Hunt the Moon (Cassandra Palmer #5) Showing 1,101-1,150 of 1,218

[Duca]

I've noticed this before as well, I think I might have even mentioned it in this group all those years ago when it first came out. You've got the quote right Lia, Cassie is just thinking Mircea never listens when he says out loud exactly what you quoted. I am still highly HIGHLY suspicious of Mircea!

[Bell]

Yes, thank you! See what a group mind can do?

OK, so Zeenat remembered the moment in CtD where he not only reads her mind but talks back to her, in her mind. And Lia points out that in HtM he can read her mind while he's talking to her on the phone -- from New York, Josie says, so it's from a great distance away. In every case, he does it when she's upset, vulnerable, so probably she's letting her shields down somewhat, but we don't know if he could do it through her shields. Probably, because Mircea has SKILLZ.

Does it ever happen before before CtD? I'm trying to figure out whether this is just one of Mircea's skills, generically, speaking, or a side effect of their "bond" as he calls it.

And what, exactly, is that bond? Is it from the bite where he made her his "wife" (because we know that biting her didn't work with Tony) or is it the lingering effects of the geis or what?

And Mello, good question, I don't know if Cassie knows exactly what Mircea's skills are. I'm guessing not. I mean, it's not like he tells her anything, and who else would tell her? I doubt the mages know enough about him to explain, anyway. For example, I don't have the impression that they realise he can drain a fully shielded war mage from across the room in 2.5 minutes.

So how many times does he read her mind and not let her know that he can do that? Could he have figured out what Pritkin is from overhearing Cassie's thoughts about it?

[Aileen]

I JUST finished EtN a couple days ago (I am SO behind...it's very sad on my part.) and there was no mind reading/talking in her mind. I have a feeling it is not JUST a side effect of the bite, I think he put a little something extra in there because he thought she was a dream. I think that master vamps probably have a choice how deeply they connect with someone they bite, but maybe not since they can also draw blood through the air. SO, him biting Cassie was a big deal, him being able to read her mind (probably not all the time, it seems to be usually when her emotions are high) is a side effect of him marking her the way he did. Still love him, still love him for Cassie, and I think that she just shoves the fact that he can sometimes read her mind just out of her thoughts. She has way to much else to deal with.

[Josie]

"You frightened me. For a few moments, I could not feel you."
I frowned at the phone. "You're in New York. How are you supposed to feel me?"
"Through the bond."
"We have a bond?"
A sigh. "Of course we have a bond, dulceaţă. You are my wife."

Whether a bond extends to mind reading, I'm unsure. Bell, you're quite right that everytime it happens, she's upset - that could point to the loss of control being down to her and Mircea "overhears" - like projecting when Dory did it at the end of FK. Or maybe he can skim the top of her thoughts if that makes sense, since he is talented at all things mental.

[Bell]

Yeah that sounds like a solid theory, Josie. If I can remember, I will ask KC and maybe she'll answer it in a Q&A...

[Josie]

Bell wrote: "Yeah that sounds like a solid theory, Josie. If I can remember, I will ask KC and maybe she'll answer it in a Q&A..."

:D

[Zeenat]

So This is discussion questions for chapters 1-5:

1) Priktin loves running Cassie to the ground. How do you think his training will help her as Pythia in the future? Do you think he should relax a little?

2) What was your first thought on the invisible entity that attacked Cassie? Did you know what it was?

3) Mircea comments that he was frightened by not being able to feel Cassie through the Bond. I'm assuming the Bond is through the vampire bite. Do you think otherwise? What other connections abilities do Mircea and Cassie have because of the bite? Do you think Cassie should be able to feel Mircea as well?

4) Pritkin goes “But I’ve known war mages who aren’t as resilient, who aren’t as brave, who aren’t—” he looked away for a moment. What do you think he was about to say before he looked away and call her the strongest person he knew?

[Aileen]

1) I think that the reason Pritkin runs her to the ground is purely stamina, because if it takes her longer to get tired maybe she can shift more times?? Also, shifting under pressure or pain when she can't think of anything else. I remember that in EtN when the dark mage shoves a knife through her wrist she thinks that maybe part of training is being able to do that.

2) I was so confused by that entity, because I kept thinking "it can't be a ghost and an incubus spirit thing wouldn't do that either..."

3) I love the bond. I love Mircea. I do think the bond is through not only the bite but possibly a side effect of the geis??? How, I have no idea, just a thought. Though Josie made a good comment about Mircea and his mental powers. And I think that had Cassie been a vamp, possibly, but since she isn't, I don't think so.

4) I thought that he was going to say beautiful...because she is, and she is the type who doesn't see herself that way a lot, which makes her even more so to people (like Mircea, Pritkin, etc). That's just what I thought, because he cut himself off before going to deep with his feelings.

[Josie]

Aileen, 'beautiful' was my first thought too! It's like he started talking about her in comparison to war mages and just got carried away with her good points :)

Regarding the bond, I thought this in TtD might be relevant.

Vampires could control most norms through their bite: one was usually enough, two always were, and after three, the victim became a vamp bound to his or her master, so it was a moot point. But Tony had bitten me twice to ensure loyalty, once when I was a child and then again after my return to him as a teenager. Yet, if he'd been trying to summon me—a safe bet—it had failed.
My theory was that my constant association with ghosts had interrupted the signal. Billy Joe was almost always with me and I constantly wore his necklace, which bound us together even when we were apart. And vamps can't read ghosts. One of the points Billy had used to make our deal was that, with luck, he'd run a kind of spiritual interference. Maybe it had worked, or maybe I was one of the few who had natural resistance to the call.

Billy Joe or her heritage?

[Aileen]

Soooooo then why is Mircea able to sense things?? Though, since his abilities are mental maybe that's why??

[Josie]

Well I would guess that it's because 1) Mircea is a lot more powerful than Tony and 2) the bond is not mental, instead more to do with a feeling or sense, if you get me? But that's just speculation, I would like to know more details about this bond!

So I'm wondering, Mircea bit Cassie, right? What makes her Mircea's wife and not Tony's, since he did bite her twice?

[Aileen]

I think it was the placement of the mark, and her age. Tony bit her as a kid, so I think that since now she's an adult it's a different matter.

I did think that it might be because he's more powerful, but I think there is something more than that too...I think it's something about Mircea's powers or just something...

[Aileen]

Oh, and the invisible entity, I remember (not a lot better) from CtD about how Cassie couldn't see the Rakshasa's in her body, only in Pritkins and so I thought it was something of the demon variety for that reason. Though Rosier was making a comeback, that crazy Demon Lord.

[Lannister]

Great questions, Zeenat!

My answers:

1. I think Pritkin's only trying to help Cassie with his workouts, as perhaps the stronger she is physically, the more she'll be able to shift. It seems a reasonable supposition, since the feelings of exhaustion Cassie describes are similar to an unfit person having to run some distance! I guess we need to watch this space and see if Cassie starts to shift five, six or seven times without feeling like she needs oxygen!

2. I thought it was some sort of demon. Most of them can't assume human form, but that doesn't mean they can't interact with the world at all. When I first read the book, I wondered if it was Rosier back for another fight, via one of his minions.

3. This bond thing is confusing. I remember we talked about this a little when we read Touch the Dark, and thanks Josie for posting that quote. I thought, back then, that Cassie believed Tony's bite had no effect because of Billy Joe, since that seemed the only thing different about her compared to other humans. But now I think it was her heritage that stopped Tony controlling her. And I think the 'bond' or marriage bite must somehow be different from the bites Tony gave. I don't quite know how, though. Maybe the vamp releases chemicals into the bloodstream or something like that? I think it's more than just the placement of the mark.

I think vamps can bite without leaving marks? Or, at least, the mark fades over time? Cassie's never commented on having Tony's teethmarks on her, and I can't believe she wouldn't have mentioned it by now, especially when she thinks about the mark Mircea left. I'm thinking the vamp does something to make the mark permanent and that's what creates the bond.

This whole marriage thing is highly unusual, though, and there may not be much info on it. How many vamps have 'married' humans in the past? I suspect none. If they're so much in love with a human that they'd want to marry them, wouldn't they make the human a vampire first, to avoid them ageing and dying? I suspect most vampire marriages only involve vamps.

4. Finally, I don't know what Pritkin's exact word might be, but something so highly flattering that he's too embarrassed to say it!

[Claire]

I agree with you on number 4 Lannister.

It made me think he was so overcome with emotion he couldn't say anything, afraid of what he might reveal

[Aileen]

On the whole marriage thing, as long as they weren't a magic user that couldn't be turned or they would lose their magic, they would probably be turned, which is probably why IF humans were marked similarly to Cassie, then they would probably be turned pretty soon after. i.e. Antony and Cleo. I think that it has to be more than one vamp to have done that to a human. If they didn't, how would all the vamps recognize Cassie as Mircea's WIFE, not just his plaything. I mean, I know MIRCEA doesn't mark people often, but other vamps might do it a lot more??

[Lannister]

Well, it's one thing to have a valued servant with magic, but we're talking marriage parter here! If I loved someone and thought I might lose them through old age, I wouldn't be caring if they lost their magic by becoming vampire. I'd want them at my side!

I'm pretty sure KC has commented on Mircea's situation being rather unique. I will go hunt for it.

[Lannister]

Claire wrote: "It made me think he was so overcome with emotion he couldn't say anything, afraid of what he might reveal"

Yes, exactly! :)

[Lannister]

Well, that was quick. Here's an explanation of sorts from KC.

Since Cassie and Mircea are “Married” by vampire law, if Cassie wanted to date someone else could she? Would Mircea still own her? How does it work?

If you read the part in Hunt the Moon when Cassie and Jonas are talking (the first time), it will mostly explain this question. It also helps to recall what Cassie said to Pritkin in the pizza parlor. Basically, it boils down to the fact that vampires have a very distinct hierarchy among themselves, with everyone clearly knowing his or her place, who they do and do not owe what kind of fealty to, and who takes precedence over who in the constantly changing dance of power. But when it comes to humans, it’s a whole other story.

As Cassie told Pritkin, there’s not a lot of gradation in the way vampires treat humans. There’s two main categories: servants and food. Meaning that Mircea is embarking on kind of a new thing in dating her, rather than simply keeping her as a pet or a servant, which is how most master vampires treat favored humans. Not that there are a lot of those, because most of the ones they really like, they turn. But Cassie can’t be turned, so she needs a new category.

At the moment, she is in the highest category they have for humans, which (as Cassie told Jonas) is usually reserved for capable mages who they can’t turn because they would lose their magic, but who they don’t want some other family poaching. So they bind them with a bond, the same kind that, coincidentally, is used as a marriage between master vampires. It gives someone entrée into a vampire family without having to actually join it, which no senior master is going to do for another no matter how attractive they find them.

So, after all that, the answer to your question is: it depends on how you look at it. If you consider Cassie merely a useful human bound to Mircea’s family, then of course she can date whoever she likes. That category covers someone’s occupation, not their personal life, so it wouldn’t matter. However, if you consider her to have the status of a master vampire, that wouldn’t be the case because they only enter that type of bond as a marriage arrangement.

So what was the subtext between Cassie and Mircea in HTM? Mircea was trying to have it both ways–claiming Cassie as a wife, but treating her as a servant. A favored servant, but still. While Cassie was effectively telling him, if you keep treating me as merely a servant, then I can do as I like, because I’m just a human loosely bound to the family. If I am your wife, however, then you’re going to have to treat me that way. Which he wasn’t doing, because that would have meant also treating her like a master vampire outside of the bedroom. And that would have opened up a whole can of worms with the Senate and he had enough issues he was dealing with already. But that was why they were having problems. Well, one of the reasons. Mircea was acting like Cassie didn’t know how vampire society worked, and that just wasn’t the case.

[Aileen]

I love KC, she explains things SO WELL without revealing a THING.

[Zeenat]

You know during this reread I'm really trying to pay attention to Mircea and Cassie's interactions. They usually go ignored in favor of Pritkin, but this time I'm trying.

Anyways, In the book, when he's pushing Cassie to talk about her mom, I thought that was sweet. He's an age old vampire, but he's really trying to get Cassie to open up to him about her feelings and thoughts. He cares.

I've got a theory, but I'm gonna take it to the crackpot theory page.

[Lannister]

I've read the first fifteen chapters, but I'm not going to jump the gun, but here's a few random thoughts.

Within the first few pages of the book, Cassie says

"Everyone assumed there would be an attack. Even I assumed it. The supernatural world was at war, and killing off the opposite side’s leadership was SOP. And whether I liked it or not, the Pythia was seen as one of our side’s more important assets.

This got me thinking, not about Cassie, but about the Consul, and the comment in the other thread about Mircea's story arc having barely begun in the Cassie books. In Curse the Dawn, it talks about attempts on the Consul's life, but with the plotline with Sal and Apollo being wrapped up, I hadn't really thought about that much more. But the Consul's position is even more front and centre now, given that she's leading the Senates in the war. Why wouldn't her enemies not want her dead? Cassie talked a little about Sal in Chapter Five and wondered if she could still communicate directly with Tony in Faerie. (I think not, since Tomas couldn't feel LC once he got to Faerie, and LC was much stronger than Tony.) But whether Tony himself or a go-between was communicating with Sal, the fact remains that there are lines of communication between the bad guys that we don't know about, and there's no reason to suppose they aren't still operative.

I know I've speculated (at great length!!) about Mircea and the Consul coming to blows and Mircea taking over the Seante, but maybe it doesn't have to come to that. Perhaps the Black Circle and their allies take out the Consul and Mircea takes over the Senate (and surely it wouldn't be anyone but Mircea?) This would really kick off his storyline as he becomes the new wartime leader of all Senates in the middle of the war. It would fit with KC's comment above and nicely hook in the assassination attempts from Curse the Dawn. Sadly we wouldn't get to see Mircea and Her Snakiness fight, but you can't have everything! ;)

Another thing that struck me ... right at the end of Chapter Five, Pritkin says he's going back to Faerie and Cassie's a bit freaked. She doesn't want him to go and asks "And if I order you to stay?" Pritkin admits that if Cassie said no, he wouldn't go. He respects her position, and her authority. I thought that was quite a contrast to Mircea who does what he likes ... see quote below ....

That was why Mircea and I were dating - or, at least, that’s why I was doing it, to figure out whether this whole relationship thing was something I could handle. He was doing it to humour me, when he remembered, although he clearly thought the whole thing was ridiculous. Mircea had been born in an era when men took what they wanted and kept it, as long as they were strong enough. And strength had never been one of his problems.

Oh Cassie, you're nearly as cynical as me! ;)

Will post more later.

[Josie]

I love this! Such great speculation!

@Zeenat: I agree! It was rather sweet of him (about the only thing that was in HtM, since when I first read it I hated Mircea by the end. I was so angry with him! But after FK, I've mellowed a bit). I thought that scene, where he says about Cassie avoiding her feelings, really shows how much Mircea does know and understand her. He might underestimate her and patronize her at times (okay regularly), but he knows her character.

[Cameo]

Eugh I really REALLY love the balcony scene <3

[Aileen]

Okay, so...I love all the speculations about killing ol' Snakey off. And I think that yes, Mircea COULD lead BUT, they talked before about how if the Consul dies (any Consul) ANY first level master can try for the job. So, it wouldn't automatically go to Mircea, even in War time. And honestly, I think if Mircea became the Consul him and Cassie would be over. Not because of his actions, but because if she is having problems with the Circle just DATING a senator, having her sleeping with a CONSUL...they'd never get over that, and he's already extremely busy, I think that even post war, if he became Consul, Mircea and Cassie would drift apart and eventually decide to part ways, but keep their alliance alive.

I could see Consul being a casualty of war though. It would be a good twist to have.

And on Mircea and Cassie...I think that he is dating her to appease her. He thinks of her as his wife, all the vamps do too, but he wants her too as well, so he is going to SOMETIMES treat her as a wife, SOMETIMES as a girl he's dating. And yes, he is used to a time when wives were as prized a possession as a horse. But, through the books I have seen him trying to come around more to her way of thinking. I believe that if the war had not escalated the way it did, and they had more down time together things would be different.

And I noticed that Marlowe and Mircea are a lot more alike than I first though. They BOTH want to protect their women as best as they THINK. By locking them away. And Cassie is all "the Consul knows she can't lock herself away" and I think in Mirceas mind all he can think is that, Pythia or not, she's human, a snapped neck means death to her. And I think he also believes that the Consul is MUCH older, and a lot craftier than Cassie (which she is, not that Cassie isn't, she just doesn't have Cleo's years of experience is all) and a lot harder to kill. So, while I don't agree with some of the things Mircea does, I do try to see where he's coming from and why he does the things he does.

[Lannister]

I do agree, Aileen, that I think Mircea is trying, in his own way, to please Cassie, though I'm sorry to say that I tend to see self-interest (or Senate interest, more likely) as the motivation, rather than undying love. For instance, the following quote...

"You hoped I’d become Pythia one day."

Mircea didn’t bother to deny it. He was a vampire. Utilizing whatever resources were available within the family was considered a virtue in their culture, and a possible Pythia was a hell of a resource.

To be fair to Mircea, this is Cassie's opinion and she's been wrong about a couple of things that I've noticed in the reread, and she could be mistaken about this. However there are other scenes in Hunt the Moon where she proves she has vampire culture nailed, so I'm not so certain she IS wrong. I guess we'll all need to draw our own interpretation on this one. :)

On the Consul, you're absolutely right that it wouldn't automatically go to Mircea, but I honestly can't see anyone else in the books getting the job. There might be some duels or whatever, but I think Mircea will win. I was wondering if, given that they might be knee-deep in the war by this point, it might be decided Mircea is in charge for the duration of the fighting, with a proper election process afterwards (sort of like how LC is back on the Senate, despite supposedly being barred for a century because of his actions over Christine). I could see the Big Cheeses deciding they didn't have time for all the usual crap associated with appointing a Consul, and Mircea gets the job temporarily, then keeps it afterwards.

[Josie]

Sorry to change the subject but I have to quickly say how hilarious the scene is with Marco being smug after Cassie comes back from sexing with Mircea and Billy's saying how weird all vamps are (pg 165).

Yeah back on track, I think whatever the reason is for Mircea (view spoiler)[wanting Pythias (hide spoiler)], it will either destroy Cassie's trust or just confirm what she's been thinking throughout her relationship with Mircea. I can definitely see Mircea being head of the Senate and Cassie having to break up with him.

[Lannister]

Don't worry about changing the subject, Josie. We can talk about anything related to the book. :)

I thought it was funny how BJ lectured Cassie, because she wasn't supposed to sleep with Mircea. I love BJ. He's like a slightly wayward, somewhat unreliable older brother. Sometimes you want to strangle him, but you know deep down you love him dearly and, when the chips are down, you know he's got your back.

I loved this quote. It's Mircea at his amusing and charming best ...

"A gentleman doesn't sit while a lady is standing," he admonished.

I put a knee on his leg to keep him in place. "And if the lady insists?"

"Hm. A quandary." A strong hand clasped my thigh through the silk. "Since a gentleman always accedes to a lady’s wishes."

"Always?" That could come in handy.

He laughed and kissed my hand. "Unfortunately, I am not always a gentleman."

Also, I lost it laughing at this one ... (Cassie is talking about the mage with Artemis, not yet knowing he's her father)

"He was kind of an idiot. He couldn’t shoot worth a damn, and he kept running around screaming, and running into-"

I stopped because I’d slammed into something, hard enough to hurt.

Oh, Cassie! :D

[Josie]

I thought that was a really nice moment between BJ (okay, I'm not sure we can shorten Billy Joe to BJ... haha) and Cassie.

Oh, Mircea is such a charmer. I don't blame Cassie at all for being with him.

LOL now we know who she gets it from!! :P

[Lannister]

I deliberately shorten Billy Joe to BJ!! :P

[Claire]

Lannister wrote: "I deliberately shorten Billy Joe to BJ!! :P"

Why am I not surprised?

[Josie]

LMAO!! Okay then!

I had forgotten how funny Jonas is as well, especially when he tries to set Cassie up! And with the chalk!

I loved this bit as well.

"If you must know, I have a date tonight!"
"Really?" Jonas looked delighted. "May I ask with whom?"
"Mircea," I said, only to see his face fall.
"Ah."
"What does that mean?"
"Nothing, nothing. None of my business, after all."

LOL, I wonder who he was hoping it was with... :P

[Lannister]

He better have been thinking of Pritkin, and not one of those other mages!!

I like how Jonas is just this side of batshit crazy. Maybe that's what having a relationship with a Pythia does for you. *sniggers*

[Duca]

Oh yes Josie I remember that scene! Like Lanni says, I too hoped Jonas was thinking it was Pritkin :) it's one of my dearest wishes that Jonas starts playing matchmaker between those two <33 I can see him doing it actually, as soon as he clocks that Cassie isn't interested in any of the dates he sets her up with and figures out that she's got a thing for his very own comrade Pritkin :P I bet he approves!

[Josie]

It must be Pritkin!! I definitely see him being matchmaker, but he probably hints (or says outright) more to Pritkin than Cassie. I would put money that sharp ol' Jonas sees that they have feelings for each other, no doubt knowing before they even know it themselves!

[Josie]

Plus, he probably sees a lot of similarities between him and Agnes, and Cassie and Priktin.

[Zeenat]

Questions for Chapters 6 through 15:

1)Augustine messed with Cassie well in Chapter 6. So if Augustine was designing a dress for you, what would it look like? What enchantments would be on it? What occastion would it be for?

2)Jonas thinks Cassie should date multiple people casually. Do you agree?

3)Mircea accuses Cassie of basically being emotionally stunted. Do you agree or disagree?

4)Cassie's mom asks her who she is. Do you think she recognizes her before Cassie disappears?

5) What are your thoughts on Cassie and Mircea's "Night out of Time". Was it a smart decision? Was it just what they needed, or did it complicate things?

6) When talking about why he changed Tony, Mircea mentions "I had left my home with little some years before and had . . . someone with me for whom I was responsible." Do you think Mircea should have mentioned Dory then? What do you think would have happened if Cassie asked "who"?

[Aileen]

2) NO I DO NOT. She has WAYYYYY to much on her plate already just handling dating MIRCEA, do you think adding to that will make it better????? He'd probably LOSE it if he found out...well...anyone other than Pritkin I must concede to that...

3) Agree. Sort of. Stunted seems like too strong a word. But then, think about all Cassie SAW and experienced as a child. A lot of her visions were traumatic, then learning that Tony USED them to his own gain instead of helping people?? And seeing her parents blown up?? Emotionally scarred would fit better in my opinion...because that's what I see it as, more than stunted. Though...I see where he is coming from since she buries her emotions a lot of the time. It's like she closes a door on things she doesn't want to deal with until it all becomes too much to deal with at the time (prime example, the body swap. It's that ONE THING that just pushes her over the edge and she breaks down)

[Lannister]

My answers.

1. LOL! I'm not really much of a dress person. I want to wear my usual outfit of a t-shirt (preferably with a rude slogan), combats and big boots. However, thanks to the enchantment, it'll look like I'm wearing something gorgeous and lacy. This way I'm comfortable and don't get sore feet, but also don't look out of place. Win win!! :D

2. I agree somewhat with what Jonas is doing. He's playing politics, but I think it's probably necessary. It's not good for Cassie to be seen as a vampire's pawn, and I don't think it would have hurt her to be seen out with a mage having dinner once in a while. She didn't need to actually date; she just needed to give the appearance of dating.

3. Are you talking about the scene where Mircea says Cassie feels abandoned by her mother? I actually noted that scene in my read, as I thought it was interesting. I've quoted it below (I hope this is the right one!!) ...

"You are not fine, dulceata. You are feeling anger, loss, betrayal-"
"I don’t have any reason to feel betrayed."
"She abandoned you when you were a child-"
"She died, Mircea!"
"Yes, but the fact remains that she left. And hurt you in the process."
"I wasn’t hurt. I was barely four."
"You were hurt," he insisted. "But you do not deal with such emotions, Cassie. You ignore them."
"That isn’t true!"
"That has always been true. It is one of the defining aspects of your character."

I felt, to a degree, that Mircea could almost be talking about himself. He really doesn't deal with his negative emotions very well either. (Example, Dory comments on how Mircea wouldn't kill Drac but instead imprisoned him in a box because it was all neat and tidy.) I thought it interesting that Mircea 'gets' this side of Cassie so well, and I thought it was because he's very similar. I don't think Mircea feels abandonment, but he's a brooder, and he's not good at putting events behind him and moving on. And neither, it seems, is Cassie.

4. I'm going to answer this later in a separate comment!

5. I think Mircea was pushing for what he wanted. The 'Night Out' suited his agenda, but I think it left Cassie even more confused over her feelings. I think Mircea just wanted to get laid LOL!

6. Oh, interesting!! I was thinking about this after I read it. I think Cassie might assume that Mircea is talking about Horatiu, though I guess we all assume it's really Dory he's meaning. But Cassie might believe she has an explanation and doesn't need to question further (though she should maybe wonder why Mircea doesn't just say his name.) I think this is a classic act of diplomatic misdirection from Mircea. I've no idea what he might have said if Cassie had out and out asked him (e.g. if she'd said "Are you talking about Horatiu?") I wonder if he'd have lied or told the truth.

[Aileen]

Lannister, I think that IF she had asked he would have said no, but then directed the conversation to a WHOLE new subject. He is a master of conversation after all.

AND on the conversation you quoted...I think that the reason Mircea gets Cassie so well is partly the bond, and partly that I think he went through the same thing when HIS father died, and then his wife, and the betrayal of his brother, and all the other events from around when he was first cursed. I think that he wasn't talking about himself NOW, but how he felt then, which is why I think Mircea gets Cassie on a level Pritkin can't. Since (to me) he NEVER had a family at all, his mother died in childbirth (right...?) and his father was never a father, more of a...user. Yeah, user is a good word for Rosier, AND his wife was a user too, if I recall correctly. SO. Mircea had a family to lose, and did, Cassie did too. I think that THAT connection right there brings Cassie and Mircea together on a whole different level. To me, Dory to Mircea is like Billy Joe to Cassie. Not exactly the same, obviously (and not calling him BJ, sorry Lannister, but when I first saw that I was like AM I FORGETTING A CHARACTER??? WHO IS BJ????) but I see Billy as more than just Cassie's friend, they are family.

[Lannister]

I also see BJ OK, fine, Billy Joe, as family. Maybe not quite like Dory & Mircea, but there's definitely a familial vibe in their banter and bitching at each other (maybe not so much when he leers at her, but even that's done in a jokey kind of way.) I think Cassie & BJ's relationship is different because they've never had the angst or the problems that Dory & Mircea have. A parent/child relationship is always going to be different to a brother/sister one, because the parent is the authority figure, and Cassie & Billy don't have that between them.

I do agree that Cassie & Mircea share a connection over losing their families. Yet (to play Devil's Advocate), Mircea admits Cassie feels betrayal. I'd say Pritkin feels betrayed by his father (and I agree 'user' is a good word for Rosier). I also think if Pritkin would get over his wife, he'd see that she might have been something of a user too.

Actually, Pritkin and Mircea both seem to let the past dictate their behaviour to a degree. I do wonder if Pritkin might have moved on if he was able to form new relationships, but because Daddy's restrictions prevented that, he seems stuck in the past brooding over his dead wife too. Hmmm ... just like Mircea!

[Josie]

Interesting points about why Mircea "gets" Cassie. I never considered that he sees it because he does it, and felt betrayed himself.

4) I definitely think she recognises Cassie! Especially after her parting words "But this isn't your fight"

[Lannister]

I need to remember to write up my thoughts about Artemis tonight.

On Cassie and Mircea, they do have a lot in common, for instance:

Mircea is very protective of his family. Cassie doesn't have a family of her own, but look how she tries to help Tami and the Misfit kids, as well as donating energy to Billy Joe, to give him a fuller existence.

Mircea spend centuries brooding over his dead wife and his murdering brother Drac. Even from early on in the books, it's obvious Cassie thinks about her parents and their deaths a lot.

Mircea sought revenge on Drac by trapping him in a box for centuries. Cassie couldn't physically fight Tony, so she sought revenge by framing him for tax evasion.

They've both achieved positions of great power in their worlds by somewhat unconventional means (e.g. Mircea was cursed, rather than turned by a master, and Cassie took a very unusual route to becoming Pythia).

Despite all this, I still don't think they'll have a HEA!!

[Zeenat]

chapter 16 to 25:

1) is Billy Joe right to not trust Mircea with Cassie? Since he doesn't like any man near Cassie, do you think he would approve of Pritkin?

2) What were Pritkin's thoughts when Cassie was taping him up?

3) Ragnarok. who do you think will be fenrir and Odin? when will the final event occur?

4) Mircea does not trust Pritkin. Do you think it's just jealousy or are his concerns valid?

5) is it possible to convince vampires that humans can be more than servants, prey or threats? Pritkin views vampire world/logic as wrong, but Cassie shrugs it off as it is what it is. what are your thoughts on Vampire culture in the Cassie/Dory world?

[Duca]

good questions Zeenat! Especially since they're some I've pondered myself frequently (can you guess which one? lol)

1) Yes. Just yes. And I'm not sure if BJ approves of Pritkin yet, but I have a feeling that all the life-saving (and by extension, saving BJ's afterlife fun) is getting him there. I haven't forgotten that he didn't really like the mage at first (but then again neither did Cassie!) though I don't really remember him ever saying outright 'I don't freaking trust that guy at all!'etc either. I think I remember him asking Cassie if she thought she could trust him (god my memory is lousy) but my brain is giving me the vague impression that when he was talking about Pritkin in regards to trust, it was more of a joint decision he was trying to make with Cassie. When he spoke about Mircea, I got the feeling he was more telling Cassie she shouldn't trust him, rather than asking what she thought. Feel free to prove me wrong and find the passages in the first few books regarding this, I'm really curious about this now (and my stupid brain is incapable of remembering anything!)

2)OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO
*coughs*fantasisingaboutblowjob*coughs*

3)I highly doubt we've met either of them yet. I mean who knows KC could pull a fast one on us and Odin could turn out to be Anthony in disguise (LOL) but since Apollo was only introduced when he came in...
do you think a werewolf as Fenrir is too obvious?
I actually just googled something for fun and got quite sidetracked but it's related - google came up with a rather intriguing tidbit... tell me this doesn't give you shivers:
"Hel and her ghostly army were going to support the other gods at Ragnarok, after which her domain would go out in flames." (source: http://www.rosala-viking-centre.com/g...) (has this been found before? idk)
Anyway back to the question, I think the showdown is gonna be in the last book :P And to keep my answer short I think Odin will be someone blood related to Cassie, through her mother's side.

4) I think it's 99% jealousy and 1% annoyance at the great know-it-all not being able to find out anything regarding Pritkin's identity :P I could hear that pissy undertone when he was trying to make Pritkin look dodgy "despite all of Kit’s efforts, he has been unable to discover anything about the man before the last century!!!!1111" lmao Mircea bless, that's because you don't have any demonic informants! For him that was practically ruffled. (I'm laughing I just realised all he would have to do is open his mouth and ask Casanova and he'd get his info HAHAHA)

5)Vampire culture sucks >:( They outcast my lovely Dory for centuries and it took some reeeeally sneaky wordplay by the Consul to get them to accept her as their senator (although technically we still haven't seen the repercussions of that so I'm reserving judgment for the time being)
LC is a special exception, but he was raised fairly far outside vamp culture so he's the exception that proves the rule. Vamps are quite set in their ways so I don't think change is imminent... but it's not impossible imo. If it did happen, it would take a loooong time to infiltrate the whole culture. You do get exceptions like Radu and his bodyguard and I doubt they're the first vamp/human couple in the world, but I imagine they're few and far between in vamp culture at large.

Sorry I'm being so talkative aaaaaahhh

[Lannister]

My take on the questions:

1. I'm not 100% convinced that Billy doesn't want any man near Cassie. I know it might seem that way, but in fact Billy's instincts have been pretty reliable. He distrusted Tomas, and was proved right about that. He distrusts Mircea but so have most of us! Mircea's motivations are not crystal clear and I think Billy is right to be sceptical of him. Maybe Billy's doubts are actually A Clue from KC! I can't remember BJ actually bad-mouthing Pritkin, beyond urging general caution.

2. On Cassie's first aid, I think Pritkin's emotions are still firmly entrenched in self-loathing. I think he was bemused at her tending to him, partly because of his own esteem issues, and partly because he probably thinks that he's the one who's supposed to be looking out for her. I'm pretty sure that he spent some time afterwards thinking about when her hands were on him!!

3. On Ragnarok, I had assumed at first that Fenrir would be a were. It seemed to tie in perfectly with the fact that KC has a side series featuring weres. But Jonas said that was probably too obvious. I don't know if Jonas is correct or if this is a bluff from KC. I'm tending to think we haven't seen the 'Fenrir' character anywhere yet, but when we do, they'll be connected in some way to an existing character. I think Odin is a god like Apollo, but I suspect the Fey (i.e. Asshat's father) might be in contact with him in some way. I don't think Odin is anyone in disguise, as I believe he's still outside the world with the rest of the gods.

4. On Mircea and Pritkin, whilst I wouldn't go quite as far as to say Mircea is jealous of Pritkin (I think Mircea's ego is too big for jealousy!!), I do think he's a little uneasy over Cassie and Pritkin's friendship. And I do think Mircea's doubts are somewhat justified. Pritkin really isn't what he appears and it's understandable that Mircea would be concerned about that. I can't entirely fault him for the conclusions he reaches in Hunt the Moon, since they're evidence-based.

5. Cassie's view on vamps is clouded by her upbringing. Whatever you grow up with is the norm for you. It's other people who are weird! Cassie simply accepts vamp culture the way it is, since for many years that was all she knew.

I don't see things changing in the vamps' attitude toward humans any time soon. If the vamps like and respect a human, they turn them into vamp. If they don't like them, they're merely food. After all, how many humans give a thought to the cow who donated dinner? Why should the vamps feel all that different? It's true they were once human, but I think as the decades roll by, many of them forget that, just as they forget their families and their ties to the normal world.

I find the concept of the Senates and their formation quite interesting. I can see why Cassie feels the vampire world works, because everyone knows their place in the hierarchy and the fear of punishment looms if they step out of line. Yet we also see vamps like Alejandro, who was an utter monster. And even Anthony, whom I love, had (until very recently) absolute iron control over his Senate. Who watches the watchers?

The lower ranking vamps in the books are sometimes referred to as 'slaves' or 'property' and I think this is apt. These vamps have no freedom of movement, and possibly not even freedom of thought, since the master is in their heads too! How can we expect vamps to respect humans when they barely respect their own underlings? I dislike oppression and vamp culture is steeped in it. Yet how could the Senates keep control of everyone if they didn't use a 'might makes right' tactic. For every enlightened LC, there is a Alejandro or a Lawrence.

[Josie]

LOL, Pritkin was so getting turned on when Cassie was cleaning and bandaging his injury!

Some blood had dried around his belly button. I scrubbed at it with a fingernail until it came off. "Is he dead?"
"What?" Pritkin sounded a little strange.

***

He broke off, probably because I'd gotten the rag a little too wet that time. "Sorry," I said, wiping up the dribbles below the wound before they wet the front of his jeans. He closed his eyes.

And then he gets angry to try to make her hurry up so she won't see his... erm *cough* excitement ;)

[Kat]

"I'm not worried about a damn infection!"
I'm worried about coming in my pants with you watching

You know he was thinking it.

[Josie]

LMAO!! That is exactly what he was thinking!

[Duca]

I was totally thinking that too Kat! Dirty minds think alike :P