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Wolf Hall (Thomas Cromwell #1)
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BRITISH MONARCHY/ROYAL HOUSES > 3. AL - WOLF HALL - PART II - CHAPTER 3 AND PART III - CHAPTER 1 (154 - 197) (03/07/11 - 03/13/11) ~ No spoilers, please

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message 1: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Feb 17, 2011 09:04PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bentley | 44168 comments Mod
This write-up - thanks to Garret.

Hello,

During the week of March 7 – March 13, we are reading Part II Chapter 3 Part III Chapter 1 pp 154-197

This thread will discuss the following:

Week 3 – March 7 – March 13 -> Part II Chapter III Make or Mar, All Hallows 1529 and Part III Chapter I Three Card Trick, Winter 1529 – Spring 1530

Remember, these weekly non spoiler threads are just that - non spoiler. There are many other threads where "spoiler information" can be placed including the glossary and any of the other supplemental threads.

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we have done for other spotlighted reads.

We kicked off this book on February 21. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, on iTunes for the ipad, etc. However, be careful, some audible formats are abridged and not unabridged.

There is still time remaining to obtain the book and get started. There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Welcome,

Garret

Wolf Hall by Hilary Mantel Hilary Mantel Hilary Mantel


This is a link to the complete table of contents and syllabus thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/4...

TO SEE ALL WEEK'S THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

This is a kick-off book for the Audiobook folder.

Remember this is a non spoiler thread.


Garret (ggannuch) Week 3
This week we get more about Cromwell and his children, Wolsey's predicament and now some insight into how Wolsey is perceived by the British population. And we have a long exchange between the king and Cromwell. We learn where Cromwell sits politically as Wolsey's demise is unfolding.


message 3: by Garret (last edited Mar 06, 2011 06:28AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Garret (ggannuch) Norfolk calls Cromwell a “person" as an insult. Why is this meant as an insult?


Garret (ggannuch) What is it about Cromwell that frustrates members of the nobility so much? Why were Wolsey and Henry able to appreciate Cromwell’s talents when everyone else merely saw him as an impudent schemer?


message 5: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bentley | 44168 comments Mod
I think they felt intimidated by his intelligence and because they felt he was so smart; they felt he was up to something or believed he might be when in fact he may not have been.

Those that knew him well could understand his superior skills and intellect and appreciated what that could bring. A mind that might bring to light things other folks overlooked.


Garret (ggannuch) Good points Bently. Resentment comes through strongly, doesn't it.
I also think the nobility thinks of him as common and reaching too high above his place. So Norfolk insults him by calling him "you... person..." Chuckled at that one.

Duke of Norfolk:
‘“You . . . person,” he says; and again, “you nobody from Hell, you whore-spawn, you cluster of evil, you lawyer.”’


message 7: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Mar 06, 2011 11:50AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bentley | 44168 comments Mod
Norfolk was never a favorite of mine; so I guess Cromwell probably considered the sources. I think the lawyer ending adds a nice touch.


Mary Ellen | 184 comments I don't have much background in economic history, but at this point, were the nobility beginning to be threatened by a "middle class" of merchants, professionals, etc.? That might be why Norfolk hates him as he does, and Henry & Wolsey (what was his background?) are happy to use his talents to attain their ends.


message 9: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 19, 2011 12:31PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bentley | 44168 comments Mod
I did find this Mary:

The key to Cromwell’s swift fall seems to have been the Duke of Norfolk. His family had a long noble lineage and he would have been greatly angered that a commoner had been made an earl. In fact, the elevation of Cromwell (born into a non-noble family) was extremely rare then. But what would have caused him even more anger was the fact that Cromwell was the most dominant man at court and not himself or members of his family.

Source: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/...


Mary Ellen | 184 comments Thanks, Bentley! Yes, Cromwell is certainly a social upstart!

But Norfolk would have been well advised to retire to his estate & grow root vegetables!


message 11: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bentley | 44168 comments Mod
(lol) He seemed to make noblemen miserable.


Garret (ggannuch) That he did. And he enjoyed it.


message 13: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bentley | 44168 comments Mod
Yes, he would not have wanted to admit that he inherited some of father's penchant for cruelty.


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