THE JAMES MASON COMMUNITY BOOK CLUB discussion
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THE NAME OF THE ROSE
Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in and gave up! I was going to bin it!! but gave it, and the other copy I'd been given to a local charity shop, I think they are both still there! For what it is worth, my opinion is DVC was the most over hyped load of dry old chips there has been, and as was pointed out it wasn't even an original concept!
Glad I'm an 'Indie' author!
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Mod
Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in and gave up! I was going to bin it!! but gave it, and the other copy I'd been given to ..."
I think there are a lot of us who feel and felt that way. I finished the book, but I wish I had not wasted my time.
Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in and gave up! I was going to bin it!! but gave it, and the other copy I'd..."
Good to know. I have a used copy of DVC that I had been meaning to read, since everyone in the world seems to have read it but me...now I don't care if I get to it or not :) There are a lot of books out there that I would prefer to read anyway
Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in and gave up! I was going to bin it!! but gave it, and t..."
I honestly found it a complete waste of time, but I know there are many who really enjoyed it.
I have to defend The Da Vinci Code. I did like it and found the whole topic to be interesting and pretty fascinating. I am enjoying The Name of the Rose as well, but I do tend to think that there is quite a bit of rhetoric that might dismay some. I've enjoyed the religious wonderings of things that I never thought of. While one teaches religion in a way, the other took a facet of faith and ran with it.
Gundula wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in and gave up! I was going to bin it!! ..."
I wasn't that "jazzed" to read it, so it can stay on the bottom of my stack for now...I am enjoying The Name of the Rose and think I'd be disappointed in DVC after reading Eco anyway.
Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in and gave up! I was g..."
I wasn't trying to compare Brown to Eco... I am really sorry if it sounded this way... just the religious discussions in the midst of a criminal plot...
Eco is far deeper than Brown and he debates farely rare questions of theology, not something overly discussed... I am happy that some of you enjoyed reading that type of discussions, but for me, they seemed endless and they made me want to put the book down... I too enjoy reading discussions on certain matters, but these just didn't cut it for me...
I think they are two different types of book. The Davinci Code was meant to be a thriller and whether we liked it or not Brown made a ton of money from the book and movie. So many people did like it. The name of the Rose is more of a historical mystery with a strong emphasis on historical written in a literary style.
Diana wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twenty pages in an..."
No worries. That's what makes it interesting on GR, we all have different tastes. I was telling a co-worker about The Name of the Rose and she said "oh, you're reading one of your weird books again." LOL
It would be boring, not to mention pointless if we all thought the same.All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]
Bernadette wrote: "Diana wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Code. I got about twe..."
Now my question: is it that the books you read are weird (whatever that means) or that she thinks all books are weird?
Ellie wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Diana wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Timothy wrote: "Hi Gundula,glad it wasn't just me, I couldn't read the Da Vinci Cod..."
She's very young and actually reads a lot, but only bestsellers and popular fiction. She just doesn't seem to "get it" when I am reading a classic or non-fiction or most anything else I read.
Oh I get it. "weird" is anything old-with my daughter, that would be published before January. This January.
Ellie wrote: "Oh I get it. "weird" is anything old-with my daughter, that would be published before January. This January."
Exactly!!
Bernadette wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Oh I get it. "weird" is anything old-with my daughter, that would be published before January. This January."
Exactly!!"
I would be ultra-weird then.
Well, join the club-my daughter just accepts that that's what I am.And I just accept that that's how she sees me. :D
Mod
I agree on this point.... and there are some mistakes in the narrative... like he doesn't quite remember how it was, but then all of a sudden all details appear in the book... I found few of such mistakes, but still... if we are going to be critical with the book.... :)
Maybe this helps make us see him as fallible, more believable because really if everything is told from his view it is colored anyway, his thoughts and feelings.
I think today is the day we are supposed to discuss the fact that it is Rick's birthday. Hope you're having a good one, Rick!
Happy Birthday Rick! Hope you are having a great day.
Happy Birthday Rick: you gave me the gift of this book - I wish I could offer you something a fraction of the fun I've had here!
Happy Birthday Rick! May your bookshelves never be empty!
Where are we supposed to be in this book now? I have completely lost track.
Diane wrote: "Where are we supposed to be in this book now? I have completely lost track."I'm not sure what we are supposed to be discussing now, and I've read ahead and don't want to give anything away
Mod
Here is the schedule
COMPLINE- 3/15-3/17- READ DISCUSS
3/18-3/19 WRAP-UP DISCUSSIONS PERTAINING TO DAY ONE
DAY TWO
3/20-3/22 - MATINS- READ DISCUSS
3/23-3/25 - PRIME- READ DISCUSS
3/26-3/29 - TERCE- READ DISCUSS
3/30-4/1 - SEXT- READ DISCUSS
4/1-4/3- NONES- READ DISCUSS
4/3- 4/4 - AFTER VESPERS - READ DISCUSS
4/4-4/6 COMPLINE-READ DISCUSS
4/6-4/9- NIGHT- READ-DISCUSS
4/10-4/11 WRAP-UP DISCUSSIONS PERTAINING TO DAY TWO
You are so well-organized! But I'm on track, good to know :)
Mod
thanks! actually- I should have posted the schedule a few days ago!!
Thanks Rick. I'm somehow actually in the right place.
Mod
I feel the story could have been told in about 1/3 of the pages- but I very much appreciated the immense research that went into Eco's writing. I noticed that creepy blind Monk reappeared and was just as wacked out as before- frowning on any kind of laughter- what a joy he must have been to know!- I do think that the asst. librarian will play a bigger role - as there are quite a few insuations about him and the dead Monk
Rick wrote: "after finishing Day One- I felt that I know far more than I did about the time period (perhaps too much!!)I feel the story could have been told in about 1/3 of the pages- but I very much apprecia..."
I liked this about the book too... I mean, William is "researching"a crime and you, as a reader, search with him... and you get so much insight into the behaviour of the monks and also descriptions that show what happens in their inner world too... But the person I suspected of the murder always changed for me in my mind, although I was quite sure who it was from the beginning and I was right in the end...
No spoilers! I am sorry if I hinted something out... :)
And I agree with Eco's writing... it is genius, even the quite long discussions, that were boring for me, are written with much knowledge on the subject and as entertaining as they could be....
If you read Eco's non-fiction, all that semiotic theory, it's amazing he could write this book at all, let alone as readable as it is!
Mod
Think the blind monk is extremely spooky, all fire and brimstone, a real religious zealot. It is interesting that their is such a division in the different monks thinking, with the drawings and humor even though they all belong to the same order and all work in the scriptorium. All in all except for the 2nd section, which was onerours in the decriptions, I rather enjoyed the rest, think they helped us feel that we were back in that time period. Amazing all they did with herbs, and all the ways there are to kill someone in the monastery.
Rick wrote: "is it just me- or is the Blind Monk Jorge very strange and scary?"Eh, the blind monk is all talk and no action. It is the librarian who is scary.
They all seem to be carrying around a bunch of secrets. I am somewhat surprised about the herbalist being a monk. I had read in a few books, that that skill could be considered the work of the devil or a type of witchcraft.
The character descriptions are great... but they live that ounce of mystery, so that you don't get bored with them... Jorge is indeed a scary character, but I think that he represents the radical group of the church, all prayer and work, no fun at all... But my personal favourite in the book is Adso... I think that him, being a teenager, is the character that you can empathise the easiest with :)
Re herbalists who are monks--Many monasteries had herb gardens and herbalists. Monasteries were expected to be self-sufficient. Being an herbalist was only witchcraft if it was a woman. The female herbalist usually engaged in non-Christian folk practices. The monastery herbalists didn't. There is a mystery series about a monastery herbalist called Brother Cadfael by Ellis Peters. It's an excellent series. It starts with A Morbid Taste for Bones
Mod
Jorge does represent a not-uncommon type of medieval catholic. An extremist, true, but a type nevertheless. All laughter, all joy is sin. Women are inherently evil & Eve takes the whole brunt of the fall, with Adam a passive man duped by another (well, the first) conniving woman. But all women are evil-there was even a famous tract (the name of which of course I've forgotten) detailing all the ways in which women are either a) evil or b) the cause of all evil.You'll see even into the Renaissance all those paintings with a skull on the desk. Men were supposed to keep death in the forefront of their mind at all times & act accordingly. Accordingly not, surprisingly perhaps, "Eat, drink, & be merry", but "Repent of your sins at all times-any hour may be the one at which you called to account."
Not a lifestyle that promotes much merriment!
I think this was a fairly common type back then, that's why the Spanish Inquisition took hold so strongly. That's why Brother William is so special for that time period and I agree I like Adso also, he is just watching and noting the differences but I don't think his character is fully formed yet because he is still so young. I did enjoy all the talks of herbalists and scriptors.To be honest I am liking this book much more than I thought I would.
Exactly. He's almost unbelievably modern. 200 years later you get Montaigne & Thomas More but no one that I can think of back in the 1300s. But he's so convincingly written & one wants to believe that there were rational & decent people at that time.Does anyone know of anyone from that time period who was a humanist (using the word, I realize, anachronistically)? One problem in the Middle Ages of course is that their emphasis on anonymity (all-for -the-glory-of-God approach) makes it difficult historically for anyone not ruling (kingdoms of God or men) or famous warring.
But still... any other William types back then that we know of?
The humanist movement actually started in the 1300's and this movement called for an increase in the study of manuscripts. Followers would often travel from monastery to monastery studying manuscripts to come up with the most accurate renderings from all the writings I think Petrarch was the only known humanist from this time period. But the study of manuscipts as an aid to this movement fits in with our storyline as well as the struggle of the old gaurds protectiveness to the old writings in opposition of the new which wanted to come up with their own interpretations.
Mod
Ellie wrote: "Exactly. He's almost unbelievably modern. 200 years later you get Montaigne & Thomas More but no one that I can think of back in the 1300s. But he's so convincingly written & one wants to believe ..."
really insightful comments and info!! thanks both of you!
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THE JAMES MASON COMMUNITY BOOK CLUB
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Great point Diane, I'm sure Eco doesn't use unnecessary details, though I think a lot of other contemporary authors do...I've read a little ahead and some of the details do matter as the mystery rolls along. I am really enjoying the book now, into the Third Day, and am reading it faster than I had planned.