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Ulysses - Episode 4 - Calypso
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Ally
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Jan 23, 2011 11:54AM
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Ulyssesby James Joyce
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From the Evanston, IL Public Library reading of UlyssesWhat are your first impressions of Bloom? Molly?
How would you characterize the relationship between Bloom and Molly?
Where does Milly fit into the family dynamic? How does Rudy’s death continue to affect the family?
Courtesy of the Evanston, IL Public Library reading of Ulysses.There were some general questions to keep in mind regarding episodes 4 through 8
1. How do Stephen and Bloom mirror each other?
2. How does Bloom differ from the Homeric stereotype?
3. How is the novel’s father-son theme explored?
4. Consider how death, sex, and feasting influence Bloom.
5. Why does Bloom tolerate Molly's many affairs?
6. How is Bloom an outsider? At work? At home? As a Jewish man?
7. The world seems to see Bloom as Jewish; he seems to see himself as Irish. What was Joyce’s point?
8. Consider the symbolism of each episode title.
9. What portions of the text did you find especially confusing? Interesting?
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Ally
Bloom must be one of the most intriguing, engaging, and fully human people in literature. He has an everydayness about him, a sensuality in touch with life. He is in the moment. In these respects he is the opposite of Stephen, and in fact just what Stephen needs to recover himself. There is the potato which migrates during the book all over Bloom's clothing, there is the comfortable cat with it's famous mrkrgnao -- nothing here is perfunctory, not even a cat's voice. It is clear he is unconditionally in love with Molly (as she with him as we will see). He is aware of the feelings of everyone he encounters -- the unspoken agreement with the butcher not to parade their Jewishness tells a great deal. With this chapter one sinks into the book as in a warm bath.
agh, vague 'literature type' questions :( They make me nervous and sad. Bloom/Dedalus:
1. Naming -- nature VS artificer. Bloom associated with cat, etc. Stephen with literature.
2. Hamlet reference // odsessy reference. 'The father consubstantial with the son.' Complications set in for 'mirroring'. Hamlet's 'madness' VS Stephen's 'madness'. Hamlet's issue with his mom // Stephen's issue with his mom. Bloom's eating ref. Cyclops eating (I think, I'm a bit rusty on Joyce by now). -- Father/son relationship -- very complicated. Ireland as mother, c.f. Stephen 'ireland is an old sow that eats her farrow'
3. I think Joyce was trying to redefine love. It is telling you say it is 'unconditional' (which means love is conditional, generally?). Uly was banned for obscenity for some time.
Speaking generally of course. I haven't had the time to re-read Calypso, but I've read the whole book. So it's tough because I know some of you haven't -- and I daren't mention details later on :P lest I spoil the fun!
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oh dear! - please don't feel that you have to engage with the questions. Some people like them and some people don't - it's perfectly fine to just give your opinion on each chapter without referring to the discussion topics. The last thing I want to do is discourage comments!
I must admit though that I'd be rather lost without those little questions and am personally very grateful to the Evanston, IL Public Library!
Ally
Well, yes, lots of love is conditional. On fidelty, for example, which is the crux for Bloom. Bloom himself has lots of foibles and failings. But they are comfortable with themselves. The book is wonderfully accepting and affirmative. Notice that between Stephen and his mother love is conditional -- on religion and observance. The contrast is stark. This is what Bloom offers to Stephen, the unconditional love of father and son. It makes the Odyssey seem like a sketch, and I believe implicitly condemns the violence, retribution and revenge, devices and guile of the Greek tale.
As regards the Jewish/Irish identity, and Bloom's outsider status. I simply can't take any of this seriously. It's a fact that both identities put one at the time outside somewhere, but Bloom is within the Irish society whereas the whole Jewish society is outside everywhere. Bloom is no more set apart than Odysseus was. The Jews are never seen at this time as belonging, so naturally the Irish would focus on that. All this is simply a fact, like a potato. I don't find any great significance in it, any more than the Jewish acceptance/Catholic angst pairing.
Charles wrote: "Well, yes, lots of love is conditional. On fidelty, for example, which is the crux for Bloom. Bloom himself has lots of foibles and failings. But they are comfortable with themselves. The book is w..."ah, it's interesting! which edition of Uly are you reading? Depending on which version you have -- Stephen asks 'what is the word known to all men?' thrice. In the first edition there is no answer. Later somehow or other someone ran through Joyce's stuff, and included the answer, and the answer is 'love'. Then other scholars got angry, saying it wasn't supposed to be in the text, so it got taken out in later editions again! And in Circe Stephen demands the answer from his mother (the last time it is mentioned I think), but gets no answer. For all his intelligence, Stephen can be incredibly dense (and I think this is part of Joyce's point)
Lorraine wrote: "Charles wrote: "Well, yes, lots of love is conditional. On fidelty, for example, which is the crux for Bloom. Bloom himself has lots of foibles and failings. But they are comfortable with themselve..."Yes, Bloom's intelligence is of the body (the heart, as we say) whereas Stephen's is not very noticing at times. My edition in the 1961 Vintage $2.95 one, from before the editorial hoopla you mention. (The Gabler edition.) The second Gabler is the one to have if you care about typos and ms. readings. Most of the simple typos were corrected in my Vintage.
Charles wrote: "As regards the Jewish/Irish identity, and Bloom's outsider status. I simply can't take any of this seriously. It's a fact that both identities put one at the time outside somewhere, but Bloom is wi..."Interesting you see Jews as outsiders, everywhere. I don't think your view is that widespread or perhaps it is in America. There have been Jews in Eire for a thousand years. "Ireland has claims on your ancient race, it is the only country that I know of unsullied by any one act of persecution of the Jews" was said in the Irish Parliament in the 1800 and something or other when a politican was campaigning for Catholic and Jewish emancipation. I remember the quote but not who said it, sorry. In Joyce's time there was the pogrom of Limerick, the only anti-semitic act in Irish history. People were horrified and elected a Jewish man as mayor of Cork.
Jews generally don't see themselves as Jewish, any more than Christians identify first as Christians, they identify as their nationality first and their religion second.
I finished the book a few weeks ago. I wrote a review but did not cover any intellectual points as I a) gave the book up and b) am not intellectual enough.
Petra X wrote: "Charles wrote: "As regards the Jewish/Irish identity, and Bloom's outsider status. I simply can't take any of this seriously. It's a fact that both identities put one at the time outside somewhere,..."Heavens! I hope what I said is not regarded as my attitude, or a contemporary one. I was trying to speak of what I knew of the situation at the time. Perhaps my history is faulty. Incidentally, I must differ with the claim that Christians identify with their nationality first. I have met many Christians in the US for whom that is not true. Elsewhere in the world it is, I suppose, different.
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(I'm slowly catching up!)
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How does he compare to Stephen? not sure I'm equipped to answer this just yet but I'd say that there are some oppositions at play. Whereas bloom seems to be physically driven and is quite practical Stephen is more thoughtful 'in his head' a little more depressive compared to Bloom's more pragmatic attention to the details and enjoyments of life. In addition stephen does not seem sexually motivated in any way.
Ally wrote: "My first impressions of Bloom are that he is likable but a bit of a cuckold. He seems to let things wash over him and is less serious perhaps than stephen dedalus. He's very attentive and loving to..."For me, the relationships between Bloom/Molly and Bloom/Stephen are the heart of the book. Molly is an anchor point for Bloom, and that she genuinely loves him becomes clear in the last part. There are some wrinkles here -- Bloom is not exactly impotent but is sufficiently out of whack to justify in both their minds Molly's dalliance with Boylan. Bloom is marvelously sensuous and canny -- just the sort of father the unanchored Stephen is looking for -- tethered to the world, not to fly too near the sun.
I will not blather on as I have to go make dinner which will not be kidneys.
