Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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True enough. I was thinking cop show for sure.
Josh wrote: "Dear Leader has been informed. He said he never would have guessed that fandom in a million years so it's clearly irrelevant. :D True enough. I was thinking cop show for sure."
I well remember when the stories were posted originally. With one of them, every Thursday at the same time on the dot the next chapter was up and everybody positively raced to LJ to read it.
Liade wrote: "Josh wrote: "Dear Leader has been informed. He said he never would have guessed that fandom in a million years so it's clearly irrelevant. :D True enough. I was thinking cop show for sure."
..."
Don't tell me it was Harry Potter???
Cleon wrote: "Don't tell me it was Harry Potter???..."NO!!
Are we not allowed to say which fandom? I didn't think it was a secret. I think a GR review of one of the books even mentions it, and I know for sure that a Dear Author review states it quite clearly.
Cheryl wrote: "Are we not allowed to say which fandom? I didn't think it was a secret. I think a GR review of one of the books even mentions it, and I know for sure that a Dear Author review states it quite clearly."Personally, if I were participating in a discussion about two works, I would find it a distraction to know they both came from a specific fandom. That's why I didn't name it here, in case anyone else felt the same way.
Lou wrote: "I don't know if I want to know or not. For one thing, it might be interesting to see if how much resemblance they bear to the original, on the other hand it might get distracting."There are a number of group members who would tell you via PM if you asked, myself included, but I would very much prefer to leave it up to individuals whether they'd like to know, rather than broadcast it all over the thread. There's no doubt it would influence any future discussion, rightly or wrongly.
Liade wrote: "I would very much prefer to leave it up to individuals whether they'd like to know, rather than broadcast it all over the thread."I'm unplugging my ears and taking a break from the "la, la, la" mantra long enough to suggest that if we reveal this, we wait until the January discussion.
John wrote: "Liade wrote: "I would very much prefer to leave it up to individuals whether they'd like to know, rather than broadcast it all over the thread."I'm unplugging my ears and taking a break from the ..."
As I said, I don't think it should be "revealed" at all. Anybody who wants to find out can do so easily enough.
I think any discussion will be better without being coloured by a back story which has little to nothing-at-all to do with either of the books.
Edited to add: this is just my very own personal opinion, of course.
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At the same time, I don't think there's any shame in starting life as a work of fan fiction provided the end result is far enough removed from canon.
In fact, it's worrying to me that some writers are so ashamed of their fandom antecedents that they want to pretend they don't exist.
M/M fiction is rooted in slash and fandom. There is no way around that. Gay romance is rooted in the gay pulps. The two are now inextricably entwined, but they did not spring from the same source. There is no reason they should have or that one is "better" than the other.
**Edited to add: let's just evaulate the stories as is. Anyone dying to know the fandom can ask off list or go check out Dear Author. At the end of the discussion we can consider whether the fan fiction antecdents were relevant or not. How's that sound?**
Josh wrote: "At the same time, I don't think there's any shame in starting life as a work of fan fiction provided the end result is far enough removed from canon.In fact, it's worrying to me that some writers are so ashamed of their fandom antecedents that they want to pretend they don't exist.
M/M fiction is rooted in slash and fandom. There is no way around that. Gay romance is rooted in the gay pulps. The two are now inextricably entwined, but they did not spring from the same source. There is no reason they should have or that one is "better" than the other. "
May I quote you on this Josh? Incidentally, our blog (Chicksndicks) is focusing on fanfiction this month, and one of the things we're going to talk about is writing original fiction vs fanfic, and turning fanfic into an original fic.
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..."
Sure, Cleon -- though I can't claim to be the first or only person to have noticed and commented on this.
It sounds like it's going to be a really interesting and informative month at Chicksndicks.
Josh wrote: "Cleon wrote: "May I quote you on this Josh? Incidentally, our blog (Chicksndicks) is focusing on fanfiction this month, and one of the things we're going to talk about is writing original fiction v..."Thanks a lot, Josh. We also have a DSP editor as a guest blogger, so it'll be an awesome month for sure!
And we also have recs. ;)
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But choosing to turn fanfic into original work is not easy. You have to be very selective.
I read The Assignment and at first thought it was just "ok". But once it was mentioned the origins of the story was fanfic, the flaws suddenly made sense to me. I still don't know what fandom it came from, but it's pretty obvious that it wasn't original to start with, viewing that she's written better work than that, in my personal opinion.
so, yeah, it can be done, but it's gotta be done carefully.
Jordan wrote: "I read The Assignment and at first thought it was just "ok". "I just read the description of The Assignment. Yet another pairing in which the blond half is repressed/closeted/intense/uptight/shy and the dark-haired character is the opposite. That was the dynamic in the fandom Shades and Zero sprang from. I've seen this couple in all types of literature and in films. I wonder where this originated.
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I just read the description of The Assignment. Yet another pairing in which the blond half is repressed/closeted/inten..."
I think it's the other way around in The Assignment, isn't it? The blond is the sexually adventurous and the dark haired guy is the more repressed.
And, unless I'm very much mistaken, it's from the same fandom as Larton.
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No. Er, well kind of! The Professionals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prof...
As an anglophile, you ought to know this one, Lou!
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As an anglophile, you ought to know this one, Lou! "
I never saw that one. :( However,..."
Oh! You must treat yourself to the marvellous insanity that is Pros! :-D It's unique.
Lou wrote: "Josh wrote: "No. Er, well kind of! The Professionals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prof...As an anglophile, you ought to know this one, Lou! "
I never saw that one. :( However,..."
I remember the Persuaders (both Tony Curtis and Roger Moore are very popular in Italy, I think I saw the series in the late 70s-early 80s), but I can't recall The Professionals, even if I recognize the actors.
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I know, I've written lots of AU in my time. It's fun to play around with characters and take them out of their usual role that people see them in every week.
In my fandom, CSI, the darker haired character (Nick) was always the one in the closet, while the lighter haired man (Greg) was usually out and proud. So, I'd say it can go either way.
New to this group. When does the discussion start on January's reads? It's Zero and Shades, right?
palmer wrote: "New to this group. When does the discussion start on January's reads? It's Zero and Shades, right?"Hi, palmer! Welcome! Yeah, we're discussing Zero and Shades this month. The discussion is usually officially scheduled for a weekend at the end of the month so that everyone has time to read it. A thread will probably go up sometime soon. Since we're pretty bad about things like rules (and keeping on topic-- geeze louise, I don't think we could do that to save our souls), it's not unusual for there to be some early chat.
Becky wrote: "palmer wrote: "New to this group. When does the discussion start on January's reads? It's Zero and Shades, right?"Hi, palmer! Welcome! Yeah, we're discussing Zero and Shades this month. The d..."
Super. Just didn't want to discover next month that there was a top secret board I was missing out on. I'm good with following the meandering threads for a few more weeks.
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Kim wrote: "I just read the description of The Assignment. Yet another pairing in which the blond half is repressed/closeted/intense/uptight/shy and the dark-haired character is the opposite. That was the dynamic in the fandom Shades and Zero sprang from. I've seen this couple in all types of literature and in films. I wonder where this originated."Dear Kim, to compare The Assignement with Zero and Shades is pure blasphemy! ;-)
Apart from the general flaws, at some stages The Assignement looks even slightly homophobic to me. I've noticed just now that I haven't written a review yet, although I gave the book 2 stars since a while. I'll write it...
For the rest: I proposed Shades of Gray and then Lou suggested a parallel read of Zero at the Bone. I suspected she wasn't aware of the connection and I didn't think it was relevant to mention it. I was also aware that the cat was out of the bag for Zero at the Bone, but not for Shades, as far as I know.
BTW it is Zero at the Bone: the author used to get mad when people misspelled it ;-).
I'm looking forward to reread for the umpteenth time two of the most beautiful and gripping m/m books I've ever read.
I received an Amazon gift card at Christmas and I just spent an hour dithering about which books to get. I ended up getting 3 coz I wanted to use that last $1.03 (which cost me almost $6.00 to do).As soon as I'd bought them I realized I hadn't bought Shades of Gray yet. *smacks forehead*
Pender wrote: "I received an Amazon gift card at Christmas and I just spent an hour dithering about which books to get. I ended up getting 3 coz I wanted to use that last $1.03 (which cost me almost $6.00 to do)...."Bummer! I do goofy stuff like that all the time. If it makes you feel any better, fictionwise has Shades of Gray, and if they follow their usual pattern, there should be a new discount code next morning.
Becky wrote: "Bummer! I do goofy stuff like that all the time. If it makes you feel any better, Fictionwise has Shades of Gray, and if they follow their usual pattern, there should be a new discount code next morning."Thanks Becky, but I just went back and bought it at Amazon so I can start reading tonight. (I've already read Zero at the Bone). I wanted the other books anyway so really it wasn't much of a hardship. :)
Ok, I'll start this off with something TOTALLY different. Have you all read anything byKyell Gold?He write Anthropomorphic(sp?) gay fiction!
I've read his football stories, but they're long and specific. He has a collection of shorts on Amazon for free, He also has a coming-of-age he is known forWaterways and historicals.
His work is only available from Amazon and B&N in ebook. The illustrations are only in the Paperback versions.
Anyway, this has been fun. I am looking forward to whatever You all choose! 8)
Reggie wrote: "Ok, I'll start this off with something TOTALLY different. Have you all read anything byKyell Gold?He write Anthropomorphic(sp?) gay fiction!"
and the sequel
are awesome, even for people not into furry fiction or football like me.Here my review for the first one, but it applies also to the sequel: ''This is an amazing book: excellent writing, compelling characters, gripping plot, a believable relationship development. I'd give more than 5 stars if I could.''
ETA: On amazon there is a short stories collection for free, ''Gold Standard'': http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Standard-e...
It contains the beginning of the coming of age story Reggie mentioned above
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Two Hearts Two Spirits
Ransom
"Two Hearts" was recc'd by Tj over at Wave'shttp://www.reviewsbyjessewave.com/201....
It was a good read. It is a unique read in that it is like an American Indian folk -lore story. Might be fun for the not-USA history readers.
Another story on the same lines, but more gritty is
Two Spirits: A Story of Life With the Navajo. Here is the rec for this one
http://www.reviewsbyjessewave.com/201...
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lol, I'd like to say, skip Ransom and let's go with some Native Americans. I've always been interested in their stories, and the fact that they can be so open and accepting of people who don't follow traditional gender roles.
Both of those books look fascinating! I can't decide between them!
Reggie wrote: "Another story on the same lines, but more gritty is Two Spirits: A Story of Life With the Navajo."
I would be in favor ot this, on the ground that I've got it and I still have to read it ;-).
Talking about Native Americans and gritty, I throw in the mix also:
The Man Who Fell in Love with the Moon
You can read quite big chunks of it here and a review from the NYT here
Antonella wrote: "Reggie wrote: "Another story on the same lines, but more gritty is Two Spirits: A Story of Life With the Navajo."
I would be in favor ot this, on the ground that I've got it and I still have to r..."
I read "the man who fell in love with the moon" many years ago and absolutely loved it. Definitely a recommended read. I can also recommend Now Is the Hour by the same author which is a more traditional coming of age story than the first.
Btw, as a non-American I would love to read a book with some Native American lore thrown in.
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Is anyone talking about this book?
Josh wrote: "This is what I want to read -- it's had brilliant reviews pretty much everywhere but the author is outside of the m/m community, although I read in a PW article that she did read a lot of fan ficti..."I did check it out, it looks like an interesting and probably sweet story.I am a fan of coming of age books, a genre I feel Americans do especially well for some reason. (Just a feeling, I can't document it in any way) A lot of very good reviews.
A coming of age story has universal appeal. It might be better for our crossing borders group here. I know nothing about this book/author but I'm game. I'm going to be busy in that outer galaxy myself so I'll check back in after awhile and see what you all come up with. Take care and enjoy the moments!
Don't Let Me Go sounds interesting, and the publisher is giving away a copy through GR. You can enter from the book's GR page.I'd be interesting in doing Waterways, too. That one's already on my Kindle. :)
Reggie wrote: "A coming of age story has universal appeal. It might be better for our crossing borders group here. I know nothing about this book/author but I'm game. I'm going to be busy in that outer galaxy mys..."Sooner or later I will probably read all the books suggested here that I find interesting (which is most) regardless of they being next month's challenge or not. The recommendations from this group are almost always exellent. I am so happy I found this :) I am always searching for new books and new writers and my local bookstores are getting gradually less and less interesting since they all seem to be obsessed with profit and not the joy of reading, so they all carry the same bestsellers and "safe" authors. There is one good sci-fi and fantasy book store that seems to be run by idealist, and one independent bookstore that is always on the brink of bankruptcy that specialize in books from the edges, but they have a small stock at all times. So I thank all good powers for the internet, my Kindle and you guys.
And I am aware of the fact that the Kindle and similar e-books are part of the problem for the small, independent bookstores, it is a dilemma of sorts.
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It is. But I've reluctantly concluded that it's like the invention of the cotton gin or maybe just the pollution that spills out of the valley steam plant. There are some things you can fight, and at least delay even if you can't stop them. But in general technological advances cannot be halted. There was a long, long, LONG period when ebooks were not at all viable for most readers. Probably a good decade when ebooks were out there but very few people read them. That was the ten minute warning bell for booksellers and publishers.
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Josh wrote: "This is what I want to read -- it's had brilliant reviews pretty much everywhere but the author is outside of the m/m community"Ehmm... I bought it. It does sound good.
As Anne says: "Sooner or later I will probably read all the books suggested here that I find interesting (which is most)". That's why this thread is deadly ;-).
Becky wrote: " I'd be interesting in doing Waterways too"
Me too, I've read it yesterday ;-). I had read the beginning in the free anthology, I liked it a lot and I decided to buy it. BTW in the free anthology are also extensive bits of Isolation Play and Out of Position.
Josh wrote: "I'm kind of leaning toward reading something maybe a little different, a little more literary than past months. Just to break it up."
I don't know that this would be considered literary, but for something different, I recommend Ben Monopoli's The Cranberry Hush. If not for February, then maybe another month.
I don't know that this would be considered literary, but for something different, I recommend Ben Monopoli's The Cranberry Hush. If not for February, then maybe another month.
Josh wrote: "And I am aware of the fact that the Kindle and similar e-books are part of the problem for the small, independent bookstores, it is a dilemma of sorts.It is. But I've reluctantly concluded that i..."
I do agree, but for my own selfish reasons I would have liked the best of both worlds, my Kindle so I can read all the stories I can't find at home in the stores, and the stores to browse in and enjoy when it suits me. :)
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Josh wrote: "I'm kind of leaning toward reading something maybe a little different, a little more literary than past months. Just to break it up."Sounds good to me. I'd love to tackle something a little more…challenging (though perhaps that's not the right word). I think I'd get more out the experience if I read something more literary as a group read. Do you have anything particular in mind?
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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Dear Leader has been informed. He said he never would have guessed that fandom in a million years so it's clearly irrelevant. :D