Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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June Read 2011: Conquest
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And the frightening thing is, I totally agree with that. :-D
The best Chinese food in the world is in Singapore and Hongkong. :)
Cleon wrote: "The best Chinese food in the world is in Singapore and Hongkong. :)"Be careful, Cleon, you'll start an argument. LOL
I've never been to Singapore, but yeah, I've had some amazing stuff in Hong Kong.
Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "The best Chinese food in the world is in Singapore and Hongkong. :)"Be careful, Cleon, you'll start an argument. LOL
I've never been to Singapore, but yeah, I've had some amazing ..."
Anthony Bourdain can back me up when it comes to Singapore. lol.
I've had a 4-day weekend vacation and I had some time to cook - I usually don't spend too much time cooking, but I added a couple of secret ingredients and I changed the order of cooking to my mozzarella and cherry-tomato pasta and it was wicked good and it smelled great. I am so happy with myself. I'm not even going to tell my mom how I did it :-)
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All I know is, that sounds delicious.
wow... talk about running off on total tangents! :D After CUTYS, I thought I'd start on this month's book. I'm about 100 pages in, and it is interesting enough to keep me reading, but there are quite a few writing flaws. Most seem to be new author type, but some are basic story set up and delivery. The dialog isn't bad (isn't real in some cases), but there is just far too much detail... in minutia. The characters at this point are fairly cliche, from Jesse and Evan to Tim (the jerk), and the POV switching constantly is giving me whiplash.
Mod
Well it's already the 25th in Australia and I think that's the date we can start talking about Conquest. I'm about 1/3 way through it. It's as flamboyant and OTT at the first time I read it. Definitely chicks with dicks in this one. But I like it. The sub-genre of rock n roll MM romance does seem to follow this style of writing (e.g. Black Gold, Heaven, American Love Songs). I'm trying to figure out what real life band they remind me of. Maybe more 70's & 80's rock bands than modern groups! More Aerosmith than Kings of Leon?;)
It's discussion day, and there's nothing but crickets in here! So, what did everyone think of Conquest?I was kind of meh about it at first. Evan and Jesse fell in love so quickly, so easily, with no roadblocks along the way. People who could have caused problems for them, like Trish and Tim, ended up being pretty toothless. There was a lot more description than I prefer, and I'm not a fan of long stretches of original lyrics within a story.
That said, the story really took off for me when Evan and Jesse broke up. Their misery was much more real to me than their earlier happiness, and it made me root for them to get back together. I even teared up a bit as Evan and Jesse fell apart, which really surprised me, because I wasn't all that invested in them earlier in the book.
Conquest is the first in a series. I took a look, and the next book in the focuses on Evan and Jesse, too, and then moves on to other characters. This one was pretty light on plot, and it makes me wonder if the second book will be any beefier. I'm not set against continuing with the series, but I'm not racing out to get it, either. In my opinion Conquest falls in the middle of the pack.
Hi everyone. Would have posted sooner, but was having an issue with it not going through. These are some of my thoughts on Conquest.
Before it became the June choice I had read it twice, and then read it again for this discussion. I find this book to be one of pure entertainment. Yet I also know it will be possible for me to agree with most of the misgivings that many of you will mention as the discussion continues. I have seen the reviews on Goodreads and Amazon concerning all manner of problems with this first novel from S. J. Frost, and much of what was brought out is valid.
But even with that said, this book worked for me as a romantic, love story between two highly engaging MC's. There were well fleshed out secondary characters, humor, a good dollop of angst (which I always find most enjoyable), and plenty of hot sex. In other words, one of my definitions of pure entertainment!
@ Becky - I did read the next in the series, No Fear, which continues where Conquest left off. It definitely resolved some open issues. Then after that is Keys to Love, which is Julian's story. Both quite enjoyable.
I do occasionally enjoy a good angst-fest. That's probably why the last 25% was so much better for me than the rest.I liked Brandon quite a bit, and I was hoping that he and Julian might get together. But from peeking at the blurbs for the rest of the series, it doesn't look like that happens.
Susan wrote: "Er, no. Sorry."Ah, well. I liked both Brandon and Julian, so it doesn't disappoint me to know that they each get a story. (As long as their partners are worthy of them. If not, I might have to go back to shipping them again.)
I think you will be pleased with how S.J. writes both their stories, but I do agree that their pairing would have been nice. Btw - her most recent book, Black Heart Down is about 2 members of that band. I believe they are first brought into the storyline in No Fear. In this latest, it is obvious that Frost has come a long way in her ability to tell a tighter story.
Becky wrote: "I was kind of meh about it at first. Evan and Jesse fell in love so quickly, so easily, with no roadblocks along the way. People who could have caused problems for them, like Trish and Tim, ended up being pretty toothless. "Unfortunately I kept that feeling all through the book.
The writing kept me reading as did some of the characterisations ... but on a whole, the characters were too perfect, there were no real conflicts and any problems were solved far too quickly and neatly, without any pain.
It was really not my sort of book. It didn't work for me.
Though the emotions after the break up were written in a real tear-jerker way, I kept feeling dissatisfied.
The first part of the story was about how well these two men clicked, how well they fit together, knew each other ... and then to suddenly break up in such a contrived way? There was no way I could believe that.
I also found it strange that while one of them broke up, the other suddenly felt he needed to become stronger or he didn't deserve him? My suspension of disbelief was stretched to breaking point.
I really liked the fluid way of writing and she certainly knows how to draw emotions, but I'm not going to read the rest of the series, because this sort of story is not for me.
This is what I wrote in my review when I read it.Like Becky, although I never stopped enjoying the story, I liked the last half of the book a lot more than the first half. At the beginning a lot of things seemed a bit too much, like Jesse's self-awareness and the way Jesse and Evan fell in love. When the story showed a conflict and when Jesse and Evan separated, the story became much more compelling.
As I said before, Jesse is very self-confident, almost arrogant and probably with good reason, since he's incredibly sexy, gifted and handsome. I wasn't able to really like him until he showed his weakness when he was falling apart after Evan sent him away and when he took care of Evan with generous care.
I think the most selfless thing Jesse did was giving himself to Evan while he (Jesse) was drunk on his birthday. While reading I was so disapproving, because I thought it was Evan who was taking advantage of Jesse, but it's not so easy to see who was really taking advantage in that situation. In retrospect it's maybe the best scene of the whole book.
I felt much closer to Evan, even if I wanted to slap him when he said to Jesse it was over. While I must confess that I didn't trust Jesse in their relationship, because of his arrogance, I thought it was plausible for Evan to fall in love so quickly with someone as attractive and passionate as Jesse, because I think the author was able to convey the emptiness of the world in which Evan lived. I think the beautiful things he bought, the mega-mansion where he lived, all of these were ways to express his need of having his life filled with something and when Jesse came along with his music and enthusiasm, it was inevitable that Evan welcomed him so completely.
Brandon, Jesse's brother, was a very interesting character and I'd like to read a whole book about him. The women in the book are not positive characters, I resented it a little bit, some of Jesse's comments about Trish would have irked me too (even if Trish is a bit sleazy).
There are a couple of reasons why I'm not giving a full rating: the POV switching was dealt very well at the beginning, but then it was more random, I prefer when the transitions between one character to another are smoother and have a regular pattern. Sometimes the descriptions of places and clothes seemed taken out of a magazine, but this is really a personal preference because I prefer when the author focuses on a couple of important items of clothing, for example, and lets me imagine the rest.
As Susan said, this book is pure entertainment. The story is very compelling and exciting and the setting is out of a dream, who doesn't like rockstars? I'm glad there are more books of this series, I'm looking forward to reading the way Evan and Jesse's relationship develops.
I perfectly understand Blaine's thoughts. I think there was a bit of "drama-queenism", but the main characters are artists with big egos, so for me it was annoying indeed but I thought it was more or less believable.
Emanuela ~hopeless~ wrote: "I thought it was plausible for Evan to fall in love so quickly with someone as attractive and passionate as Jesse, because I think the author was able to convey the emptiness of the world in which Evan lived."This resonated with me also. I am no fan of the idea of insta-love, but the coming together of these two felt right from the first, although I was sure the scene was going to have its detractors. Many, myself included, like our MC's to struggle somewhat towards that initial moment, and obviously with Jesse and Evan that was not the case.
I had other issues with that scene concerning some of the sexual activities, but otherwise I thought the author did an excellent job showing the depth of their emotions towards each other.
Hi Susan....I changed my name to Susan65... now the confusion between us can be layed to rest.
Susan65 wrote: "Hi Susan....I changed my name to Susan65... now the confusion between us can be layed to rest."Thanks, Susan65. I appreciate that! :)
I needed to have taken notes or something because I read it earlier in the month & a lot of it didn't stay with me. I remember liking it well enough but it didn't push me to want to read the next in the series. I know I didn't care for all the head hopping. It was annoying and gave the book a kind of amateur writing quality. I'm also not a huge fan of overwrought writing style and could have done without all the lyrics being totally spelled out in the book. This just felt like word count padding because it certainly didn't add anything to the story. In this case I'd prefer to be told that they were songwriters rather than shown. No need to show it to get me to believe it.
I don't see this as the kind of book I'd pick up on my own as I'm not really into the whole rock star fantasy thing (although I do love music). I do have Reverb as a challenge book though so I'll get to compare the approach taken for each book.
I made it somewhere about 30% of the way in, iirc. That was it. And then there were a stack of JCP and more Kimberling and other books waiting for me. I get so little reading time that I have to guard it jealously. And I realize I'm sacrificing sleep, chores, hobbies, tv, movies, theater, sports, outdoors, socializing (some), cooking (some) and a whole lot of other things for my reading habit.
So I know I'm much less patient and indulgent than most. Plain old fatigue and stress make me even less so, the crunch of RL. I need good writing and have little forgiveness for books that err so egregiously in their lack of it, lack of characters I might care about or a fresh story that could hold my interest.
Yvonne described the writing style as overwrought, which is exactly right.
The main protagonist Jesse was utterly unlikable to me -- an asshole to his bandmates, arrogant in his expectation of success, his good looks ("even if half the world wanted Evan, the world hadn't gotten a look at Jesse yet, and when it did just as many people would want him too"). Sure, perhaps that was child-like confidence-building. And perhaps he did get better later, as some have said.
But a super rich 27 -- going on 14 -- year old musician whose idea of cool is to collect expensive, fancy cars doesn't get me interested either. How shallow is this guy? Where are the Bono's of the mm world? Where are the socially responsible, the intelligent, the mature? I long for an mm novel with grown ups in it.
Because if there isn't anything redeemable or likable about either of the characters, there had better be some hellaciously gorgeous writing, some incredibly imaginative plots, hell, I don't know -- something, anything, that would make me want to turn the page.
Thirty percent in, there just wasn't.
ns wrote: "I made it somewhere about 30% of the way in, iirc. That was it. And then there were a stack of JCP and more Kimberling and other books waiting for me. I get so little reading time that I have to ..."
Your review about summed it up for me as well. I did not care for either Jesse or Evan and had to stop reading about a third of the way in.
I read the whole thing and found it quite easy to read although I skipped over most of the (many) sex scenes. Main problem for me was the insta-love. I’m not one for the love on first sight plot in my romance novels. It can work and did so in When Irish Eyes Are Sparkling and The Curtis Reincarnation, but these had other things going for them in the plot. In Conquest Jesse and Evan fell in love and then… what? Nothing really happened.
There were a lot of possibilities for conflict in this story (relationship to their parents, Jesse and his friend Kenny, being gay in the music industry, Tim making trouble, Ben suggesting they break up, Trish etc.). For me those sketched possible conflicts seemed to appear on the horizon and vanish as soon as I noticed them. Even the major (or only) conflict in the book, their break-up, felt staged to me. It reminded me of a common trope in Regency romance novels and I didn’t think it would be used in contemporary setting.
Of all the characters I liked Brandon, Julian and Ben most. Jesse was just to good to be true (musical prodigy, straight A student, outgoing, beautiful, everybody likes him), but his one flaw, his oversized confidence (or was it even arrogance), made him nearly impossible to like for me.
I don’t think that I will read the following books in this series. Though I find it very interesting how different one book is perceived from several readers.
Mod
About five minutes after I had posted my comments, I regretted them and wanted to come back and delete them. Merith had already commented in reply, however, and I eventually decided to leave them there. I feel they're much too harsh, and mindful of some of the discussion that's occurred on this forum in the past month on the subject of giving feedback, Nicole's column on beta reviewers and just the turmoil any negative reviews throw authors into, I want very much to tone it down, rephrase it, somehow say what I want to say without hurting anyone's feelings. Not easy :(
I was thinking about this and just eventually gave up. The best option is really to not say anything (at least in public) to begin with, isn't it?
I have the feeling at the end of this exercise I'll have a room full of authors who want to punch me :). And really, I'd let them. I do really want them to succeed so very much. I'm glad there are others who enjoyed their books and praised them. I really am. It lessens my guilt.
I don't think this was so bad. You focused on the problems with the book, on the flaws you saw, without any personal attacks on the author. I can't speak for her, but as an author I can accept criticism that is specific and makes sense and is aimed at particular issues in one book, if the critic stays concrete and doesn't get personal. All due respect to Nicole, but I don't need wounded hamster treatment, and I think most other authors can handle honest criticism too (unless it's a first book, perhaps). In fact, I learned more from some of the specific criticisms of Lies and Consequences than from the positive reviews. So don't go totally silent, okay?
Kaje wrote: "I don't think this was so bad. You focused on the problems with the book, on the flaws you saw, without any personal attacks on the author. I can't speak for her, but as an author I can accept cr..."Thanks for the feedback, Kaje, I hear ya..
ns wrote: "I was thinking about this and just eventually gave up. The best option is really to not say anything (at least in public) to begin with, isn't it? "Hmm, that's an interesting question. Depends on what the goal of these discussions is, I guess. I certainly hope that reviewers don't take this attitude, for example. I generally prefer negative or mixed reviews.
To me there's a big difference between saying "I didn't like this and here's why" and just tearing something down for the joy of it. As a reader I want to know the good and the bad when I look at reviews. I want a balanced perspective. That doesn't mean that everyone has to be comfortable with sharing a negative opinion. I've been know to re-write posts a time or three because I was afraid they came off too harsh. But I do think that the negative is just as legitimate as the positive, and has just as much room in a discussion like this.
Charming wrote: "Hmm, that's an interesting question. Depends on what the goal of these discussions is, I guess. I certainly hope that reviewers don't take this attitude, for example. I generally prefer negative or mixed reviews. "Are you saying that as an author? Or a reader? And if you're saying that as an author, is it true of your own reviews or also that of others?
If this were a forum of just readers, there would be no issue, of course. But if it's a forum where the author might be present, and is now sort of getting hauled over the coals in front of her/his peers, that would be another matter, right?
I'm trained in my day job to not give feedback unless it's solicited, or warranted for some reason, and even then, to do so privately.
As a private reader, my thinking is generally: "why would the author care for my opinion when she/he doesn't know me from adam?" I'm not an academic or professional reviewer.
If they have not asked for my opinion, it does go against my conditioning to evaluate their work in public critically (although I've done that quite a bit on this forum now).
It's much harder to do if you know the person or are face-to-face with the person, so to speak. And it's also much harder to do when you don't know what the author is like, and whether they will feel bad, have a cow, fall apart, welcome your comments, accept your feedback gracefully or want to punch you.
I have seen reasonably mild review comments on the Internet provoke some authors to complete meltdowns, rare though that is. While most authors are pretty receptive and gracious, I can't help thinking I'm committing some sort of intimately unkind act, all in all, despite repeated assurances to the contrary.
ns wrote: "Charming wrote: "Hmm, that's an interesting question. Depends on what the goal of these discussions is, I guess. I certainly hope that reviewers don't take this attitude, for example. I generally p..."You're right of course. But then we should ask ourselves what's the purpose of this Book of the Month discussion if we're reluctant to discuss negative aspects of a book in fear of offending the author. Should this discussion be made private?
Should we only read books by authors who openly states that they do not mind and welcome criticism as well as positive response?
Well, that boils it down neatly, doesn't it? I've never actually participated in a book of the month club which actually had any authors, much less the author of the work under discussion, aware of our existence, so it's new territory for me, at least. The etiquette of such a community isn't really clear to me.
ns wrote: "Well, that boils it down neatly, doesn't it? I've never actually participated in a book of the month club which actually had any authors, much less the author of the work under discussion, aware of..."The internet changes everything, does it? We used to discuss books only with closest friends or local book club. Now, our discussion is open to public scrutiny and I just realized it a few weeks ago.
Also, I often thinks that as an aspiring author whose writing is very far from perfect that I have no business giving critiques to authors who are obviously far better than I am.
ns wrote: "As a private reader, my thinking is generally: "why would the author care for my opinion when she/he doesn't know me from adam?" I'm not an academic or professional reviewer. ..."
They might care if they want you buy their books :)
Although I'll be first to admit that I skipped all the discussions (except for the first one, I think) because I didn't want to write negative things.
They might care if they want you buy their books :)
Although I'll be first to admit that I skipped all the discussions (except for the first one, I think) because I didn't want to write negative things.
I think there is no point in a book of the month club discussion if we can't freely express our opinions. No matter what we write here, this does help the author to get their book out there for more people to read. In the M/M group their book of the month was Hot Head. Because of that there's a lot of reviews out for this book some are raves & a few are quite scathing. In the meantime, it's currently the top bestseller for gay & lesbian ebooks at Amazon. Negative or positive, your book is getting talked about which I think is generally a good thing for the writer.
As an author, I want honest feedback. I've learned most from the negative reviews I've had; sure it hurts a little on the ones that say, "the plot was so clicheed I couldn't finish this" (I had one of those on my self-pub book). But it's a good warning not to overlook plot issues in my quest for great characters. I hope to keep writing, and every comment has a chance of making the next book stronger. ("Cut back on dialog tags" had me diving back into my second book and improving it before it was published.) I feel for authors whose ego is so bound up in the book that they take everything personally, but I don't think that should limit honest critique. And being able to write is not a requirement for being able to read and discuss a book intelligently. (It shouldn't be - I want to know what readers think, not just what a small number of published authors think.)
You know, I went looking at reviews of some of my favorite books, the ones I wish I could come close to writing, and very few didn't have at least one two-star review. It's a good reminder that I could write the book I'm striving for, and it will never please everyone. So say what you think, please; freedom of speech is our touchstone. As long as it's specific and about only the book itself, say it. If you feel it's too negative, maybe find some scrap of value to praise in there, so the author knows what to keep in their writing as well as what to fix. But don't let inappropriately hurt feelings stifle honest discussion.
Mod
The thing is, this is not a blog or a review site. It's *my* forum and *my* group, so the only people who read these comments are already members (and there aren't that many of you!) or are Googling themselves (and that's always perilous -- swim at your own risk).
You can't have genuine book discussion if no one is willing to ever say anything negative, and this is the only forum where I feel like I can relax and talk books with friends without fearing I'm wounding someone's feelings or sabotaging their career.
I mean, I'm generally not going to blast a colleague in any case -- I don't recommend that as a smart move for authors -- but I'll be honest and just say that I needed to be in a more patient and flexible frame of mind to enjoy this one. I may go back at some point and give it yet another try, but the fact is the vast bulk of m/m fiction doesn't do a lot for me. And that probably says more about me than these books because it's clear from the comments here that most of you are looking for -- and finding -- something I'm not.
But NS, your opinions often line up with mine, so I would feel deprived and that the conversation was lacking in balance, if you suddenly started censoring your insights.
That said, I know I sometimes sound harsher than I intend when I criticize books, and my mood and stress levels definitely affect my ability to suspend disbelief.
Yeah, relax, say what you think, just keep a little kindness in the back of your mind and don't worry about it too much. In the give and take of discussion, someone will put in their two cents if you come off negative, and balance you out.
Josh wrote: "I may go back at some point and give it yet another try, but the fact is the vast bulk of m/m fiction doesn't do a lot for me. And that probably says more about me than these books because it's clear from the comments here that most of you are looking for -- and finding -- something I'm not. "I think YOU are the one who supposed to suggest books and WE are the one who votes. Or vice versa, whatever. Like you said, this is YOUR group, it won't be fun if you end up not enjoying the book we've picked.
As for this book, or similar ones where the MCs are music stars, I really can't relate with the characters, no matter how well written it is, probably because I don't like rock or pop music that much. *ducks*
Mod
Nicole was talking about critique not reviews of published work. There's a big difference. In a critique you have the opportunity to help the writer in crafting a better book. The writer is asking you for help. And depending on how helpful you are, the writer will continue asking you for help or not.
Once the book is done, game over. Readers love it or hate it or read and instantly forget it, but all that's left for the writer at that point is to read the reviews (or not) and hope for the best. Reviews are one of the pleasures -- and/or pains -- of the writing gig.
Book discussion is one of the pleasures of being a reader.
Cleon wrote: "I really can't relate with the characters,..."I think we could spend days and days discussing the pros and cons of this particular book, which is one of the reasons I originally thought it would be a good pick. As I said in my initial post above, I enjoyed it as entertainment, a 'guilty pleasure' if you will. But I have always recognized the problems inherent with it, and I feel that they can all be put down to the fact that this was a first novel.
I suppose because I read further into the series, and saw improvement in the author's writing, I feel more lenient towards this first book. There was definitely a learning curve.
Susan wrote: "Cleon wrote: "I really can't relate with the characters,..."I think we could spend days and days discussing the pros and cons of this particular book, which is one of the reasons I originally t..."
That I can't relate with the characters is not the author's fault though. It's like asking me to read a straight romance. I just can't.
Mod
The driving impetus behind the Book of the Month club was I wanted to start reading more and I thought it would be fun to discuss what I was reading with some of my online friends.
I don't want to turn this into a giant discussion forum -- there are far better GR forums for that than this idiosyncratic little group will ever be -- and I don't want a lot of rules or regs. I would frankly prefer that other authors NOT show up when their books are under discussion as it is, naturally, inhibiting to everyone involved.
I think in this case it's probably better to put the emphasis back on me. Meaning, this is author-centric and probably EC-centric. I want to read more and it would be great to discuss what I'm reading with those of you who feel like joining in, but the idea was never to put a lot of pressure on anyone or turn this into a big formal discussion group. There are enough of those on Goodreads already.
It's true that any book that gets discussed here (or even mentioned) will result in visibility for the book but our discussions here are not going to make or break anyone.
I think in my wish to be inclusive I've maybe strayed too far from the original point of the group and thereby complicated everything.
Mod
This is the truth. And it's kind of reassuring too (from the author perspective)!
Josh wrote: "I want to read more and it would be great to discuss what I'm reading with those of you who feel like joining in..."Josh, if that is the case, and fine if it is, then why do we have a poll each month? You could just tell us what book you want to read, and we could discuss it with you if we want.
Mod
You're right. That was the original plan. I was going to try and load all the books I'd purchased onto GR and we were going to pick from those. But then I stared thinking there were other books out there I might be missing...and I didn't have time to load all my books on...
So, yes, maybe after the July read it'll be time to recalculate how we're doing this.
And nobody has to feel pressured to join in and discuss a book that doesn't interest them -- including me -- which could easily happen.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Hot Head (other topics)The Curtis Reincarnation (other topics)
When Irish Eyes Are Sparkling (other topics)
Reverb (other topics)
Conquest (other topics)
More...
Yes! I guess it's puzzling because I like to think I'm a rational being and I do have access to food that is ..."
MSG is not harmful if consumed within reason. 1/2 a tsp a day is the maximum dose, if I am not mistaken. In here, 1/2 tsp is probably only enough for one bowl of noodle soup. Also MSG is hidden in many ways, like in soy sauce, oyster sauce, chili sauce, bullions, ready made stock, or every processed food imaginable.
My friends who went to USA to study did complain that USA' Chinese food tastes terrible. lol. My friend who goes to Australia can't adjust with the food there, she says it's so bland.