THE NAME OF THE ROSE

[Marialyce]

Me too, Shay!

[Lisa]

I have mine at 40% done and I'm about 1/2 done with Nones on day 2. I know that I'm behind, but would love to pick this up again!

[Marialyce]

Lisa, Me too!

[Catherine]

Lisa wrote: "I have mine at 40% done and I'm about 1/2 done with Nones on day 2. I know that I'm behind, but would love to pick this up again!"

So would I. Things just kind of ....stopped.

[Lisa]

Literally! I'm far enough along that I what to see what happens! I need the discussion though, it makes things make sense! Do I sound too needy?

[Shay]

I'm just starting Day 2, Nones.

[Catherine]

Lisa wrote: "Literally! I'm far enough along that I what to see what happens! I need the discussion though, it makes things make sense! Do I sound too needy?"

Not at all. Discussing the novel like this gives us all a chance to see things from different points of view, to see what we all think, and maybe you see something I missed, or I see something you missed, etc.

[Bernadette]

I finished it but would still like to discuss

[Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB]

Shay wrote: "Ellie wrote: "This is the first post I've gotten-are we still doing this?"

The last schedule went through day 2, right? Can anyone tell me how far that is in the book, percentage wise? I think I c..."

yes- I read up to day two- and then...kinda..misplaced the book!! if someone can write a schedule for Day Three while I sift through the 1000 or so books I have and find it!!!
Thanks!

[Marialyce]

I just finished Day 2, but can't really make a schedule since I have it on my Kindle.

I have a question though...the monks mention and argue over the fact that Jesus never laughed. Does anyone think this is wrong. I, myself, believe he did. How could he not with all the people he was with and then of course there was the children.

[Lisa]

I have the paperback version so I can try to put a schedule together.
I think that Jesus laughed, I have no proof, but God wanted to experience humanity and laughter is definately a human experience. Plus, being around kids just makes you laugh no matter how serious you are!:)

[Marialyce]

Thanks Lisa!

[Lisa]

Shall we just start with Day 3? So how about:
April 14th-16th From Lauds to Prime
April 16th - 18th Sext
April 18th - 20th Nones
April 20th - 23nd After Compline
April 23rd - 25th Night
The after compline is around 30 pages, so I added an extra day since it is longer. Does that sound ok? I'm pretty flexible about schedules!

[Marialyce]

That sounds great to me. Thanks again for doing this, Lisa!

[Lisa]

It is not a problem!

[Ellen]

Rick wrote: "Shay wrote: "Ellie wrote: "This is the first post I've gotten-are we still doing this?"

The last schedule went through day 2, right? Can anyone tell me how far that is in the book, percentage wi..."

Thanks Lisa.

LOL Rick! :D

[Marialyce]

On my Kindle where I just completed day 2, it says 35%.

[Ellen]

Thx Marialyce-that helps me a lot (sync my Kindle reading) :)

[Susan]

I got off the track with this book due to a trip and books I had to read for other clubs /classes. I'm determined to get back to it now.

[Catherine]

Lisa wrote: "Shall we just start with Day 3? So how about:
April 14th-16th From Lauds to Prime
April 16th - 18th Sext
April 18th - 20th Nones
April 20th - 23nd After Compline
April 23rd - 25th Night
The af..."

Thanks for doing this Lisa. This schedule looks great! I'm glad we're continuing on with the book.

[Catherine]

Marialyce wrote: "I have a question though...the monks mention and argue over the fact that Jesus never laughed. Does anyone thi..."

I think Jesus laughed more than we think. A lot of the time humor gets lost in translation and plays on words that Jesus was making WERE literally lost in translation. He did that a few times, but we lose that in the English translations we use. I think he also laughed or chortled or giggled at the humans we are. Oh, yes, he took us seriously, but not so seriously that he didn't also find humor in life and joy in life too.

[Susan]

Jesus wouldn't have been human if he didn't laugh.

[Marialyce]

I agree, Catherine and Susan!

I am sure we, as a human race, have handed him many laughs along with the tears.

[Diana]

I also agree and I am almost certain that Jesus laughed, because he is described as being such a GOOD human being, that he died for our sins, so part of that must have been laughing... A good person knows to enjoy life and to embrace laughter and people...
I cannot see the image of Jesus without laughter :)
Although (sorry for all christians), I believe that Jesus was a prophet, not the son of God, I think he was a mighty good character and that he has done some pretty neat things for the people out there....
But Jorge doesn;t see this, since he is part of the extremist group that believes in working and praying only... laughter has nothing to do with that... benedictians and franciscans at rosery monasteries were known for their view of work and prayer only....
I don't agree with it, but it is a part of religious history in some parts of Europe... :)

[Ellen]

However, I think the point is that the Bible doesn't specifically say "Jesus laughed" which is a crucial point for someone like Jorge. Whereas I would think that meant that Jesus laughing was something so usual as not to be remarked upon-it's his weeping that was startling enough to be talked about and passed on as part of the Story.
After all, the Pharisees were constantly kvetching about Jesus hanging out in bars with the sinners, so obviously he knew at the very least how to be comfortable around people who were laughing. It's the sight of his grief that shocks the disciples.
But again Jorge is a fundamentalist who takes the sentence "Jesus weeps" as a sign that that is the only emotion Jesus expressed or that somehow his weeping equals never laughing. I'm not quite sure how he reaches this conclusion but then this is his craziness not mine.
A life without laughter would have to lead to insanity.
Maybe that was the cause of the Salem witch hunts? Too much earnestness, not enough laughter?
Probably not, just a thought.

[Ellen]

Diana wrote: "I also agree and I am almost certain that Jesus laughed, because he is described as being such a GOOD human being, that he died for our sins, so part of that must have been laughing... A good perso..."

btw, Diana, I'm a Catholic & it's no offense to me what you believe. I think we agree on the issue of laughter, if not of divinity! LOL

[Susan]

Diana wrote: "I also agree and I am almost certain that Jesus laughed, because he is described as being such a GOOD human being, that he died for
our sins, so perso..."

Well said.

[Ellen]

thx :D

[Bernadette]

The priests at my church are in trouble if Jorge is right LOL. There are two that are among the funniest people I know and use a lot of humor to commucate their message...

[Ellen]

So true. Some of the best priests I've known have been hilarious.

[Diana]

Ellie wrote: "Diana wrote: "I also agree and I am almost certain that Jesus laughed, because he is described as being such a GOOD human being, that he died for our sins, so part of that must have been laughing....."

I am Greek Orthodox and I truly, from my whole heart believe in God... it's just other aspects of this religion I have certain problems with :)
So, I'm not trying to start this conversation, I was just trying to explain where I'm coming from :)
And I am really glad I didn't offend anyone with my comment :)

[Lisa]

Ellie wrote: "However, I think the point is that the Bible doesn't specifically say "Jesus laughed" which is a crucial point for someone like Jorge. Whereas I would think that meant that Jesus laughing was somet..."

Wonderfully said Ellie!

[Ellen]

thx. :)

[Marialyce]

I have to say that I like the reverence the monks show for books. They so equate them with knowledge, although the theme seemed to be that once the secular books came into being the ways of hell were opened up to them.

The brother, Sebastien, from Italy certainly told some tales about living there, so much so that it did seem like one did live in hell.

[Ellen]

Personally, I think that's one of the better traditions of the Catholic Church. & folks like Jorge certainly indicate a need for some guidance in reading Scripture.

Of course, you can't stop crazy.

[Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB]

Lisa wrote: "Shall we just start with Day 3? So how about:
April 14th-16th From Lauds to Prime
April 16th - 18th Sext
April 18th - 20th Nones
April 20th - 23nd After Compline
April 23rd - 25th Night
The af..."

thanks!! found my copy- some catching up to do!!

[Ellen]

Yay Rick!

[Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB]

Ellie wrote: "Yay Rick!"

thanks!!

[Marialyce]

Sext well Salvatore was certainly a strange character. All that talk about the various types of "eating" including cannibalism was surely unsettling. One certainly would not want to be roaming Italy at that time.

Interesting use for the term "the simple" by William referring to the uneducated. The denunciation of the Jews as the killers of Christ seemed to hold true for so many centuries and was the basis for so much prejudice against them. I think it was not that many years ago that the Church absolved them of that crime. I am so often surprised by their defamation in many of the "classic" books I have read.

[Michele]

many lay people cannot differentiate between an inability to learn and those not educated. There is a difference. Not all people are blessed with intellect and neither are all blessed with formal education. That still holds true today.

[Catherine]

I found this chapter not as interesting as some of the others. It does give some insight into the character of Salvatore and perhaps we are going to need that insight (I haven't read that much further ahead!). The next chapter captures my imagination a little more, so maybe it's just the chapter or maybe it was just me, not that into reading this book this week.

[Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB]

still catching up!!

[Amanda]

What exactly is a 'buddyread'?

[Susan]

(Pant, pant) Me, too.

[stan]

Hi I would like to come in here. two or three points I would like to make. The church in the early days ,in fact it wasn't until the late middle ages that the common people began to get educated. The church had the learning and the power to spread the misconceptions about any thing contentious. Thus the idea that the Jews killed Jesus is not at all true. Indeed Jesus was himself a Jew.
The other point about books depicting Jews in a disreputable image is a easy target. To name the well known culprits Shakespeare and Dickens.
Also I do remember a British author by the name of "Sapper" who was a blatant Anti-Semite, this was between the wars.
Now, thank goodness people are educated to the extent that any slurs on minority races are swiftly dealt with, anyway here in GB we enjoy a wide selection of literature in many, many races .

[Lisa]

I find it interesting how Adso has moments of introspection and tries to find answers to the hard questions, but then he steps back and falls upon his teachings to keep everything, forgive me, kosher. Ha! It seems that William had influence upon Adso later in life, but not as much to take him out of his shell.
It will be interesting to see how he grows (or not.)

[Susan]

I have just caught up, but I would like to make a comment on Day 2. I had really hoped that all the stuff about the different groups and heretics, and the Pope versus the Empire would not come up again. However, it did. For some reason, I can not get my mind around that (because I'm not interested?) So, once again, I read it, and have decided to put in my memory that there are two differing groups that are going to meet at this particular monastery as neutral ground, and let it go at that.

I am starting to get all the strange old monks confused. There are so many of them. I think that this book would be a lot shorter if all the strange old monks just said what they had to say and stopped talking in riddles. Hah!

I found it interesting in Day 2, how the abbot was transposed while contemplating the gold and jewel encrusted ornaments, particularly since the main difference between the groups is whether they should embrace poverty.

And, I enjoyed the scene in the labyrinth. It's nice to know that Brother William can't figure everything out.

[Marialyce]

I agree,Susan, it has gotten a bit (?) wordy and "history is repeating itself. Yes, it is poverty versus wealth and the church has always been wealthy. ( just price out some of the art works owned by the church).

So, we will see if the heretics prevail or if Brother William outsmarts them all and wins the day.

[Lisa]

Makes you wonder if every monostery a had a glut of strange old monks.

[Ellen]

Still do probably.