History is Not Boring discussion
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Carrie
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Jul 01, 2014 01:32PM
Charlie, what books have you written, what are you working on now? I'm also fascinated by WW1 and have decided to try and read as many books of that era over the next 4 years during the centennial of the Great War. I'm really lucky that I live in Kansas City. We have the National World War 1 Museum here and they are planning lots of events and special activities to commemorate.
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Hi! My name is Kirsten and I am from Kennewick in Eastern Washington State. I love reading both histories and historical fiction. I like reading all sorts, but I am attracted biographies or bio-centric. I like reading 19th and early 20th century histories. I also like reading about illness/disease in history, espionage, and science in history. I am currently not reading any histories, but as for historical fiction, I am reading: We'll Go to Coney Island
Hello, I'm Erin, from Central Missouri. I've loved history all my life, got that from my Dad. He was a huge American Civil War buff, so that's where I started but I do enjoy WWII and "modern" popular history, as well. Biography is my favorite way to read about a time period. I have a BA in history and am considering returning to school for my Masters.
Hello Erin. As a fellow Missourian and history enthusiast if you need a subject title or author on WW II and somewhat on the Civil War just ask. I have now over 6500 titles on WW II and a modest 700 to 1000 list on the Civil War and Old West.
Anthony wrote: "Hello Erin. As a fellow Missourian and history enthusiast if you need a subject title or author on WW II and somewhat on the Civil War just ask. I have now over 6500 titles on WW II and a modest 70..."Thanks Anthony, always happy to meet a fellow enthusiast and fellow Missourian!
Hello everyone. My name is Hunter and while I enjoy history, I feel as though I am unable to truly understand and analyze it beyond what is required in so many schools now, with rote-memorization. However, I still enjoy reading and learning on my own (even though I hate school, I still enjoy learning). As for my historical interests, I enjoy most every time period except for the Industrial Revolutions. I also like to learn about the cultures and beliefs (such as ancient pantheons) of civilizations throughout history.
Hunter, you are wise to recognize that you shouldn't let the school curriculum color your decision to like or dislike history. I barely passed in my history classes when I was in school, and found out in college that it could be fascinating. Some of the problem is the material being taught, and some of it is how the material is being taught. I think that there are two main differences: 1) when you are in school, you are too young to have the life experience yet with which to relate to the history, and 2) if the history being taught is not given to students in a context to which they can relate, it will turn them off. What I find fascinating about history, now that I've become a fan, is that most of it is about ordinary people like you and me, not just about big important people. When modern-day students see that the people and events being studied are not really very different from themselves, they will want to know more about these historical people. We're seeking the humanity of the history, not just the dry figures and statistics.
Keep reading! You will find a world of historical treasures out there! Never stop learning!
Well, I feel as though I've always enjoyed history, I was saying I don't think I'm capable of truly being able to observe and analyze the past, instead just reading and seeing what happened, nothing beyond that.Does that make any sense?
I think it does make sense. I think you'll find that observation and analysis, if you are so inclined, will come with continued serious reading. I am continually making little connections from having read this here and that there, then I think, "Oh! That's how (or why, or whatever) that was done!" Then it seems obvious, like I should have seen it before.I am always digging deeper into military engineering during the Civil War. Some years ago, I read about the need for cartographers of the day to file their ruling pens, the drawing instrument with which they drew lines. The ruling pen has two parallel blades linked by a small screw, which is tightened to bring the two blades closer for a thinner line. Ink is dropped in between the blades, which act also as a reservoir. Although these blades are made of metal, with extended use, the edges of the blades wear down, developing a flat side and distorting the otherwise elliptical shape. (That's a lot of drafting!) The elliptical shape must be restored in order for the pen to work properly. So I understood this idea in concept. Then a few years later, I found a tiny, very fine-grained sharpening stone in my father's barn, still in its little box. It probably dates to the 1920s or so. On the box was stated that this stone was for sharpening various things, including surgical instruments, hypodermic needles, and drafting instruments. That was like a puzzle piece falling into place. Although the stone post-dates the Civil War by decades, drafting instruments did not change in design or materials for 150 years or more, and the ruling pen was in common use until the 1950s. So that little stone is a little treasure for me.
There are some things I'm sure I couldn't make connections with, such as if I was studying a remote African tribe that disappeared centuries ago. But for me, I don't mind if I can't make connections, I'm learning and that's what's important to me. Perhaps participating in discussions here will help me get a better understanding.
Sally wrote: "I think that there are two main differences: 1) when you are in school, you are too young to have the life experience yet with which to relate to the history, and 2) if the history being taught is not given to students in a context to which they can relate, it will turn them off. "I don't really think that students have to be able to relate to things in history. It's a subject like any other and some people will like it and some people won't. Some people like Math and Physics, others Biology and Chemistry. Of course they should be old enough but they don't really need that much life experience. I remember we started from (before) the stone age and continued probably to the end of the Cold War in about four years when we were between 10 and 15. I don't understand how one even could relate to people leaving Africa or to Neanderthals.
Hunter (Totally NOT a communist ☭), King of Games wrote: "Well, I feel as though I've always enjoyed history, I was saying I don't think I'm capable of truly being able to observe and analyze the past, instead just reading and seeing what happened, nothin..."I don't quite understand what you mean about analysing. I haven't probably consciously analysed anything, but of course sometimes you can understand the reasons and consequences of some action or decision.
I wonder if those alternate-ending stories, or some games like chess or online Sym City, could be good tools to learn to analyze things. "If I go this way, this could happen, with that consequence. Or if I go that way, that would happen, with some other consequence." It seems like it could be a good exercise. Anything that stretches your brain is good!
Well in a way that is natural for me (or us) when it comes to our 20th century history. The whole country had to walk a very fine line and managed to do that, so understanding the decisions of the leaders in that time is a good excercise already. There are enough examples of countries that failed to do that. (For example many people criticise Finland for siding with Germany during WWII and/or not keeping out of the war entirely. But I have yet to hear a scenario where that would have been possible and the end result would have been better.)
Tytti wrote: "Hunter (Totally NOT a communist ☭), King of Games wrote: "Well, I feel as though I've always enjoyed history, I was saying I don't think I'm capable of truly being able to observe and analyze the p..."By that, I meant I have trouble observing an event, understanding why it happened and how it's affected the world as a whole.
Hunter (Totally NOT a communist ☭), King of Games wrote: "By that, I meant I have trouble observing an event, understanding why it happened and how it's affected the world as a whole."
Well we were more or less taught that in school, up to a point. And we were also expected to answer to questions like that in exams with long essay answers where we explains things like that.
(Here is an example: “Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels predicted that a socialist revolution would first happen in countries like Great Britain. What made Marx and Engels claim that and why did a socialist revolution happen in Russia?” And you are expected to answer 8 similar questions during the 6 hours reserved for the exam, so that might tell you something about the lenght of the answers needed to get full points.)
My history teacher did something like that last semester- he gave us a list of concepts from the unit and we had to pick like, 4 and explain what they were and how they were significant.
I think we had that kind of questions in pretty much all subjects and almost from the start. Though we usually had to answer to all of them. (And I edited my last post: your answer should be long enough to take at least 20-30 minutes to write.)
Public school does largely take the fun out of learning. History class was about names, dates and battles and memorizing those to fill in the blanks on a test. I loved history yet history class was not so much fun. I had an inspiring social studies teacher in the 8th grade who made learning fun. Other than that, until college, history class was boring. I've heard Common Core is even worse and relies on memorizing instead of actually learning. I hope whatever they replace it with can inspire kids to actually learn and enjoy learning. My niece in kindergarten is thrilled to be in real school and learning a lot. I hope she stays that way even if I can't understand what the heck she's talking about half the time.
QNPoohBear wrote: "Public school does largely take the fun out of learning. History class was about names, dates and battles and memorizing those to fill in the blanks on a test. I loved history yet history class was..."I never thought that school should have been fun, no one I knew liked it. Though maybe some liked it less than others. Because I liked history, it didn't matter who the teacher was. Usually I had already read about the subject before we even started studying it. Memorising dates was never considered that important, explaining why and how it happened and what happened next and why was.
Tytti wrote: "QNPoohBear wrote: "Public school does largely take the fun out of learning. History class was about names, dates and battles and memorizing those to fill in the blanks on a test. I loved history ye..."Complete opposite here. We just have to know what happened and when it happened and once we take our test at the end of the course, we just forget everything because it's no longer important to us. Very sad if you ask me. It's part of the reason I hate school, along with the fact it emphasizes academic courses not relevant to everyone over things everyone will have to know to be a proper adult.
What are those "academic courses"?And sure, when it comes to the younger pupils, I don't think they can be expected to understand much, so it's much more important to teach what happened and in what order (when it comes to Ancient Egypt and Rome for example) but understanding reasons is more important when it come to the more recent history and when the students are already in their teens because that affects today's world, too. And when it comes to the secondary education (starting from "10th" grade at the age of 16) you won't pass the course knowing just the details. But there are also those "academic" courses that you tend to forget if you are not interested and work in that field yourself. I have needed their information only in pub quizzes.
Academic courses such as science, math and social studies. Once the final test is over, the information is no longer required and thus is forgotten. A real shame, that time could've been used to prep us for the real world, but was wasted on material some of us might use in the future.
I believe that the whole point of all of these various studies, at the junior high and high school levels, is to expose the student to a wide variety of subjects, in which the student will likely discover a strong interest in one or two. I doubt that school administrators and/or teachers expect every student to become passionate about and ace every subject.Granted, in many school systems, academic standards have evolved (or devolved) into courses of study that teach to the test, or whatever is the current fad or fashion in education, instead of - as you say, Hunter - preparation for the real world. I have seen, as have many others, a serious degradation in the quality of education in this country. It behooves the student to take the initiative and develop a line of serious study in the subjects he or she is truly interested in, in addition to meeting his or her obligations to the classroom assignments.
But I think my theory above was initially behind the development of academic standards of public education. The best teachers teach the student not dry facts and figures, but HOW TO LEARN. Once you know how to learn, you can teach yourself just about anything.
For us they are just normal classes... :D I had chemistry and physics from 7th grade, I think they start earlier these days. Biology and geography started in 3rd grade, history in 5th.Though students can choose between "longer" and "shorter" math and physics in the secondary school and also more courses on other subjects.
My 11th grade U.S. History class was a joke. The teacher, a very nice man, had never taught at the college prep level before, let alone the advanced level. He had taught business at the Junior High. The tests were Q & A, fill in the blank and bonus questions like "Who is your favorite teacher?" We had a substitute for some of that time too. Senior year was supposed to be U.S> History II 1865-present day. Present day in the textbook was when Ronald Reagan was president, which was already more than a decade since his first term. We spent most of that year studying the Constitution and preparing to pass the AP exam. We never did make it to present day and I don't think we even got as far as the 1960s . Most of what I know about history I learned myself through lots of reading. I've always been a history nerd and started researching almost as soon as I could read. Tytti Hence the reason Finns are far ahead of Americans in the education department.
If I remember correctly we started history in 5th grade (age 11) from the Stone age and then all that Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome stuff. In 6th grade we covered for example the US Civil War (I remember that because I had just read Gone with the Wind the same year but it was only a chapter/lesson in our book). For the 7th grade we change schools and then we have history teachers who have studied history AND had the separate teaching education at a university (the same in other subjects, too), before that one teacher teaches almost all subjects (the same teacher for 2-6 years), except maybe in languages, P.E., crafts, music, art, home economics in Grade(s) 7 (to 9) and such. (I think those are called non-academic, or skill subjects as we say, except for the languages, of course, as opposed to "study subjects" where we have text books.)I wonder did we continue (almost) to the present day in world history in 7th grade and then cover the Finnish history (almost 1000 years plus some prehistory) in 8th... Something like that probably. 9th grade was boring, as it was about the government and civics and stuff. And that's it. The (non-mandatory) secondary school lasts about 2.5 years and we had 5 (or was it 7?) history courses, more or less the same subjects but more "deeply". And basically our lessons were very traditional, the teacher taught, we made notes (especially in the secondary school), and then we prepared for the exams by reading the text book and our own notes. Every now and then there might be something different but not in every lesson. As I said, I wouldn't call it fun. And the final exam (the matriculation examination) covers all courses in one subject (thousands of years of world history and the Finnish history), so basically I read all the textbooks from cover to cover, and my notes, and some more if I could think of something.
I'm Matt, and this group is definitely for me. A well-written history book will always be better than the best novel, bleh!
Hi Y'all,
I'm an old lawyer named Robert Walker. My main reading interests are American History, and historical fiction if the "historical" is American. Now retired, I love duplicate bridge and fishing in the beautiful Tennessee River.
I'm an old lawyer named Robert Walker. My main reading interests are American History, and historical fiction if the "historical" is American. Now retired, I love duplicate bridge and fishing in the beautiful Tennessee River.
MJ Colewood here, author of The Last Treasure of Ancient England I am originally from England but have been living in Spain now for over 20 years. Having been through Madrid and old Seville I am presently living in Catalunya in the charming province of Girona, Spain's petit toscana where I shall be for the foreseeable future. I divide my time between writing fiction and non-fiction as well as teaching history. I look forward to getting involved in the discussions here and discovering some great books along the way.
Hello there, M J. I have to ask this about Europe because I've never been there: are there places in different countries that have large numbers of people from other countries with other languages (think like Chinatowns in the US), or do most Europeans know many different languages? If the latter, do many learn on their own, are they required to or can they choose to learn in education?
I ask that because here in the US, unless you live near the Mexican border or in a town that has a significant number of people of descent from other nations, you're unlikely to use any language besides English, which is why you see few Americans that know other languages unless they're from a different background. It just won't be worth the time and effort to many if you're unlikely to use it.
Hunter (Totally NOT a communist ☭), King of Games. I'm a human and I have feelings that can be hurt, believe it or not. wrote: " are there places in different countries that have large numbers of people from other countries with other languages..."Yes... And yes, and all of the above. And one doesn't even have to be from a different country to speak a different language than most people around them.
What do you mean by that?
What do I mean? That there have always been minorities in Europe, ethnic, linguistic, religious etc. There are also almost 50 different countries in Europe, all with different histories, societies and connections to other countries, so it's pretty difficult to say anything more specific.
Mmmm...I'm so dumb D:
Hello everyone. Great to find a Group with this title; history has certainly enriched my view of the present so I look forward to some good discussions.I am the author of 'Robin Hood Existed', so overlooked medieval tales in particular are of interest to me. Though I am also keen to learn more about other cultures and regions.
Michele wrote: "Hello everyone - I don't usually formally introduce myself to a group (more of a lurker, ha), but am so glad this group is here. Huge history fan here (majored in Early European History in college)..."Glad to see another fan here always! I too always have at least one history book going at a time. Right now it is "Big History". "Bottlemania" marginal--lots in it about the history of our waterways and natural springs. I would LOVE to know how you like "the royal cousins"---it is on my TBR list.
I'm Elizabeth, and I love historical fiction! I'll read pretty much any kind, and I want to be an author and most of my books will be historical fiction too! Aside from that, I also love swimming, doll collecting, learning about history/culture in general, and anime/manga.
Hey Elizabeth! Did you look through my groups and joined this one? :DI didn't take you as a doll collector *Shrugs* What history/culture do you like to learn about?
No actually I found this from an author's page, lol. Just anything, but I really like Japanese history/culture, Icelandic history/culture, and Lithuanian history/culture. I want to visit those countries someday, so why not learn about where they came from?
I do collect dolls, I collect Ever After High dolls! The earlier editions of certain ones are worth about $100 now, but there's no way I'm selling them!
Hm. I was wondering if you did it from my page :DMy sister has dolls like that
Hello everyone. My favorite historical time is from 1750 to 1830, which encompasses the American war of Independence and the French Revolution. I enjoy both fiction and non-fiction.
I just finished "Damn the Torpedoes: Naval Incidents of the Civil War" by A. A. Hoehling (1998). Each chapter is either about a lesser known naval episode or sheds some new light on more famous naval activities. A most readable book, informative in a somewhat informal style. A friend of mine, to whom I gave an extra copy I had acquired, got all excited when he saw some of the photographs of the featured vessels - he likes to draw pictures of Civil War naval vessels, and some of these photos he had never seen anywhere else. (His artistic eye is excellent.)
Hi, everyone. I'm an old lady from Kentucky who enjoys -- but seldom reads or finds -- a good history or historical fiction. Looking forward to hearing about everyone's reading experiences.
History is Not Boring
Books mentioned in this topic
We'll Go to Coney Island (other topics)Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era (other topics)
The Killer Angels (other topics)
Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln (other topics)
South Carolina: A History (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Rod Martin Jr. (other topics)Jared Diamond (other topics)
James Burke (other topics)
Kevin Robert Ryan (other topics)
William E. Colby (other topics)
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