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message 51:
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[deleted user]
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Oct 26, 2008 01:36AM
Come to think of it, the message may be the same as the biblical message in the story of Lot, "don't look back".
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I can tell from the above what is making you sad; I had a sad moment tonight as well; but just get back to the present and this too shall pass.
Life is just a series of coincidences.
Bentley
In my never-ending search to understand Don Quixote I googled Aristotle and Don Quixote and came up with some interesting ideas that apply to H, the definition of history and the election. I've found myself analyzing the election as though it were literature. What are the underlying themes and implications? How does philosophy explain what's going on? Then, it occurred to me that this is not literature, this is fact, or is it? This is what I found...
In the Poetics, Aristotle is interested in history only as a counterexample to poetry, which he regards as a "more philosophical and a higher thing than history". One can say that for Aristotle history is inferior to poetry because history has no plot. Instead, it is episodic, lacking any probably or necessary sequence by which to make events intelligible. The advantage of poetry is its capacity to reveal the inner logic or coherence of events by connecting them in a probably or necessary order. Thus poetry compensates for the deficiencies of history or of empirical reality, which remains irrational and accidental.
In this way Aristotle clearly issues a challenge to historians, who since antiquity have responded by embarking on what might be called the quest for the plot of history.
Moreover, Polybius insists on the pragmatic or "apodeictic" function of history whereby the historian reveals the causes and connections of past events:
The peculiar function of history is to discover, in the first place, the words actually spoken, whatever they were, and the next to ascertain the reason why what was done or spoken led to failure or successs. For the mere statement of a fact may interest us but is of no benefit to us: but when we add the cause of it, study of history becomes fruitful.
So, perhaps the analysis of history and literature are not so far apart? H, it seems to me is a little bit of both and although he's been criticized for that, it might actually be his strength. When I think of the election, there does seem to be a sort of narrative to it. At least in retrospect. I haven't fully processed these ideas yet, but I thought I'd share them as they seem so applicable to an understanding of H.
In the Poetics, Aristotle is interested in history only as a counterexample to poetry, which he regards as a "more philosophical and a higher thing than history". One can say that for Aristotle history is inferior to poetry because history has no plot. Instead, it is episodic, lacking any probably or necessary sequence by which to make events intelligible. The advantage of poetry is its capacity to reveal the inner logic or coherence of events by connecting them in a probably or necessary order. Thus poetry compensates for the deficiencies of history or of empirical reality, which remains irrational and accidental.
In this way Aristotle clearly issues a challenge to historians, who since antiquity have responded by embarking on what might be called the quest for the plot of history.
Moreover, Polybius insists on the pragmatic or "apodeictic" function of history whereby the historian reveals the causes and connections of past events:
The peculiar function of history is to discover, in the first place, the words actually spoken, whatever they were, and the next to ascertain the reason why what was done or spoken led to failure or successs. For the mere statement of a fact may interest us but is of no benefit to us: but when we add the cause of it, study of history becomes fruitful.
So, perhaps the analysis of history and literature are not so far apart? H, it seems to me is a little bit of both and although he's been criticized for that, it might actually be his strength. When I think of the election, there does seem to be a sort of narrative to it. At least in retrospect. I haven't fully processed these ideas yet, but I thought I'd share them as they seem so applicable to an understanding of H.
Mod
McCain's speech showed gallant resignation and was very poetic in some ways depicting the valiant war hero who rises to the occasion.
I haven't figured out the narrative to this election yet; but in life there always is one.
Bentley
Not sure if you were referring to Jesse Jackson's tears but those tears...don't think they were tears of happiness! LOL!
Yes, it will take a while to figure out this current narrative and I have a hunch that once things start happening, for better or worse, it will change the narrative we perceive today. And, of course, everyone will have their own POV. Truth is so slippery!
Yes, it will take a while to figure out this current narrative and I have a hunch that once things start happening, for better or worse, it will change the narrative we perceive today. And, of course, everyone will have their own POV. Truth is so slippery!
message 56:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Nov 05, 2008 10:52AM)
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rated it 4 stars
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I think Jesse Jackson is happy for Obama although he has many personal regrets.
I think this is a great step forward for minorities and for young people and I feel that way after watching their faces and their reactions to Obama's victory. I always have liked McCain and nobody can doubt that he handled his loss with dignity and class.
And the country will still have him as a Senator.
I know Vanessa that you are disappointed and I admit that the decision was a tortured one for me; but in the final analysis; the election thank goodness is over and the next presidency is on its way towards its own separate journey. Let us see what he (Obama) and the American people make of it. I have given him a clean slate as of today.
Bentley
message 66
I think that's a great analogy, to Carter. I'm afraid that what follows will be another parallel.
I think that's a great analogy, to Carter. I'm afraid that what follows will be another parallel.
message 69
I understood what you meant. I think the desire for "change" , in and of itself, is not necessarily a good thing. Both Carter and Obama had little experience and almost no accomplishments. I think Carter was one of (if not the worst) presidents we ever had, no matter how well-intentioned and honest. His weakness in dealing with foreign countries, his naivete about the world, the economy, etc. led to a terrible time.
Well, they didn't blow up Grant Park so hopefully this is just one more of the 99% of things that I worry about that does not happen!
I understood what you meant. I think the desire for "change" , in and of itself, is not necessarily a good thing. Both Carter and Obama had little experience and almost no accomplishments. I think Carter was one of (if not the worst) presidents we ever had, no matter how well-intentioned and honest. His weakness in dealing with foreign countries, his naivete about the world, the economy, etc. led to a terrible time.
Well, they didn't blow up Grant Park so hopefully this is just one more of the 99% of things that I worry about that does not happen!
message 59:
by
Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Nov 05, 2008 10:50AM)
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rated it 4 stars
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The world is very excited about Barack Obama and he has a bit of a leg up because of that. I think he is a lot smarter than McCain (book smart) and I think he will bring good people into his administration. I am sorry to say that Palin (McCain's decision) was not a good one in terms of anxieties about McCain's age or the difficult world environment.
Oldesq, I am delighted that this was decided officially by 11PM. What an eight year relief.
Grant Park was very much alive last night and it is still with us today. (lol).
Vanessa, things are the same as they were yesterday.
Bentley
Mod
