creepyy about sleeping with someone who tugged you to sleep when you were a child, second of all, his feeling true or not, she'll never be perfectly sure if it's not another power game and without such certainty how can you fully trust?! Without trust there's no relationship, at all.
Well, concerning Mircea there is the geis to consider. It enhances feelings that are already there. Hé must a minimum of affection for Cassie but I do not think that hé would put her first...But he did say the L word to her.
Mircea: I think he does indeed love her and she him. However, everyone has a different conception of what love entails. If two people don't have compatible concepts, it doesn't matter how much they love one another. They aren't going to be able to reach that practical working aspect that a relationship requires. So even though I am a HUGE Mircea fan, I don't think their feelings for one another can translate into a practical relationship based on their day-to-day needs.
Pritkin's treatment of her over time seems to tap more and more into what she needs on several levels. She feels safe and secure with him, he encourages her to do what she needs to in the context of her job, and even though he's technically in her employ they treat each other as equals nowadays. With everything she's gone through, she has a fierce need for freedom and probably a wish that someone be wholly hers with no political machinations to worry about. Although I think Mircea would put her first in every instance he could, he still has a duty to his vamp family that his pride and integrity could never allow him to ignore.
So, sigh, my poor Mircea will end up broken-hearted. That's okay - I'll gladly pick up the pieces!! ;)
i think mircea truly cares about cassie but not in the right way. he's also to selfish to put her needs/feelings before his.i dont think pritkin is innocent but i do agree that he's a better match and will keep her safe even at the cost of his life which im not sure mircea would do.
Amy wrote: "Valerie ~ Val Hall ~ wrote: "Well, concerning Mircea there is the geis to consider. It enhances feelings that are already there. Hé must a minimum of affection for Cassie but I do not think that hé..."Don't forget that in the same book, he tells Dory (view spoiler) I think this is emblematic of his relationship with Cassie: trying to balance his personal desires with his responsibilities to the Senate and his own family.
While we're on the subject... I always had a problem with Mircea sending Dory after Drac in London in 1889. I know Dory is strong, but Mircea should have realized how dangerous his brother could be, and ultimately, it was Mircea's responsibility to take care of him. I can't help but think a less politically-minded father would never have sent his only daughter after a dangerous psychopath.
im about to read
- super excited, soon i'll know what you guys are talking about when you comment on dory and mircea, then i'll be able to join in bashing mircea personality a bit more, lolXD
@ Rachel. Only Dory could have done what Mircea asked, his goal wasn't to kill Dracula but to trap him, being an even worse fate according to him. Anyone who didn't belong to his family would just have killed Drac.
Which as he realized later was stupid.
Ashleigh - my hope is that you will not bash Mircea but like him more!!!! He is not perfect but neither is Pritkin. I mean - the man tried to kill Cassie more than once! Sure he is faithful sidekick (sometimes leader) of Cassie now. I like Mircea and I like Pritkin. But I am torn as to who I want her with long term.
Yeah, the Dory books should make you like Mircea more. I think his relationship with Dory is really cute.I like Mircea - just not for Cassie.
Karen Chance Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
Midnight's Daughter (other topics)Death's Mistress (other topics)
Claimed by Shadow (other topics)
Claimed by Shadow (other topics)
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Interesting!
I had thought of something like that too, based on the fact that it was odd that the trap would be simply irreversible. Especially when we saw how easy it was to release people from the average trap (the Graeae, Drac...) thingie.
Jessica wrote: "He killed an ancient time traveling goddess with a car bomb?"
Is she now? A number of people said it, the heirs could be disowned, and not nessecarily in the most definitive way. Maybe Agnes could have taken the power away, in which case Artemis'd be as good as dead.
If they pulled of an... interposed suicide, it would also mean Ragnar and Artemis purposefully handed their daughter over to a monster.
I'd like to see Cassie deal with that when she finds out.