What's so bad about being a Twilight Fanatic?

[Jesla]

nothing

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Yes, on the one hand it is light and fluffy. But after having read the entire series, I was pretty disturbed by what it seemed to be saying to its teen girl readership; that it's okay not to have goals and/or to have a boy stalk you because its LOOOOOVE and said stalker boy is soooo cute. I'm far too used to my heroines who do things rather than allow things to happen to them. I think that Meyer was trying to write that classic gothic hero who broods and needs the love of a good woman to complete him, but it just didn't work. The only thing I can say in Bella's defense is that there was no possible way she could learn about healthy relationships because her parents were divorced and she was forced at an early age to take on the role of an adult to both her mom and dad.

Even when I read the light and fluffy, I'm always thinking critically. Blame all my awesome literature teachers, LOL.

[Kogiopsis]

Kristen wrote: "Well, no, the forbidden element was mainly for the first book. The big triumph is after Edward doesn't kill her at the end, so it's pretty consistent.
The other books are just a continuation of what was already established, although it's still somewhat 'forbidden' because Edward realizes after Jasper tries to attack her ..."

Ah, but Edward overcame his desire to kill her by the meadow chapter- what was it titled, 'Mind Over Matter'? You know the scene, I'm sure, where they kiss by the truck. So at that point it was a given that he wasn't going to kill her, at least to me. The time between that scene and the finale just gave him more 'immunity' to the scent of her blood- so again, no tension.
(Tossing out an idea here: I would have found it interesting if Edward had killed her inadvertently and had to spend the next few books sorting it all out. Could have been an interesting character study; but Bella's the first-person narrator, so that wouldn't happen.)
Oh, that's another reason why she could never die in the end. First person narrators have to be telling their story to someone, right? And if they die, there's no one for them to tell that story to. So they always have to live. (This is also what ruined the ending of the movie Australia for me.)
She was safe in his world for three books, Volturi aside. And again, it would have been more interesting to me personally if they'd been the ones to turn her, in no small part because the Volturi interested me most of all the vampires.

If you really enjoyed them, you'll probably like them again. Speaking from re-reading experience, the ones you feel you want to re-read are the same ones that don't suffer from the exercise. Now, the movies are another thing... that first one. Ugh. I saw it when I still liked the books and was just insulted at how badly they screwed up.

[Kristen]

Anila wrote: "Ah, but Edward overcame his desire to kill her by the meadow chapter- what was it titled, 'Mind Over Matter'?..."

Actually, he doesn't fully overcome that until after he thought she was dead in New Moon - in Eclipse he said something like that's what completely cured him since that was such torture for him.
He still struggled at parts - particularly in the Ballet studio when he was sucking out the venom and when he had to leave the house in NM after Jasper tried to kill her and Carlisle was fixing her up.
Whenever she bled basically. He just had more self control after the part you were talking about - he said that was like his test, to make sure he wouldn't just accidentally kill her. And he passed. He wasn't cured.

"Tossing out an idea here: I would have found it interesting if Edward had killed her..."
Lol, yeah, thats generally how I know the hero/heroine isn't going to die. But she did switch to Jacob's POV(which I thought was boring). She could have killed her off. But I don't think it would have been well received by most.

I agree, I thought the Volturi were going to play a much bigger part in her being changed. The last book was WAY off from what I thought was coming.

yeah, I think I'll still enjoy them, but I'm wondering if it'll be as much. I think all the hype has sort of turned me off. At least some.

OH my! the first movie was...well, i don't want to say it was crap, since I know some people love it. Just in comparison with the book, it was. But that's b/c they left out so much vital stuff from the actual story - like the entire part where they actually fell in love. It just sort of happened over night after they hated each other. In the book it was over a month or something...
But I won't get into all the discrepancies in the movie. Too many, lol

[Kristen]

Vixenne wrote: "Yes, on the one hand it is light and fluffy. But after having read the entire series, I was pretty disturbed by what it seemed to be saying to its teen girl readership; that it's okay not to have ..."

Well, I generally try to put that stuff in context. No other teenage girl is going to be able to say her boyfriend is a vampire and her Plan A is to become one too, like Bella's was. So, no I don't think it says it's ok not to have goals.

And all the other stuff about their behavior being ok b/c he was super hot - she realized she was wrong at the beginning. She just didn't care. And there were consequences.
There was a happy ending, of course, but if you're gonna look for the exact morals in every 'light fluffy story' out there, I'd think things like The Little Mermaid sends a bad message too. She completely rebelled, disregarding her family and everyone else and basically sells her soul, and everything was peachy at the end - that's why my mom didn't like it when I was a kid, lol.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Putting on my lit snob hat *wink*, faerie tales such as The Little Mermaid were as much cautionary tales as they were entertaining. Not to mention, there was no happy ending, unlike Twilight. One could say that Hans Christian Anderson was indeed making a statement.

If you read the original Grimm's Faerie Tales as well as the stories those were based upon, bad things tended happen to the main characters. A thirteenth-century version of Little Red Riding Hood has her being eaten by the wolf. Back then, few people were literate and there needed to be a way to impart life lessons to children (and adults), hence faerie tales.

And I'm not talking about the saccharine Disney (face-palm) versions either, LOL.

I take it that you're an adult. You have the discernment from experience to take a book like Twilight at sheer entertainment value--for good or ill. However, when I'm hearing teenaged girls gush effusive that they just dumped their boyfriends because he wasn't "Edward" or "Jacob" enough, that makes me raise an eyebrow.

Again, if you loved the books, I'm good with that. I read them and disliked them, especially that last slapdash effort called Breaking Dawn. That's the beauty of life, we're allowed to have differences of opinion and I hope that people could be civil about it, but some Twilight fans just go freaking overboard.

[Kristen]

Vixenne wrote: "Putting on my lit snob hat *wink*, faerie tales such as The Little Mermaid were as much cautionary tales as they were entertaining. Not to mention, there was no happy ending, unlike Twilight. One..."

lol Ok, yes, I was talking about the Disney version. I know the real stories are not quite as cheery. I just meant, as far as what kids are reading/watching. Not many parents actually read the real stories to their kids anymore.

Oh, I agree! I think the crazy Twilight girls who think Edward is the standard for their real boyfriends are insane. lol
Jacob's a bit more realistic.

[Ashlee]

I haven't really kept up with the discussion lately, so what's going on now?! haha.
And thanks to those who replied to me, I appreciate the responses.

[Lindis]

Vixenne wrote: "Putting on my lit snob hat *wink*, faerie tales such as The Little Mermaid were as much cautionary tales as they were entertaining. Not to mention, there was no happy ending, unlike Twilight. One..."

Just like Lord of the Rings people go over board, Just like Harry Potter people, or TV shows, X-Files people, Spongebob Squarepants. Or rock groups! People go crazy over several things in the media these days. People from the ages of 5 to 50 or older!

While I agree that it's not healthy to make, whatever you're obsessed with, your intire life. And even a percentage of those people grow out of it eventually. Then look back and say to themselves. "Wow! I can't believe that I did that!"

All I'm saying is that I think it's good to have a healthy fantasy life. What's so bad about pretending every once in a while? No matter what your age? I think that most adults have forgotten how to pretend, like a child, and the world would be a better place if every now and then, more adults would pretend that they were someone else, just for a few hours.

It seems to me that people are really hard on Twilight fans. I just wanna know why. What's wrong with it?

[CF]

I will tell you why us, the middle generation (aka anyone over 20 but UNDER 45 as I am positive that Twi-mums exsist, as my mum is one of them, I have even seen Twi-grandmas) are hard on Twilight Fanatics.

1. A lot of them haven't read any other fantasy and think it's like, the best book of all time. It's not, Anne Rice, Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, etc, all had fantastic fantasy before 'young adult' was even a sub-genre of books.

2. It's not really very well written, It's definitely NOT the 'worst book of all time' so don't take me saying this, as something else, as I have definitely read worse books. By the end of the 4 books I was so sick of Edwards 'defined jawline' and other ridiculous worshipful words she used to describe Edward and Jacob.

3. Stephenie Meyer is a mormon. This plunged my respect for her a lot less then I had before I found out. It's not hard to be fantasy writers for mormons, they are spoon-fed fantasy from birth.

4. Peoples pure OBSESSION. I have no problem with simple 'fans' of Twilight, but I have a problem with people who are OBSESSED with it. It does not deserve this obsession.

5. If the people who read these books read more fantasy/sci-fi/horror books, they would very, very soon see that it is nowhere near the top of the list for this genre.

6. This new book PROMOTING young girls to find men like Edward and Jacob. WHY. These men are abusive (albeit accidentelly because they are vampires/werewolves, I get that, but it's still not a good thing) - and SINCE WHEN did teenagers need love guides?!! Ridiculous! If anything, there should be a 'stop discriminating against nerds and stop dating bad boys, because they will betray you eventually, date a nerd! they are awesome' book.

This is my OPINION. I don't mind if you disagree with it. But keep the flaming down, please.

Let the controversy of this post begin!

[CF]

^ Oh my god. That's so bad. >< I've seen loads of dudes with Justin Bieber haircuts as well. Not good! When I was a teen I liked Brad Pitt and Ewan McGregor! Real men!

[[deleted user]]

Claire wrote: "3. Stephenie Meyer is a mormon. This plunged my respect for her a lot less then I had before I found out. It's not hard to be fantasy writers for mormons, they are spoon-fed fantasy from birth."

Anyone who bought one of these steaming piles of shit also donated a nice chunk to the Mormon church. All followers must give 10% of their earnings to the church, this is one of their laws. And SM is an out spoken loyal Church member.

So thanks Twilight fans, for furthering a rancid cult of racist, sexists.

[Lura (The Life of Serendipity)]

You know I think there's nothing wrong with beginning a fan of Twilight, but there should be a barrier from Twilight Fan to crazy fan who can't stop talking about it, or bringing it up...!

[CF]

Paul wrote: "Claire wrote: "3. Stephenie Meyer is a mormon. This plunged my respect for her a lot less then I had before I found out. It's not hard to be fantasy writers for mormons, they are spoon-fed fantasy ..."

Excellently spoken. Absolutely brilliant and I completely agree.

[CF]

He doesn't mean the book or even Stephenie Meyer herself (although she IS a member of the church so she would know the rules), he means Mormonism itself, it is inherintly sexist and racist.

[Lura (The Life of Serendipity)]

Palice wrote: "@Paul -- That seems a little harsh. While I do think there are some Mormon messages in Twilight, I don't think we have the right to label people like that.
Sorry."

I agree that does seem a little harsh... How can you say all this stuff about someone you've never met, nor knowing anything about them. So you hear that SM is a mormon, so what does that give you the right to judge her because of it???

[CF]

I don't think they are either, but it's the same in every church. All religions think they are tolerant and open-armed to everyone, but really the only ones that are even close are Buddhism and Shinto.

[Lura (The Life of Serendipity)]

Palice wrote: "I was going to say, I know some Mormon people, and really, I haven't heard anything racist or sexist from them. I thought he meant Mormon people in general were all sexist and racist."

Oh as if stating a stereotype...? Saying that all Mormon are sexist and racist. Man I hate when people do that freakin crap...!

[Ashlee]

Claire wrote: "I will tell you why us, the middle generation (aka anyone over 20 but UNDER 45 as I am positive that Twi-mums exsist, as my mum is one of them, I have even seen Twi-grandmas) are hard on Twilight F..."

You do realize all of this is your opinion, right? Whether or not you like the book, some people do. How do you figure Stephanie is a moron? she's a NY times best selling author, so I'm pretty sure that means she has a lot of fans, support, and a general like of her books. She also wrote more than just Twilight. For you to say she's a moron, totally uncalled for. She's an author, she has deadlines, she had to find someone who would publish her book, before it could even blow up to all this. I mean, go ahead and critique a book, but to call the Author a moron? well that is completely disrespectful. Anyone who follows their dreams, makes it to the NY times best selling list, doesn't deserve to be called that.(It's not just because of this Author that I'm saying that, either...I respect every Author for the amount of stress and hate they endur) there have been books I haven't cared for, but I express my dislike in a tasteful way.

I am a fan of Twilight, yes. I own all 4 books, and I've seen all the movies to date. Am I obsessed? no! I know the line between unhealthy obsession, and general like of a book. I think this whole conversation has blown into a "My opinion is better than yours" fight. If you don't like the book, don't read it, critique what you don't like, whatever. But to sit here and insult one another because someones opinion is different than yours is totally childish.

[CF]

^ I said MORMON, and I also said 'THIS IS ALL AN OPINION' at the end. So, the fact you didn't read that shows.

[Ashlee]

Well then I apologize for misreading your post. But my response wasn't only aimed at you, it's been a few other people who are just making this out to me a big argument, when it was supposed to be a mature discussion. (and to be honest, a lot of other people have called Stephanie a moron in so many words, so the response can stick for them).

[Ashlee]

Palice- I misread the post, thought she wrote "Moron" lol. That's why I was defending her. That one was my bad. But the rest of the post does stick for other people who are making this out to be a big argument.

[Ashlee]

The way I see it is this: While I don't think it is healthy to be overly obsessed with a book, I think that someone who wants to get lost in a good fantasy, is a lot better than someone being addicted to drugs, or anything illegal. I say do what makes you happy! I know a girl who made a Facebook profile for her stuffed cat, because she loves it so much. Is it odd and probably a little unhealthy that she's talkin to herself? yea! but it's better than going out and doing harm to others.

[Ashlee]

Yea, and I get that. If someone were going around biting people, actually thinking they were a vampire...well then, I'd suggest them seeking help, quick. But if someone just loves the series and wishes it was real, and does role-playing with their friends, and it's not harming anyone, let them live! It's not different than Anime conventions, or video games fanatics who like to role-play or portray characters who they like. I mean, who are we to squash their fun? "Twihards" get offended really easily, but to them it's something they really love, it's something they care about, and they'll defend it. I do the same thing when I feel strongly about a book, an Author, etc. I defend it. I think everyone gets defensive over things they care about/love, not just "Twihards". It's just because this series has been blown up and overrated, which is why Twilight lovers are so targeted and made fun of. My sons name is Jacob Edward (totally unrelated to Twilight though! I picked Jacob, my Fiance picked Edward) and my fiances ex girlfriend actually asked me if my stomache sparkled when I went outside. I was like "C'mon, really?" I just think this is another series thats been blown up by the media, and thats why it sparks fights and disagreements so often. Had this series stayed a book, and nothing more, than I doubt it would be as big as it is today. There probably wouldn't be "Team Edward" "Team Jacob" feud going on, or anything of that junk.

It's like I said, I loved the books, I'm not obsessed though. I liked them enough to start to re-read them, but after re-reading New Moon, I thought to myself "Okay, well....I should just move on to something new" the more you read the book, the more faults you notice (especially after someone points them out) and I didn't want to ruin my overall like of the book. And yea, it was totally just a misreading on my part, I wouldn't talk about Religion on here, I'm not out to offend anyones views in their beliefs, and it's too sore of a subject, I wouldn't go there, haha.

[Ashlee]

Yea, that does make sense. I wouldn't like being told that I "didn't understand" I'm all for hearing everyones perspectives on the books, but to hear "Twilight is gay because Vampire Sparkle..." is not a valid reason to dislike the book, you know? I ask questions when I don't understand something in a book I read, or I'll agree with others if I realize I'm wrong. I guess it all depends on how mature the person arguing is.

[Jesla]

it is a good book

[Jesla]

thiers nothing bad about it

[Jesla]

i ment theirs cant spell well today

[Lindis]

Ashlee wrote: "Yea, that does make sense. I wouldn't like being told that I "didn't understand" I'm all for hearing everyones perspectives on the books, but to hear "Twilight is gay because Vampire Sparkle..." is..."

Well Said. Usually I won't even discuss it with someone who hasen't read the books. Sometimes, I have to just agree to disagree with people. : )

[Kristen]

Paul wrote: "Claire wrote: "3. Stephenie Meyer is a mormon. This plunged my respect for her a lot less then I had before I found out. It's not hard to be fantasy writers for mormons, they are spoon-fed fantasy ..."

Wow! That just sounds plain hateful.
Granted, I am not a Mormon, nor do I agree with the religion. Quite the opposite actually. I think it's a cult and pretty twisted when you get the extremist believers.
I can't say for certain what Meyer does or does not believe. But I think it's safe to say she is not one of the extremists since something like Twilight would most likely not be 'Kosher' in the extremist sects.

But to take such an extreme view of how "buying a Twilight book is the same as supporting the Mormon church", while that may be true, is pretty unfair, unless you apply that to every single author, singer, songwriter, actor, etc.
Personally I'd rather support the Mormon church indirectly than some of the other things that certain individuals in such positions support. At least they sort of have standards...
Can you honestly say you take this approach to every single author you read? If not, it's just discrimination based on your dislike for Twilight or Meyer. And comes across as pretty ignorant.

[[deleted user]]

"Personally I'd rather support the Mormon church indirectly than some of the other things that certain individuals in such positions support. At least they sort of have standards..."

Really, Kristin?

So you would a support a belief system that claims blacks are going to hell because god cursed them with dark skin?

It also says in their book if women were ever to be in charge of anything, then they would destroy the world... why don;t you educate yourself out side of YA fiction before you try to criticize others?

The book of Mormon refers to Jews as "evil" and it condones sex and marriage with very young girls.... oh, and everything that isn't Mormon is "of the devil". It really is a lovely read, I suggest you read it to see who you've been giving your money too.

[H.J.]

WOW! Have to say like her or not the extremes of views on this page alone shows she brings up so many questions.

Writing is such a personal experience and if we didn't like different things the world of books would be very boring indeed.

I enjoyed the books and I found Host very interesting, the films were terrible and the music okay.

Didn't know about her belief's but if you start down that road, every religion has some major problems, no exception!

[CF]

Paul wrote: ""Personally I'd rather support the Mormon church indirectly than some of the other things that certain individuals in such positions support. At least they sort of have standards..."

Really, Krist..."

Thanks Paul. I agree with you here.

[[deleted user]]

People don't like Twilight fans because they're usually teenagers that will be inheriting the challenges of the modern world. And the fact that the best they would be able to come up with is whether to be on team Cullen or Team Jacob just proves that there is no hope for this world...

[Lindis]

Kataury wrote: "People don't like Twilight fans because they're usually teenagers that will be inheriting the challenges of the modern world. And the fact that the best they would be able to come up with is whethe..."

OMG People! Lighten up! In about a year it will all be over with! The movies will be done. And then they'll find the next big craze to jump on to. They are teenagers, let them be obsessed over Jacob or Edward for a while! They are not going to ruin the world, because they got a little lovesick over a hot vampire!

[Lindis]

Claire wrote: "I will tell you why us, the middle generation (aka anyone over 20 but UNDER 45 as I am positive that Twi-mums exsist, as my mum is one of them, I have even seen Twi-grandmas) are hard on Twilight F..."

I am in this "middle generation" that you talk about. What exactly do you call "obsessive"

I think that you have no right to call Stephenie Meyer, a moron. 1. That's just rude. 2. Well, she's made more money that you have. I bet. 3. Have you published a book? 4. Whatever your favorite author is, I wouldn't call he/she a moron.
Dang girl, too harsh. I would never call ANY author on this planet a moron! I have too much respect for them. Do you know how hard it is to put your thoughts, feelings, and imagination out there for the world to see?

PS Yes, I have read other books in this genre. I am not a moron for loving Twilight.

[Lindis]

Claire wrote: "^ I said MORMON, and I also said 'THIS IS ALL AN OPINION' at the end. So, the fact you didn't read that shows."

I did read it all, and you still have no right to call any author a MORON!

[Lindis]

Ashlee wrote: "Well then I apologize for misreading your post. But my response wasn't only aimed at you, it's been a few other people who are just making this out to me a big argument, when it was supposed to be ..."

Thank you so much Ashlee! I was the one that started this chat and I don't like the way it has gone. It WAS supposed to be a fun, mature chat for adults that enjoy the Twilight saga. I wouldn't mind the young readers commenting. It was written for them anyway. I'm ashamed at the way some of these people are talking. I think that it's childish for them to get all worked up over something that was meant for YOUNG readers. Go take your negativity somewhere else. Please!

[Lindis]

Paul wrote: ""Personally I'd rather support the Mormon church indirectly than some of the other things that certain individuals in such positions support. At least they sort of have standards..."

Really, Krist..."

And how did religion get sucked into this discussion? I believe in God. I am a christian that goes to church, but please take the religion elsewhere.

[[deleted user]]

You're an idiot...

[Lindis]

Jesla wrote: "thiers nothing bad about it"

That's right Jesla! you tell them! If you are reading all these comments, I hope you aren't offended. Some adults that are commenting, are not being very nice. You keep reading girlfriend! And Emmett totally Rocks!!!!! Mrs. Russell : )

[Lindis]

Okay, Clair, I have to apologize too. I misread also. But what does being a Mormon have to do with being able to write a good book. Please leave religion out of this chat. I still think you are being too negative!

[Lindis]

Paul wrote: "You're an idiot..."

Who's an Idiot?

[[deleted user]]

You are... when you buy one of her books or any of her merchandise 10% of the profits go to the Mormon church by Mormon law. So yes, you handing profits over to a cult has a place for discussion here.

You might want to go back and read some of the posts before you start spouting off about things you apparently know nothing about. OR you can go back to being emotional about an opinion on a shitty series of books

[Lindis]

I apologize for my mistakes on a few comments, but I will not apologize for speaking up against the negavitity and I am not an idiot. I really don't care what Stephenie Meyer does with HER money. I don't really care what her religious beliefs are.

And obviously, I am a little bit more mature than you. I'll be "emotional" about what every I want to. Aren't you being a little "emotional" when you call me and Idiot.

I take it personally that you call some of my favorite books "the S word" Tell me some of your favorites. I would never bash them. I have too much respect for authors. Go take you immaturity to a chat that wants your bull.

I choose not to use foul language, (and believe me I want to) I work in a school, and have students that are my friends. I started this chat. Please take your foul language, your biased opinions, and your negativity elsewhere!!!!

[Lindis]

Palice wrote: "@Lindis -- There isn't that much negativity here though, compared to other places. It's all opinions and discussion.
Religion came up because Stephenie Meyer is Mormon and some readers noticed it ..."

Thank you for the clarification. But, now I'm being verbally bashed. Not cool.

[Lindis]

Palice wrote: "It's started now, sadly."

Well, I'm done with it. I won't be checking this thread anymore, and won't comment again. You win Paul. I can't aford this fight.
Sticks and Stones

[Kristen]

Paul wrote: ""Personally I'd rather support the Mormon church indirectly than some of the other things that certain individuals in such positions support. At least they sort of have standards..."

Really, Krist..."

Ok, can we leave the personal insults out of this, please? Because if not, then I'll stop here and now. I, quite frankly, have better things to do than throw insults around. You have no idea what I am or am not educated on.

As I said, I do NOT agree with the Mormon religion. And there are different degrees of believers as with any religion. Just because she says she is a Mormon, does not mean she(or her church) sticks to every crazy belief that is labeled under the Mormon religion. Most people who claim to be a certain religion, rarely even know what their religion says.

But I did not say I WANTED to support them, however I'd rather support her actual church than other things, like oh say, some celebrities drug habits. Or possibly certain organizations they might support that I completely disagree with.

All I said was if you have one standard for Twilight and it's author, you ought to have that same standard for all others as well. It's hypocritical otherwise.

[Amina]

At this moment, this discussion is pathetic. Honestly, go to Psychology Today and read some articles on anger.

[[deleted user]]

Lindis wrote: "I really don't care what Stephenie Meyer does with HER money. "

That's because very few people could careless to the miseries they are contributing to in the world.

Your problem however is with anyone with a differing opinion from yours on some sappy books and your willingness to jump down someone's throat without fully READING their post. That is what makes you an idiot.

Also, I'm not being emotional, I am being astute... I sure hope you aren't a teacher.