Creative Reviews discussion
Authors requesting reviewers
>
Self or Traditionally Published??
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
Christopher
(last edited Apr 25, 2011 10:32PM)
(new)
Apr 25, 2011 10:31PM
Strangelandediting.com is a friend of mine, she does copy editing, formatting for ebooks, and proofreading. she's new so she'll give you a good rate.
reply
|
flag
Christopher, I'm the wrong person to ask about the benefits of traditional publishing :). I think a *good* publisher can expand your audience reach, take care of some of the marketing, and ensure you put out a quality product. I don't know how you make sure you're signing with a "good" publisher, though :).One thing I'd want to do is talk with other authors signed by a particular publisher, and find out how much work they do on marketing, etc.
Christopher, thanks for the editing lead. Sounds like she's involved in all the areas I need. I will definitely contact her.
Hi Richard! My editor is Crystal and you can find her online at CrystalClearProofing.com. I think she is really great and her prices are reasonable. I do have another list with some other contacts but it is at home and we are away right now visiting family. We are leaving tomorrow and I would be happy to give you the information I have then. I will say that I haven't used anyone on my list but Crystal but the list seems very reliable bc I got it at a publishing seminar that was taught by a woman who owns a small publishing company. You should definitely check crystal out online or on facebook she is really wonderful and vbery helpful bc I didn't know much about editing back when I met her and she really answered all my questions. You can email her from her website and tell her what u are looking for and go from there! If you do please tell her I said hello!
Cambria, That's great, thanks! This is a HUGE help to me. Making contact with editors is exactly what I need. I'll definitely reach out to Crystal and say hello from you. Thanks again.
Hey Richard!Here is the list of contacts I was telling you about. These are just some of the ones I thought would be most helpful-if you are looking for something more specific then just ask I might have it on my list.
My editor: Amy Eye. You know her as the moderator of this group. It goes without saying that she is awesome and very talented!
Get Amy here on GR.
www.the-efa.org/dir/search.php : Membership directory of the Editorial Freelancers Association
www.prweb.com : Press release website
www.book-editing.com : book editing service and info.
www.WillowRavenIllustration.com : Illustrator
www.bookconnector.com : List of reviewers BUT I would totally get some reviewers off Goodreads first. :)
www.booksense.com : Independent booksellers organization
www.publaw.com : Publishing law info.
Also, I'm sure you've heard of this site but i figured I would include it:
www.sfwa.org/for-authors/writer-beware
I would check whoever you want to work with out on this site before agreeing to anything because you just never know....
Anyway, hope this list helps. I haven't used any of these personally except for crystal and the writer beware site so I can only vouch for those two but I got the list off a woman who owns a small publishing company. She is a member on Goodreads also and you could look her up; her name is Diane Wolfe.
Shame on me for not reading every post before replying. If this has been covered, feel free to publicly flog me.Now then I've done both - but only because I got tired of my publisher to reopen their submissions so I pushed one out on my own. My experiences and many of those I've spoken with are that the grunt work of promoting, marketing, and even getting reviews largely falls to the author to do. Heck, that's a large reason why I'm here - I need reviews and I want to boost my own reviewing circle!
Mod
Thanks Amy - glad to find the group! Looks mighty promising.
I love my e-books, don't get me wrong, but I don't think there is anything that can replace the feeling of holding a brand new book in your hands. Completely agree! I publish both with a small press and as an indie, and just as everyone has mentioned, there are good and not-so-good things about each. Personally, I like the mix of both worlds.
yes, there are good points to each...its a matter of finding which one works best for you...
I do love the freedom of epublishing, I have to say, and if I do okay with it, I probably won't go traditional.
I agree, if you are pretty successful there is no need. Unless of course you get an awesome deal....lol.So, Christopher John what types of marketing are you choosing to do for your book? In your experience what has worked best for you in selling books?
Yeah if I was offered a deal it would be tough not to take it...for now I do a lot of message boarding, bloging, facebooking; smashwords has great connections and there are many sites that have groups for writers like Goodreads, Librarything, and Shelfari. Its very time consuming, but I enjoy it. I'm not selling through the roof or anything. I'm a newbie and I've been told it takes time, maybe years. How about you Cambria? Is your book going to be self-pubbed, or you still looking for a publisher?
Ahhh, the question of the day. Well, okay, months maybe. lol. I'm still consodering. I know...what am i waiting for right? I say it to myself all the time. I have a manuscript at a small publisher right now being considered, Otherworld Publications. Have you heard of it? Anyway, i was waiting to hear back from them. B/c really if they offer me a dea, I will most likely sign. If they say no then I will probably bag the whole rejection thing and self pub. It isn't as if i am new to the rejection pile either....I have been searching for an agent/publisher for a little over two years now. I have 8 manuscripts just sitting. Granted, not all of them are polished up and ready to go but they are all written. 2 YA series and 1 middle grade book (but its short like 15,000 words).My editor is the one who sent my MS over to the publisher-who wasn't accepting submissions but they took it anyway b/c she told them they needed to read it-but the waiting is very difficult. I've gotten a massive amount of rejections combining everything I have written.
So, I am still holding out for this publisher but when (if) the no comes in then I figure I am going to say yes. To myself. hahaha. i already have a createspace account and am looking around for a e-book place to format for me. Have you ever heard of bookbaby?
So do you have an author website? Did you design it yourself?
Christopher John wrote: "Yeah if I was offered a deal it would be tough not to take it...for now I do a lot of message boarding, bloging, facebooking; smashwords has great connections and there are many sites that have gro..."I also hear that it takes time to build up sales....I enjoy the netwroking too but it is very time consuming. and sometimes it takes away from my writing time.
Hey all - Scuse the massive essay but here's my take on things...
My book is self-pubbed (and btw, thanks for that contact list - that looks fab!). I'm actually really enjoying the whole thing - but then I'm a technogeek who likes people and is not expecting to make megabucks, so it's a win-win situation imho.
I've been writing stuff in various genres forever - did a blog of 5k words a week for about 3 years, which was surprisingly useful, and recently took off with the fantasy thing. I had my cover done by Fena Lee, an exceedingly talented fellow NaNoWriMo-er.
I'm also lucky enough that one of my friends is a playwright with a good handle on story arc, so she did the story editing, while another friend of mine who proofs theses at Uni has proofed it for me, so I'm pretty pleased with the result and I think it's a reasonable standard.
I did the formatting myself, which was a pretty steep learning curve but appeals to my geekstreak; and given that my aim in uploading was to have people read the story and hopefully enjoy it, I have no great expectations.
What I'm finding is that initially it's been quite difficult to get it to people's notice - some of you on here have been kind enough to agree to review it, and I think that should help, but it's quite interesting talking with other authors as there doesn't seem to be a recipe for success. Some people sell a load when they go round the forums; for others it's FB or Twitter, and yet others find reviews are the magic bullet. What I am finding is that there is quite a community of authors and they are fabulously supportive -it's great.
Back on-topic though, from what I've heard, the main diffs between self-pub and trad are these:
Costs; for website etc - equal in both. You will be expected to set up your own "platform" either way, and are likely to do the same amount of marketing.
Advance: Trad-pub will give you an amount of money. This is an advance on your royalties. When you have earned that amount back in royalties and paid off what is essentially a loan, you start getting royalties through. Sometimes this is never.
Editing and publicity: Self-pubbers should find someone to edit and proof for them, and preferably do a cover. Trad-pubbers have no input on this - BUT it will be done more or less thoroughly according to how well the publisher expects it to sell. Also there are a few horror stories to do with this - authors asked to change the sex of the main character, change a tragedy to have a happy ending, turn historical fiction into vampires, and more....
On the publicity front, publisher's attention (for which read their willingness to spend money on it)can be equally hit and miss. According to one guy, his books were in every bookstore in town for 6 weeks; then the publisher decided it wasn't selling, recalled it and pulped the lot - but the guy was still bound by contract for 2yrs and so couldn't republish elsewhere until his contract was up.
Royalties: Trad-pubbers are lucky if they get 15% and the agent will get some too. Self-pubbers get 30% to 75% on ebooks; hardcopies probably less profitable but some use them as loss-leaders.
Time: sounds to me like both lots of authors spend similar amounts of time marketing, networking etc; the main diff time-wise is the editing and formatting of the MS.
The real decider for me (given that I'd never submitted my MS to anyone at all) was that if you're under contract and the publisher lets your work go out of print, there's an end of it till the contract lapses, whereas if it's self-pubbed, you simply leave it up there. It might only sell one copy, but that's one copy more than you would if it was out of print.
Basically, there didn't really seem to be much to be gained by trad-publishing except kudos, and if people like the book I am more than happy for them to call me any kind of self-pubbing troglodyte! (Esp if they can spell it correctly.... heheheh).Of course it's horses for courses; for some people the validation of being chosen is very important, and I respect their right to think so.
As for me, I write whether anybody reads it or not, for my own pleasure; so to be given the chance of uploading it and sharing it with others without spending more than the money it cost me to bagsy my URL is a fantastic opportunity.
You are right that it takes a long time to build up sales - I uploaded in March and have probably sold less than 50 from Amazon (though I've given away about 150 to Operation eBookDrop, friends and reviewers)- but then there's no end-date on it. Unless something drastic happens, it's going to be up there for the foreseeable; even if there's no growth at all and it sells 20 copies a month for the rest of my life - well, that's all going to add up. Hopefully it will pay a few bills at worst; and given that it will be a series, hopefully people who read one book will be interested in the rest.
The money's not the point of it for me, but time is; if I ever get to the point where I can afford to go half-time with the day-job, I'll be deliriously happy. I'm not banking on that, obviously; but in the interim, having people read my book is just fantastic.
I'm loving it already. I think self-pub has a bad image at the moment because there is a lot of very bad unedited unproofed stuff out there; but there are also some excellent, professional-level indies that I've read and some terrible trad-pubs that I've read so I think the stigma will wear off eventually.
For me, it's fantastic. For the rest of you - well, you'll have to make up your own minds... but any questions or anything you need a hand with, you know where to find me.
JAC
er. whoops! That really was an essay....sorry!JAC
I don't know if any of you guys have seen this, BubbleCow tweeted earlier... but it's quite a really interesting article on the pros and cons of self vs publishing!http://annerallen.blogspot.com/2011/0...
Interesting article, jo. Agree re small-presses - the little indie ones seem to be quite savvy and really care about turning out a quality product.The other good point I read somewhere was: why look at it as an either / or question? Some books work better trad-pubbed, others as indies, so if you get picked up by a publisher, release your book through the medium you think suits it best.
JAC
J.a. wrote: "Hey all - Scuse the massive essay but here's my take on things...
My book is self-pubbed (and btw, thanks for that contact list - that looks fab!). I'm actually really enjoying the whole thing -..."
Wow!!! Loved the essay! Just kidding. No, really, you make some great points. Self pubbing has great advantages and traditional pubbling has them as well, and I think your right too, it isn't an either/or thing....its what suits you best and that might be different for different books.
Great Insight JA and thanks so much for sharing!!!
Jo wrote: "I don't know if any of you guys have seen this, BubbleCow tweeted earlier... but it's quite a really interesting article on the pros and cons of self vs publishing!http://annerallen.blogspot.com/..."
This was an interesting article. I have to say I am not sure that an ebook is the query...but hey money talks and so does a lot of sales. Thanks for sharing the link Jo!
Shoshana, what are you writing and how far along is it?JAC
If you can sell an ebook and gain popularity on your own won't it be easier to find a traditional agent and publisher on the next piece if you had trouble this time?
Shoshana wrote: "I finally decided to e-pub because, although most of the agents I've shopped my book to have given encouraging feedback about the premise of the story, they have universally said this book doesn't ..."Great luck to you Shoshana! What is the genre of your book? I can always admire a girl who takes things into her own hands!! When you do get it published make sure you post and tell us all where to find it!
Jenn wrote: "If you can sell an ebook and gain popularity on your own won't it be easier to find a traditional agent and publisher on the next piece if you had trouble this time?"One would think so. I think it depends on the amount you have sold and how much buzz it is getting.....
Please note that I have edited my previous long post with the contact email list.....I have changed editors and I am now using Amy! You all know her as the awesome moderator around here!! I think that Amy and I work well together and she has a great understanding of writing and English!
Mod
Mod
Jenn, if you do have success in self-publishing, it could very well be much easier to find a publisher for future books. I'm sure it goes without saying that you have to keep up the same level of quality that the successful book was at. :-)
Amy wrote: "AWE!! Thanks Cambria!! You are awesome!! :-)"Anytime!! :)
