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SERIES—List & Discussions > Wars of Light & Shadow--Peril's Gate - ch X, XI, XII - SPOILERS!

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message 1: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Ahh, the long awaited moment - comeuppance for the Koriani Prime - what DO you think of Davien? Jieret's transcendence? Braggen's stand?


message 2: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments I was tickled to death when Selidie/Morriel got her comeuppance from Davien. He is quite the slick devil, isn't he? I mean, it's awful she burned her hands, but on the other hand (no pun intended) she got what she deserved, didn't she?

I love Davien, Betrayer or not. I think he has tricks up his sleeve. I think he's on the same side as the Fellowship. He just wants to get there on his own and without the constraints of the others.

Jieret's transcendence breaks my heart every time I read it. Braggen is the man. I'm glad he survived. I was really afraid he wouldn't.


message 3: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments I wonder that Lysaer's men don't grumble or have qualms about their fellow soldiers being burned to a crisp by their own avatar.


message 4: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I wonder that Lysaer's men don't grumble or have qualms about their fellow soldiers being burned to a crisp by their own avatar."

Didn't the Ettaran army show up after the immolation of the Alliance troops by Lysaer? The only 'eye witness' would have been Sulfend, right?


message 5: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Jon wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I wonder that Lysaer's men don't grumble or have qualms about their fellow soldiers being burned to a crisp by their own avatar."

Didn't the Ettaran army show up after the ..."


Good god. I lost track of that detail this time through. But still! What about the mess with the ships back in -where was it?- Riverton? And won't the Etarrans wonder where the rest of the soldiers are? One could hope that grumbling in the ranks might emerge at some point after one of Lysaer's little temper tantrums.


message 6: by orannia (new)

orannia Davien is up to more I think that we know about yet - I've still got ~75 pages of these three chapter sets left to read - but...he doesn't seem like someone who wouldn't have a reason for the things he does. Noe of the Fellowship do. That said, I REALLY want to be a fly on the wall when he explains the 'why' of the rebellion.

Sandra - I think I mentioned somewhere else that Lysaer seems to blame everything on 'dark sorcery', yet he was the one that immolated the ships at Minderel Bay and his armed forces in Daon Ramon Barrens. And everyone seems to accept that. I'm just waiting for Sulfin to question these 'pearls of wisdom'.


message 7: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments orannia wrote: "Davien is up to more I think that we know about yet - I've still got ~75 pages of these three chapter sets left to read - but...he doesn't seem like someone who wouldn't have a reason for the thing..."

Yep, yep, yep, Davien is up to a lot more.

And there is hope for Sulfin Evend, I think....


message 8: by orannia (new)

orannia OK, I finished this chapter set this morning (yes, still behind :) I'm confused though. Up until this point I was assuming that Morriel wasn't an idiot. Now...I'm not so sure. She has to be aware of the grimwards, so why did she think that disrupting the lanes was a good idea? Did she somehow think that she would be exempt from the backlash if the grimwards fell? Or if the wraiths at Rockfell peak escaped? Was she just planning to go through one of the World's End Gates or did she think neither of those events would happen but the Compact would be broken? And in the event that neither the Grimwards fell or the wraiths escaped but the Compact was broken, did she really think she would be exempt the consequences of the broken Compact? So I come back to my original question...

Honestly, I think Morriel needs to be given the same choice the others were given (those who chose not to stay on Athera) - accept the terms of the Compact or leave? Then again...keeping an eye on the enemy is often a better option than letting them plot in hiding!


message 9: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments orannia wrote: "OK, I finished this chapter set this morning (yes, still behind :) I'm confused though. Up until this point I was assuming that Morriel wasn't an idiot. Now...I'm not so sure. She has to be aware o..."

I thought the very same thing, Orannia. Stoopidd woman! I mentioned it somewhere - must've been in the discussion in the FBC Series group.


message 10: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments orannia wrote: "OK, I finished this chapter set this morning (yes, still behind :) I'm confused though. Up until this point I was assuming that Morriel wasn't an idiot. Now...I'm not so sure. She has to be aware o..."

Your clue (to straighten out the confusion) lies in the proscribed knowledge, held by ONLY the Prime - puzzle out the Matriarch's moral high ground, all of her choices make sense...

The story will, of course, take you there, although the clues have been placed.


message 11: by Jon (last edited Feb 04, 2011 08:15AM) (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Janny wrote: "orannia wrote: "OK, I finished this chapter set this morning (yes, still behind :) I'm confused though. Up until this point I was assuming that Morriel wasn't an idiot. Now...I'm not so sure. She h..."

I wonder if it's because the Prime knows who Sethvir (and the other Fellowship Sorcerers) really are (view spoiler)?

Although that still wouldn't explain why the Prime would deliberately attempt to break the Compact(view spoiler)


message 12: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "orannia wrote: "OK, I finished this chapter set this morning (yes, still behind :) I'm confused though. Up until this point I was assuming that Morriel wasn't an idiot. Now...I'm not ..."

Destruction of Athera: there are earlier hints that the Prime holds resources. Some of the 'window dressing' (har!) found in Ships of Merior might shift the angle of view quite a bit. No worries; such themes will surface again.

Question to the group:

Do you think the Prime knows who the Sorcerers are?


message 13: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new)

Kathi | 3315 comments Mod
Just a few late comments--I loved the scene when the Paravian centaur came to Lysaer's camp in response to Jieret's plea. Lysaer had the plain truth laid out in front of him, but he could not bend. That was truly heart-breaking, not just for Lysaer, but for the future.

Lots of powerful scenes in this chapter set. Selidie probably got what she deserved, but poor Lirenda, enslaved to her side! Braggen was the epitomy of the brave and loyal Companion in his stand against the headhunters, and I'm so glad he didn't die. I feared he might.

But Jieret's death was also heart-breaking. I though maybe, with his mage-sight awakened, he would somehow be able to be discorporate (although that would be quite a stretch for someone whose powers were only recently roused!).

Lysaer's was able to overcome to impact of the centaur's visit, a reminder of the potency of his royal presence and his ability to mold and influence his followers.

I'm wondering if the Prime assumed the Fellowship would be able to maintain the grimwards (and thus hold back total destruction), but they would be completely occupied doing so. That would allow the Koriani to somehow enable enough other changes. After all, Lysaer's now stated goal is to bring about the ascendency of mankind on Athera, which matches (at least somewhat) the Prime's goal.


message 14: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Kathi, I love your thoughts.

Kathi said: Lysaer's was able to overcome to impact of the centaur's visit, a reminder of the potency of his royal presence and his ability to mold and influence his followers.

This is putting the best possible light on it, as I wanted to beat him about the head and shoulders! But a good interpretation!

And the Prime's attack on the planet? I've not been able to figure that out yet. What if she figured wrong and the F7 can't hold back the grimwards? But you're right about hers and Lysaer's goals matching.


message 15: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new)

Kathi | 3315 comments Mod
Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Kathi, I love your thoughts.

And the Prime's attack on the planet? I've not been able to figure that out yet."


Thanks, Sandra.
Having now read the next chapter set, I have a little different view of the Koriani Prime's plan. Maybe Morriel/Selidie don't know as much as I thought about Athera's history...


message 16: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2354 comments Mod
One scene I loved hasn't been mentioned yet - when Kharadmon joins with Dakar and Dakar experiences firsthand the depth of emotion that Kharadmon feels for him. That realization that the members of the fellowship truly do love, and not just tolerate him, despite his flaws.


message 17: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Shel wrote: "One scene I loved hasn't been mentioned yet - when Kharadmon joins with Dakar and Dakar experiences firsthand the depth of emotion that Kharadmon feels for him. That realization that the members of..."

Oh yes. That's a really nice one.


message 18: by Kerry (new)

Kerry (rocalisa) | 487 comments It's been a long time coming, but I've finished another group of chapter sets.

Lots of things happened here, but for all the greatness mentioned above, the bit that touched me the most was the descrition of Rockfell as Dakar sees it with his senses expanded. It was beautiful and the way it tied the earth all together was amazing.

In a way, I feel quite sorry for both Lysaer and Lirenda (when they aren't being total prats and doing heinous things). They have both become totally trapped by their faults. Lirenda is the more obviously trapped (and yet, when she clearly did it to herself, she still blames Arithon?), but Lysaer is too. Each time he's given a chance at redemption, he denies it and makes things worse.

And yet, I can kind of see his point. If what he believes is true (and we know it isn't, but he doesn't), then he is indeed standing against temptation by standing against the centaur. He has to take a step of faith that he might be mistaken, and he can't.

Then, of course, they both go and do the next horrible thing and my sympathy disappears until the next time Janny very cleverly renews it.

Davien is very interesting. I certainly agree with everyone else that he has a plan and know exactly what he's doing. The frustrating part is that we don't.

I don't think Morriel really understands what she's meddling with. She may have no idea of what she's done to the lanes and the grimwards. All she sees is a chance to pursue her own agenda and takes it. She thought she'd tie up the Sorcerers (and she did), but she probably didn't think beyond her own ends and therefore doesn't realise how dire the consequences might be. Her kind of power is totally different (antithetical?) to the compact of permission and integration with the world. It's about enforcing her chosen order on the power and the world because, from her point of view, she's better than them and has an innate right to do so. So she's only thinking about what she can enforce on the world, not all the interconnctions and therefore consequences that the Sorcerers are concerned with. It is disturbing to recognise that her point of view is very close to that of our modern world. It would be nice to think we see things like the Sorcerers, but human beings treat the earth much more like Morriel does Athera.

Jieret's death (and what went before then) was heartbreaking, but at the same time it felt right. I didn't like it, but it felt right within the story.

Okay, my son is demanding my attention, so I'll post this and see if anyone has any comments to make.


message 19: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Well, as usual, Kerry, I think you're right on. I think Morriel/Selidie is insane with some form of megalomania.

The best is yet to come here. This book is so chock full of intensity!


message 20: by orannia (new)

orannia Great insights Kerry! It's bringing it all back...


message 21: by Alissa (new)

Alissa | 171 comments Still reading through ch XII so I skimmed the posts a little, but so many impressions!
There is no respite for the characters nor the reader, the story gets more intense by the page if that were possible.
Selidie, who is a favorite of mine, really got her comeuppance, it was totally fun to see how her arrogance blindsided her (well, given her recent triumphs I cannot blame her) and Davien efficiently set the snare through Elaira and turned a prank into serious damage anticipating her moves. I guess I like him already.
The dialogue between Sulfin and Lysaer, this latter seems untroubled to let Sulfin into his confidence, I wonder... And the part about the clan lineages, now I can see why Mearn refused Talith. Does this mean the s'Brydion have undiluted mage-talent?? And the connection with the Par-avians, is it blood-related then? The rite of exposure to the living presence of the Paravian, and the braid sported by the centaur make me wonder. I'm very very curious :)
I think Lysaer really believes he has no choice but to pursue the destruction of Arithon and the Sorcerers at all costs. He sounds so sincere. I'm not sure I can dislike him.

Now, about Davien. He's discorporate, but leaves prints in the snow. Selidie believes a discorporate entity could now have evaded her trap, he can shapeshift into an eagle. He enters a Bortherhood hostel with no brows lifted on any part (especially not his), he speaks of his business as Fellowship business, he seems to adhere to the law of major balance. Bloodmagic lured him out of exile.
He summons Traithe's raven. I guess it was his doing as well in ch VI (at least Thraite says "you have been summoned, little brother? Then fly with my blessing, and pass on my news to Sethvir..." (the Sethvir bit totally fooled me)). And the emphasis on the "brother" for the raven...?
As this sentence "then surveyed the campsite, first through his right eye, then through his left, his avid analysis a clear indication the changed viewpoint carried significance". There's something similar about Thraite's raven ("the bird regarded him, first with the left eye, then swiveled her head in fixed gaze with the unwinking right"), but no clue whatsoever!

And Jieret able to summon the paravian spirit of a centaur with a braid exactly like his? i was stunned at his courage, how he didn't shatter when his lifetime certainties were shaken by the new awareness. The scenes are heartbreaking indeed.

Another part full of intensity is Braggen's. His thoughts, after Jieret mage-enhanced ones, gave me a sense of completeness, the action against the headhunters swordsmen was also superb and gripping. I hope he doesn't die anyway, I held hope for Jieret too, but by the end, I was relieved when he was killed.
I can't wait to read more. Every page makes the story turn and shift and it's totally consistent, emotion-packed and fast-paced.


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