Why authors go 'indie', and why the standard varies

[Keryl]

May I offer a suggestion to P.J. and Mary, please, if you can't afford an editor, swap your next stories with each other.

Unedited books is the single largest complaint about indies. Readers rightly expect that if you are going to ask them for money, that you offer them a product worth paying for, and that means minimal errors. Will you find everything? No, nor do they expect that, but things like wince mob, what's going to make readers wince, too.

But really, that's just proof reading. And the better your story is, the better it hangs together, the more of that they'll overlook. Having an extra set (or three) of eyes to go over plot, consistency, character development, etc... is vital, and it's awfully hard to do yourself, because you know all the background. What makes sense to you might not make sense to a reader because they don't know everything you do.

So, whatever you do, don't skip the outside edit. Eat ramen for a month to save up, get a part time job, or swap with someone else, but get that outside set of eyes!

[P.J.]

Thanks for the support Mary! I do take pride in my work. This is a labour of love.

You make an excellent point, Keryl - fortunately, my partner is also a writer, working on her first series, and we do help each other out with plot, consistency, etc. I also have a few other pairs of eyes who also help there.

My issue is proof reading. I've missed things like 'ciffs' instead of 'cliffs', or 'tham' instead of 'than'. That's all that stopped me from getting a perfect review!

I am planning to put money aside for a professional edit of the next book, though.

[Mary]

Well, my husband does help with the editing and formatting. He helped me a lot on my last book.

[P.J.]

It's always great if your partner is willing to help!

With regards to formatting, I've found the style guide on smashwords to be really useful. Most of it's common sense, but it makes a great checklist to see if your formatting is correct

[George]

I recently wrote this article for my author web blog and thought that is might be germane to this discussion…I’m not really interesting in debating the issue of indie versus traditional, but it would be interesting to hear how other independent authors arrived at their decision to following this chosen path.


INDEPENDENT’S ROAD – CHOICES MADE, CONSEQUENCES SUFFERED

I’ve often believed that every decision in life…from the mundane to the epic…comes with a price and a consequence. To eat in a manner that’s conducive to health…or to eat for the sensory pleasure of food…either alternative comes with its own set of consequences and sacrifices. The decision to embrace one or the other comes from contemplation of the benefits of one choice when weighed against the consequences or sacrifices of eschewing the other. With this in mind, I’d like to take a moment to write about my decision to become an independent author, foregoing the path of the agent-publisher road that has been the traditional route to literary markets…and the consequences that have come with taking this course.
Perhaps the most logical place to begin would be the motivations behind my choice to take the independent route…and I will readily confess that they are entirely selfish and self-centered. They spring from my fundamental belief that art…true art…is a subjective and individual thing and that a true artist should create for himself or herself and remain unapologetically true to their own artistic vision. In the dynamic between artist and consumer, the consumer has only one input…to like the finish product or to reject it. When advancing this particular theory on various threads and author discussion groups, I have been accused of being both unprofessional and lacking an understanding of the craft of writing. So be it. I am unfalteringly and unapologetically intransigent in my desire to control every aspect of my creative efforts, from the telling of the story, the nature of the story I wish to tell, the cover art and the website that will represent my face to the world. Basically, I chose to take an uncompromising approach to crafting the product I created for public consumption. I can lay sole claim to whatever merits my novels might have…along with their inherent flaws.
That was the choice made…now come the consequences suffered.
When a writer elects to travel down the independent’s road, he has set before himself a path fraught with obstacles…the biggest of which is the reading public’s general perception of the indie writer and the product being offered by the independent artist. For the most part, the independent writer is regarded with a level of contempt and disdain that is both staggering and daunting. It is commonly held that one elects to take the indie path because they are talentless and/or too indolent to take the time to learn the craft of writing…that their products are sub-standard dross that have no place on the bookshelves (real or virtual) beside those masters who have been vetted by traditional agents and publishing houses. The enmity many of these people hold for indie writers is really the greatest obstacle being faced by those who trod on this particular road. Be sure that those who subscribe to this belief with have no compunction about baring knives and carving up those who have the audacity to suggest they have a product worthy of consideration. As is the case with most prejudices, every independent author is painted with the same brush by those who would hold to this view…relegated to the status of a pariah whose creative products are stain on the good name of literature.
The members of the reading public, who are not quite as cynical, still view the indie writer with a wary eye. To invest their hard-earned coin and time in taking a chance on an indie writer’s material, it is often necessary for an independent writer to offer his work for a pittance…or free…as an inducement for the would-be reader to risk either their time or money.
This is but one of the consequences of taking the Independent’s road.
The Converging, the initial segment of my horror trilogy is now offered free across every e-reader platform. I cannot overstate the degree of anguish the decision to offer this novel free has caused me…I felt that I had betrayed a my own creation…a novel that I still look on with a tremendous amount of affection twenty years after having first written it…a novel in which I invested literary thousands of hours to create Still, if I am ever to find an outlet for my creative work, it was what I judged had to be done to entice those who raise a wary eye to take a chance that I might have something of value to offer.
This is the consequence of the choice that I made to follow the path of the independent writer.
Choices and consequences.
Still, I cling to my fundamental belief that, if I cannot tell the story I elect to tell, precisely as I wish to tell it, I would rather not tell it at all.

[Editio]

Here is an article about the benefits to self-publishing from a woman who worked in the publishing industry. She mentioned some things that have not been mentioned here yet.
http://editioselfpublishing.com/5-ben...
I think truly the benefits are whatever you get out of it. What could be the benefits to one might not be to someone else if they are not having the same experience.

[[deleted user]]

Editio wrote: "I think truly the benefits are whatever you get out of it. What could be the benefits to one might not be to someone else if they are not having the same experience. "

The level of expectation you have going into it is probably another factor too.

[Editio]

Emma wrote: "Editio wrote: "I think truly the benefits are whatever you get out of it. What could be the benefits to one might not be to someone else if they are not having the same experience. "

The level of..."

Absolutely. I think that is huge. If you expect to much, you will be discouraged faster. Good point.

[J.S.]

A quiet reminder that not ALL indie titles are DIY (meaning unedited or self edited, and with sloppy formatting in print or ereader ) --

Many small press titles must now compete with the "virtual slushpile" out now of DIY works.

A small press often has higher production standards than a Big House.

[Larry]

P.J. wrote: "I decided to go indie (I agree with an earlier post, in that I prefer calling myself an 'indie-author' over self-published - the latter has a few negative connotations linked to vanity publishing f..."

Here's a fact that any professional news editor will tell you. NOBODY is skilled at spotting their own errors as the mind sees what is supposed to be there, rather than what actually is on the page. Even after half a century, I still have someone else review virtually all of the copy I write, even if it's an article rather than a book. Books should be subject to extra scrutiny. A newspaper article has a short life. Books, with the author's name, are often available decades later. When an author becomes famous, they don't want to be embarrassed by shoddy earlier work. Actually, they are far less likely to ever become famous or wealthy. That includes POD and EBooks. If it's not the best work possible, the author should avoid publishing. Just my take on the situation.

[Larry]

George wrote: "I recently wrote this article for my author web blog and thought that is might be germane to this discussion…I’m not really interesting in debating the issue of indie versus traditional, but it wou..."

When you march to a different drummer, you tear down the very fabric of the institution from which your seeking recognition.

[Larry]

Editio wrote: "Here is an article about the benefits to self-publishing from a woman who worked in the publishing industry. She mentioned some things that have not been mentioned here yet.
http://editioselfpubli..."

Rather deceptive to promote your own operation while putting forth a staffer as "a woman who worked in the publishing industry" and thereby implying expertise.

[Larry]

J.S. wrote: "A quiet reminder that not ALL indie titles are DIY (meaning unedited or self edited, and with sloppy formatting in print or ereader ) --

Many small press titles must now compete with the "virtua..."

And more often they do not. I battled for a year and a half with a less than competent book editor at a small publishing house. We came to a parting of the ways and less than a year later the publisher was out of business. I re-edited the book back to its former state and published it three years late. The result four and five star reviews.

[M.M.]

I feel quite happy being an indie author - profitable or not - it certainly moves one closer to one's goals.

As for the editing issue, that is one of the biggest challenges. Swaps is a good idea if you can find anyone qualified and willing. Spell checkers miss much when words are correctly spelt but out of context, such as 'from' and 'form'. And for that matter, I have seen quite a few mistakes and inconsistencies in books from major publishers.

I have found that reading my chapters out loud helps a lot.

[M.M.]

I feel quite happy being an indie author - profitable or not - it certainly moves one closer to one's goals.

As for the editing issue, that is one of the biggest challenges. Swaps is a good idea if you can find anyone qualified and willing. Spell checkers miss much when words are correctly spelt but out of context, such as 'from' and 'form'. And for that matter, I have seen quite a few mistakes and inconsistencies in books from major publishers.

I have found that reading my chapters out loud helps a lot.

[Lee]

I agree that editing is critical. I wrote and rewrote a number of novels, but didn't publish one until I got a professional editor. After I put out the first book, I added a proofreader because I and the editor missed a mortifying number of typos, such that I pulled the first edition and put out a second. So I advise having both an editor and a proofreader even if it means having a backlog of books to publish as I do.

[M.J.]

Lee wrote: "I agree that editing is critical. I wrote and rewrote a number of novels, but didn't publish one until I got a professional editor. After I put out the first book, I added a proofreader because I a..."

Sound advice Lee. Of course cost can be a major factor in the decision but as many proofreaders as possible and at least five edits for me. I'd love a professional edit but it is too expensive.

The real problem and difference between the two methods of publishing is marketing. As an Indie author it is more or less impossible to reach people beyond your immediate sphere of influence and there is so much prejudice out there.

[Lee]

M J Webb wrote: "Lee wrote: "I agree that editing is critical. I wrote and rewrote a number of novels, but didn't publish one until I got a professional editor. After I put out the first book, I added a proofreader..."

Finding the right editor is tricky. You're not just looking for someone to check your grammar, but someone to test your ideas and tell you when a passage just doesn't work. Paying someone is not always the answer. Others have mentioning swapping on this thread, and I think that can work if you find someone whose writing you admire and who is also looking for an editor too. I believe the key is sympathetic objectivity and an understanding of the genre(s) in which you write.

[M.J.]

Lee wrote: "M J Webb wrote: "Lee wrote: "I agree that editing is critical. I wrote and rewrote a number of novels, but didn't publish one until I got a professional editor. After I put out the first book, I ad..."

You are spot on. I have managed to find such a person for my sequel and I'm so excited by it. I would love to find a mainstream publisher but the likelihood is several wasted years of frustration, isn't it?

I mean, what are the odds?

[Lee]

M J Webb wrote: "Lee wrote: "M J Webb wrote: "Lee wrote: "I agree that editing is critical. I wrote and rewrote a number of novels, but didn't publish one until I got a professional editor. After I put out the firs..."

The odds are very poor of finding a literary agent or traditional publisher. They aren't interested in books by unknowns that may only sell a few thousand copies. I spent a fruitless year submitting my first book to 35 literary agents and publishers (more than J.K. Rowland) and all I got for it was an enhanced ability to write blurbs for the back cover of my paperback editions.

[M.J.]

Oooh, I am so envious, I can't write a blurb for toffee. I find them harder to write than a novel. And don't get me started on a synopsis.

I think like you mate, I did send off the numerous agents and publishers but I'm not convinced they even read past chapter 1. At least as an indie author I have control. It's a bit lonely at times without support but the world is my lobster. lol

[Lee]

M J Webb wrote: "Oooh, I am so envious, I can't write a blurb for toffee. I find them harder to write than a novel. And don't get me started on a synopsis.

I think like you mate, I did send off the numerous agents..."

You're right on about control, but editing and proofreading takes time, a lot of time. You should go through at least two edits with your independent editor. Your patience will be rewarded.

Writing blurbs and descriptions is a critical skill for marketing. I run these by my editor multiple times too.

Hang in there.

[M.J.]

Lee wrote: "M J Webb wrote: "Oooh, I am so envious, I can't write a blurb for toffee. I find them harder to write than a novel. And don't get me started on a synopsis.

I think like you mate, I did send off th..."

Will do. Thanks and best wishes.

[Larry]

J.S. wrote: "A quiet reminder that not ALL indie titles are DIY (meaning unedited or self edited, and with sloppy formatting in print or ereader ) --

Many small press titles must now compete with the "virtua..."

Editio wrote: "Emma wrote: "Editio wrote: "I think truly the benefits are whatever you get out of it. What could be the benefits to one might not be to someone else if they are not having the same experience. "
..."

[Larry]

Larry wrote: "J.S. wrote: "A quiet reminder that not ALL indie titles are DIY (meaning unedited or self edited, and with sloppy formatting in print or ereader ) --

Many small press titles must now compete with ..."

Larry wrote: "P.J. wrote: "I decided to go indie (I agree with an earlier post, in that I prefer calling myself an 'indie-author' over self-published - the latter has a few negative connotations linked to vanity..."

[Larry]

You're right about ALL indie titles NOT being DIY. But it's up to the author and how much they care about their work, how hard they're willing to work. My novel Future King was self-published through CreateSpace, but not before it was edited by Michael Garrett the man who edited Steven King's first book. Of course, that wasn't free of charge. On the other hand, the first review of Future King just went up on Amazon. It was by Harriet Klausner, one of Amazon's top reviewers. She gave it five stars. So I'm smiling through the sweat.

[Larry]

M J Webb wrote: "Lee wrote: "I agree that editing is critical. I wrote and rewrote a number of novels, but didn't publish one until I got a professional editor. After I put out the first book, I added a proofreader..."

MJ, yes, cost is a factor, but I'm forced to counter with: How valuable is a writer's reputation? As is already happening in the EBook world, many really bad books are being put out without benefit of plot, copy editing or any of the other requisites. That can result in numerous negative reviews and an author's future works (assuming there are any) being shunned by the buying public.

[Larry]

George wrote: "I recently wrote this article for my author web blog and thought that is might be germane to this discussion…I’m not really interesting in debating the issue of indie versus traditional, but it wou..."

George, would that more writers shared your sentiments. Too many take no pride in what they produce and seek only to make a quick buck and/or walk around calling themselves authors and novelists, without having paid their dues of feeling any ethical responsibility for the drivel they product.

As a fellow writer, I always strive to put forth the best product possible - otherwise, I don't deserve the designation.

Best,

[Keryl]

Simon wrote: "Well Editio, beyond your list and some other comments here, the author of "Littluns" wanted to create something that no publisher would ever do with a novel. He wanted to offer a book that in many ..."

Your link isn't working for me.

How is Littluns different from a graphic novel?

[Larry]

Keryl wrote: "Simon wrote: "Well Editio, beyond your list and some other comments here, the author of "Littluns" wanted to create something that no publisher would ever do with a novel. He wanted to offer a book..."

How is it even a novel. It doesn't meet the traditional parameters. Book yes, novel no.
That's my take on it after many years as a professional writer.

[Keryl]

Second link worked fine, and yes, it is quite different from a graphic novel.

What's a peradventure? The last line of the breaking all the rules page is "For you, the peradventure and journey is just beginning..."

For Larry, why do you think it isn't a novel? (I haven't ready too far in on the website, but I was under the impression that fiction over a certain word count was a novel.)

[Larry]

Keryl, sorry, but I've already answered the same question at least three times in the last week or two.

Am I the only one who reads comments other than responses to questions I've posted.

[Larry]

Keryl, I found and copied out the response I posted last night.

"Kat wrote: "I like the term 'Novelist.'"

FYI. Novelist is an iffy term, there are those who argue that novelist connotes someone who writes in a literary style. Dictionaries provide the lowest common denomenator; i.e. someone who writes a novel.

Wikipedia defines novel as: "A novel is a book of long narrative in literary prose. The genre has historical roots both in the fields of the medieval and early modern romance and in the tradition of the novella. The latter supplied the present generic term in the late 18th century.

"Further definition of the genre is historically difficult. The construction of the narrative, the plot, the way reality is created in the works of fiction, the fascination of the character study, and the use of language are usually discussed to show a novel's artistic merits. Most of these requirements were introduced in the 16th and 17th centuries in order to give fiction a justification outside the field of factual history. The individualism of the presentation makes the personal memoir and the autobiography the two closest relatives among the genres of modern histories." By those collective definitions, I would be a writer and author, but definitely NOT a novelist.

I also find "novelist, a tad too pretentious.

Thus, I'm a journalist, writer and author but NOT a novelist.

[N.B.]

I decided to go it alone because I was sick of publishers and agents giving me nothing to go on. Just saying "Sorry this isn't what we're looking for" doesn't help anyone. Some letters weren't even signed with my name but "Dear Sir/Madame". That seems very unproffessional to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my books are masterpieces. There's always room for improvement, but how can you improve a book if you don't know what's wrong? There's only so many times you can edit and re-work your manuscript. Then there's the catch 22 problem. Some agents won't take you unless you have a publisher and some publishers won't take you unless you have an agent. With resources such as Amazon Kindle and Smashwords, authors can bypass this process altogether. I would personally recommend continuing to send off books and get a mainstream deal, but why not get your books out there while you wait? My own novel 'Sacrifice' will be released shortly, so let's hope I don't end up eating my words.

[Larry]

Nadia wrote: "I decided to go it alone because I was sick of publishers and agents giving me nothing to go on. Just saying "Sorry this isn't what we're looking for" doesn't help anyone. Some letters weren't even..."

Welcome to the traditional publishing biz, their gatekeepers (agents) and the serfdom they created to keep writers in thrall. Now, with the growth of EBooks, they're running scared because writers have realized there's no substantial reason to share their earnings with vultures at the Big Six.

[Keryl]

Larry wrote: "Keryl, I found and copied out the response I posted last night.

"Kat wrote: "I like the term 'Novelist.'"

FYI. Novelist is an iffy term, there are those who argue that novelist connotes someone w..."

Okay. I get what you're saying.

If people ask me what I do, I say author/writer. If they ask what I write, I say novels, because to 99% of the people out there a 250k word work of prose fiction is a novel and nothing else.

[Lee]

Keryl wrote: "Larry wrote: "Keryl, I found and copied out the response I posted last night.

"Kat wrote: "I like the term 'Novelist.'"

FYI. Novelist is an iffy term, there are those who argue that novelist conn..."

I like Larry's take on "Novelist," but I'm going to claim the title anyway. I hope I'm entitled to based on intent if nothing else. Even in my thrillers, which I hope are entertaining, my intent is to say something about the human condition worth reading. I will shortly publish a book in the literary fiction non-genre that will be a bust if I'm not a novelist.

[J.S.]

Larry wrote: "You're right about ALL indie titles NOT being DIY. But it's up to the author and how much they care about their work, how hard they're willing to work. My novel Future King was self-published throu..."

Larry, just to clarify,

my remarks were on behalf of not only those working w/o a publisher imprint who do choose to hire an editor, layout person, and etc;

but the small publishers whose titles are thrown in with the label "indie" for a variety of purposes ---despite the small press producing titles to a high standard.

[[deleted user]]

My personal reason for going indie was more, well, personal.

I like having control over my book, saying what goes in and out of it, and being able to do the cover design on my own. I won't say that it is for everybody, because it isn't, but I like it. I like being able to know that the product I'm putting in front of readers is something that I'm proud of and worked hard on, seeing to every little detail myself. I'm a bit of perfectionist in that regard. If I sent it off to a publishing house to be edited, and for someone else to slap a cover on it that wasn't what I had envisioned, I honestly think I would cry.

Being an indie author may be a risk in some aspects, but I work hard on my work, and try and make it the best it can be. Indie authors aren't any better or worse than traditionally published ones -- we're just different, and it all depends on author as to whether you will get a great product or not. Editors are great, but we can't all afford them, and some of us don't want them. I've always been a bit of a grammar nut, so I don't see the reason for an editor, but they may change with time, and for my writing buddies who are not so wonderful with grammar...I suggest an editor.

As to the royalties, yes, I like getting more than your average twenty five cents (or whatever it is now) for something that I worked so hard on.

[Lee]

Alexandra wrote: "My personal reason for going indie was more, well, personal.

I like having control over my book, saying what goes in and out of it, and being able to do the cover design on my own. I won't say th..."

I agree with you about having control over all aspects of my books including cover design. I am also something of a grammar nut, but I find an editor to be valuable for much more than a grammar check: namely raising questions that cause me to rethink passages and to reshape them to get across clearly the story I want to tell. I also find a proofreader invaluable. I realize I'm extremely fortunate in having gifted volunteers helping me.

[[deleted user]]

Lee wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "My personal reason for going indie was more, well, personal.

I like having control over my book, saying what goes in and out of it, and being able to do the cover design on my o..."

A proofreader is very valuable. I definitely make sure I have a number of trusted, appreciated people proof my stories and give me feedback -- both in the writing process and as I work towards publishing. You are right that this brings up ideas/thoughts/plot holes that you may not have thought about.

[Keryl]

Simon wrote: "Keryl, sorry I missed your question.

A peradventure is an adventure by chance. Unexpected."

No problem. At first I thought it was a typo. Then I googled it.

You might want to double check the definition. Unless you've modified the word in your story world to make it mean what you want it to.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pera...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...

http://www.answers.com/topic/peradven...

[Mona]

Jason wrote: "Interesting discussion, wish I would've gotten to it earlier. I went indie after 5 years in publishing. Had extensive nonfiction published starting in about 2005, enough to qualify for membership..."
Jason:
I agree,,,particularly as to the fact that writing as an indie freed me up. I think I've said this previously, but I'm beginning to find that elusive "voice" all the How-To books talk about.

[[deleted user]]

Jason wrote: "I would have a hard time putting myself back on the 'Big 6' publishing track again. I'll leave it for Snooki, Nicole Richy, 50 Cent and other 'real' writers. "

HAHAHA! So, right.

[Sarah]

P.J. wrote: "I decided to go indie (I agree with an earlier post, in that I prefer calling myself an 'indie-author' over self-published - the latter has a few negative connotations linked to vanity publishing f..."

It took me a while to work out what 'indie-author' stood for! I ended up travelling down the same road when I failed to secure a conventional contract with an English publisher because my name didn't have enough kudos to carry my book into the top 100! They actually asked me to list my claim to fame!

I thought I was in with a chance as I had been featured on prime time TV in a programme for Channel 4 with Amanda Lamb, 'A Place in the Sun!' Couple that with my coup de resistance (as I thought)that I went to secondary school with the three times World Champion Motor Cyclist, Rocket Ron Haslam.

My Indie publishers basic package included an editor/proofreader and being a perfectionist I enrolled a team of friends from around the world to proofread for me too!

Big thanks to all of you, take a bow! I am now waiting for a release date and I can honestly say I wouldn't hesitate to recommend using Raider International who have offices in New York, Johannesburg, and other places around the world and their very own bookshop in New York!

[Everly]

I love being an indie author. There are so many great reasons why writers chose to go Indie. The drawback, unfortunately is the stigma that goes with it.
http://editioselfpublishing.com/the-s...
That can be hard to deal with, but if you have a good support network and you realize your on the cusp of a revolution, you should be fine.

[Simon]

I recently turned my back on trade publishing after four novels. I loved having the resources of a decent publisher behind my work, but the market is changing rapidly and the more bookstores close down, the less chance my new book will sit on shelves long enough to make any kind of impact. I've released this one as an ebook and also POD via Lightning Source, which means it'll never go out of print. It's the first in an open-ended series so I'm not even fussed about making a splash, since each new book will help the earlier ones along.

[Lynne]

I have thought about this route, but have stayed with traditional publisher and e-publisher so far. I would want to find a good editor and cover artist, which costs money, and would be concerned about uploading the book and the boatload of promo it would take to get noticed. I worry that the quality of books may go down with so many choosing this route. I've read several lately (the 99cent ones) and the quality varies.
I agree with Bob Mayer about what an author needs to do before going Indie. It shouldn't be the first book, which can set the tone for your whole future career, but your third book, and an author should have lots of backlist to rely on. All of that translates to WRITE, WRITE, WRITE!

[Pete]

I decided to self-publish Diary of a Small Fish when my agent and I waited 9 months for any one of the seven editors we'd submitted to indicate that he'd actually read it.

When 7 editors take more than 9 months to get to a submission they've asked for, then you tend to lose confidence in the system.

Maybe the sales here will encourage them. ;-)

[Lynne]

If you go Indie - are you still planning to give your agent their 20% cut? I think, if you do the editing, cover, formatting and uploading yourself, then the money should all go to you. However, if your agent pays for the editing, cover etc, then they would deserve their cut.
I know what you mean about eternal waiting time to hear about proposals. It really is crazy and based on the author living to a ripe old age. :/