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Apr. On the Soul of a Vampire by Krisi Keley/Spoilers
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Aw, I hope things lighten up for you soon, Trish.
Hi Trish,Thank you so much for this oppportunity to share a little about On the Soul of a Vampire! We've had some roof leaks this year over at our place too, so you have my sympathy. I hope everything's going okay with that for you.
Hi Nike and Elisa!
Instead of trying to list all the ideas in the story, I thought maybe I could just touch on a few of the questions it might bring up in the reader's mind and then let readers and prospective readers think on and/or discuss those ideas themselves. This novel is the first story in a trilogy, so some of the ideas are not yet fully examined and the questions may provoke different reflection and answers as the story continues. Everyone please add any questions not mentioned that were/are brought up in your reading of the story and I'll do my best to any answer any questions you might have for me too.
I'll post an Intro and then each of the questions in a separate comment section, hopefully to make it easier to discuss each.
Thank you so much again to all who would like to participate in the discussion!
Although On the Soul of a Vampire is a supernatural speculative fiction story in which the main character and narrator is a vampire, it's essentially a human story about the soul's relationship to the divine, God's great love for us that will go to any lengths to bring back one of His children to Him and the suffering and temptation in human life that can cause one to lose faith and hope, the self-justification to commit sin and the problem of human beings judging another's soul as good or evil, rather than judging only another's actions. Several theological ideas are woven subtly into the plot, but the story still asks the reader to reflect on many complex issues.In this first story of the trilogy, an 800 year old vampire meets a young mortal woman who mysteriously knows everything about him and his history. Though she recognizes the creature he is and is aware of all his deeds, she seems less interested in explaining this mystery than she is in convincing him he is not the evil and irredeemable creature myth has claimed a vampire to be. Taking the reader on a journey through the vampire, Valéry's, past, it delves into the mystery of who Angelina is to him, what the soul is and how it is connected to God.
Below are two of the first questions the story might make a reader contemplate.
1) Unlike most other vampire stories, On the Soul of a Vampire claims that this creature’s true desire is not really to drink blood, to possess another’s soul or to take life, but something more spiritual still. It is a form of the fulfillment that all human beings seek. Because of this, the vampires in this tale cannot choose to live on the blood of animals, visit the local blood bank or only drain enough blood to feed them, sparing their victim. For them to live, a mortal victim must die, which makes it a choice between their own life and the life of another human being.As such, can these vampires be compared to serial killers who kill compulsively due to some mental illness or personality disorder which drives them to cause pain or wield power over another, but who do not need to kill to live, or can they be compared to human beings who must make the choice whether to kill in self-defense or in war, where it might be suggested that we also must make a choice between our own life and the life of another? A choice for which we may feel conflicted or remorseful, but in which we still make a decision regarding the worth of different lives? Which do you think these vampires resemble more and why? If there is a difference between what they do and what human beings do, what is this difference?
2) In the story of Job, Satan sets out to prove that even the most faithful and righteous of men will lose faith and hope in God if faced with enough pain. God disagrees and His conviction that Job will not turn from Him despite all his suffering is proved the truer conviction. Nonetheless, Job does question God about why He allows such suffering, while Job’s friends insist he must have committed some terrible sin to have brought it down on himself. And in the end, God’s answer seems only to be that we, as humans, cannot ever fully understand His reasons.Do you, as a reader, see a parallel in the suffering Valéry endures and is his bitterness at feeling abandoned and his struggle with faith in a loving God understandable? Does it change your view of the hostility of non-believers to think that they, too, might be suffering, rather than simply denying God for more selfish reasons? Do you think most who endure such suffering would be able to persist in seeing themselves as a good and beloved child of God or would they, like Job’s friends, start to fear that they are being punished or cursed for some terrible sin they’ve committed? How might this affect one’s faith and hope in God?
For them to live, a mortal victim must die, which makes it a choice between their own life and the life of another human being. I think this is the most compelling element in this entire story, the one that rang so true to me from the beginning. It is original and rings 100% true to me.
I don't have a question...right now...but I love this book. :)
Ellen wrote: "For them to live, a mortal victim must die, which makes it a choice between their own life and the life of another human being. I think this is the most compelling element in this entire story, t..."
Thank you so much, Ellen! I know if anyone knows all the interesting questions the vampire legend inspires, it is the author of the awesome Rabbit: Chasing Beth Rider and The Judging series.
I'm really honored and touched by your kind comment and look forward to whatever insight you can bring to the discussion! :-D
Hi Krisi, and Goodreads friends, I've been typing and proofing all day, so words are simply running together. But I did want to pop in and say that I do own this book, and I absolutely love it. It is a deep, philosophical and theological read.
Here's a true story: I made a "swap" with the author, Krisi Keley, for this book. When it arrived in the mail, I was elated, but sure wished the author had signed it. After reading the storyline, I was floored by its depth, and I went so far as to e-mail Krisi, asking her if I may send the book back to her, along with a few bucks for return shipping, just to have the book signed by her.
Thankfully, she obliged me, and didn't deem me a fruitcake. Yes, friends, I think the book is that good, due to its thought-provoking depth. I am a fan.
Blessings, Krisi, and thank you for signing my book!
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P.S. She was also kind enough to send it back without reimbursement!
Thank you so much, Teric! But I got the better deal in the swap, since I got to hear your beautiful music AND the special gift of your U-TURN KiLLuR!I'm a big fan of yours too and thank you for remembering to sign your book even though I forgot to sign mine!
Blessings to you!
Miss you all... will be back once I am accustomed to my new work schedule. Press on...
I don't have the book, unfortunately, but from the plot it sounds very, very well-thought out. The fact that you seem to have a huge Biblical grounding in this story is awesome. I'm interested, but can't really buy at the moment. It's going on my to-read list though, and I regret that I can't really be too involved in a discussion as far as points about the plot, but still! I'm looking forward to this discussion.
Hi everyone!Toni, thank you so much for dropping in for a visit. Your new work schedule is in my prayers!
Elisa, thanks so much! I'm going to post two more questions below and I'll try my best to avoid major spoilers. I'll attempt to speak like Angelina and be as vague and confusing as possible! :-D
Question 3 will reference the above remark, while Question 4 delves into more of the somewhat abstract theology in the story. Anyone who feels the need to run screaming from that one, I will understand. LOL! But I thought I should put it out there, since it is a very important aspect of the story.
3) Angelina often frustrates and even infuriates Valéry with the vague way she answers his questions, often speaking words that can be interpreted in more than one way. Does this frustrate you as a reader as well or does the way Angelina interacts with Valéry make sense to you (or maybe both)? Do you see a comparison with how God interacts with His children and reveals knowledge of Himself and His will to us? How is this related to free will?
4) In the story, what a vampire experiences to know a victim in the taking of his or her life is said to be a fuller experience of the bodily union in marriage, based on the Catholic understanding of marriage as sacramental (because in the marital union human beings are imaging, in a real and bodily way, the union of Persons in the Trinity - ie., two separate persons united through Love or the Holy Spirit), while the vampire is experiencing a taste of the “next” union – that is, a spiritual, rather than corporeal, union of two separate beings through love, in preparation for union with God, the ultimate Other, as it were.Considering how powerful an experience the “preparatory” physical union is for human beings, does this allow you to sympathize with why these vampires, despite the self-hatred and remorse they feel over what they do, find it nearly impossible to give up knowing this taste of Heaven on earth? Do you see it as comparable to human beings’ frequent inability to resist the temptations of the flesh no matter how terrible the consequences and/or do you think it can help explain why physical desire is so much more significant than simply an instinctual biological need?
Again, sorry about this one, everyone, but it is a big aspect of the story and I'm curious as to how clearly it came across. :-)
Krisi wrote: "1) Unlike most other vampire stories, On the Soul of a Vampire claims that this creature’s true desire is not really to drink blood, to possess another’s soul or to take life, but something more s..."Hi Krisi,
Of course, your questions are a reflection of your story- both very, very deep! In response to your first question:
When I initially read your excellent script, my mind diverted on a spiritual trek (as is often the case). I do believe that people can be "vampires" in that some tend to suck the life right out of their fellow man via varying methods, whether physically, mentally, emotionally, or spiritually.
Physically: Yes, a "vampire" may be a serial killer, who will not die if he doesn't kill, but who thinks he is not "living" if he does not. As a killer's bloodlust increases, his whole life begins to revolve around that blood satiation.
What about the rapist? I believe that they are vampires, and/or those who steal another person's virginity and/or innocence... especially against their will. In my book, they are a vampire.
War: Yes, I believe that "vampirism" is a spiritual war. It is that wrestling against the powers and principalities of the air, from the fallen one who slithers amok through this realm, doing his best to destroy The Almighty's most treasured creation: Mankind- the only creation made in His image physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.
What about false prophets/fake preachers/wolves in sheep's clothing who pervert the truth, bind others by the worldly cord of legalism, cause the little ones to stumble, and the young sheep to go astray? I believe they are vampires.
What about a husband who no longer loves his wife, or the wife who no longer loves her husband: What love once put together, mankind has torn asunder, sucking the blood out of the other as they fight, slaughtering each other with all forms of verbal and physical abuse AND neglect...
The bottom line: anytime mankind fails to love the Lord God with all of our heart, soul, and strength, and anytime we cease to love our neighbor as ourselves, we run the risk of becoming that bloodsucking vampire: the creature who destroys another whether by word, deed, or neglect.
The way I perceive mankind's current state: we have all been vampires at varying points in our lives; all of us, a hideous creature at times throughout the dark nights of our souls. Thank The Almighty for the One who came with the power to transform us from our sins into a new creation.
Vampires are continuously put to death on that execution stake: the very cross of the Christ, Jesus, and they are raised to life through Him, being made complete in union with the Christ. I lost my fangs in 1980, and I will be a work in progress until the coming of that Day.
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Krisi wrote: "2) In the story of Job, Satan sets out to prove that even the most faithful and righteous of men will lose faith and hope in God if faced with enough pain. God disagrees and His conviction that J..."While studying Theology, I remember one of my instructors making a statement that most people will have an initial view of God in the way that they see their parents. I agree with that.
If a person has neglectful/non-active parents, they may perceive God as the "faraway Father" who doesn't really care or isn't involved.
If a person has abusive parents, they may see the "God of wrath," but fail to see the "God of love."
Of course, the Bible clearly states that God is love, and that He has mercy and grace. But to those who have hardened their hearts, essentially waging war on Him... everyone will reap what they sow.
All that to say that I understand how/why some people would feel unloved by God, or that they would have a hard time trusting Him, as they are reflections of who/how their parents were to them. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why The Almighty said it is better for a millstone to be tied around one's neck and they be cast into the ocean as opposed to them causing one of God's little ones to stumble.
I won't even pretend to know the depths of The Almighty and His ways, but I can vouch for this: His fingers reach far in loving and caring for His creation. After all, He spared not His only Son: Jesus the Christ, God in the Flesh... Imanu'el, meaning "God with us."
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Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "1) Unlike most other vampire stories, On the Soul of a Vampire claims that this creature’s true desire is not really to drink blood, to possess another’s soul or to take life, but so..."Thank you so much for your great response in sharing your reflections. You have made some very interesting and significant points and I agree that in all the cases you mentioned human beings can be very much like the traditional bloodsucking vampire you speak of. With that type of vampire, the compulsion to feed on blood or life is an obsession which seems to overrule any sense of morality or respect for life said vampire had in mortal life, or at least in those cases where the vampire is described as being left with any conscience or other human quality such as love, faith, hope, remorse, etc. Serial killers, rapists, and any human being who exhibits a profound lack of love for his/her fellow man and uses another in such a parasitical way only to serve his or her own needs could fairly be called vampire-like. And most definitely, the symbolism of their being put to death by a stake is very apt.
In On the Soul of a Vampire, however, as you noted by the quote you prefaced your comment with, the suggestion is that the traditional bloodsucking vampire mythos is folklore’s misinterpretation of what the creature is really sustained by, which I at least intended would bring up the question of how much vampires (as they are in this story, anyway) are like human beings, rather than how much human beings can resemble the traditional blood or life-sucking vampire.
In On the Soul, vampires are not feeding on blood or life or even the soul of their victims; they are looking for the union that all human beings look for but which they are only meant to have in bodily death and rebirth into new life. As such, they are still very much humans, but ones that are essentially trapped in the corporeal form, so to speak, forever searching for what they could not have when being made a vampire took away their ability to die. Unlike serial killers, who are frequently, though by no means always, socio or psychopaths who lack a conscience or empathy for other human beings, these vampires actually know and love human beings in a way more profound than their fellow human beings do, because of the very thing they experience in taking a human life. They also are very much still in possession of all those human qualities mentioned – love, hope, remorse… So basically they have become creatures that love life in its very spiritual essence but are doomed to destroy it, so they themselves might live. To compound the problem, they suffer with a literal d**ned if you do, d**ned if you don’t mentality, in that the only seeming solution is suicide and, as they see it, suicide is as hell-worthy an offense as murder.
The reasons I wanted the story to portray vampires as being in this rather horrifically inescapable position are manifold and I fear I could write a book about the book on that topic! Some of the basic reasons were that I was looking for an explanation of why a frightening creature frequently represented as parasitical and murderous beings has come to be so intimately linked with sexuality and seduction (even to be named for such), and linking their desire for union to every human’s desire for it seemed a rational and theologically-sound explanation. I also was looking to come up with a feasible explanation for why such a creature would be immortal, when blood-drinking alone can’t explain it (note creatures like the leech, the mosquito and the vampire bat still die). The most important reasons though, were theological ones and I really wanted the story to allow reflection on forgiveness, justification for sin and the human tendency to judge others much more harshly than we judge ourselves. For that reason, these vampires are not demonic beings, are not cursed by God and are not supernatural monsters; they are human beings who, whether by choice or by circumstance, are faced with same questions we all are to some degree. So they can live (here on earth), they are deciding who it is “justifiable” to kill or are, in some way, putting the worth of their own lives before the worth of someone else’s. Although the comparison cannot be exact, of course, and there’s plenty of room for argument, some of the fundamental questions I hoped the story would leave readers with are: are we ever justified in killing another human being no matter how wrong or evil we judge their actions; if God can forgive any sin, even that human beings killed God in the flesh, mustn’t we also forgive every sin; and a host of other questions about faith, hope, love and the relationship between our physical and spiritual desires.
That aside, whatever my intentions in writing the story, I love to hear all the diverse ideas it inspires readers to consider, as I really wanted it to be that type of story which could speak to people in an individual way in their ongoing spiritual journey, since it was written very much as part of mine. So thank you very much again for your very insightful and thought-provoking reponse!
But I do apologize for the long response to your comment. It's a problem I'm trying to work on!
:-D
Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "2) In the story of Job, Satan sets out to prove that even the most faithful and righteous of men will lose faith and hope in God if faced with enough pain. God disagrees and His con..."Hi Teric,
I promise I'll be shorter answering this one!
I agree with your instructor that the relationship with one's parent(s) has a profound effect on how a person views God. Interestingly, although I think the cases you mentioned are probably the more common, I think a neglectful or abusive parent can have the opposite effict for some too, in that they seek in God what they are not getting from their earthly parents.
In this story, the reader doesn't learn much of anything about Valéry's parents, but as I have some inside knowledge there, I will say they are not the primary reason for his struggle with faith. In his case, it is very much a feeling of abandonment, above all else. The suffering he endures - being taken into slavery while trying to serve God, seeing his friends die on the journey, watching children be martyred, and being tricked into immortality while thinking he at last was about to have an end to this earthly suffering, all between the ages of 14 and 19, when a person is generally too young to reflect on the reasons God may allow His children to suffer in such a way - leaves him with so much pain (and guilt for both feeling that pain and his response to it), that it shakes his faith most terribly. This is further compounded by his getting an up close and personal view of man's atrocities against his fellow man for eight centuries of human history.
None of this is meant to excuse his behavior in 1997, of course, nor to suggest suffering excuses such behavior in any other human being either. But again, it was meant to allow reflection on all the possible reasons a person may come to be in such a bitter state and reflection on our response to that bitterness in others.
Thank you again for your wonderful reflection on one of the questions! Your ideas are always so inspiring to me too and give me much more to think about. I appreciate it so much! :-)
Am in the process of reading the book, Krisi, but I just wanted to say how awesome it is that you're just brimming with information about the world. You know an author has put a lot of time and effort into a story when that happens, and it makes me excited!
Krisi wrote: "Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "2) In the story of Job, Satan sets out to prove that even the most faithful and righteous of men will lose faith and hope in God if faced with enough pain. God disagre..."Of course, all this brings up a good point: As Valery travels through the ages, he sees mankind's inhumanity toward his fellow man: all the violence, wars, murders, rapes, strife, starving, suffering, etc... Funny, then, that he begins to become what he's learned to hate in a different sense.
Nonetheless, Valery sees the horrific displays of mankind, and yet he questions God. Perhaps Valery should be mad at mankind- for are we not, generally speaking and barring unique instances- responsible for our own actions? I believe we are. It all happened at Gan 'Eden- the garden- when mankind first rebelled against God. We've been giving Him the middle finger ever since, letting Him know "we'll be doing things OUR way from here-on-out, thank you, very much," and of course, in our pride, rebellion and stubbornness, we would rather things grow increasingly worse as they have been rather than get on our knees and repent.
The blame belongs on man: made in the image of The Almighty, therefore having free will, and yet we fell from the heights- that perfect relationship with Him in the garden... a little like one particular falling star that I know of.
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Krisi wrote: "3) Angelina often frustrates and even infuriates Valéry with the vague way she answers his questions, often speaking words that can be interpreted in more than one way. Does this frustrate you as..."I grew very frustrated with Angelina at one point. I wanted to say, "Out with it, already!" And I think I even began rooting for Valery a little: Angelina's neck began looking rather inviting, and I wanted to snap it like a twig. Okay, I'm being a bit dramatic here, but yes, Angelina began to grate on me after a while. The saving grace: I believe you address this very issue in the book, which allows the reader to know: "Okay, the author is doing this on purpose- the vagueness is for a reason. When I learned this, it made it all okay for me, as I knew there was a purpose for the madness! LOL!
God doesn't force us to do anything; we are not puppets or clones or robots. If we have no choice but to love something, then is it really love?
As for God showing Himself to us: He has and still does, for all that is natural around us, yes, even us- our very body and being- is actually supernatural. We are merely accustomed to our surroundings. Space is weightless, yet everything stays in orbit; our countless cells and body parts that function completely in synch; the unseen air we breathe containing just the right elements and percentage of elements to sustain our life- everything is supernatural, we are simply used to it. And history, itself, accounts for the crucifixion of the most controversial man in all of history, who claimed he would raise the destroyed temple in three days, and what... His body is unaccounted for; the guards at His tomb could not locate Him, and no one has been able to since! Of course, it is just as He said: the destroyed temple was raised in three days!
Jesus made a profound statement (most things He said were):
Mat 16:4 "'A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.' Jesus then left them and went away."
We are so wicked in modern society. We are always looking for "that sign," and yet we see the supernatural hand of God everyday. The sign of Jonah- Jesus' resurrection- still stands. It is like a neon sign glowing in the dark, beckoning "whosoever will" to come.
Elisa wrote: "Am in the process of reading the book, Krisi, but I just wanted to say how awesome it is that you're just brimming with information about the world. You know an author has put a lot of time and ef..."Thank you so much, Elisa! I hope you're enjoying the story. I never know how much I really know about the world, but I do love to study human nature. And strange as it may sound, considering the vampire aspect of the story, this was very much a "write what you know" type of novel for me. I'm very sympathetic to Valéry's pain and struggles because, like many, I have experienced similar difficulties in understanding God's will, discovering my reason to be, and the meaning of suffering, among other things, although certainly not to the degree he experieces them.
Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "2) In the story of Job, Satan sets out to prove that even the most faithful and righteous of men will lose faith and hope in God if faced with enough pain..."You are very correct, Teric, that is a sad irony, but a very common one I think. Very frequently people are dissuaded from belief in God and/or in the teachings of Christ because of Christians or, I should say, the actions of Christians. It seems very much to be a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water, in which human beings decide they can't believe something is true because other human beings are not acting on what they claim to believe as truth. I actually think all human beings struggle with this to some degree, Christians and other faithful people included. I'm sympathetic to it, even if I don't agree with the assumptions behind it. For instance, I don't think most people would disagree with the conclusions of a particular mathematician or scientist because they didn't like his personal behavior. And certainly many have continued to believe in the tenets of certain political or philosophical views, despite extremely atrocious behavior on the part of some of their proponents and practitioners. Nonetheless, this does become a more complex problem when a person says he/she believes something to be a divine or absolute truth, but then acts very contrary to it. I think it is the expectation that if one had truly received the gift of such a truth, it would transform them completely in a living example of that truth. Obviously, this is not the case - an understanding of and the attempt to live truth, both, are a lifelong process or continual conversion and there is so much in corrupted human nature that must be struggled with along the way. In any case, it does very much speak for how responsible we human beings are for our fellow man - that it is not only the disbeliever who might be responsible for causing one to stumble, but the believer as well.
Now, in the particular case of Valéry, from my perspective anyway, things are more complicated still. As Angelina points out to him, he has never really lost his faith at all, as he thinks he has; he is bitter, not truly unbelieving. But he hasn't really "become what he hates" because of what he's seen other human beings do. He's become a being that needs to kill to live this earthy life because of what someone else did to him. Yet he fears that he was easily confused or led to this because he doubted in a time of great pain. So his bitterness springs out of both his inability to understand why God did not prevent the terrible things that happened to him, his guilt that his doubt brought it down on him, and then his sense of unfairness that such doubt in suffering deserved such a punishment from a loving God. A very nasty cirle of pain and confusion, but one I think many people experience.
In any case, Valéry does not blame God for human sin, nor does he really question God's existence because of it. Instead, he's already in a place where he feels abandoned by God and wants to deny Him because of it, so he doesn't have to feel the pain of thinking himself responsible for what he's become, and watching human beings commit even more inhumanity against their fellow man and on a grander scale than a vampire actually could, I would say only allows him to justify, albeit in a darkly aware-of-what-he's-doing way, his own choice to live no matter the consequences.
And yes, it is true that human beings often look for miraculous signs as proof of God's existence, while denying all the other evidence of it around and inside of them. In Valéry's case though, I think the sign he wants most of all is that there was a reason for it all and that God does still love him, and the wellspring of so much of his pain at the time he meets Angelina is that he has lost all sense that there is a reason and doesn't believe God can love and forgive him because he can't love and forgive himself.
Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "3) Angelina often frustrates and even infuriates Valéry with the vague way she answers his questions, often speaking words that can be interpreted in more than one way. Does this fr..."LOL! Yes, she is very frustrating, isn't she? And you are exactly right, it is all about the freedom God give us. However human Angelina may be, in her interaction with Valéry, she is very much acting on another nature and though she never misleads him or says anything that is untrue, she does leave him with needing to interpret everything she says through his own experience and knowledge and then to make choices based on his interpretations. Kind of like God does, some might suggest. And even though she does, as you noted, explain some of the reasons eventually, even her explanation is rather open for multiple interpretations. That is also necessary, because God is not even close to done in His work with Valéry, but there is an answer in the end. Just not the end of On the Soul, as that is definitely not the end of the story! Valéry doesn't know half of what he thinks he does at that point and the reader has to take the journey with him but, in consolation, there are hints of what's to come - quite a number of them. Angelina is just very good at forcing a person to forget their assumptions and then pay very close attention to her wording. And another reason this infuriates Valéry so much is that she's not the first person he's met like this. The other you'll meet in Book II.
Speaking of Book II: I heard a rumor of a super-deluxe trilogy boxed set to be released in the unforeseen future, complete with Valery and Angelina action figures. What's the scoop?
Teric wrote: "Speaking of Book II: I heard a rumor of a super-deluxe trilogy boxed set to be released in the unforeseen future, complete with Valery and Angelina action figures. What's the scoop?"Ha, ha, ha! I wonder who started that rumor! But it's definitely a rumor I like. :-D We shall see.
But maybe this is your encouragement for me to share my joyful news that a new edition of On the Soul of a Vampire, with a beautiful new cover, is going to be released by TreasureLine Books, as is Book II, in the near future? For this incredible blessing I am tremendously grateful to two brilliant and fantastically supportive TreasureLine authors, Teric Darken and Ellen C. Maze, to TLP publisher, Linda Boulanger and, of course, to God, from Whom all blessings originate. I'm not sure of OTSOAV's re-release date yet, so I've been hesitant to share too publically, even though I admit I've been bursting to!
Now, about those action figures - they sure would be a sight to behold! But you might want to wait till you meet the whole cast and crew in Book II. Then you could have a whole set of figures, complete with a vintage replica of European cemetery crypts! Hee, hee.
Thanks so much, Teric, for everything! And not the least of these being all your great comments here, which are giving me all the brain strain pain in trying to respond that I deserve for wreaking it on others! :-D
Krisi wrote: "4) In the story, what a vampire experiences to know a victim in the taking of his or her life is said to be a fuller experience of the bodily union in marriage, based on the Catholic understanding..."The Almighty made a helpmate for Adam for a reason. Of course, I don't think Adam being lonely was anything that took God by surprise. I believe that the physical yearning for a soul-mate is actually a portion of a deeper, spiritual yearning- something deeply instilled in every person by the hand of The Almighty. The physical aspect is simply the tip of the iceberg to a deeper, more meaningful relationship.
Unfortunately, mankind with our sin nature has perverted yet another beautiful gift from the hand of the Author of Life... not to imply that everyone has, but in context with the sexually oriented crimes we hear about on the six o'clock news. And, even more unfortunate, there are many more crimes of said nature that go undiscovered.
Teric wrote: "Krisi wrote: "1) Unlike most other vampire stories, On the Soul of a Vampire claims that this creature’s true desire is not really to drink blood, to possess another’s soul or to take life, but so..."As long as you keep writing Teric, I will keep reading. Keep bleeding the pen, my friend!
Krisi,Here is one thing I would like to discuss and/or bring to light about On the Soul of a Vampire:
As is to be expected in many works of Contemporary Christian Fiction, there is an expletive or two within the storyline. And literally, I can only remember two. I know this is a controversial topic for some, and my purpose is not to stir up controversy. I have used expletives in my works too- in varying places where I felt the usage in dialogue was keeping the story real/believable. My usage is never gratuitous, and I received the same vibe from your work- that it was not gratuitous.
That said, I was cruising through your novel at a very nice, even keel, when BAM! I was hit by a word or two that gave me reason to pause. I wasn't offended by the word(s), but I had the initial question as to why the particular expletive used was chosen.
Of course, I asked you about it, and I appreciated and hold respect for your answer. But for other readers out there who may encounter this, I was wondering if we might discuss the subject publicly- particularly with your work, as well as other works of Christian fiction that may use this practice?
Thanks and blessings, Krisi!
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Teric, are curse words controversial? I know my mom and many other Christian authority figures in my childhood said never say them because they're bad, but other than that I know nothing. I just know that I hate cursing at people, saying it as an expletive, not necessarily saying the word itself arbitrarily. But maybe that's wrong. I've never really understood the hang up on that subject, and I never mind it in stories if it makes sense. That being said, a spree of constant curse words will make me roll my eyes because that's usually the sign of writer's error.
Just my two cents. =)
Just my two cents. =)
Hi Teric and Elisa,This is a very good question, I think, and probably one every writer, especially every Christian writer, would answer differently.
Like you, Elisa, I always thought there was some kind of distinction between cursing at people (or worse, cursing people) and just using bad language. Not that bad language is desirable either way, but I guess it was just the attitude I grew up around.
Of course, the two expletives in On the Soul definitely fall into the cursing, rather than foul language category, although I wouldn't say Valéry actually intends to curse Angelina; he's just expressing his frustration rather harshly. In this particular story, I had him do so simply because I thought it was realistic. Someone in the state he's in and experiencing the emotions he is at the time is fairly apt to let loose whatever comes to mind without much forethought. In addition, considering that he sees himself as a cursed and murderous being who turned his back on God long ago, uttering the words he does would, undoubtedly, be the least of his concerns.
As far as using expletives in Christian fiction at all, I think it would depend on the plot and what the author is trying to get across. If the character in the story is, like Valery, bitter with God, or is a non-believer or is purposely setting out to act against his or her Christian beliefs, it would seem unrealistic if they showed a concern for using particular words or expressions. The way we speak, at least to some degree, gets across some of our inner relationship with God and with others, and if this is a major factor in the story, it wouldn't fit with the character development to have the person refrain from speaking words many consider pretty normal, since they wouldn't have the same moral views on language than many Christians do. And if a story is particularly about a person who is extremely far from God and on a very long path to redemption, using language as one way to show the state they are in, compared to the one they will one day reach, seems like a valid one, as it is very true to real life.
Of course, that's just an explanation of where I was coming from as a writer and not a writer who was writing a story with the sole purpose of targeting a particular audience either. That is, I didn't write On the Soul to specifically be Christian fiction in the sense of fiction for Christians, so much as fiction for a general audience from a Christian (in my case, Catholic) perspective that uses theological ideas as the basis for the plot for further reflection. More what some would call speculative fiction, I think, where the goal is to present ideas to be reflected upon rather than present a given idea as an absolute truth.
I'm not sure if I really answered your question to me specifically there, Teric! But I would definitely love to hear other author and reader ideas on this subject.
Thanks so much again, Teric and Elisa! :-D
Elisa wrote: "Teric, are curse words controversial? I know my mom and many other Christian authority figures in my childhood said never say them because they're bad, but other than that I know nothing. I just ..."Hi Elisa,
To answer your question directly: Yes, I do believe they are controversial, to say the least. That said, I don't say that as one who casts judgment on anyone who says them. I will be very honest with you and everyone who may read this: I am a work in progress, and taming my tongue has been one of the hardest things for me to do in my life. Of course, I am relying on the Lord's help, and I already have the victory only through Him. But in saying that, I am not saying that I never say cuss words anymore. I am working toward that goal!
I used to think that cussing was no big deal; after all, who is the person who decided "This word will be a cuss word (expletive), and this word is okay to say." That used to frustrate me. But then I came across two verses of scripture which changed my attitude about my language:
“Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.” James 3:5 & 6
“Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Ephesians 4:29 - 32
I think we can all agree that cussing is unwholesome talk; it typically does little to edify- ourselves or others- if at all.
Colossians 4:6 also tells us to let our language be seasoned with salt (a preservative).
At any rate, I do incorporate cuss words into my script where I deem appropriate, or in order to make the script believable. Not all of the characters in my stories live behind stain-glassed windows. In fact, most of them don't, but my stories tend to deal with those who don't, and then moves them toward a closer relationship with the Father and His Son (which doesn't necessarily mean "church," although church can be an important aspect of a believer's life, especially for discipleship).
I brought up the subject that I did because I have read Krisi Keley's book; I have a lot of respect for the author of whose work we're discussing; she is a deep theologian/philosopher, and I have previously discussed this subject with her. I simply asked the same question in a public format as I know it is a topic debated amongst many Christians/Christian Authors/Christian writing groups. I wanted to afford Krisi the opportunity to speak on the subject publicly, just as she and I discussed the issue in private at one point.
Many times, cuss words/slang/expletives can be a cultural phenomenon. Northerners may find certain words typical in everyday conversation, and those in the south may not, and vice versa. I understand that. Again, I struggle with taming my tongue. Like the Apostle Paul once said (paraphrasing): "I do the things I don't want to do, and don't do the things that I want to do. How miserable I am!"
And that is me: if something really upsets me, or if I smash my thumb with a hammer, or if I'm in the heat of the battle at a structure fire, I might let a word or two slip. I struggle with it, and- at the very least- it is unwholesome. That said, I cast no stone at anyone who may use certain words in common language, or during "special occasions," such as myself! After all, I know we are ALL works in progress, and will be until Perfection returns and we see face to face. Until then, we are to run in such a way so as to get the prize!
P.S. Just read this tonight in my devotional. Found it interesting:
"Among you there should not even be mentioned sexual immorality, or any kind of impurity, or greed; these are utterly inappropriate for God's people. Also out of place are obscenity and stupid talk or coarse language; instead, you should be giving thanks."
Ephesians 5: 3 & 4 (Complete Jewish Bible)
Hi everyone,I have some new questions to add for discussion. For any who might be following this discussion but who have not yet read or finished reading On the Soul of a Vampire, I want to mention that some of the next several questions could contain spoilers and may even refer to ideas not fully developed in this first book, although they will be further examined in the next books of the trilogy. However, because they’re such important ideas in the story and would probably be considered some of the more abstract and speculative of those ideas, I thought it might be helpful to touch on them, for any reader who might be interested in a deeper contemplation of them. On the Soul is a fiction story, however, meant to provoke thought in an entertaining way; it isn’t a theological treatise, so sometimes these ideas can’t be examined in the depth or even in the same manner they would be in a different type of work. So if anyone has further questions on them or about how they're related to the story, I am happy to try to answer those where I can.
5) Two theological ideas that are mentioned only briefly by name in the story, although they are a vital part of the plot, are incarnation and dual nature. Generally these terms are almost solely used to describe the relationship of Jesus (or Yeshua) of Nazareth to God or the Godhead. Normally when one speaks of the Incarnation (with a capital I), what is being spoken of is the Christian belief that in the person of Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity or the Logos (the Word of God), is incarnated or made flesh. Likewise, dual nature usually refers to the understanding that Jesus of Nazareth is both truly God and truly Man (human).In On the Soul of a Vampire, it’s suggested that if God wills it so, an angel could also be incarnated. There are certain Biblical passages that could be referenced to support this idea, including the story of Tobias and of Lot , among others, where angels are said to walk and talk with human beings and to perform very human actions. In those stories, though the angels are recognized as celestial beings or messengers of God, the indication is that they were seen by and interacted with human beings the same way human beings see and interact with one another. Nevertheless, this can be, perhaps, a difficult idea to contemplate, especially when it comes to the related idea of dual nature. Incarnation simply means that a being is enfleshed (literally, from the Latin, “made meat”). Human beings are themselves, of course, incarnate, in that they are material beings made of flesh, even if they do also have a spiritual nature as creations or emanations of God. The difference, therefore, comes down to what a given being is essentially or is in his/her/its essence. God is essentially divine; angels essentially celestial or perhaps better described, spiritual rather than material beings created for a different purpose than human beings were created. Nonetheless, though God is divine in His essence, through the Logos, He also manifests Himself as essentially human as well. As Jesus said it in the Gospel of John, “he who sees me, sees him who sent me.” (Jn 12:45) In this case, just as Jesus has a dual nature – is divine and human in essence – could it not be speculated that God might also choose that some of His angels have a dual nature? To further that idea, those angels who are described in the Bible as looking, speaking, acting and interacting with human beings, might they be, in fact, beings of dual nature by God’s will or design, because it was necessary for them to be so to serve a purpose God created them for – namely the interaction with human beings that required they be able to function in every way as human beings do or more simply put, that they also be human? The reason these questions are important to On the Soul is because the story is not suggesting that Angelina has simply taken on the aspect of a human or possessed a human being, but is, by the will of God, incarnate - a being of dual nature, both human and angel.
These questions are integral to the plot of On the Soul, but they also bring up interesting questions about other Biblical and apocryphal writings. One of the most significant is the idea of the Logos having an eternal dual nature when one considers the passage in Genesis where God is said to walk with Adam and Eve in the Garden. (Gn 3:8) Some theologians have suggested that because God is eternal (that is, outside of time) and the Logos (made flesh in Jesus) is the Incarnation or manifestation of God, perhaps it was this manifestation of God that Adam and Eve were able to see in the Garden before Jesus was born in time. It also brings up interesting questions about whether the idea of “fallen” angels “mating” with human beings (as some have interpreted) might be a misunderstanding, as a fallen angel is theologically a demon or follower of Lucifer, still spiritual in form as well as essence, rather than the sometimes perceived notion of an angel falling to earth and becoming material. As spiritual beings, they could not have sexual relations with humans, and a perhaps bigger problem with the second idea is that, if God created human beings and said that they were good (Gn 1:31), why would a fallen angel become human? Such an idea implies that humans are, by virtue of being material beings alone, fallen or separated from God, whereas Genesis claims otherwise and that humans were good in their creation and that it was sin which corrupted human nature.
And be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. (Heb. 13:2)
Excellent posts, Krisi. Since reading your book, I have viewed it as a work that plumbs the depths of The Almighty's mysteries. Is it Christian fiction? Ultimately, yes. But, to me, it is rife with allusion; there is no doubt that the script adheres to the fact that Jesus is the Christ, but to me, it is a read that implores perhaps the secular reader (and the Christian as well) to come and discover part of the Holy mystery that belongs to The Almighty. His ways are higher than our ways; His thoughts are higher than our thoughts; He frustrates the intelligence of the intelligent, so let's explore His splendor, beauty and depth, and give Him thanks and praise and worship. I've said it before, and I will say it again, Krisi, this is a very deep, thought provoking book. It's not a drive-thru burger that one can devour. On the Soul is a Porterhouse steak meant to savor and mull over.
Two thumbs up, friend!
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Teric wrote: "Excellent posts, Krisi. Since reading your book, I have viewed it as a work that plumbs the depths of The Almighty's mysteries. Is it Christian fiction? Ultimately, yes. But, to me, it is rife ..."Thank you so much, Teric, for those so kind and supportive words! You are exactly right to say the story is just one person's attempt to reflect on the awesome mystery of God. This is something I love to do and have wanted to share because I consider it such a wondrous gift - that the Lord gives us this ability to contemplate the beauty of His love with our minds and hearts as well as with our souls. And while I know He is a mystery beyond anything my human mind will ever be able to comprehend here, I always hope that any attempt we make to accept His invitation to know Him better is a form of praise and worship. I never forget that it is said St. Thomas Aquinas, despite the depth and beauty of his Summa Theologica, remarked after a vision before his death, that all he had written was as if nothing, because it couldn't even come close to the true awesomeness of God. And yet, who could count how many people the Lord has been able to touch and bring closer to Him through St. Thomas' reflections? It's an honor and another sign of God's great love for us, I think, that He wishes us to participate in knowing Him this way, but something we always must do with humility and love ourselves.
Thank you so, so much again, Teric, for always being such an encouraging and supportive friend in Christ and for sharing all your own wonderful insights and reflections with me and your readers.
Many blessings to you!
6) Although this question is not particularly theological in nature, it does have quite a bit of bearing on one of the book’s themes – that of the inherent problem of judging others.On the Soul of a Vampire is written in the first person, narrated by Valéry the vampire, rather than a story written from a third-person omniscient narrator’s perspective. While, on the one hand, this allows the reader to see things through Valéry’s eyes and to have intimate access to his thoughts and feelings, on the other, there is also a difficulty involved with this type of narration, as regards the reader’s perception of the characters, including Valéry himself. While some people have inflated self-esteem, seeing themselves in a better light than others see them, there are also those (due to self-hatred, guilt, the inability to forgive themselves, undermining of their self-esteem by others, and a myriad of other reasons) who actually have very poor self-esteem and/or see themselves as being much worse than they actually are or worse than others see them.
With this is mind, and considering that all of the other characters in the story make mention of their sense of goodness in Valéry as well as recognize both the pain in him and his love for others despite his being a creature who must kill to live, do you, as a reader, think that perhaps the portrait Valéry paints of himself could be misleading? That is, do you think his telling of this story could actually be giving you a false impression of him and making him appear more unlikable or unforgivable than he would otherwise seem?
To give some examples for consideration:
Valéry is appalled that he even considers taking the homeless child as a victim, because for centuries before meeting Angelina, he has kept the vow to his cousin to only take other murderers as victims (even though he believes this is still an evil too). But he does it anyway, despite his self-disgust, forcing Angelina to watch. He says it is simply to show her that her view of him is an illusion and that he is a monster. Since Angelina knows all of his history while the reader does not and she has insisted that he is not a monster or a demon, what other reason, that Valéry might not be admitting to, could be behind him forcing her to watch such a horrific act?
Valéry claims that he torments Michel with sarcasm and crypticness only because he doesn’t want to recognize his own guilt in making Michel a vampire. Considering how often he professes to love Michel, that he says Michel is his greatest sin and that Michel admits he’s always loved Valéry, even says that Valery has been "the only one to give him hope there was more good in him, more purpose to his existence than he’s ever been able to see there himself," does it seem plausible that Valéry really is sarcastic and cryptic with Michel for the reason he claims he is, or do you think there might be another reason – that he might actually have a good intention in this that he can’t admit to himself? If so, what do you think his real reason might be?
There are a number of other instances in the story where what Valéry says about himself or where acts he commits could be seen in more than one light, depending on the motive behind them. Are there any that struck you, the reader, as particularly strange or inconsistent when considering what Angelina and other characters say about Valéry? Do you think it’s possible, if these instances are considered in a different light, that Valéry’s opinion of himself might actually be causing a reader to misjudge him?
Toni wrote: "As long as you keep writing Teric, I will keep reading. Keep bleeding the pen, my friend!"Thank you, Toni! I'm so happy for you and your new job, but I miss seeing you 'round!"
Krisi wrote: "6) Although this question is not particularly theological in nature, it does have quite a bit of bearing on one of the book’s themes – that of the inherent problem of judging others.On the Sou..."
Everybody is a story in and of themselves. There might be someone who seemingly has the worst attitude in the world, and we might think they are simply a horrible person. But, maybe if we were given the ability to dig deeper, we would discover that some people have been terribly hurt in life, and are in a great deal of emotional, mental, spiritual, or possibly even physical anguish- thus the reasoning for their action(s)/attitude.
The Almighty sees, and He has gone to great lengths to draw all of mankind to Himself. He can and will help/heal those who place their confidence (faith) in Him.
"God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble." Psalm 46:1
"He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds." Psalm 147:3
Teric wrote: "Toni wrote: "As long as you keep writing Teric, I will keep reading. Keep bleeding the pen, my friend!"Thank you, Toni! I'm so happy for you and your new job, but I miss seeing you 'round!""
I miss each and everyone of you but I thank God for His provision and my wonderful friends!
Hi everyone,I hope you all had a beautiful and blessed Easter and Passover!
I'm going to leave one last question for the discussion. For me, at least, this is one of the simplest and most complex to ponder.
On the Soul of a Vampire opens with a quote by C.K. Chesterton:
"Love means to love that which is unlovable, or it is no virtue at all; forgiving means to pardon that which is unpardonable, or it is no virtue at all."
What does this quote mean to you personally, what are some of the ways this sentiment is echoed or shown in the story and can you think of some of the Gospel passages on which Chesterton based this idea?
Thank you so much to everyone who is following the discussion. I'll be back in a few days to post some closing thoughts. :-D
Krisi wrote: "Hi everyone,I hope you all had a beautiful and blessed Easter and Passover!
I'm going to leave one last question for the discussion. For me, at least, this is one of the simplest and most c..."
The quote reminds me of the scripture: But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, 'Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?' Jesus answered them, 'It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance' (Luke 5:30-32, NIV).
Hi Toni,Yes, that is a good example. I think Jesus' words there, as well as on so many other occasions in Scripture, show how God loves us in our very human weakness and forgives not simply those sins we often think of as "justifiable," but the ones that have no justification at all, and when this is read with His directive to "be pefect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," He is asking us to love one another in just the same way. Jesus died for us while we were in sin and the perfection He refers to, I think, is that more than anything else - that we don't just love those that make themselves easy to love or forgive sins that are easy to understand and forgive; but that the real examples of love and forgiveness are when we love others even as they are acting in a way that makes it extremely difficult to love them and still forgive others when the offense is the most unjustifiable and painful thing to forgive.
Chesterton's quote also reminds me of the disciples asking the Lord how many times one is supposed to forgive one's neighbor and His answer: "Not seven times, but seventy times seven times," (Matthew 18:22) meaning every time, and His telling us to to love our enemies, turn the other cheek and give our cloak to those who take our tunic, "for if you love those that love you, what reward shall you have?" (Matthew 5:38-48)
Thanks so much for the comment, Toni!
I wanted to leave a last thank you to Trish and the Contemporary Christian Fiction group for giving me the opportunity to share a little about On the Soul of a Vampire, and to thank everyone who has participated in and followed the discussion. I appreciate it so much!On the Soul is a speculative fiction story simply meant to offer a, hopefully, interesting and entertaining way to contemplate different theological ideas about God's love, forgiveness and the directive that we "judge not, lest we be judged." It's book one in an ongoing story that has a lot more surprises and is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, as regards the mystery of how God can bring light out of darkness and the depth of His workings in each human being's path of salvation. There are times in this first story and in the upcoming ones where it may seem like an answer has been discovered, when in fact, it might only be the cloudy perception of one human being who is still seeing through the glass darkly - just as, I confirm, its author is still doing! My hope is that readers enjoy it and that it may inspire more reflection on certain topics, but above all that it points them toward the Book with the real answers and toward greater love and awe of the ultimate Author.
Thank you so much again, everyone, and many blessings to all!
Krisi
Thank YOU, Krisi, for sharing with us. One of the main things I enjoyed about your book is that it explores those Holy mysteries of The Almighty. We DO see through the glass darkly now and, one Day, we will all see face to face and know as we are fully known."Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Corinthians 13:12
Concerning our discussing the Chesterton quote, a few years back, I really struggled hard to forgive someone whom I felt dealt with me harshly. It was a real battle for me. Then, one day, in my daily Bible reading, I came upon this verse:
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:2
That verse really hit home with me. Am I to be forgiven for all of my heinous, sinful, unholy crimes and, in turn, exercise no forgiveness of my own? The Lord forgave me, didn't He, when He paid the Ultimate price that only He could pay, and then said, "It is finished!"
The bottom line: I had to forgive this person who "sinned" against me. After all, is that not part of the Lord's model prayer:
"'Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.'" -Luke 11:4
When I finally put the above two and two together, it became a bit easier for me to exercise forgiveness- in considering my own sins that I have been pardoned from.
Of course, forgiveness and not "judging" is a separate issue from using discretion and discernment. We are certainly to exercise that in our life choices through various circumstances.
I feel that your book explores the Holy unknown, Krisi, and I applaud that, as through your exploration, you utilize the tool of UTMOST importance: You base your exploration on Scripture.
By nature, most of us, as finite beings in this body, this life, are afraid to explore the unknown.
To me, your story tells the tale of one's journey- Valery- who begins in utter darkness and progresses on the path to the Light.
And isn't that the tale of all of us, as Christians: wallowing in our filth of sin until we answer THAT Call?
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Contemporary Christian Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
U-Turn Killur (other topics)The Judging (other topics)
Rabbit: Chasing Beth Rider (other topics)
Just kidding, of course.
Hang in there girl. :) :) :)