Brain Science Podcast discussion

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message 1: by Virginia (new)

Virginia MD (gingercampbell) | 321 comments Mod
Welcome to the Brain Science Podcast on

This Group will be replacing our old Discussion Forum. We will be focusing on books about the brain, psychology, and neuroscience.

message 2: by James (new)

James Ling (openyoureyes312) | 3 comments I need to speak with Jeff Hawkins. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! hopefully someone reads this. I'm not quite sure how to type it, I usually just talk and people listen. I'm not a scientist but I am an avid theorist. I look at the big picture. SO lets take a step back and look at the big pictures of our body, and lets explain evolution on a scale that we can actually watch from generation to generation.

We know what muscle memory is, muscle memory is your body adapting to become more proficient at a task the more you do it. It becomes second nature. the term I like to use for this is "Knowing" how to do something, Knowledge is something that you have acquired that you KNOW. Not just information that you can remember. But you know, like tell me how to talk? you can tell me what the body does when we talk, but you probably couldn't tell me "how" to do it. So you have the knowledge of how to talk, but you don't have an understanding. Information you can understand, but Knowledge can only be gained by doing! This is muscle memory, your body, actually your MIND knowing how to best handle the situation because you're done it so many times before that it becomes natural.

Okay moving on, The next little nugget of information I need you to understand, is that muscle memory is genetic, A professional athletes child will be more apt to become a "natural" at that sport. My belief is because the muscle memory is passed down from generation to generation. So then muscle memory would pretty much be evolution in action. Not freak mutations that we cling to, but rather ways that we used a trait and continued to build upon it generation after generation, because each new generation can master what their parents knew and did at a younger age than the parents, they then can take it further so that their children will be able to take it farther than they have, and so on and so forth.

If that's the case, then where is this muscle memory stored? this Knowledge as I like to call it. It must be stored in the DNA, I believe that DNA is basically the hard drive of our beings, and the mind is the motherboard that reads and writes to it. The 95% "junk" DNA I believe is where all this Knowledge is stored and passed down.

Alright now for the part that REALLY gets me excited.

Is the mind not a muscle in and of itself? So the mind has complete control over the body and records into the DNA what it learns through doing. How would that principal apply to the mind controlling itself? Thought and Decision. Decision is the "doing" of the mind. That is why it is so hard to break habits and create new ones. Because just like if you are a right handed batter in baseball, trying to swing lefty will be difficult until you train your body to do it. So what if the predisposition to always make the similar choice is part of who you are based on the information your mind has encoded into your DNA. It follows the same thought process all the time because you always CHOOSE to follow that thought process and so you record that muscle memory and it becomes easier and easier to decide that way. Like Jesus said, as above so below. What ever you decide in your mind you want to be, and you choose to act on it, and eventually you will become that, because your mind will eventually recognize the pattern just like it does with how to throw a ball, and how to catch, or ride a bike, all these things. It works the same for your mind.

Your mind decides, that is the action of your mind. I read somewhere that your decision was made before you were ever even presented with the decision and before i put it into context that was a scary thought. How can I make a decision without knowing all the variables. and in this context it explains, that basically choice is your pattern of analyzing the situation and taking in the variables and creating your answer. so if you decide with the same logic, you will always use that same logic, unless you CHOOSE to make the different choice, but just like everything else in the world, we do what we know, and I believe thats because what we "know" has been recorded as "muscle memory" on that 95% DNA that we classify as JUNK. How many tims have any of us thought at all that " I should do this right now" only to find yourself putting it off to procrastinate on something else.

Okay more fun stuff.

I think that "love" is the magnification of, hmm how to say this, maybe the desire to make sure the human race lives on. I forgot what its called, but basically its the grown up version of putting the well being of the species above your own well being. because if you Love, you put that person before yourself. So take all of this and put it all together.

The conclusion I came to was very powerful to me and I NEED to talk to people who can validate or dismiss this ginger. Put me in touch with the right people, because this is just a summary.

message 3: by James (new)

James Ling (openyoureyes312) | 3 comments so basically what Im saying is we are in complete control of our own destiny and our evolution. It all comes down to EVERY choice we make though. because those individual choices or rather the pattern of always deciding the same way. In my eyes so far its usually a greedy self serving way. Look at the start of this world its all about me me me, my family, my business, my vote, everything is me. It needs to change to a WE! we need to embrace the principal of love. Loving everyone. and if im right the only thing it will ever take for that to work is everyone CHOOSING to do it. and It will be recorded in our DNA and then just like this greed has become natural and grown to such extremes so will the choice to look out for others before ourselves. I have a dream, a vision of a world, where yopu never have to worry about yourself because our human nature is to ALL look out for each other. I mean think about it, we all WANT the same things from life. The details of those things are different, but the principals behind them are the same, a good family, a safe home, a good education, safety. All these things are far easier to achieve if you have a world full of people working together rather than a world of people competing because its fueled by greed.

All we have to do is CHOOSE to live like this and I think we will learn this is the RIGHT way and will learn it and embrace it even faster. Because we understand all of this is right. we teach this information to our kids. but kids learn from example so even though everyone understands the information is correct, no one chooses to act on it. I believe that if we start acting on it we will transition to KNOWING it. because you can only KNOW from deciding to do it and following through, then it starts becoming a part of you after awhile. But if we keep living the examples of greed and individualism then we are just building upon what we have always done and we will never change, no matter how much information we remember and understand. Cause you cant KNOW it till you do it.

message 4: by David (new)

David Mcdivitt | 65 comments One point, muscle memory is not genetic. Offspring may have similar physiology, will therefore be inclined to do things because of that physiology, and the mind follows suit working through the body to do those things.

What you are is a dynamic which comes to point in any given moment, representing your entire life history. The only thing in control is evolution as one moment evolves into the next.

I don't agree with much of what you said, but I want you to know I did read it.

message 5: by James (new)

James Ling (openyoureyes312) | 3 comments David what im saying is it has never been thought of as genetic before, maybe that is the first step in how genetics work. Because the mind controlos absolutely everything in the body. EVERYTHING. We know that, so you may be getting hung up on certain details or words that I might have used inefficiently to prove my point, but what Im saying is basically that muscle memory is natural seletion. What we choose to use gets past on to the next generation. and I believe it not only applies to how we use our bodies but how we think as well. how you decide to live your life would be passed down the same way because the brain is in control of everything.

message 6: by David (new)

David Mcdivitt | 65 comments The mind does not control everything in the body as you say but works with the body as a whole organism. If I have an itch and scratch it, the itch is in control, or the bug that bit me. Even if I override the need to scratch I still feel the itch, so the mind is still changed by the body.

Delete muscle memory and say the rest of it. Muscle memory seems significant to you for some reason, but has nothing to do with other things you are talking about.

It's good to talk about action and think in terms of action, but this has to do with evolution and we tend to change in light of actions we do, over the long term, as a species.

Self is a good thing to talk about. The idea of self is supported in both neuroscience and psychology. If you rephrase your verbiage about control in terms of self instead, it might be more readable.

message 7: by Matt Amberson (new)

Matt Amberson | 1 comments I need some help finding a reference.
I read about an oral implant device that helped patients with balance issues. The implant was essentially a gyro that emitted 'champagne bubble' like feedback when the patient leaned one way or another. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

message 8: by Christian (last edited Nov 14, 2012 05:47AM) (new)

Christian Gallego (christiantzm) | 11 comments I think this video is what you're looking for. It's about Paul Bach-y-Rita and his work. The 2nd half of this video discusses Cheryl Schiltz and the device you're asking about, as well as the company working on it now that Paul has passed:

Welcome, Matt! :)


message 9: by Murray (last edited Nov 17, 2012 09:30PM) (new)

Murray Crowe (murraybiscuit) | 1 comments nice catch christian. what a great vid. this really brings the concept of neuroplasticity home in an easily digestible format.

message 10: by Virginia (new)

Virginia MD (gingercampbell) | 321 comments Mod
Matt wrote: "I need some help finding a reference.
I read about an oral implant device that helped patients with balance issues. The implant was essentially a gyro that emitted 'champagne bubble' like feedback..."

This was also discussed by Norman Doidge in his book The Brain That Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph from the Frontiers of Brain Science. Dr. Doidge was interviewed in BSP 26.

But since the original work was by Paul Bach-y-rita (as noted by Christian) you might Google his name. Also, as I recall people with this condition are called "Wobblers" so you might Google the combo.

message 11: by Virginia (new)

Virginia MD (gingercampbell) | 321 comments Mod
I am closing this thread since it was intended to be only an introduction to this Discussion Forum. It is my fault for not locking it to begin with.

If you want to start a new topic or continue the conversations started above I recommend starting a new thread either in the area called Introduce Yourself or in the Off Topic Folder.

Unfortunately, the Goodreads website is designed for discussing books so its less easy to organize other discussions.

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