Is Grammar like...

[Summer]

...manners or traffic laws? Or both?

By this I mean, something you take pride in or somthing you flout when you get the chance.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

Take pride in.....every time.

[Summer]

I take pride if I'm writing formally and flout, flout, flout if I'm writing informally. In papers, I enjoy employing subtle assonance and using semi colons. In Internet chat, I take pleasure in seasoning my conversations with non-standard contractions (snot, sreally, proly), abbreviations (ppl, bc), and emoticons. I think my generation was on the cusp of the digital age. (We got a home computer when I was ten years old.) I have noticed that my younger classmates seem to be annoyed by grammar. I am annoyed by APA format; MLA format makes more sense to me.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

So it's generational? I must be an old fart then!!!!

[Ken, Moderator]

Agreed. You have to EARN the right to flout.

[Ruth]

Same thing I used to tell my drawing students.

[Mark]

''Grammars are like, you know, whatever.''

[Boreal Elizabeth]

syntax please
could we move in the syntax

over there
put the prepositional phrases over there

now where is that dangling participle...

dang
this group is going to the dogs ;)

[Ken, Moderator]

We have sin taxes here in Mass. Tax the hell out of cigarettes ("hell" being a hidden ingredient, per the Freedom of Information Act in Porter v. Phillip Morris).

[Obododimma]

how seriously a grammar can mar one's fun in language if it scolds and raves like grandma convinced about the bestness of good old days ...

[Ken, Moderator]

Agreed, O. No scolding. That's for grammar mavens and sticklers. As for the "bestness" of the good old days, it's a myth we all cherish. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

There is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes.

[Carol]

When all is said and done; Done is what you say.

[Scout]

I've always likened grammar to math: Follow the rules, and you'll get it right.

[Scout]

I have to say, though, that being right and being creative don't usually jibe.

[Scout]

I'm not an artist, so I've wondered about this for a while, especially when looking at modern art. If there are rules in art, and artists who know the rules can then ignore them in order to create something new, how does one know, when looking at a work of art, whether the artist knew the rules to begin with? Is this something only trained artists or experts can discern?

[Ruth]

If the work of art is successful do you think it matters if the artist broke or ignored something which is perceived as a "rule?"

[Scout]

Sorry, Ruth. I should have made it clear that I was responding to Gabi's comment:

"Especially in art. As previously stated , way up there, you have know the rules before you decide to break any of them."

[Scout]

Gabi, I'd still love to have you answer my question, as you are (I'm assuming) a working artist.

[Jan]

Is grammar like grampa....or does grammar like grampa or should we move these to unanswerable questions...and which came first the grammar or the grammarian ...and is this rambling of my thoughts verging on grammarless...or should that be grammarlessness...and if I'm grammarless does that make me some kind of orphan...or does this belong in stream of consciousness...I'd better stop before I confuse everybody, confuse myself,...Confucius say...
No point going to bed early to save candles if the result is twins....twins...do they have a grammar...
Is grammar like...

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

Jan's gone troppo........

[M]

Scout, no wonder I was never any good at grammar. It's like math! Every time I tried to divide by zero, I came up with an answer that didn't make any sense.

[Jan]

But you can multiply by zero, as many times as you like.

[M]

I went forth and multiplied and have nothing to show for it.

[Jan]

What would happen if you got scared half to death,twice?

[M]

I guess it would depend on whether I had been thrilled to death in the meantime.

[Jan]

Visit this group often enough and you might die laughing.

[M]

My uncle Mort drowned in a barrel of whiskey. When they cremated him, he burned for three days.

[Jan]

That name means death in France...
Poor man had no chance.

[Summer]

Scout wrote: "Gabi, I'd still love to have you answer my question, as you are (I'm assuming) a working artist."

I'm not a working artist, but was trained as a dancer. When I watch dance, I develop an opinion if the dancer has talent or technique or both. Generally I find my guess is right about the technique. I suppose opinions about talent are subjective. I might enjoy the performances of trained vs untrained dancers equally.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

What sort of dance Summer?

[Summer]

Debbie wrote: "What sort of dance Summer?"

Ballet until puberty and latin ballroom after. It was mostly for fun, but I did place second in the only two amateur ballroom competitions I entered. I'm not one for the stage. I like social dancing better. My sister did rope me into performing with her company when they had a last minute spot to fill a few years ago. I wound up dancing as a rag doll at the local premiere of Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium. Thankfully, I didn't have to go on pointe. I'm not sure I could safely on short notice. It was quite terrifying to be dancing with girls half my age and after not doing it for so long, but exhilarating too. Afterwards, I felt triumphant, but very, very sore. It was a short piece but we danced it many times and I had to flop on the hard, tiled, dirty, movie theater floor at the end of it. I won't be doing that again. I proved I could do it and next time I can say no.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

Sounds like fun! Bet you enjoyed it really!
I love ballet.

[M]

A nice thing about ballet is that even if, like me, you don't have a clue what's going on, there are great legs to look at. Opera's a different problem. I tried to like opera. I listened to Mom's opera tapes. Opera sounds like somebody trying to write a song but never finding a melody.

[Ruth]

The arias have melody. Often gorgeous melody. It's the in-between stuff (recitative?) that doesn't. I enjoy listening to recordings of arias, but not whole entire lengthy ongoing, ongoing, ongoing operas.

[M]

I had a funny feeling somebody would point that out about arias. I didn't mention it because it didn't seem to help my argument any.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

I feel the same Ruth....love the arias, but find it tedious to sit through a whole opera.

[M]

O body swayed to music, O brightening glance,
How can we know the dancer from the dance?
--William Butler Yeats, "Among School Children"

[TheGirlBytheSeaofCortez]

What Richard Gere told Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman" really is true: If you don't love opera, you can learn to enjoy it, but you'll never love and enjoy it as much as someone who falls in love with it straight off.

I'm paraphrasing, of course.

I love the whole opera. Always have, though of course the arias have the most emotional pull. "Nessun Dorma" is my favorite.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

That piece of Yeats is gorgeous M.

[M]

Thank you, Debbie. I was so awestruck by Yeats that I never graduated from early modern to contemporary poetry.

[Jan]

I must be slightly dyslexic this morning...at first glance I read Debbie's comment as:

The price of yeast is gorgeous M.

And I thought, 'What has gorgeous M got to do with it?', so I had to read it again. Just now I had to correct my own spelling as I had used one 'e' too many and written 'goregeous M'.

[M]

Jan, I just realized it's already the next day for you. It's still Saturday night here, and not very late. The difference between gorgeous and goregeous is a telling one. I'm bloodsoaked. I have to figure out why. Red is the color of introverted feeling, which is how I type. Anyone who doesn't think women have all the answers hasn't asked them many questions.

[Jan]

But I still don't have the answer to your puzzle in opposites attract. Despite the clue, I remain clueless.
But I hope you liked some of my creative guesses.

[M]

Summer, I just dropped in to say hi. You must be out dancing.

[Summer]

MrsSeby wrote: "I love the whole opera. Always have, though of course the arias have the most emotional pull."

I have never been to the opera. I've been to dinner shows where opera is sung, but not to the whole on-stage theatrical event. When I read Bel Canto, I sure wanted to though. Last week, I watched The Marx Brothers' A Night at the Opera and I thought that must be a good time. I do like to get dressed up.

[Summer]

M wrote: "Summer, I just dropped in to say hi. You must be out dancing."

Nope. I was learning about wounds.

[TheGirlBytheSeaofCortez]

Summer wrote: "MrsSeby wrote: "I love the whole opera. Always have, though of course the arias have the most emotional pull."

I have never been to the opera. I've been to dinner shows where opera is sung, bu..."

We get season tickets to the opera. It's fun, and it's fun to go to supper afterward, but yes, you really have to dress up. I don't dress up any more than when we go to the opera.

[Sandy]

When writing I always break the gerund rule. To have a character say, "Is this to do with your being in love with her?" sounds so stuffy.

[Ken, Moderator]

Does this have anything to do with your being in love with her? Doesn't sound stuffy to me. Turkeys and teddy bears sound stuffy -- not gerunds (a different animal altogether!).

[Barbara]

I like gerunds too, in fact I might be in love with one