What Would You Most Like To See In The Fantasy Genre

[[deleted user]]

Now this is a rather broad question and I've worded it in such a manner that all types of answers are fully applicable. Do you wish to see a certain type character in fantasy novels? A greater amount of violence? A return to simpler, less nihilistic works? Do you wish authors would quit trying to be Really bad poets or that there were pronunciation guides for ye random funky name? There's no wrong answers ;)

[[deleted user]]

As for me, I would really love to see a fantasy novel that had highly developed political and religious structures. In fact, I'd love to see a novel where a great deal of the plot revolved around the machinations between these two powers. Considering how much power and influence is and has been wielded throughout history by these two groups (which have more often than not been one) I've always been surprised that there haven't been more novels that really focused on the subjects. Given, there are fantasy novels out there that have built political/religious structures, but I can't recall one that really put the main focus of the novel on them.

Also, I think Prologues should go the way of dodo. I enjoy a little one or two page intro that sets the tone for a novel but I despise mass information dumps. That's just poor writing.

[[deleted user]]

I'd like to see a Polynesian character as the hero/protagonist in an epic fantasy(urban, even) storyline.

[[deleted user]]

*nods* I can dig that. I always kind of wished there would be a Spanish main character in an epic fantasy. It's not as if I couldn't put myself in the place of most main characters growing up but it seemed as if all my favs were blonde or redheaded with blue or green eyes. I woulda killed for a swarthy, dark eyed hispanic with gravity defying jet black hair :) Though at least I did have Inigo Montoya to look up to growing up ;)

[[deleted user]]

I know the feeling man. And yeah, at least you had Inigo. I got stuck with Queequeg.

[[deleted user]]

Lol...oh lord...I was racking my brain trying to think of a Polynesian character and I thought of Queequeg and just shook my head and thought "nah...that's probably the only one he ever hears!"

[[deleted user]]

You know what else I'd like to see? More individual/standalone books and less series.

Everything is a series nowadays, or connected to a series, or set in the same world as another series. Etc, etc.

I get that a series is probably a better financial investment for publishers especially if it takes off and is ongoing, but I'd really like to see more Standalone fantasy novels.

Just give me a single book that tells a damn good tale in one go without having me wait for the next book for a continuation/conclusion.

[Nicole]

Grant and Nicki...I have read a epic fantasy novel that has some of the things that I think you would like. Some strong...not over sexualized female characters and also deals with political and very strong religious matters...I'm not sure if you(Grant) meant real political matters that are important to you or have political matters of their own within the story. Anyway, I LOVED . You should check it out. I don't think you will be dissappointed.

[Tracey]

Grant wrote: "Also, I think Prologues should go the way of dodo."

*quietly goes off and shoots prologue, buries in back yard*

[Laurel]

Tracey, I think there are exceptions to the rule with prologues. I think the opening of Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson was genius!

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Tracey wrote: "Grant wrote: "Also, I think Prologues should go the way of dodo."

*quietly goes off and shoots prologue, buries in back yard*"

/cheer

[Tracey]

What I enjoy most in fantasy, and what I'm trying to write, is sort of the antithesis of the Epic Heroic Blood and Thunder sort of story. I like elves and werewolves as much as the next person, but my favorite brand of fantasy is what Guy Gavriel Kay and Robin McKinley do so well, and Barbara Hambly, Rosemary Edghill, Caroline Stevermer, and, often, Robin Hobb and Charles de Lint: fairly ordinary people making their way through situations where either things change on them, or they unexpectedly change, or the fantastic drops on their heads. In other words: No Mary Sues, and no Big Bad Evil cardboard villains. And, usually, once the mythical beings start showing up, a book has to work harder to make me love it.

Also, as Ala says, more nice substantial standalone books. (Which is also what I'm trying to write: putting my money where my mouth is.) There have been a few times of late when I've picked up a book innocently thinking it was a standalone, only to find characters clinging to cliff edges by their fingernails at the end (looking straight at you, Robin McKinley, with your Pegasus: love you to death, but *thwap* - warn a girl, can't you?) It's a cliche in fantasy - wait. It used to be a cliche in fantasy that everything was in trilogies; now - maybe thanks to Robert Jordan? - it's a cliche that everything runs in endless series. That way lies carbon copy-ness.

One more: more originality, in urban fantasy especially. To me it looks like a tiny handful of writers created highly original worlds, and masses of people have glommed on to those templates, made minute changes, and started pumping out sludge which, as long as it has sex, vampires, sex, weres, sex, (to quote Nicki) oversexed 20-somethings, some perversion of mythology (don't get me started on fantasies involving "angels"), sex, and/or a large dollop of sadism, will sell like the proverbial hotcakes. And - Harry Potter and (God help me) Twilight apparently got kids reading, but it also created a rut for them: writers and publishers are keeping them hip-deep in more and more and more of the same. Think for yourselves, people! Write your own worlds! Create your own tropes!

Whoa, where'd that soap box come from? *hops down*

[Amanda]

Nicki wrote: "I would like to see more urban fantasy (not paranormal romance) with female protagonists who aren't oversexed 20-somethings. I want female Dresdens -- no, scratch that, I want Murphy from the Dresd..."

Dead Witch Walking Try this series, she's strong, there's an original basis for her world and lots of action versus sex. Well worth it and still lively 9 books in!!!

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Grant wrote: "As for me, I would really love to see a fantasy novel that had highly developed political and religious structures. In fact, I'd love to see a novel where a great deal of the plot revolved around ..."

Kushiel is all about politics...and sex, lol

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

I'd like to see more kick-ass female characters, too. I love Mercy Thompson for that.

*nods at Ala* I'd also love to see more kick-ass black female characters, urban or epic...and NOT Damali - she grates on my nerves.

I'd also like to see less gritty and more of the older kind of fantasy novel (like Norton)...and if I can't get that, can I get a warning or something?? Hate tossing away money.

[Tracey]

Denae wrote: "Tracey wrote: "Grant wrote: "Also, I think Prologues should go the way of dodo."

*quietly goes off and shoots prologue, buries in back yard*"

/cheer"

?

[[deleted user]]

Lol @ MrsJoseph. It's the ...and sex part that kinda killed me there. Not exactly the kind of politics and religion I was referring to but good example of an author that made the attempt ;)

Tracey, your prologue is fine! lol! I'm referring to those prologues that dump a ridiculous amount of information in a scant few pages in order to pathetically attempt to set up the book. Anytime I'm reading a novel with that type of prologue I imagine the comic book guy from The Simpsons in his dungeonmaster D&D gear, vomiting a long, stupid explanation of the background and setting for the ensuing game. Just ugh.

[[deleted user]]

MrsJ, check out The Nantucket series by S.M. Sterling. There are multiple protagonists but the main one is a kick-ass black female lesbian sea captain. She is seriously awesome throughout the books :)

[Tracey]

Ala wrote: "I'd like to see a Polynesian character as the hero/protagonist in an epic fantasy(urban, even) storyline."
Huh! I read your comment, and then there was a comment from a friend on this book. Probably not what you're looking for, but "She’s struggling to find her place as the only Polynesian girl in school" - bit of a coincidence.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Tracey wrote: "Denae wrote: "Tracey wrote: "Grant wrote: "Also, I think Prologues should go the way of dodo."

*quietly goes off and shoots prologue, buries in back yard*"

/cheer"


?"


I missed something somewhere and was talking about prologues in general. No offense intended whatsoever, particularly as I've not yet read your writing. :)

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Grant wrote: "MrsJ, check out The Nantucket series by S.M. Sterling. There are multiple protagonists but the main one is a kick-ass black female lesbian sea captain. She is seriously awesome throughout the boo..."

I love awesome women, esp kick ass awesome women...but doesn't Stirling write horror? You know I'm a wussy...

[[deleted user]]

Tracey wrote: "Huh! I read your comment, and then there was a comment from a friend on this..."

So while reading the blurb for that book, I'm just non-stop cringing until I get to this line, "a steamy romance with a hot, local park ranger".

And that's when I stopped reading altogether.

The idea of using some of the Polynesian Gods interested me, but it'll probably just end up being 'Pele' or something...

[Tracey]

Figures. I should have read the whole thing a bit better. Still an odd coincidence, though.

[Nicole]

Nikki, I understand your hesitation to read a self published book. I know artistic ability does not necessarily mean writing ability, but you should check out this website. In fact, anyone reading this should as well. http://knightsofthedawnking.com

[Tracey]

I had a similar outlook about self-publisheds - but I've found a couple of books on Smashwords that (kind of) changed my mind, including (especially) one of my recommendations up there, Dead in Time. It was well-written, well edited, and one of my new favorites. It's a very mixed bag, but there are goodies out there.

[[deleted user]]

MrsJoseph, Stirling is more of a fantasy/scifi guy than horror, though he has dabbled in that arena. That particular series is an alternate history where the island of Nantucket is thrown 3000 years in the past. Fairly interesting though not nearly as good as his Emberverse series

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Grant wrote: "MrsJoseph, Stirling is more of a fantasy/scifi guy than horror, though he has dabbled in that arena. That particular series is an alternate history where the island of Nantucket is thrown 3000 yea..."

Haven't read any of it...I'll have to check him out.

[Danielle The Book Huntress]

I like the magic noir vibe. I say keep those kinds of fantasy novels coming. I also like conflicted characters, not the white knights, but the gray ones. :)

And I agree with those who mentioned the desire for more ethnic diversity.

[Danielle The Book Huntress]

Nicki wrote: "I would like to see more urban fantasy (not paranormal romance) with female protagonists who aren't oversexed 20-somethings. I want female Dresdens -- no, scratch that, I want Murphy from the Dresd..."

I could not agree with you more, Nicki!

[TinaNoir]

Hmnm.... I am not sure if i will describe this the way I want to. But I really loved reading Wurts/Feist' Empire series (Daughter, Servant,Mistress) and Fallon's Wolfblade series. The commonality is that they took a main character who needed to learn to survive by her wits and large amounts of luck in a system that was pretty much rigged against her.

The books read like, well, a chess match really where strategy and out thinking and out maneuvering your opponent was a life and death thing. Added to that, both the main protagonists were under-dogs and weren't expected to survive against a much stronger opponent.

I love those sort of murder-mayhem-intrigue books set in a very civilized, polite society (on the surface) but underneath they are all go for the throat, kill or be killed.

[Tracey]

Tina wrote: "I love those sort of murder-mayhem-intrigue books set in a very civilized, polite society (on the surface) but underneath they are all go for the throat, kill or be killed."

That makes me think of Ellen Kushner's Swordspoint - A world that's veddy veddy civilized, and very very violent.

[Traci]

This is a really tough question for me. In the past I would've answered I wanted a return to simple fun adventure stories. But since then I have been reading darker fantasy like Martin and Abercrombie and I have found a taste for those books too. Robin Hobb and Jennifer Fallon are two other styles Iam enjoying. Sometimes Iam in the mood for urban or romance fantasy. That's my favorite thing about this genre. There's something for everyone and for every mood. Although I will agree with the comments above that more ethnic variety would be welcome. And I will add a mixing of ethnics would be nice. Too many times a book has all white, or all black, or you get the idea, characters. And I would do away with stereo types. Some urban fantasy I think is offensive even though I know the intent is not to be.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Nicki wrote: "Thanks for the recommendation, Amanda! I think I have that series on my shelves actually -- I'll bump it up the list.

As for the self-publication thing, it's an issue of personal philosophy, not w..."

I understand what you mean by self-pubbing...but there is a difference between the guy who dumps his crap on Smashwords and someone who takes the time to hone their craft. There are a couple of authors who are self-pubbed and pay for editing, good cover art, etc. They decided to self-pub in order to have more control over their rights (no DRM, no geo-restrictions, set their own prices, etc). As an ebook reader I appreciate the ones who put for the extra effort to create quality work while still thinking of what the audience wants.

But you are right...it gets difficult to cull the wheat from the chaff. MR has a lot of authors to chose from (that were giving free samples) so I've been rather lucky in my choices...but I haven't read all of the stuff I've bought yet, either.

[Tracey]

Samples = that was one reason I actually kind of liked Smashwords. There was a lot of crap to wade through - but because you're given the option to read a decent-sized chunk of a book before committing - for one I looked at, 30% - you don't get stuck with random apostrophes and horrendous spelling and such-like. If the synopsis sounds interesting you can make sure there's actually a plot to the thing. I ended up buying two there - one professional quality (Dead in Time) (I wouldn't have missed it for the world), the other pretty darn good although it could have used a professional editor. I won't be going back every week - but now and then I think I'll take a wander through.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

During Read an Ebook week I got a very well edited book from Smashwords for free. It was a Georgian historical romance. It was well written, well edited and had a decent plot. It wasn’t my cup of tea (not a fan of the primary characters) but the author had won some prize for the book – and it was something like $10k.

[Bill]

Grant wrote: "As for me, I would really love to see a fantasy novel that had highly developed political and religious structures. In fact, I'd love to see a novel where a great deal of the plot revolved around ..."

David Weber's series Safehold might be of interest to you. It is often categorized as SF, but has strong fantasy elements, esp in the milieu. The magic is technically explained, but is magic to most characters.

There is a series I read sometime ago probably in the '80s or early '90s of 5 or 6 books, which was all about politico-religious conflict in an epic fantasy world. I cannot remember it's name but am sure the series name started with a 'D'. I remember it being very engrossing and would love to read it again. Any suggestions?

Fiona Patton's Banion series has strong religious aspects based on Catholicism. I don't remember political aspects, but anytime you have organized religion you have politics.

I'd also consider Kate Elliott's long Crown of Stars series and both of Janny Wurts epic series: Empire with Raymond Feist and Wars of Light and Shadow.

The Dune universe certainly fulfills your criteria and some consider it fantasy. I do not.

I suspect you've read many of these.

Laurel wrote: "Tracey, I think there are exceptions to the rule with prologues. I think the opening of Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson was genius!"

I agree. Prologues can offer useful information. I like them to be about the story and not about trials and tribulations of the author. What I don't like are long introductions by a 3rd party, telling us how great the book is or what it means, why it's important. I may read such after, but never before the book. Talking fiction here.

[TinaNoir]

Tracey wrote: "That makes me think of Ellen Kushner's Swordspoint - A world that's veddy veddy civilized, and very very violent. "

Ooh, sounds interesting. Thanks I'll look it up.

[Jea0126]

I'd like to find another author like Jennifer Roberson who is equally crafted at writing both men and women main characters. I would also like to find more characters similar to her Tiger and Del series (starting with Sword-Dancer) where the main characters are a couple who are equally strong characters on their own but that much stronger together.

Also I'd like to find a series like the Empire Trilogy from Feist and Wurts that are strong in intrigue. Mara was a great character because of her way of manipulating the system in place around her. Robin Hobb is also spectacular.

[TinaNoir]

Jea0126 wrote: "Also I'd like to find a series like the Empire Trilogy from Feist and Wurts that are strong in intrigue. Mara was a great character because of her way of manipulating the system in place around her. Robin Hobb is also spectacular"

have you read Jennifer Fallon's Wolfblade series (

Wolfblade,Warrior, Warlord)

I think Marla in that series reminds me a LOT of Mara from the Wurts series. Young, inexperienced, assassins all around, trying to stay alive, needing to manipulate the system...etc. etc. Great trilogy.

[Bets]

Okay, wait. I really don't understand the problem with self publishing. You can argue drek, but frankly I think big publishing houses are responsible for a huge amount of drek--enough that I can't even look at a fantasy book shelf in a store anymore--while good writers, quality writers get passed over. Yes, they don't have glitz publishing campaigns or someone called "editor," but, in fact, other than selling you with big pub. campaigns if they'd decided to back you, publishers and editors do very little these days. Your book is supposed to be publish ready by the time it goes out to an editor or agent or they won't even glance at it.

Meaning good, responsible authors do all the high quality editing themselves. They learn their own style, their own copy-editing (or paying for it), and everything else.

With ebooks on the way up, I'm hoping we can finally break NYC death grip and get a little indie.

Yeah. I'm on the verge of publishing through createspace. Yeah, I tried going other routes first. I am, however, now confident in my choice. My work is polished clean. I am currently choosing my cute photo, and I have an artist drawing up covers for me.

Rant aside. You hurt my feelings. Sniff.

No, really. I want more standalones too. I finally sold out on my last venture and turned it into a series, but I'm a standalone sort of girl.

Better racial distribution--totally. Try Brown Girl in the Ring.

Character. That's my obsession. Ever more character.

That, and I'll go against the flow and say honest, in depth description, of everything. If someone gets killed, I'd better not only smell the blood but the gastric juice and the shit they dropped in their pants.

Sex had better be sticky, sweaty, and most likely awkward.

I know it is fantasy, but I want reality to it. As Zannachan pointed out, I just can't have someone cry without them getting all snotty.

Can you tell in my other life I'm a memoir person?

[[deleted user]]

I think I would be viscerally frightened of your memoir ;) lol

[Maggie]

cicada needs some erikson :)

[[deleted user]]

Erikson is your answer for everything.

Bored? Get some Erikson.
Dying of thirst? Get some Erikson.

Geeze. :P

[whimsicalmeerkat]

I can tell you what I would like to see less of--absolute nitwits writing offensive reviews. /grabs pitchfork and begins march on NY Times building

[Danielle The Book Huntress]

I love stories with people showing resourcefulness and depending on their wits and their determination to succeed, Tina. I am all about the underdog!

[Maggie]

naw, actually. I read a lot of stuff. But it is my answer for people who want characterization, bloody and gory battle scenes, sticky sex scenes and reality grit all in one book.

so Ala...you need some erikson! :P

[[deleted user]]

You're right, I do.

i'm sorry for ever doubting you

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

rotflamo!!

[mark]

i would like to see an old woman as a protagonist.

or an interesting demon - but not a 'sexy' PNR demon.

or more epic fantasies set in steamy, wet jungles rather than european-style forests or meadowlands.

a hero who is also a slut (male or female).

a YA fantasy series in which the hero grows progressively more villainous.

a fantasy novel featuring a nerdy, well-read type who is also bi-racial, bisexual, and yet is confused by binary systems. extra bonus points if this protagonist also has a birthmark on his face that looks like a black eye!

[[deleted user]]

Lmao. Umm possibly the funniest thing I've read on goodreads. If I hadn't already used the restroom I mighta peed a smidge :)